Continuing from amatuer to ex thread...
Super Dave. I would pay 400 bucks for instruction provided the instruction is of a high quality and there is time to practice what you are learning. The key is what you get out of it. If I get $400 of instruction from a day (< 8 rides would be a good step in this direction) then I would fork it over.
Just compare it to how much it costs to learn by crashing. I would like to avoid that type of expense.
I can probably do a racer day at Blackhawk for that kind of money. I can pay the rent, get a couple of workers, pay the daycare bill, cover some of my expenses, etc.
Under my previous schools, depending upon experience and timeliness of enrollment, the cost was an average of $200 plus. But, I've got about 25 to 50 students to work with.
Double the cost and reduce the numbers on the track and guys that I've got to work with....should be a no brainer.
What will you get? Hard for me to tell you exactly, as there is a great requirement from the student's stand point. Maybe some of my kids can chime in on this.
Crashing is expensive. I think track days cost more. If you do the same thing, or the same bad habbit, it just goes to keep you in the same rhythm. Getting out gets harder and harder.
Crashing probably will happen anyway. Hopefully, you just do it as a minor mistake.
Paul is one of Dave's kids (Dave, my sincere sympathy ;)). We would have liked to go to more of his schools, but it wasn't in the cards ($$$, time of work, etc.) this year.
What made the school worth while was not just the school itself, but the mentoring that Paul received throughout the year. As Paul got faster, things changed.
$400.00 - fewer students and more one on one training. Personally, I think that is fair. Hopefully you will continue to mentor your students as you are now.
I remember looking at the line of people waiting to talk to you during your school and thinking to myself that it must be overwhelming at times. This may be a step in the right direction.
Dawn :)
I would be willing to take you up on at least one of these types of sessions next year. I've nothing but extremely positive comments about your skills and teaching.
You hit on two things that are important to me for my first year. Avoiding the development of bad habit and crashing. The first can be accomplished through instruction, diligence, and patience. The second will happen and I accept that. I would have a very short racing career if I didn't. My only requirement is that I refuse to crash because I don't know what I am doing on the track. Those types of crashes are, in my opinion, avoidable and entirely unnecessary.
QuoteI remember looking at the line of people waiting to talk to you during your school and thinking to myself that it must be overwhelming at times. This may be a step in the right direction.
It is really overwhelming. Even during a race weekend, things are pretty overwhelming. Unfortunately, as a guy that can't get out much because of a job, a business, and because of family, I just can't find anyone to help. It's up to me, and at times Dawn, to strip my tire warmers off at the last second...(Thanks, Dawn).
Dave, since I live 20 min away from you (waukesha) if you need help with something feel free to contact me. As long as you don't mind my incessant questions. ;D
For race weekends I am anticipating on pitting pretty much alone (with my wife helping out) so if you or anyone wants a pit buddy to help out I'll be available next year. I have a lot to learn but at least I am blessed with some common sense.
Look me up at gingerman. I'll be cornerworking there with the wife on the 27th and 28th.
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Chad Berkan
And K3 to repair your crash damage! ;D It just blew my mind that you didn't even bother to QC the thing before you went out and took a second on it! You must have a lot of faith in me!
QuoteAnd K3 to repair your crash damage! ;D It just blew my mind that you didn't even bother to QC the thing before you went out and took a second on it! You must have a lot of faith in me!
Hey, you do good work. Should be good enough for me. Thanks again, and again.
QuoteDave, since I live 20 min away from you (waukesha) if you need help with something feel free to contact me. As long as you don't mind my incessant questions. ;D
For race weekends I am anticipating on pitting pretty much alone (with my wife helping out) so if you or anyone wants a pit buddy to help out I'll be available next year. I have a lot to learn but at least I am blessed with some common sense.
Look me up at gingerman. I'll be cornerworking there with the wife on the 27th and 28th.
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Chad Berkan
It's more the race weekends for me. I hardly have time to work on my bike at home anyway. I just try to surround myself with good products like the Hyperpro stuff I used this year and the help that 4&6 offered. It's been good.
For races, I really need a person dedicated to do things that I need done. Really, I haven't put much focus into my racing for...about five years. The time I've had into my independent school. I can go faster, just a matter of having some opportunity to focus.
I'll be at Gingerman.
