Anyone else get a survey call about why you we're not attending Daytona?
I got a call today, something about Daytona. The wife answered the phone (I was at work) so I have no idea what the deal was. She won't fess up to it, but I bet she gave the caller an earful.
I was called last weekend, or maybe the weekend before.
When asked, I told the ladie... it is hard to enter when you never recieve the mailer
After reading about this I wonder if maybe there was a somewhat low amount of people who pre-registered?
QuoteAnyone else get a survey call about why you we're not attending Daytona?
:o they called me I asked "What u want someone for the guys to lap?" LMAO.... NO just kidding
Brent u have mail.
Quote After reading about this I wonder if maybe there was a somewhat low amount of people who pre-registered?
275 people on the pre-reg list, is that a small list? That would probably average 30-40 per race.
What? I think that they usually have like 1500 entries for Daytona...total entries, not riders.
I haven't got a call, myself.
QuoteWhat? I think that they usually have like 1500 entries for Daytona...total entries, not riders.
I haven't got a call, myself.
there were 275 riders on that list. So it would take 5 entries per person to make up 1500 entries. Since I think most people are doing 3-4, I think they are a little light then
Quote:o they called me I asked "What u want someone for the guys to lap?" LMAO.... NO just kidding
Brent u have mail.
thanks smoke for the pics at VIR
Maybe CCS needs to wake up and smell the coffee, people don't like going to Daytona . Look at the grids last ROC. They were a joke and this year will probably be a repeat.
if WERA can hold a champinship at barber, no reason that CCS can't. they really need to find a new venue for a national champinship. If someone really wants to race at daytona they can do it every spring. lets see, horrible circut(if you can call it that), dangerous, have to take a full week off work, expensive, can't really figure out why they may have small grids!.
It has been a good place for the program for, well, forever. Ever since CCS has had a ROC, it's been at Daytona. Honda had their finals there too.
I don' t think entries have been a problem in the past because of the track, but maybe because of a shift in the economy. To have any kind of a ROC program, eventually, you'd have to have a week off. Yes, Biketober fest has grown so that hotel's and all are more expensive.
But, I suppose you'd have to name a track in the south that could handle 80 rider grids. Road America would work, but it would be a bit cold. Who wants to go there then. Any track with that kind of size is going to require a great deal of cash.
Try not to bag on it unless you can have an option.
Barber? I think you're back to size. Location is right. TWS? Bad. No Problem Raceway? Heard bad things. Road Atlanta? Taken, and there are issues of safety there, as there are at pretty much every track.
QuoteMaybe CCS needs to wake up and smell the coffee, people don't like going to Daytona . Look at the grids last ROC. They were a joke and this year will probably be a repeat.
Ray, are there any tracks you like beside CMP? :P
Roebling,Summit,VIR,Road A,Jennings is good track just in BFE. Daytona is very boringgggggggggggggg.
I like daytona. I've had some very good racing there. I enjoy the drafting and the heavy braking areas, the tight slippery horseshoes and trying not to highside in the dog leg again. ::)
Running down the hill in turn 12 at Road Atlanta scares me far more than anything Daytona can throw at me. Every lap I can see myself losing the front and slamming right into the wall. :o
Daytona is hard on your equipment and rewards good preperation as well as good riding. Besides you wouldn't want to have it at Barber because you want to be able to ride there more than twice a year.
super dave has made a good point. daytona has alot of history for ROC I have been going there for 8 yrs now.The cost factor is why that turn out may be low and the tough times we are in does not help the matter. The thing that sucks for me this year is the cost for hotel rooms. my team is paying $140 a night! what a rip
Daytona is has gotten just too expensive. It's a long way to go for us in the western U.S. and it costs as much as three or four regionals. Daytona sucks the money out of your wallet and the life out of your equipment.
Daytona is definitely worth doing at least once. The track is legendary and until you have been up there you cannot really imagine what it's like. Daytona is like no other, but it wears on you........I'll be back.
Mark
Mark, I'll agree that Daytona is expensive. About ten years ago, we could barter a price for a beach hotel...we paid $26 a night for two people...and we had a pool.
Distance is bad for everyone, but worse for the Western riders, I agree. As part of the overall cost, I don't think it makes a huge difference. I would thing you'd take off two extra days from work and drive an extra couple, few thousand miles. In the over all scheme, it's not as big as the hotel or tire costs.
But again, what track could you use that you could start eighty riders? Road America would be good, but the timing would be bad.
Talladega Motor Speedway? Same tire problems and wall problems. Would be a bit closer for some people.
What about Road A?
QuoteBut again, what track could you use that you could start eighty riders? Road America would be good, but the timing would be bad.
.
theres gonna be eighty riders in some classes? :o
Quotetheres gonna be eighty riders in some classes? :o
:) If each race was a full grid, there would be 80 bikes in each race. Sounds like fun, eh? You've got to figure there will be riders from all the ccs regions present racing for championships. Hopefully the low pre-entry numbers will mean smaller fields.
