Posted without permission... Ike & Stu, if you don't want this here, email me or tell Dawn/etc to take it down, and I'll drop the pics as
well...
pics removed by request of the photographer.
:o
speechless....
:-X
Damn after looking at that i am shock u guys are still walking.
Heath
Glad you guys are still with us!!! That could have been a lot worst then it was. Hopefully you'll make the crash page in RRW
That sent a cold shiver down my spine. Can't imagine what it was like in real time with the sounds. :o
Very thankful you two are both still with us!
Look at Ike go! That gives new meaning to "he was really flying out there today!" :D
Glad you guys are both okay...scary stuff. By the way, I WON'T be showing this thread to the wife. ;)
Holy crap!
Where/when did this happen? I don't recognize the track.
QuoteHoly crap!
Where/when did this happen? I don't recognize the track.
Barber last month
Pics removed by request of photographer... :-/
Yeah....
I just came across this thread on the WERA board...
http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33819
Pretty interesting debate.
Dawn
lol... Geez, people sure do get bent out of shape with the issue eh?
Vicki called me and asked me to take them down. I agreed, but requested an explanation which she gladly provided. (feel free to ask her about it if you want to know what it was)
I could easily have kept them up until she took me to court and fought it out with my lawyers, but the ethical thing to do was to remove the pics since they weren't mine to begin with.
People need to put the shoe on the other foot before they get bent out of shape. I've been in legal issues over people taking stuff of MINE from my sites and passing them off for sale, etc....
I have no problem with honoring Vicki's request.
If the pictures were on a web site...and all you did was point people to them...how could she get bent over that one?
If you're going to post pics on the web you better realize that someone could post a link and then you've got millions of people coming to your web site.
Why put them on the web where it's so easy to copy pictures. I hope she puts the copyright symbol and her name on this pics or there going to end up with someone elses name on them.
What was the reason anyhow...
I'm glad I saved them this morning ;D I knew that they would not be up there by this afternoon :-/
don't be surprised the pics will be up tomorrow morning on a offshore website free account that belongs to no one you can sue to take them down...
She (the photographer) never posted them publicly.
The website where the pics were posted is mine.
I was emailed the pictures, and posted them.
In any event, *I* didn't own the pics, so I took them down. Do I still have a copy? Well, subpoena me and find out. Will I share them (if I have them)? No. Why? Because I was asked not to...
What was the reason? Ask Vicki vsulpy@aol.com
LOL!!!
That thread on the WERA board is five pages long now.....
Dawn :)
Those must have been one hell of a set of pictures. One would have thought they were of Pamela and Tommy Lee, err.uhmm, crashing. :D
Quotedon't be surprised the pics will be up tomorrow morning on a offshore website free account that belongs to no one you can sue to take them down...
hehe.. maybe even Limewire/Kazaa :)
That WERA thing is entirely my fault.
Oh well.
Sorry about that.
When I came across them I was like - "wow what a crash!"
then I saw 666 and it became outright amazing having heard so much from Stu about the crash. His descriptions do nothing compared to those pics.
Not to mention he really did not know what happened!
Guess we will have to wait for RRW to publish them and for her to let them be released.
Actually it's up to 7 pages on the WERA board. A lot of interesting discussions concerning rights etc. The bottom line is I didn't give away the rights to those pics so they are mine. I was trying to get them published in RRW so that no only the CCS and WERA people could see them but so everyone can see them. My brother took the pics and they are awesome. And I appreciate you guys taking them off the site. Hopefully JU will publish them, don't know now since they got out. We'll just have to wait and see....
QuoteHopefully JU will publish them, don't know now since they got out. We'll just have to wait and see....
I don't think that will have any effect on them being published.
Jack's shot series of Purk's spectacular hi-side at Road America was on the net well before being published...
QuoteThe bottom line is I didn't give away the rights to those pics so they are mine. My brother took the pics and they are awesome.
I'm sorry but if your brother took the pictures then they legally aren't yours anyway. When you send out pictures to people and they don't have a copyright symbol and your name on the picture you are asking for trouble.
Bottom line is that if your brother took them then they weren't yours to begin with.
QuoteI'm sorry but if your brother took the pictures then they legally aren't yours anyway. When you send out pictures to people and they don't have a copyright symbol and your name on the picture you are asking for trouble.
