Which SUV should I buy? I'm open to anything and everything. What do you guys use to pull your trailer?
Oh and one more thing.. new M3 or new S4?
OOOO m3 or s4..I love the idea of smg and audi's new one is supposed to be the sh!t but I dont think you can get it in the s4....yet. the 04 m3's are supposed to be much improved engine wise (relieability and performance) but I guess a 400hp v8 m3 is "only" a year or so away, spring 05 maybe...ginger or mary anne?
If you've got too much money, join my race team and buy my TZ, use it as a spare bike. We can figure out the transportation issues.
Think out it.
Audis ROCK. But to tow a trailer? I don't think so.
We just bought the new GMC Z-71 diesel. Now THAT'S a towing package. Just think, down the road you may want a 24 or 28 foot trailer.
Sean.. you're nuts. I'm getting rid of my SUV that I have now because it's a piece of crap. I need something more reliable. That junk is in the shop about every 2 months. Maybe I should go the Van route like you. Seems like there will be less hassles. Don't really like pulling a trailer anyway. Who ever has too much money? I'm just getting by like everyone else so I must be sensible.
QuoteAudis ROCK. But to tow a trailer? I don't think so.
We just bought the new GMC Z-71 diesel. Now THAT'S a towing package. Just think, down the road you may want a 24 or 28 foot trailer.
I didn't mean the M3 or S4 to pull a trailer. I just wanted an opinion about either of the two because I might have to get one of them due to unusual circumstances.
QuoteI might have to get one of them due to unusual circumstances.
Hmm. Unusual circumstances forcing you to buy an SUV. Color me intrigued.
M3/S4- Would you rather
leap out of turns? -S4
hang the rear out on exits? - M3
have others notice when you arrive? -M3
make a fashionable arrival? -S4
drive anywhere in the snow? -S4
wish the roads were dry? -M3
have an almost certain high resale value? -M3
gamble on resale value? -S4
I'm sure I could think of more...
Mary Anne in the passenger seat of the M3. :)
2004 Durango with a Hemi! New bodystyle and all...coming to a Dodge store very soon. ;)
01 F250 Superduty 4x4 :)
Ram 2500 w/Cummins Turbodiesel!
3/4 ton suburban with 6.0L
or better yet yukon xl denali
If I could have the SUV of my choice it would be a Unimog. Does that count?
-z.
You asked, so here you go!
Towing Basics: The longer the wheel base of your tow vehicle, the more control you have over your trailer. Common mistake is to purchase something like a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a V-8 thinking that it will have plenty of power to pull a decent sized enclosed trailer or something else heavy. Though the engine MAY do it, the vehicle is a uni-body and doesn't have a full frame, and the wheel base is quite short and an enclosed trailer much longer than that vehicle will be questionably safe at highway speed. Towing packages including HD trans cooler, radiator, and oil coolers are a must! Some vehicles are also very susceptible to the 'T' connectors often times used to splice into the vehicles lighting system for trailer plugs, so independent wiring should be used that doesn't tie into the factory lighting system (unless thru relays or a factory installed plug).
I personally own an '02 Ford F-250 Crewcab shortbed Turbo-Diesel, previously a '95 GMC 3/4 ton Suburban with a 454, and pull a 26' V-nose enclosed car hauler (4500 lbs. empty). Diesels by far are the way to go if you will be towing often and for distance. They do have their inconveniences though, including more limited fuel availability, hard starting in the winter if engine block heater wasn't plugged in all night long, and the noise and smell too. On the plus side they get better fuel milage than gas engines of similar power and pull trailers great. All of the "Big 3's" Diesel trucks are 3/4 or 1 ton and come with good transmissions and drivetrains built to tow well, with the GM Alison transmission being the best. The new Ford 6.0 Diesel engine is questionable and it would be better to find an early '03 or previous 7.3 Diesel engine if looking at Ford. The new Ford 6.0 and GM Duramax Diesels are very quite for Diesels, but at the cost of some power to the rear wheels in real world applications. The Dodge Diesel is know for good power, but is definately the LOUDEST. The Ford 7.3 Turbo-Diesel is a very widely accepted good package.
