I need new knee sliders so I was wondering if CCS would allow them?
Where you born stupid or this is a recent problem?? You want to throw sparks midcorner, maybe breaking the concentration of someone behind you, maybe enough to cause them to crash?? Either out-grow the "Mommy Mommy look at me" phase or get off the track.
That's your first post, to come and talk sh!t. I see that you're going to be one of those lurkers that only come to flame someone. Well you can just :-* my AS$. >:(
And what makes you think you can see any sparks during the day anyway? So far no one has gone off the track when I grind my foot-pegs.
I wanted something to last and would be fun on the street at NIGHT.
BTW, you need to keep your eyes off the rider and on the track. Stupid
Well let's see, first off you can see sparks in the daytime, I've had guys with titanium cans crash in front of me, very visible. Second, you're foot pegs are probably aluminum, so no sparks. Third, if I'm following a guy his knee is very close to the same piece of track I'm watching. He plops his knee down no way I'm going to avoid seeing the result.
No, Ti knee sliders aren't going to cause many crashes, but why even go there? They have no upside. In case you haven't noticed, racing is a serious sport. We've lost 5 racers/track riders in the last 4 weeks. I've personally been at the track when 2 guys have died and 2 have been permanently paralyzed. My tolerance for street squids who show more concern for looking cool than they do for the safety of their fellow races is pretty damn low.
Well let's see, first off you can see sparks in the daytime, I've had guys with titanium cans crash in front of me, very visible. Second, you're foot pegs are probably aluminum, so no sparks. Third, if I'm following a guy his knee is very close to the same piece of track I'm watching. He plops his knee down no way I'm going to avoid seeing the result.
No, Ti knee sliders aren't going to cause many crashes, but why even go there? They have no upside. In case you haven't noticed, racing is a serious sport. We've lost 5 racers/track riders in the last 4 weeks. I've personally been at the track when 2 guys have died and 2 have been permanently paralyzed. My tolerance for street squids who show more concern for looking cool than they do for the safety of their fellow races is pretty damn low.
Well then, that's all you had to say. You didn't have to come out and attack me like that.
Some WSB riders use titanium toe sliders so I thought I would ask about CCS. I have had this same question posed to me and my initial thought was no, they probably won't. It might not be safe.
I take riding seriously both on and off the track. And I would never endanger anyone on the track while racing. If I come across a rider that wants to win at any cost, I just let him go. I don't need to win that badly. Rest assure you won't find anyone being more careful out there than I.
I am also sadden by the lost of fellow racers. It is very tragic and my prayers go out to those families and friends that have lost a love one. And if you lost someone, I am very sorry.
IMHO, there should not be any motorcycle races at Daytona. It's just not a safe track. It was not designed for us.
So don't go out assuming anything about people when you have no idea whom there are. You know what they say when you assume don't you?
BTW, I got your second post the first time.
Sorry about the tone of my posts, I guess you just really pushed a button. I should of thought for a minute instead of flying off the handle. You're right about the consequences of "assume". :)
Well two things one knee sliders or toe sliders containing metal are not legal in CCS events period.
2nd the death at Daytona this fall had nothing to do with it being at Daytona it had to do with inattention.
by the way Who is Rich Desmond? ::) :o :P ;D
No problem, I guess I had it coming somewhat.
If it wasn't for one of the WSB rider I saw use titanium toe sliders, I would not have asked about the knee slider.
I think if was Ben Boz that using them.
Quote2nd the death at Daytona this fall had nothing to do with it being at Daytona it had to do with inattention.
This time around. What is the number of rider fatalities in Daytona's history? Isn't in the 20's? That's way too many. I'd much rather have the Daytona event moved to a facility like VIR.
Since I have my answer, we can end this thread. And none too soon.
Not to minimize the safety concerns of tracks like Daytona but there has "only" been 8 deaths at Daytona; 33 total for all types of racing with most being car racing. Not many all things considered for a track that has been around for as long as it has and the level of competition it hosts. It may be more luck or maybe a level of respect that racers give the walls but most racers do not think about crashing they push all the way to the limit. How many have died at other tracks?