Bottom line is that if your brother took them then they weren't yours to begin with.
Well but if her brother was working under VHS Photography at the time, then wouldn't the pictures technically be the property of VHS Photography? And since Vicky owns VHS Photography, that would sorta make them hers...
Hopefully she is legit in calling herself a business. You know, license, federal tax id#, etc.etc.
She's just pissed that she's got some super spectacular pics and they got leaked. She should have never shown them to anyone and just sent them off to be published.
Greed is a terrible thing.
QuoteHopefully she is legit in calling herself a business. You know, license, federal tax id#, etc.etc.
She's just pissed that she's got some super spectacular pics and they got leaked. She should have never shown them to anyone and just sent them off to be published.
Greed is a terrible thing.
SHe is VERY Legit.. and yes her brother DOES work for VHS i was there when they were taken and they do belong to her and if you want to know and see why...go ready the WERA board this has been talked about for 7 pages now. If everyone would just chioll for a little bit they would get published and everyone could see them.....
QuoteGreed is a terrible thing.
How many pictures does a race photographer take before they catch a wreck like Ike's? I bet a coulpe thousand. Greed my a$$! :P
QuoteGreed is a terrible thing.
Yeah right, don't spend the $100 all in one place Vicki. Sheesh, get a life.
and all her reasonings for not wanting the pics shown are not really making much sense.
She say she not want to profit from it. well not like we are going to pay $5 each to see those photos right?
second, she says it hurts her exposure. How about we distribute those photos with her name address and copyright included? Wouldn't that be more exposure that we all know she took it.
third. Such a pic does not really reflect her worksmanship or skill or talent, she just was incredibly lucky (and stu and ike incredibly unlucky) to have captured the wreck. Exposure for what?
and if I had taken teh pics, I would have give the film, every copy and whatever else I have to stu and ike and let them profit/expose/do whatever they wish with them. I would just ask them to tell people I took them. and pics would belong to them, no charge. if the pics can make some $$$, shouldn't it go to stu and ike so they can recover sooner?
I don't know what she is in for, but it just seems ... wrong.
oh well, I guess there are better photographers out there right? by all means.
she didn't even take the pics.
QuoteHow many pictures does a race photographer take before they catch a wreck like Ike's? I bet a coulpe thousand. Greed my a$$! :P
LOL..you are right about one thing...there is no greed there...but i work with Vicki alot and i can tell you between her and her brother they take about 10,000 pics a weekend....
It is kind of ironic that these are pix of a CCS crash.
Kind of like what you said r6_philly, Stu and Ike could stop the release/publishing of the photos easily.
Even though you sign away your image to CCS/WERA, you can still sue for negligence and intentional infliction of emotional distress.
No photographer in their right mind would risk that for a $500 rights deal with that looming. Few publishers would either.
QuoteYeah right, don't spend the $100 all in one place Vicki. Sheesh, get a life.
Hey Jack, I'm curious...
Can I post a pic I bought from you on my website?
A Yes or No will do. I don't want to turn the discussion into into a seven page thread about copyright laws :)
Thanks!
QuoteHey Jack, I'm curious...
Can I post a pic I bought from you on my website?
A Yes or No will do. I don't want to turn the discussion into into a seven page thread about copyright laws :)
Thanks!
LOL! ;D
From my website:
QuoteEven though I retain the rights to the photo, you're still welcome to share the digital images you purchased with your family and friends. If you post them on a Web site, I would appreciate giving SliderPhoto.com credit for the photo.
Dang, guess I wont get 7 pages now. ::) :P
Wow, I don't understand all the hostility towards Vicki. You guys think she's getting rich? That's funny. I still hear the echo from a few years ago... Such and such use to show up and take photos but he doesn't come round here anymore... I wonder why...
I said the same thing on the WERA board....