If going with a lighter duty 1/2 ton truck you need to be aware of several important things. Using GM as an example, you can get a pick-up, a van, or an SUV as a 1/2 ton vehicle. These same vehicles will also offer a 3/4 or 1 ton version and/or HD version which will be much better suited for the job of towing, but at the cost of how smooth it rides. The transmissions on the 1/2 tons (4L60E) are definately the weak link in the chain. This trans was used in many passenger vehicles also and is notorious for loosing Overdrive, especially if towing in OD. Unless you are towing a smaller enclosed trailer or lower weight, do not use OD on a 1/2 ton while towing! Another issue is tongue weight of the trailer when loaded, 1/2 tons will be dragging butt alot easier if tongue loaded. I think we've all seen an SUV pulling a camper trailer before with the rear bumper of the truck barely off the ground! One option is to purchase a weight distribution hitch to counter act that sagging problem, just make sure ahead of time that it will work with your trailer type.
I am of the mind-set that overkill will most likely NOT leave you stranded somewhere. Buying a vehicle that says it will just be able to tow your application is really risking it, I wouldn't get into that upper 1/4 of the tow capacity myself, that's just asking for stuff to fail on you.
Heavier applications: 3/4 or 1 ton Diesel with towing package. Whether an SUV or longer pick-up (such as a Crewcab) really depends on how many people you will be carrying and if you need a pick-up bed for a 5th wheel or hauling stuff. Gas versions will be more convenient, but will definately hurt at the pump!
Medium and lower applications: 1/2 ton P/U or SUV and again the longer the wheel base the better and towing package is a must! Stay away from short wheel bases and uni-bodies, full frames are a must.
I can get you a "Green sheet" if you want a new Durango.I think there still offering 4500 cash back plus the green sheet savings. When I bought mine I saved a total of $9800 off sticker. I bought it at Thomas Dodge of Orland Park. Great bunch of people there. You can even search there web sight to see what they have in stock. E-mail me and let me know if you want to go that route. Mark B.
I like my van. Last year when I decided to go racing again I was up in the air whether to get an enclosed trailer or a van. I decided on the van and I can't be happier with my decision. It doesn't take up any more space than the trailer would have and it is self propelled. I got it for not much more than the cost of a nice trailer and I got to keep my Impreza. I couldn't stand the idea of driving back and forth to work everyday in a big honking truck.
super-
just get a used van and sell me your trailer for real cheap!!!$$$$$$$$$$$$
S4 M3 either way dog you can't go wrong.
M3 might be more practicle. S4 might be more fun.
"with the top down screaming out money ain't a thing"
A van would be very accomodating to the size of your current race package, but if you decide to take both an R6 and the TZ to the track, space will be at a premium.
Another option is the Dodge Sprinter 2500. It's a rebadged diesel Frieghtliner/Mercedes import. It's larger than your average van (both in length and interior height - space for trailer-like cabinets and multiple motorcycles). I believe they start at around the high 20's.
QuoteI can get you a "Green sheet" if you want a new Durango.I think there still offering 4500 cash back plus the green sheet savings. When I bought mine I saved a total of $9800 off sticker. I bought it at Thomas Dodge of Orland Park. Great bunch of people there. You can even search there web sight to see what they have in stock. E-mail me and let me know if you want to go that route. Mark B.
I am a salesperson at a Dodge dealership. Green sheets are only good for immediate family. The 2003's with the $4500 rebate are dwindling fast, but I have a huge inventory of 2500's still. Let me know if I can be of some assistance. ;)
M3...definitely.
Sprinters? Real high center of gravity, and, apparently, they are prone to falling over in higher winds. Not sure if they are the answer. The power plants seem to be on the weak side.
Full size vans are cheap to purchase compared to pretty much everything else. You really don't want one, unless you're a sick racer or something, you need one. So, they aren't marked up through the roof like SUV's (Stupid Useless Vehicles) and Pick-ups.