MadXX, often times I'm alone or with maybe one person. I'd like to have a pit buddy next season. And if you have the capacity to take an additional bike and stuff, I'd pay you for that. There may be a few weekends where finding a way to get there for me might be tough. I'll do anything I can to help. If you need anything let me know.
I live in Milwaukee, and have a couple friends out in Waukesha, so I'm not too far from you either.
I've done 4 events, and a VRS school, so I think I know how everything works, just not how to go real fast yet. ;D
Thanks for the offer Nate. We may be able to work something out. I plan on spoiling myself and picking up an enclosed trailer this winter so I should have extra room for another bike and equipment next year. My truck only seats 3 (crammed) though so people space could be an issue if you want to bring another along.
give me a call sometime on my cell weeknights after 6pm or on weekends. (no reception at work) 262-391-0427
Chad
QuoteI plan on spoiling myself and picking up an enclosed trailer this winter so I should have extra room for another bike and equipment next year.
Just tell me what you want...
I work at that goofy trailer place across from Jim's Bug Center on St Paul and Prairie... funny hours though.
Dave I used to live in the apartments behind there (Riverwalk) so I know what you are talking about. I was looking for a 7x16 dual axle with electric brakes.
Then I looked at the cost of one of those things along with the fact I cant get a class V hitch for the S-10 and am now hunting for a 6x12/6x14 single axle. Something I can cram 3 bikes and some tools in If I want. Side door = must for ventalation otherwise they turn into an oven. I also need a class IV hitch and acessesories for the truck.
Am looking at purchasing later this year/ early next year. I gotta buy the wife an iron filter/RO system for the house, then the checkbook is mine. ;D
QuoteJust tell me what you want...
I work at that goofy trailer place across from Jim's Bug Center on St Paul and Prairie... funny hours though.
Hey Dave, I MAY be selling my trailer after the season ends and then I will most likely order a new one after selling mine. Maybe I could go thru you and keep my money within the motorcycle roadracing family? ;D
I know from experience that you don't order a trailer during the silly season starting around February unless you want to wait forever and possibly end up with a trailer that isn't quite what you ordered due to them hurrying! (I learned about that one the hard way!) Isn't there a similar silly season starting around this time of the year because of the snowmobile trailer orders? If so, when does it usually slow up for the manufacturers, I would much rather have them taking their time building my trailer than being rushed!
What brands do you deal with? What brand(s) would you suggest for me, based on what I have now? I am leaning toward a Pace, which is what I originally wanted, but they wouldn't build the combination I wanted before!? If they would do it now I would be quite interested in going thru them, if/when I sell mine. With mine being a wedge-nose car hauler and having front and rear ramps I may be able to sell it to somebody wanting it for hauling 4 snowmobiles and/or cars, or whatever? Either way I got an appraisal and it's still worth about 3/4 of what I bought it for and they said it should sell fairly easily in this region of the country.
On the topic of instruction, I like the more personalized approach you have suggested. Since I am PLANING on applying myself next season, and not just showing up and slow pokin' around, I would be very interested in that type of learning atmosphere. (This time I promise I will make it to your school! ;))
QuoteThen I looked at the cost of one of those things along with the fact I cant get a class V hitch for the S-10 and am now hunting for a 6x12/6x14 single axle. Something I can cram 3 bikes and some tools in If I want. Side door = must for ventalation otherwise they turn into an oven. I also need a class IV hitch and acessesories for the truck.
When you're ready... no problem.
The tandem would have beat your S10 to death. 6x14's are albatrosses...you'd never sell it as a single axle. 6x12 would be the way to go. When your ready, give yourself about ten weeks of leaway...we do hitches too.
Quote What brands do you deal with? What brand(s) would you suggest for me, based on what I have now? I am leaning toward a Pace, which is what I originally wanted, but they wouldn't build the combination I wanted before!? If they would do it now I would be quite interested in going thru them, if/when I sell mine. With mine being a wedge-nose car hauler and having front and rear ramps I may be able to sell it to somebody wanting it for hauling 4 snowmobiles and/or cars, or whatever? Either way I got an appraisal and it's still worth about 3/4 of what I bought it for and they said it should sell fairly easily in this region of the country.
On the topic of instruction, I like the more personalized approach you have suggested. Since I am PLANING on applying myself next season, and not just showing up and slow pokin' around, I would be very interested in that type of learning atmosphere. (This time I promise I will make it to your school! ;))
Pace is awesome. Tell me what you want, we can go from there.