Ya know, this has really been an educational thread. I never threatened to sue anyone, I just asked that they be taken off the site because they are mine and were put up without my permission. What is the big deal? Yes I talked to Stu and Ike and they both wanted the pics in RRW. And yes Ike did come back to the track THAT DAY and saw the pics. And no one was even allowed to see the pics until we knew for sure that both guys were going to be ok. If the guys weren't ok, the pictures would never be shown. Ever. Most of the people on this board know me and know me well. Don't act like I've don't know what it cost to race or haven't spent a ton of money on race equipment. My husband has been riding and racing for at least five years. And I'm not talking just a couple races a year. He raced all the time. Two organizations. We spent wads of money on race stuff. That's how I started taking pics. That's how I met most of the racers I know now. Then I started taking AMA pics along with WERA and CCS and track days. I work hard and my prices are comparable if not lower than most. I don't believe in screwing the racer as I KNOW they don't have a lot of money. There have been many times when I've given pics to racers who I knew only had enough money for food. There are times when I've fed the racers or let them stay in my camper and fed them. There are times when I've helped pack up trailers. There are times when I've left a race to spend the time at the hospital with injured friends and family (husband and Brian Livengood are a couple). So don't think I'm in it for the money. If that was the case I would charge up the ying yang, which I don't. When you include travel time, gas, food, supplies, etc., it adds up. Not to mention the cost of my equipment. One of my lenses alone cost as much as your race bike. So don't say I'm in it for the money. As Mongo said, we barely break even. Why do we do it? I do it because I have a great time. I get to see all my friends and I get to take some great shots of them that I know they will like. I stand out in 103 degree heat all day long lugging my stuff up hills, down hills, stand in the rain, yada, yada, yada to try and get some shots you guys will like. I am no Brain Nelson and I'm no Ryan S. (they are the bombs and gods of photography) but I do my best to make you happy. I'm more than willing to give releases if asked, never had a problem with it and never will. Every time someone has asked they have gotten. I've also corner worked at several races making sure that everything is safe for you on the track. I've been a photographer, spectator, racers wife, racer's friend, etc. I've watched my friends get hurt and I've watched my friends die. I've been to funerals of my friends and I've cried. I've given all the pics I have to their families and friends just because I felt it was the right thing to do. I'm friends with all the other photographers....they are all awesome and none of us are trying to screw anyone. We do it because we enjoy it and we enjoy seeing your face when we have a really awesome shot. You get your kicks off of racing, I get it off of getting a great shot. You bitch about crash pics but whats the first question out of your mouth when you crash in front of me? "Did you get that?" When the rider doesn't get up, I stop taking pics. EVERYTIME you guys and gals get on the track I pray that everyone comes in safely. The ones that know me, truely know me, have come to my support. It's the ones that don't know me that question my ethics and morals. Come over to my trailer sometime and say hi and introduce yourself. You'll find that I'm not a bad person.....
And yeah, and I'm thinking of just walking away. I can take pics of other things...I don't need to be attacked by people who don't know the circumstances or the laws....
Enough on this subject.....
Topic has been locked.
Dawn
Alright....
At the request of another, I have unlocked the topic. Sorry if I offended anyone. Seven pages on the WERA board... Where does it end?
Personally I appreciate the job that the photographer's do, I wish I had more money to spend with them, but, we're racers so you know what that means..... No wonder why Jack does all the track days instead. :-/
Keep it nice, and keep it civil. That's all I am asking. Feel free to PM me if need be.
Thanks!
Dawn
QuoteAnd yeah, and I'm thinking of just walking away. I can take pics of other things...I don't need to be attacked by people who don't know the circumstances or the laws....
You do that and you will have to deal with me and i know you don't want that ;D
I've had a horrible year. Blown motors, bent frames, wasted suspensions ruined riding gear... There's been no end to it. I don't think I've come home from a race this year with my program intact. I don't have anywhere near the money required to laugh off this kind of luck.
At one point, I was damn near ready to quit. I mean enough is enough! A friend lead me to Slider Jack's trailer, and I found the hero shot among his pics of me. It made me feel so cool that my scowl turned almost into a grin. I bought two copys and went back to repair my bike. Again.
STOP PICKING ON THE PHOTOGRAPHERS!
Show me...
For everyone on here either for or against any of this, before you spout off about laws ("you don't own that picture", "you need a copyright symbol", etc), I want you to show it to me...
People are mixing ethics with laws, and are often times completely wrong.
Get your facts straight before you start throwing stones... That's all I ask...
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wccc
Go to this link, it has all the info...
Thanks Vicki. That was the exact point...
People get so spun up in the "are you sure", "you need to do this", "you need to get this permission", etc etc etc, but they do it while ill-informed...
I'll step off the soap-box now...