Towing? Vans blow when they have to pull longer loads along with short wheel base full size SUV's like the Yukon and Expedition. Get to a bigger 18 foot trailer loade up with this set up and you will need weight distribution and dynamic sway control.
And of course I use an E350 Superduty Diesel shuttle bus. I bought it for less than what a van costs and I get a diesel. I'm hooked on diesels now. So much torque and economy...
QuoteI am a salesperson at a Dodge dealership. Green sheets are only good for immediate family. The 2003's with the $4500 rebate are dwindling fast, but I have a huge inventory of 2500's still. Let me know if I can be of some assistance. ;)
Normally that would be correct but... we are allowed to give
one Green sheet to anyone we want (family, friend ,or stranger) on a one time basis. That just came down from Daimler Corperate the week before last. But normally it's only for family members. So once again if you want a green sheet controll number, contact me by e-mail and I will get you a controll number. Mark B.
QuoteM3...definitely.
Towing? Vans blow when they have to pull longer loads along with short wheel base full size SUV's like the Yukon and Expedition. Get to a bigger 18 foot trailer loade up with this set up and you will need weight distribution and dynamic sway control.
A TZ would fit nicely in the back of a van, therefore, no towing needed. Plus, you could get one of those, "If this vans a rockin"... stickers! ;D
QuoteNormally that would be correct but... we are allowed to give one Green sheet to anyone we want (family, friend ,or stranger) on a one time basis. That just came down from Daimler Corperate the week before last. But normally it's only for family members. So once again if you want a green sheet controll number, contact me by e-mail and I will get you a controll number. Mark B.
Sweet!
QuoteSweet!
Learn somthing new everyday! lol
My van is a Ford E250, the longer one. I can fiit two fullsize bikes, a pit bike, a bicycle and all the gear that two guys need to go racing. It will crusie at 80mph and still get 15-16mpg. I do wish I had a diesel though.
I had never heard of the Sprinters blowing over. I was thinking of buying one of those when my car is paid off. I like the taller interior and they are supposed to get real good mileage.
My 250 is a 5 speed and tows better than the previous GM Automatic I had.
M3 for sure. That's one hell of a circumstance to be in. If you must have an SUV go for an Expedition w/ 7.3 Turbo Diesel. With Ford's new 6 ltr. diesel coming out lots of trade ins should be around. If money is not an issue pick up a new F250 or 350 SuperCrew pickup w/ the 6 ltr diesel. Before you buy check Consumer Reports on the towing capacities- one manufacturer got nailed for overquoting their vehicles towing #s. We run a F250 with the 7.3 TD and 0 problems so far at 105k. So, what are you leaning towards, the M or the S?
I'm very impressed with the towing capability of my 2002 Chevy Tahoe with the 5.3L gas engine. It has a tow/haul mode and pulls much better and has more power than the 1997 Chevy Tahoe I traded in to get the new Tahoe. I pulled my 7x12 encloded trailer to Daytona and all the regional races and could simply set the cruise on 75 and it would maintain that speed, even through the mountains!
ford excursion V10 plenty of power plenty of room oh yea and plenty of gas in it
QuoteI bought it at Thomas Dodge of Orland Park. Mark B.
Hey! I thought you Kegells boys were all from Milwaukee. Thomas Dodge is in my neck of the woods!
QuoteHey! I thought you Kegells boys were all from Milwaukee. Thomas Dodge is in my neck of the woods!
See what you get for thinking again! lol Kegel's is in Rockford Il. Karl's brother use to own Milwaukee HD sstore but he sold out this past year and retired.I actually live about 2 minuits from the Clock Tower Inn. (20 min. from BHF) Orland Park is about an hour and 15 min. from me. They just happened to have what I was looking for in stock. I saved $9800 on a 2003 2WD SLT. Couldnt beat the deal with a large stick!
holy moly... didn't expect everyone to chime in like this. Lots of good information here. Mark B, thanks for the offer but I think I'll be staying away from any SUV. Maybe a used van is ideal since my whole race package is so small and light. Then I could as Kevin said put the "don't come a knockin if the van is a rockin" sticker on it. Mike, holy moly... that was an essay on tow vehicles. I learned quite a bit.
