I was at Roebling this last week end and met some great people from Florida. I am a little concerned to find out that the one thing that ALL of them (the ones I spoke with) had to say about the Florida CCS region is that they won't race there anymore because of the way the events are run. ALL of them said that they did not agree with one day of racing 18 or 19 classes/races. I must say I have had some concerns about this as well. I am starting this thread not to get a flame fest going but to find out what can be done to change or not change the way the Florida region is managed. Henry I know you'll probably take offense at this but all the folks I talked to did not care for you. I have had some discussions with you and voiced my concernes to you and you have replied with intelligent replies. But I live and want to race in Florida. I like most of the tracks there and the people are great but this decention of a large group of good and seasoned riders seems to me to be a problem. This is only my second year racing and I certainly don't know all or even a large part of the history of how things have come to the point where they are now but I am not one to be involved in an organization where there are problems and those problems/concerns not be discussed in an open forum. So I am asking my fellow CCS Florida riders to come forward and let us all know what is your opinion. I am truely trying to do this to bring a more favorable attitude and respect for one another to the general group. Thanks in advance for your input. #223
my question to you is why are you complaining if you have not run this program?
the main reason it is run this way is only because the florida riders who run the florida region and attend the riders meetings voted to run the program this way .
6-7 sesions 20 min long on sat. makes for a full day of practice and give's you ample trime to dial your bike in. alot of riders work on sat. and did not feel they shouyld miss there chance to win cash money$$$$ in gto /gtu races.
sunday races go well, it has only been this way for a few years, we did run the other for most of the 11-or 12 years I have been racing.
6laps sprints are easier on your tires, so I do not use a set in the gto/gtu races then another for a few sprints.
I love racing florida, southeast , wera all of them have there on quirks. but that's racing . if ytou want to complain about something get them to have more multi region rounds so there is more competition at the races.
patrick weekley #68
Dear Allen
Allen
Well I must say that I'm a little concerned about you. Especially when you spoke of all the Florida riders at Roebling this past weekend that were so upset with the way I run the races in Fl. I want you to just think about the following. First of all WERA was racing at NFMP and had a total of 149 entries! CCS SE and "all the Fl. riders" were at Roebling with a "whopping" 200 entries! While we ran Moroso and had 459 entries! That's more than both of the other events combined! That tells me that you and the other "concerned Fl. riders" are exactly where you belong, in a minority. I have said it before and say it again. I will never make all the riders happy, all the time but I will do my best to make the majority happy. And the numbers prove it over and over again. It's good to know that you and your "great group of Fl. riders" with all your "vast experience" are concerned with the way I manage the CCS Fl. region. They "don't like me" and "won't race with us" because of the way we run them. To that I say, great! The decention among the large group that you speek of is BS. I suggest that other regions run the same program as we do and maybe they might have the success that we do. You and your great friends have no idea what it takes to run events at places like Homestead, Moroso or anywhere else. I will not waste my time to try to educate you and your "large group of good and seasoned riders " about organizing and running a race series. Especially with your knowledge of Roebling. So in closing, my attitude towards this "great group of people from Florida" is they can "stick it". Stay where you are, neither I or the majority of the Fl. riders want them at our events. Those are the facts!
Henry
Hey Henry. Just wanted to say HI!!!!!!!!! Hope all is well. Keep up the good work down there.
Stacey
if that is good business sense, then you have no business sense. all day i get flack from customers, and they always come back the next day. henry, i don't know you from adam's housecat, but i'd say you are either an idiot, or a jerk. you might say, i'm sorry you aren't pleased, but give it a try. we try to please the majority etc. etc. not "screw you we don't want you and those guys anyway!" frankly i get sick of the org. who forget that racers are customers and think they are here doing a favor. you are making money and your tone is insulting.
Is it just me or is the heat getting to everyone? :-[
What I sense with Henry's response is frustration and sometimes you just have to let it out. We do not race in the Florida region but in the Midwest region. Our races are over Saturday and Sunday, and even with this schedule someone is not happy with it (the races should be in a different order, why are these races on this day and not on the other... etc).
What surprised me in actiontek's post is that "ALL" did not care for the schedule and "ALL" did not care for Henry. My thought is if that was the case, wouldn't it have changed by now?