Jeff
CCS #419
QuoteDaytona is has gotten just too expensive. It's a long way to go for us in the western U.S. and it costs as much as three or four regionals. Daytona sucks the money out of your wallet and the life out of your equipment.
Daytona is definitely worth doing at least once. The track is legendary and until you have been up there you cannot really imagine what it's like. Daytona is like no other, but it wears on you........I'll be back.
Mark
I need to say that the hotels, restaurants and airlines are being crappy about the whole thing too. They raise prices like there is going to be 50,000 fans in the bleachers. Last year there was 10 people in the bleachers and I think they were racers checking out the place. Clear Channel doesn't do any advertising and the track doesn't either. It would be nice to have fans pick up some of the expense by knowing that there is an event running at the track. We racers have to pick up the whole thing. You wonder why there is a low turn out?? What's up? :-/
Eddie what day are you talking about? the stands in the International horseshoe were FULL on sunday and were about 50% full on Sat.
I think he was talking about the BIG grandstands. The hotels go up because it is Biketoberfest, which grows significantly larger every year. It is basically just like bike week down on the beach, and the hotels jump on it. I just wish they would hook the racers up. We are camping in Deland at the KOA. ;)
QuoteWhat about Road A?
I think we visted that...
It could snow, or it could be 55 degrees. More than likely, those would be your options. Doesn't make for anything promising.
Hey! Why can't CCS/Formula USA-ClearChannel get with one of the major hotels and get us a MAJOR discount? We are the real reason that there is a Biketoberfest!
Real reason? No, it's the people that go there to pose and play like they do during Bike Week. There's a half million people there then, and only a minority come to any of the races. Biketober Fest is just an extention of that. No AMA Pro races, off road events, etc., so the racers and spectators are and even smaller minority.
The hotels can make money without the discounted prices.
QuoteI think we visted that...
It could snow, or it could be 55 degrees. More than likely, those would be your options. Doesn't make for anything promising.
Road Atlanta...not america ;D
QuoteRoad Atlanta...not america ;D
I thought we talked about danger there...
I've been there for big bike fields...bikes are actually gridded into the last corner. And WERA has their gig then. Doesn't seem likely.
QuoteI thought we talked about danger there...
I've been there for big bike fields...bikes are actually gridded into the last corner. And WERA has their gig then. Doesn't seem likely.
Hey Super D - you around today? Have a minute for a quick chat re Daytona (see my new thread)?
This both the track and CCS have been doing some advertising. There have been radio spots advertising the races on both the Daytona and Orlando stations. Also, I just received an email flyer/advert about the races from Clear Channel.
Last year they didn't even open the big grandstands to spectators. Everyone had to come into the infield. The crowd was pretty good, lining the fences through the infield, and the infield grandstands seemed quite full as well.
The track is so big that 20k or 30k people just get swallowed and it appears that the crowd is smaller than it actually is.
I'm going this year, I live only about 30 miles away, but I'm post-entering due to unexpected costs popping up.
C ya there!
Dave
QuoteHey Super D - you around today? Have a minute for a quick chat re Daytona (see my new thread)?
No. Work, etc.
My Daytona info is for my students exclusively. Sorry. They paid for it. I've got to keep it for them.
QuoteNo. Work, etc.
My Daytona info is for my students exclusively. Sorry. They paid for it. I've got to keep it for them.
Who said anything about info? I've already got a source for that. I was looking at ride sharing - but I've got it all sorted out now.
Sorry, Tom... Usually, "quick chat's" regarding anything for a race track is a flag to me about something else.
Had to make a decision in Mid-September that I wasn't going to go to Daytona. I have a smaller budget than most people.
And I hope you have good luck. :o The place is big.
QuoteBut again, what track could you use that you could start eighty riders? Road America would be good, but the timing would be bad.
Why does the ROC need to have 80 rider grids? What would be wrong with limiting the grids to 60, or even 40? I think that would still give the top finishers from each region a legitimate shot. Why not guarantee slots for the top 10 from each region (in each class) and accept other entries on a space-available basis?
I think Barber or Road Atlanta would be a much better venue for the ROC than Daytona. I was tired of racing at Daytona in '93. I would never bother racing there again unless I was chasing points (or a championship at the ROC). And Barber or Road A. would be much more reflective of the racing environments that got people to the ROC in the first place. I wish I could go to the ROC this year, but one thing I was not looking forward to was being at the front of the Unlimited GP grid on a 600 Supersport machine. My R6 got me to the top of the points in that class during the season because it was competitive with bigger bikes at all the usual SE region tracks. But I know it was not going to be competitve at Daytona against the bigger bikes and somehow that just seems kinda lame.
- Stu
stuarts on the rite track, this should be an invitation only event, a reward & opportunity for the best racers in each region to compete for a national championship. if you make it invitation only (with alternates) you could limit the grid size, change location and put it a good motorcycle circut/track that everyone could enjoy. it just doesn't make sence to call a race "the race of champions" when you allow racers with no chance of winning to clog up the grids, if you want to race daytona, fine, race it in the spring time with florida ccs.