Now.. as far as M3 or S4. S4 is a sedan. I like 4 doors. The new M3 only comes in a coupe or convertible style if I'm correct. M3 has a 333 horsepower 3.2 liter straight 6 whereas the S4 has a 340 horsepower 4.2 liter V8. The M3 starts at $46,500. The S4 starts at $46.340. After options, the M3 will cost significantly more. I'm leaning toward the S4 due to the V8 and four doors but can't let go of the M3 because I've wanted one since high school. Decisions Decisions. Anyone want to buy a 2000 Mercedes ML430 with 55k miles? :P
I really like my Avalanche. I've got the Z66 w/ 5.3L V8. I can fit a bunch of stuff in the back under the hard tonneau cover, pull a 16' trailer, and carry four passengers. I've also removed the tonneau cover, loaded the bike and gear into the bed for a quick track day trip.
If you need additional hauling capacity (mine is a 1500) you can get the 2500.
Drives great, leather interior, and is the Swiss Army Knife of SUVs.
Dave
QuoteThe M3 starts at $46,500. The S4 starts at $46.340. After options, the M3 will cost significantly more. I'm leaning toward the S4 due to the V8 and four doors but can't let go of the M3 because I've wanted one since high school. Decisions Decisions. Anyone want to buy a 2000 Mercedes ML430 with 55k miles? :P
What do you do for a living? Crack dealer? :o
QuoteAll of the "Big 3's" Diesel trucks are 3/4 or 1 ton and come with good transmissions and drivetrains built to tow well, with the GM Alison transmission being the best. The new Ford 6.0 Diesel engine is questionable and it would be better to find an early '03 or previous 7.3 Diesel engine if looking at Ford. The new Ford 6.0 and GM Duramax Diesels are very quite for Diesels, but at the cost of some power to the rear wheels in real world applications. The Dodge Diesel is know for good power, but is definately the LOUDEST. The Ford 7.3 Turbo-Diesel is a very widely accepted good package.
I think it would be more correct to say "the new Ford 6.0 Diesel engine WAS questionable...". Ford has finally released a PCM flash update that, by all accounts, really does fix the minor problems a number of people were having - namely, rough idle smoking on startup and low takeoff power (below 1800 RPMs).
I have had my 6.0 PSD since last January and have 25K miles on it now. The thing rocks! It replaced my previous '00 F250 SuperDuty that had the 6.8L V10. In comparison, the 6.0 is quieter on the highway (yes, really!), faster, quicker, and better fuel mileage. It's more horsepower than the V10 (or any of the competition's diesels) and way more torque.
And Ford's new TorqShift transmission is a thing of beauty. Of course, everybody will have their own opinions, but all the ones I've seen are that the new Ford auto tranny is better than the Chevy/GMC Allison. There have been some minor quirks with the engine (this is coming from a guy who's had ALL the problems that have been being talked about), but through it all, the new tranny has been stellar.
I'm not sure why you'd say that the Ford and GM are quiet at the cost of some power to the rear wheels. Both are more powerful than the Dodge and the Ford, at least, has more torque. I believe the Ford has proven, in magazine reviews, to rule the roost when it comes to towing heavy loads, too. And it dang sure beats the snot out of the old 7.3.
And last, but not least, it should be noted for the non-turbo-diesel afficionados that any of these (the Dodge, Chevy or Ford) are VASTLY more amenable to "hotrodding" than any gas motors. A SuperChips chip for the Ford 6.8L V10 (gas) engine will add 25 HP and 50 ft-lbs of torque. I know. I had one in mine. And that was at the expense of worse mileage around town and having to run 93 octane gas.