Dawn
I gues you guys just didn't read my post. I told you that I am not flaming anyone or anything. I have run this program and I have run the SE program. All I said is that I spoke with a lot of Florida guys that have concerns and I would like to know more. So you guys take it anyway you want to. I am just asking. I also said that I haven't been into this long but there must be something up to get you so upset. Instead of having an intelligent discussion why so many are upset you just want to kill the messanger. What's up with that? When there is such decention why not find out what the problem is rather than ignoring it. I'm just talking out loud what so many are saying privately. If you think this is complaining you need to check your own ego. Henry if you read my post I said all the riders I spoke with, there are alot I didn't speak with. Read the post. Also it is not for you to decide where I belong unless you have that option and I'm not aware of it. I'm just trying to find out what's the deal. Lastly when I said ALL I also said of the folks I spoke to. I'm trying to get some discussion going but I see that's not an option here.
Actiontek:
If there are many riders feeling this way, perhaps it should have been brought up at a riders meeting. It was said that you did not want to start a flame fest, but when the word "ALL" (in capital letter's no less) is used over and over again, that is exactly what happens.
Perhaps a better way of starting the thread would have been: Florida Riders - What do you think of the current racing format?
Dawn
When I used the word all and capitolized it, it was because I was astonished that all (ALL) the people I spoke with had the same comments. If that is misconstrude as an inflamatory remark, it was not meant to be on my part. AGAIN I AM JUST TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON. I did not go looking for these guys starting this discussion. I asked why they were there rather than Moroso. I was at Roebling because I really like the track and the people I've met there as well as the camping. My family likes the place as well. I'll say it one more time "I am not saying that the way things are being ran in Floirida are wrong; I would just like to find out why the poeple I spoke with think so and if there is any credence/basis to their opinions." I have not and will not condem things I know little about. But I am concerned and curious.
Fair enough..... ;)
As someone who will be racing next season for the first time, I like the idea of having practice all day Saturday, and there will be some Saturday's that I can't get off work. However, I just hope all of the anger and harsh words passed around on these boards stays here and doesn't make it's way to the track. The racers ARE the customers, and without new racers, the sport will die. By the way, I can't wait to get out there and have some FUN. That is what this is all about, right???
Normally I do not get involved in these sorts of discussions, but...
I have been racing Florida CCS for three years. I have been to several other CCS regional events (Southeast, even California) when I could make the trip. All of the events, at least as experienced by me, were run just fine. The Florida race schedule is set like it is because that is what the Florida racers want, not because it is better, or worse, than any of the other schedules chosen by the other regions.
So, I guess my first point is do not lump me in with ALL of the Florida racers you met at a weekend in which MOST of the Florida racers were, well, in Florida, not Georgia. I love the massive amount of practice I can get (if I so choose). I love the fact I am not pressured to drop the extra cash it takes for a two day event (if I so choose). I love the fact I can make a race weekend on one set of tires (if I so choose). Get my point?
Secondly, I know Henry from the 20 or so race weekends I have participated. Henry promotes these races because he loves motorcycle racing and motorcycle racers. I have never spoken to anyone in Florida that dislikes Henry or the way the events are run. If most of the Florida racers wanted a different schedule, Henry would change it. The event has to be managed for two days anyway! I guess the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, with the entry numbers Henry posted.
Thirdly, I cannot read Henry's mind, but I can guess his response is from the frustration of this, and other printed tirades against Florida CCS, by INDIVIDUAL authors purporting to speak for the majority of Florida racers, when they aren't.
From my personal experience:
- a call from Henry to see how I was doing after a helicopter ride out of Homestead
- a rain-out rescheduling of a race that cost the racers nothing extra
- a few concerned stops by my pit when I was making the race weekend alone
I can't see racing in any other region.
Racing is fun even for those of us who help make repairs, record lap times, make sure everyone is fed, and know where kids are (thats me :D).
You may find at times there are some tempers and disagreements, but overall everyone gets along and has fun. (Or at least I do) This is a forum that people can air out their gripes and concerns but they need to be prepared for any responses they may get.
Put it this way, this past weekend there were over 600 entries at Blackhawk Farms alone. With all the different regions out there holding races of their own and this thread is one of the few negatives, I think that this speaks highly of CCS and this is a good racing club to be in.
Dawn ;)
allen,
I feel henry's frustration because you have some personal pet peeve against him ,
You keep beating this drum every few months, you and what other riders from florida? funny enough you are the only one posting this crap.