Mike, I'll take care of you...want me to "hold on" to your enrollment from September?
whats the price range I would be looking at for each? (hitch and trailer) I need to budget for it.
QuoteMike, I'll take care of you...want me to "hold on" to your enrollment from September?
I don't expect you to do that, but that would be quite exceptional of you if you did! :) I do plan on attending your school in the future, how about an 8 student class at Barber in the spring '04? ;D ;D ;D That place ROCKS! J/K, I would imagine that wouldn't even be an option due to the demand that I would guess there will be for that track, how far away it is, and rental costs, but ya can't blame a guy for dreamin'! (though I would gladly split transportation costs with you if ya wanted a travelin' buddy ;D). You could even put it mid-week before or after the Bike Week events down at Daytona. Now that would be a Hell of a kick off to the season!
Ok, I stopped dreaming now, but I am really looking forward to next year and getting my butt back in gear!
I don't know if I am going to go to Gateway this weekend or not, I am starting to get a guilty concious about the points situation. I am thinking that all I have to do is not show up for this Twin Sprint weekend and some people more deserving than myself (this year) could then have these championships? Maybe I will see you down there this weekend, or maybe not, we'll see? Looks like it's going to rain both days also, that may make the decision for me! (thinking about concrete walls! :-/)
Quotewhats the price range I would be looking at for each? (hitch and trailer) I need to budget for it.
Hitch? Well, that would be less than $200, but I don't have any books here at home, so I can't tell you exactly.
Trailer? Same kind of deal. Figure a 6x12, side door, ramp door, dome light, roof vent, you choose the color...around $3000 even...tosion axle, radial tires, good lights, etc. It would be called a Pace American Cargo Sport.
Mike, I was wondering about the weather. Spooks me a bit too. Hope that Mitch has rains.
ok. I'll probably be getting the hitch sooner than later. You guys do nerf bars too? its the wife's truck and she wants some. :P I'm able to buy these items whenever.
We can get 'em, I believe...
good deal. let me know when is a good time to contact you and a number and I'll give you a call to set this up.
I'll have to wait on the trailer. First item on the list is my leathers, then a trailer.
Monday...10ish...
262-544-1888
Getting us back on topic here...
I have paid, and will continue to pay $400 for *good* instruction. Dave and I have been trading emails for some time about personalized instruction. The problems I have had is that the last 2 times I have paid for an instructional class (the last one being an actual 2-day racing school) it did me little good. Don't get me wrong, the classes were actually excellent for just about everyone else and the student-to-instructor ratio was very low (2 stundents per instructor at the race school I attended). The problem was that I had done enough track days and watched enough people that I had developed fairly good speed and believe I have fairly good habits. I was pretty much the fastest person out on the track outside of the instructors. What I got for my last 2 schools was "you look good out there...keep it up!" That was *not* worth $400.
Lets face it, everyone still has things to learn regardless of their skill level. The top pros probably learn something every time they go out. Therefore, when I sign up for a school there should still be lots of things that the instructors can work on with me. It may not be the normal school type stuff (body positioning, lines, etc), but if it is a good school geared towards giving every student, regardless of skill level, new and valuable information then I would think that school would do well and people would continue to shell out cash for it.
From what I have heard Dave puts on a very good school and in a few weeks I plan to hold him to it. ;)
BTW, Dave, Monte wanted me to tell you that Bonnie is definitely in. He can cut you a company check day of to pay for it. Contact me via email if you want to discuss further (hopefully you received my FAX and we are set to go).
QuoteWhat I got for my last 2 schools was "you look good out there...keep it up!" That was *not* worth $400.
BTW, Dave, Monte wanted me to tell you that Bonnie is definitely in. He can cut you a company check day of to pay for it. Contact me via email if you want to discuss further (hopefully you received my FAX and we are set to go).
AAAAAH! The most hated statement on earth!
"You look good out there." Fine if I'm leading or racing. But not when you're trying to get better!
Sounds good, about Monte. Is he coming out or is her running the gig the same day?
Monte will be there running the event for us. He would like to join in and get some info from you as well but says he wouldn't be able to give our event the attention it requires if he was out on the track for instruction. I imagine he will break his Priller out and join us for a couple of sessions during the day, but most of his time will be spent making sure things go off smoothly.
Sounds good, Larry. We'll keep him in the loop. 8)