Well, you've got to rent the track. It costs money. Grids are by regional position, but some riders can't make it, or can't afford it.
So, you could invite certain people, but if they don't show up. You still have a race track to pay for.
Daytona is pretty "grand". People want to just race there, if only once. That helps with the entries, even if riders are coming from across the country.
Road Atlanta? I guess I always looked at the GNF as being a race at someone's local track. Makes it a little harder when you have to learn a new track for the championship determining race, and many of your competitors race there often.
The location should be unique, or at least rotated between some tracks. However, you'd never get it to a location in the Midwest that time of year, so, we'd always play second fiddle.
the formula of invitation only at a regional track works well for wera. i would imagine road atlanta isa fairly expensive track to rent and wera seems to keep going back every year so i guess getting people to come on an inviation only basis is not a problem. barber would be the best choice, worth the trip & expence, nice layout, fairly neutal as se only runs there once a year. if you put this race at a great track, it would just be extra insentive(every one likes to race on great circut) for racers to qualify for the race of champions which would benifit the regions as well.
WERA's got a few things going for it. Big local entries, Mel Harris likes having the Suzuki Cup there, and I think Road Atlanta probably subsidizes a little of it with a good deal. It's still a revenue maker for Road Atlanta.
Still greatly favors the locals, period. Really can't get over that. I doubt that a rider like David Guy is going to be able to come from California and feel as though he's competitive against people that have more opportunities to ride there.
Barber is the same. Sure, SE only goes there how many times, but WERA goes there, track programs, etc.
Daytona is really neutral. Unless you have a factory ride and a Dunlop contract, you'll only be able to go there in the spring and in the fall. I'm not saying it's the best choice, but it certainly is neutral. When I was starting out, many years ago, I realized that. Whether I was driving 1500 miles one way or a guy was breaking in his bike riding behind his van from California, at least you would know that if you hadn't raced there before, we'd all be in the same boat. Sure, there are people that are more local to the track, so they don't have the days of travel stress and expense, but at least they didn't ride there and get set up way before you.
QuoteBarber or Road Atlanta would be a much better venue for the ROC than Daytona.
Barber or Road A. would be much more reflective of the racing environments that got people to the ROC in the first place.
Here, here!
Super Dave, you make many very good points. The only one I really disagree with is what you're saying about Road Atlanta. It seems to me to be *almost* as hard to get a motorcycle on that track as Daytona. Not quite, but close. CCS doesn't go there at all and I think WERA only runs there once during the regular season. And there are little or no track days there for bikes. Just the Schwantz school and maybe CLASS or something like that.
In other words, Road Atlanta seems to be pretty darn neutral to me.
And none of your points address the issue I raised about the "character" of the racing. Daytona is a huge horsepower track. In that respect, it is unlike any of the other regional tracks. For somebody who wins a regional championship in Unlimited GP, riding a 600 SS machine, Daytona makes it *very* unlikely that they could win the ROC. I don't like that at all. I think the National Championship in each class should reflect all of the regional championships, in terms of what is rewarded with a win. If all the regional series reward skilled riding over horsepower, then I don't think it's very good that the national championship would change that and reward the competitors based on a significantly different mix of riding versus horsepower.
In a perfect world.
- Stu
Quotestuarts on the rite track, this should be an invitation only event, a reward & opportunity for the best racers in each region to compete for a national championship. if you make it invitation only (with alternates) you could limit the grid size, change location and put it a good motorcycle circut/track that everyone could enjoy. it just doesn't make sence to call a race "the race of champions" when you allow racers with no chance of winning to clog up the grids, if you want to race daytona, fine, race it in the spring time with florida ccs.
I enjoyed the comment about racers with no chance of winning that clog up the grid , that's the same thing the top AMA riders say about privateers entering Pro races. The idea of Daytona is that it's a fun place to be, you get to ride on the banking it is like going to wrigley field it's fun. I have been to Daytona on and off in the spring and fall for a long time , i still get chills when i stand at the bottom of the track and stare up the banking!
The other challenge is doing well at Daytona and beating the track , not just the other racers.I can't tell you how many times i have been bitten at Daytona or how many races my bikes have won there , but there is no better place to have the end of the season race than the high banks!
I would never have traveled there if not for the ROC. Riding those crazy banks was a shining high point of my life, so I guess I can't complain about the ROC being held there.
QuoteThe idea of Daytona is that it's a fun place to be, you get to ride on the banking it is like going to wrigley field it's fun.....I can't tell you how many times i have been bitten at Daytona or how many races my bikes have won there , but there is no better place to have the end of the season race than the high banks!
I think that puts it well, Jim.
This guy wanted me to race this vintage CR750 at Daytona for him. He had it in his mind that it would be "easy." Put me on the bike, the bike has power, etc. I told him, "Daytona sucks, unless you win." Took us three tries to finally win, then we won two races in two days. It's always hard, it seems to always be a thrash, but to finally have something that says: First Place - Daytona International Speedway. Hey, it IS Daytona.