I would have to say you are just burning a bridge you may have to cross some day if the CCS goes bank rupt , you have no back up sponsor like we have henry. He was here long before there was a CCS and trust me because of his care for the riders he will be here long after they are goe.
You are insullting a personal friend to more racers than mick doonan himself, Henry will never have to put his boot in your ass for one of us ridersxz will do it for him with pleasure, so shut up
I don't get it. First of all I do not have a pet peeve with Henry. I was and am merely trying to find out why there are feelings like the ones I experienced this last weekend. I have met Henry and he was a gentleman about answering my questions, I don't know what's going on now. As for your threat I can certyainly give you my address and you can see me face to face to air that 68. I will say it one last time I was just trying to find out why the people I spoke with, which was only the people I met this last weekend, have a problem with racing Florida. If I did not meet you I am not lumping you into to anything. I never said that those folks were most or all the Florida riders, just all I met. Other than a mishap, for me, at one track and my question about combined classes race, I haven't had a problem with Henry/CCS Florida. But I' certainly am wondering why a post on a forum about comments I heard has started such a mud slinging. The reason I started this was to find out if the comments I heard were the majority's feelings. I truely don't know. That's why I'm asking the question. See folks there is a question mark at the end of the header for this post.
Hello everyone!
Let me interject a couple of things here.
Henry DeGouw, DBA CCS Florida, is a CCS affiliate as long as he wants to be. Henry has nothing but the good of our sport as his motive for anything he does. As a retired racer (there are no ex-racers in my book), he has done some very wonderful things to get American riders noticed and to give them the chance to compete on an international level with the Maco GP. He has befriended thousands of racers, cared for more than a few of them when they got hurt, and has put his own money where his mouth was in keeping racing going in South Florida. I am proud to know and work with him.
In the 15 plus seasons Henry has been with CCS, (and even before that), he has done what is best for the racers and the program in Florida. Face it, without some chance of breaking even or making a profit, CCS Florida would have gone the way of the previous promoters in Florida. Knowing the ins and outs of producing these events, I understand completely why Henry runs practice on Saturday, race on Sunday. The entry fees and purses are in line with what CCS chooses to charge, the average rider racing with CCS pays $140 for three classes(the national average), while with Henry they pay $150. The gate fees are identical in most cases, the classes are the same with only a few exceptions (understandable, CCS is willing to experiment more than Henry) the rules are the same on race procedures, the only real difference is that Saturday is practice and Sunday are races. At CCS events, most riders are forced to stay over both days because we race on both days, where as with Henry you can come out to the track on Sunday and run all your classes in one shot. Depending on where you live, that can save you plenty of money in hotel and food costs. As it was already stated, you can practice on Saturday if you want, or skip it and just show up for the Sunday show, your choice.
As we do in specific regions, I see Henry's program taylored towards the majority of the riders in his region, exactly what we do in the Southwest and Pacific regions, and that is a good thing. I also see the program CCS runs in the Southeast as being taylored towards what the riders in that region want, and the only time things are different is when you Southeast riders crossover at NFMP. Different is not better or worse, it is just different.
If there is a ground swell of opposition to Henry in Florida, I have not seen it. It is a few riders here and there who take exception to how the program is run in Florida, and they are voicing their opinion. Fine, it is a free country, but you do not have to be disagreeable when you disagree with someone. Accept the fact that your opinion is not shared, and recognize that just as you are entitled to your opinion, the other person is entitled to his. Using e-mail and voice-mails as the measure, for every rider dissastisfied with the current Florida schedule, there are three that are happy with it.
So in summation, if you are unhappy with Henry or the Florida program, run CCS Southeast. If you are unhappy with the CCS Southeast program, run CCS Florida. If you would like to see a change in the program, write the person responsible for that program. If they are unable to change it to suit you, do not take it personal, just agree that you disagree and either accept it or move on. We want everyone to be happy, but in the end, it is the majority that counts, because without the majority, there would be no racing.
With that said, lets go to VIR and have a big retirement party for Spud Davis on Saturday night, OK?
Oh, Henry, it was 298 entries at Roebling, not 200...LOL
well said kevin. but to add to this. Henry and the way he runs his weekend and the personal feelings he has towards EVERY riders well being and safety is the reason why an older race like myself keeps coming back for more. I heard plenty of talk from frends of mine in other regions, and i probably would not race there. so hats off to henry.ccs 227 so florida.