Never been to VIR but the stats for Oct do not look promising to get the racing all in daylight wise and the grid sizes would be more limited due to track width/length.
I'll be going back next year and bringing some of the best racers with me again.
1. Rich did a great job of telling you how stupid the idea of Tit Pucks were.
2. RRW will be having a knee puck shootout in it's print mag in the next couple of months. Read it, then determine what pucks to get.
I have had people in front of me ( On track days) with Ti pucks, and really, there is VERY little danger of scaring the guy behind you. If anything, it is ammusing. Think of it, what is more alarming/alerting? Some sparks where you KNOW there is no frame to drag, or some one lighing up the rear tire on exit?
WAY too much is made of the dangers of the evil Ti pucks.
BTW...I believe it was Troy Bayliss useing them (Ti Toes) in WSB....and didn't make anyone crash either come to think of it.
You're gonna compare WSB to CCS? ::) Oi vay!
It's not the least bit "amusing", it's distracting and foolish. Do your squid "look at me" shit elsewhere.
Why don't you Fu*ken bight me!! If you get distracted buy some sparks, then maybe you don't belong on the damn track.
I have also noticed that most people that like to use the term "squid", turn out to be people that can't ride worth a crap anyway.
But what can I expect, you're probably one those " I only come out to give people a rash of sh!t but never have anything positive to add" pin heads.
Ricky,
I've got a couple Regional championships and numerous podium finishes over my 5 years of club racing, and YES, I would absolutely be distracted.
And, try not to be such an ass in your posts, ok? Try to show some dignity and respect for yourself and especially to the other listers.
There will come a point where you will need someone's help, and all that someone will remember is how you told them to "f*cking kiss your ass". Comprendo?
Clean it up, or take a hike.
QuoteWhy don't you Fu*ken bight me!! If you get distracted buy some sparks, then maybe you don't belong on the damn track.
I have also noticed that most people that like to use the term "squid", turn out to be people that can't ride worth a crap anyway.
But what can I expect, you're probably one those " I only come out to give people a rash of sh!t but never have anything positive to add" pin heads.
Yeah well, don't dish it out if you can't take it. I'm not the one insulting people and calling them names. If you call that helping then keep it to you're self. All I asked was a simple question. A yes or no answer would have sufficed. Maybe it was a squidy post, but that doesn't call you people to get personal. Sorry, but I don't take that from anyone in person and I'm sure as hell not going to take it form some guy on a message board. If you call me, then out I'll come.
Now is this simple enough for you.
Why yes... 'Simple' is the perfect word to describe you.
Again, tone it down, as you've gotten way too excited for your (notice the correct spelling of 'your') own good.
QuoteYeah well, don't dish it out if you can't take it. I'm not the one insulting people and calling them names. If you call that helping then keep it to you're self. All I asked was a simple question. A yes or no answer would have sufficed. Maybe it was a squidy post, but that doesn't call you people to get personal. Sorry, but I don't take that from anyone in person and I'm sure as hell not going to take it form some guy on a message board. If you call me, then out I'll come.
Now is this simple enough for you.
QuoteI have also noticed that most people that like to use the term "squid", turn out to be people that can't ride worth a crap anyway.
you have had some very fine riders respond to you and in a rather civil manner.
You guys are totally overheating over something that isn't worth it. I've used "sparkies" on occasion at track days just for fun and cool pictures. Most guys who had objections only had them until they found themselves following me. then they realize it's no big deal. I've followed guys throwing sparks myself. I have to say, unless somebody brings pucks that are shooting flames, you'd have to be really jumpy to get distracted into crashing. I've had rocks thrown at me from the turn 3 gravel at Summit Point a few times. That's a hell of a lot more distracting than any sparks I've seen. I've raced in situations where the sun glare forced me to rely on my knowledge of a racetrack and trust that by using the same inputs, I would follow the same line, as I could barely see where I was going. That was a hell of a lot more dangerous/distracting than any sparks i've seen.