Regardless of the legality, it seems Vicki has been more than reasonable. She got some incredible pics (whether she or her brother took them is irrelevant) and they accidentally got out early. She politely asked that they be removed and Jeff honored that request. Seems to me like both acted in respectful, adult manner.
IMHO
QuoteThanks Vicki. That was the exact point...
People get so spun up in the "are you sure", "you need to do this", "you need to get this permission", etc etc etc, but they do it while ill-informed...
I'll step off the soap-box now...
Kiss, kiss ;)
I agree with Jef4y. Throughout the entire WERA discussion, people kept saying "Wrong" "No you're wrong!" "Thats not true" But wouldn't back it up with real info. A couple people FINALLY did some research, but it's no wonder things go on so long there. ::)
Quoteit's no wonder things go on so long there. ::)
Yeah, I mean afterall it only took us 3 pages to get there :P
I think the people that are complaining and argueing about copyrighting, why not get my permission, etc.. on the photos, are the ones who don't get their picture taken often
I think they're just jealous. :D
There you go....
Now you did it.....
FOUR pages.... >:( ;) :D ;D
Just teasing.
Dawn :)
I just had to :)
QuoteYeah, I mean afterall it only took us 3 pages to get there :P
So are you saying that CCS is faster than WERA?
I think you are!
12 pages here we come.......
I don't know about you guys but I'm headed for the tracks..... ;D. I guess I'll see ya'll up at VIR!
>:(
BOY!!!!, I tell ya!,
1. I dont care who it is! leave Vicki alone, NOW, or you deal with ME !
I'ts ME, Ike, and my new friend, Stu, whom should be the ones complaining.. (well, actually i dont know for sure if Stu wanted the pics or not) But I was extremely impatient (that's good wording on my part, trust me) with the notion that I had to wait some kind of bullcrap(oops) "o-kay" before i could even purchase my own photos (ok, photos taken of me) (and yes it is a "squeeze" for me to buy photos AND RACE on my budget!) .... HOWEVER, It was out of my hands and i had no choice but to wait for Vicki and I guess "the powers that be" to decide I could have them,... I took the bottom line, GREEDY for the thought of making the RRW CRASH PAGE, I waited, as maturely as i could, and hoped.......
she sold em to me, WOW!!!! :o :o :o :o :o......
I e-mailed a couple to a few friends (without asking Vicki, my bad, and without telling anyone not to post em, my bad #2) (NOT INTENTIONAL, Vicki, you can blame me, and hopefully forgive me, but im still hoping on JU ;D)
so everyone relax, there was an issue with the sanctioning body, the photographer and the publisher, or something or nother, BUT It's solved now, HEY, when is the next RRW to be released? Is JU on here?
:D
IKE...
I dont think Vicki should ever have taken heat for this, bc It doesnt matter who it is, If youre threatened legal action, OR EVEN if its mentioned (i'm not saying which happened, bc i dont know or care) but it should get your attention, and it should get cleared up, you know, something to make all parties involved happy... no real big deal.
even tho, some of you have made good points, bc I have personally seen photo's posted before showing up in publication, and i think the fact that a lot of US (me too) speak strongly, dramaticly, and "hot and heavy" without the luxury of having all of the facts.
(thats why im divorced, by the way)(she would just YAP!) (and yes, I'm happy now ;D ;))
Ive been "taken away" by this racing community and all the friends ive made since starting, and It really doesnt compare to any other environment that Ive seen in 38,..uh... thirty some odd years...
LETS STAY COOL AND LOOK OUT FOR EACH OTHER.....
FOWTY
RRW --- I got my copy today and flipped hurredly to the crash page. Nope, not this month. :-/ Guess the legal stuff didn't get solved in time. Next month. :)
Alright problem solved. I do think wera is slower thogh, I have heard something like they dont allow spectataors and they only race with their group? Is that true? They cant be that ashamed of their "lack of speed thing", Can they? : :-*
Ike, I'm not mad at you! I understand your zealousness to show yourself flying through the air. The pics were so great I'm sure JU will publish them anyway. Of course it took awhile to get the ok to send them so it will probably be in the next issue. Keep your fingers crossed and I want an autographed issue from both you and Stu! LOL.
Vicki
You Got It, Schweetie ;D .....
Thanks!