The Ford 6.0 PSD (PowerStroke Diesel) for example, can, with the addition of a "chip" that costs anywhere from $500 to $900, add 120 HP and 250 ft-lbs of torque AND get better fuel mileage (1 - 2 mpg). Mine will soon have a Quadzilla adjustable module and be putting down over 400 HP to the rear wheels and something like 800 ft-lbs of torque. Guys with this module are running their F250 SuperDutys from 0 - 60 MPH in 7.0 seconds. You can't touch that with a gasser. The Ford SVT Lightning *might* run that, but the SuperDuty will leave it for dead if you hook them both up to a load.
Anyways...
SuperDuck,
Get yo'sef a diesel pickup (I highly recommend the F250 or F350 with a 6.0 PSD) or an E350 van with the 6.0 PSD. I'd get the van myself if it weren't that Ford doesn't offer a van with a diesel and 4-wheel drive. I gotta have 4wd. A diesel van with 4wd would be the best of all worlds. You can fit bikes in it without hauling a trailer. You can unload and sleep in it. And you can still tow a BIG trailer with it, if you want to.
- Stu
QuoteWhat do you do for a living? Crack dealer? :o
I'm a dance choreographer. :)
I think that I'll stick with the '02 Dodge 2500 with the 6 speed and Cummin turbo diesel. ;)
Pulls great and still gets good milage.
QuoteI'd get the van myself if it weren't that Ford doesn't offer a van with a diesel and 4-wheel drive. I gotta have 4wd. A diesel van with 4wd would be the best of all worlds. You can fit bikes in it without hauling a trailer. You can unload and sleep in it. And you can still tow a BIG trailer with it, if you want to.
- Stu
Whoa, Stu....
Ford has been offering Quigley conversions for some time. You can have a 4x4 van from Ford. You just have to have a dealer that cares enough to get it figured out.
The diesels in vans are not the same diesels as in trucks. You loose a good amout of power because you can't put an intercooler on them...no room. They will have the 6.0 and the cool trans in them though.
Super Chips Micro Tuners cost about $350 on the internet for the International motors that Ford uses...Power Strokes. I have one for my '96 bus. I have two selections. The first one adds about 100 ft lbs of torque and changes all the shift points. Second one adds more, but you'll want an EGT gauge and you will loose the mileage gain from the first upgrade. The new Micro Turners now have three "maps".
Superduck taught Wade Robinson all his moves.
QuoteMark B, thanks for the offer but I think I'll be staying away from any SUV. Maybe a used van is ideal since my whole race package is so small and light.
No problem. Let me know if you change your mind. It's good for all new Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep vehichle. Good luck on your hunt! Mark B.
QuoteWhoa, Stu....
Ford has been offering Quigley conversions for some time. You can have a 4x4 van from Ford. You just have to have a dealer that cares enough to get it figured out.
[snip]
Super Chips Micro Tuners cost about $350 on the internet for the International motors that Ford uses...Power Strokes. I have one for my '96 bus. I have two selections. The first one adds about 100 ft lbs of torque and changes all the shift points. Second one adds more, but you'll want an EGT gauge and you will loose the mileage gain from the first upgrade. The new Micro Turners now have three "maps".
What's a Quigley conversion? I was basing my statements on info from Ford's website and Edmund's. Neither of them lists any Ford vans (except maybe an E150 all-wheel drive?) that have a 4x4 option. At least not in the models that have the diesel option.
I didn't realize that the 6.0 PSD that is finally being offered in the E350 was rated for less power than the F-series version. I thought I read a brochure that said it was the same. Hmmm.... I don't think I'd go for the van option if it wasn't just as much HP/torque as the F-series. And a tranny as good as the TorqShift, too.
As for SuperChips, they still don't have a module for the 6.0 (AFAIK). Even if they did, I really like the idea of the Quadzilla (and BullyDog and others) module that has 4 different power levels, which you can switch between on the fly. Towing today? Switch to the +60 HP mode. Commuting to work? Switch to the +90 mode. Sitting next to a Mustang at a light? Switch to the +120 mode. None of that unloading/reloading programs stuff like you have with the SCMT.
Huh? You guys are scaring me with all that techno-speek again, but it sure is educational! ;D
We started out with a '95 Ford E250 with a V8. Then we got the 14' trailer. Thus far, it's worked out well... pulls fine and still manages about 10 mpg. Having a van beats a pickup or SUV all to snot for the additional carrying capacity... but next time I sure wouldn't mind going the "short bus" route a'la Super Dave (or the Lonny-sized version!)
Motor Home with the V-10 (deisel would have been better, but not available in our price range).
As for a car.... 91 Buick Park Ave 4 door, 28-29 mpg, 4 doors, leather, concert sound system, dynaride, power everything. $1800.00
Purchased in March, $0.00 in vested
Dawn :)
Just got a '90 Sable myself. It's great.
Back to PSD. The van WILL have the new trans with the 6.0. Yes, the motor isn't the same. Like I said no room. Really, it just looses the intercooler and the extra boost ability that the motor has because of that.
Still, I think I'm probably up at 500 ft lbs of torque with the extra 100 from the micro tuner.
I think the trick with just flipping a switch is that is still isn't that simple. When you do move up to some of those extra high HP settings, you will need an EGT gauge (Exhaust Gas Temperature) and probably a bigger exhuast than stock to actually move the mixture. Otherwise, you'll just push a lot of smoke and you can completely trash the turbo.
Here's a link to a pic of a well mod-ed E350 4x4 with the Quigley conversion. That's the company name of who does it for Ford. You've got to ask the dealer, and they've got to care to find out.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/27554105/48919172NwAznu
If I were to make a big mod to my van, next would be propane injection. That's easy and cleaner running in addition to bringing the EGT's down. Probably worth another 100HP right there.
Quote 91 Buick Park Ave 4 door, 28-29 mpg, 4 doors, leather, concert sound system, dynaride, power everything. $1800.00
Purchased in March, $0.00 in vested
Dawn :)
Happiness is no stinking car payment. Argh, I've got two. :'( At least one of them is for an 03 Chevy 2500HD with the Duramax ;D
Large car payments build character. ::)
Bah! Folks already think we're characters. What we need is more time at the track!
03 chev crew cab dually, duramax, 6-speed. 17-19mpg daily driving and 10-11mpg pulling a 26' enclosed trailer w/2 bikes, a golf cart, 1000lb toolbox and about everything needed but the kitchen sink, with the cruise set on 75-78mph. dang i love those stinky diesels.
Quote03 chev crew cab dually, duramax, 6-speed. 17-19mpg daily driving and 10-11mpg pulling a 26' enclosed trailer w/2 bikes, a golf cart, 1000lb toolbox and about everything needed but the kitchen sink, with the cruise set on 75-78mph. dang i love those stinky diesels.
I just saw a huge Ford diesel truck 4X4 with huge tires and a lift run a 12.XX 1/4 mile at Gateway last night! :o I was extremely impressed (and embarrased) at the same time!
QuoteI just saw a huge Ford diesel truck 4X4 with huge tires and a lift run a 12.XX 1/4 mile at Gateway last night! :o I was extremely impressed (and embarrased) at the same time!
LOL!!!
There was a day that Paul and I were in Appleton in our '92 Dodge 3/4 ton, 4x4 diesel truck (we had a cord of wood in the back too) we were at a stop light. The car that pulled next to us was a Fast & Furious wanna be with the body kit, neon lights, fart pipe and all we could hear in the truck was the boom, boom, boom of his subwoofers.
Well..... We are waiting for the light to turn green and the young pup next to us starts racing his engine. I looked at Paul and said "Can you believe it, he want's to race us." You know Paul, he could turn this down so.... he spooled up the turbo.... the light turned green... and we wasted that young boy's a _ _ ... ;D
I bet he had a hard time living that one down because he had two friends in the car at the time. We were laughing all the way home.
Those diesel's have a lot of tourque off the line, but get our truck over 75 and it says.... "I'm not designed to go this fast."
Dawn :)