That said, i agree that there is absolutely no upside to using them. If there is even the slightest chance that someone would get hurt, I won't use them. The guys at my club konw I use them, and expect it. I have never used them on race weekends because you meet new racers every weekend, and they don't know what to expect when they get behind you for the first time.
In conclusion, I think you guys need to chill. It's not worth fighting over. There are plenty more reasons to fight. Those who also hang out on the WERA board know that. ;D
i have noticed that i go through my toesliders fairly quickly and am already on my second pair. i know troy corser uses those titanium ones and i think i need them too if i want to look as cool as mr corser. in fact, i think when i will be wearing these sparkorama sliders i will go as fast as the world superbike boyz. now that i have explained myself you will all understand that in order for me to win races and look cool i will have to throw sparks. my next item on my race agenda is: do i use sandpaper to scrub my tires in?
just kiddin'. this is absolutely not a topic to get excited about. too bad you guys got so hot and bothered.
corien
Imagine a Solo 20. Suppose a couple of the leaders are wearing 'Sparkies'. Suppose you're 3rd, and the lead pack comes upon a lapper, we'll call him Ricky for now. Ricky isn't all that experienced, and suddenly two guys pass him at once, just as one of the passers throws out his knee and a sweet plume of sparks erupts.
Ricky, already disheveled by the double pass, now focuses intently on the pretty display.
Would you want to try and pass him at this point? He's probably already stood the bike up a couple times, now his focus is completely shot.
It's not about the good guys wearing them, it's about safety, and there's just no place in racing for anything that can further distract any racer.
Have you ever seen the photographers flash bulbs on overcast days? That bugs me and it's way off track.
:DHell yeah! Hey if he stood up, he couldn't have gotten a drive out of that last corner. The way I see it, The guys with the sparkies just saved me a good 1/4 second ;D
Seriously, Little Ricky is going to be much more freaked by 2 leaders passing him at once, and laying down some "sweet" black lines in front of him to worry about a couple of sparks.
All in all, it's really not that big of deal. I have been at track days when several riders had them, and not 1 person complianed.
I have ferrous bolts on one of my bikes for footpeg feelers....should those be banned as well? They do the SAME thing.
I'm not looking to piss anyone off here....just giving my $.02 on the idea that these things are really all that freaky. ;)
"...all the freaky", huh?
I think I'm too old to keep up with the lingo, let alone the sparks in my face.
:o Wow!!! 1 little typo and the sarcasm comes out.
Hey, just 'cus I'm faster than you doesn't mean we can't be friends. ;D
What do ya mean too old... I'm 33!
QuoteIt's not the least bit "amusing", it's distracting and foolish. Do your squid "look at me" shit elsewhere.
I agree that TI pucks are distracting, I don't mind them on trackdays, but for practice and race days they are definatley out!!
distraction is the game sometimes
i have seed d1ld0s hanhing off handle bars
nekked girls on tailsections
cornerworkers flashing, (at carolinaand Barber)
people putting their hand up braking for t1
teamates crashing
if i am on that day, i dont notice, if i am off, it reminds me to think about riding, nothing else
As Eric said, they arent allowed in CCS period.
Us that do cornerwork WILL call you in if we see sparking sliders. You will be black flagged and brought in. Unlike hard parts that touch down, you're knee is on the ground longer and out farther. We spot that rather easily. Hard parts usually only touch for a split second. Also think about this, what if its ultra dry out and one of those sparks start a grass fire? More than likely the sessions are over until thats taken care of. Granted thats a long shot scenario, but food to think about.
BTW I've had someone in front of me during a track day with those. Didnt bother me nor did teh flash photography going on around the track.
I used the hard leather pucks for almost an entire season. There is also a brand named ARI (or something similar to that) that are hard as hell, but I am convinced they are cursed and therefore stay as far away from them as I can! ;D
YES, they are legal according to CCS staff I asked at Miam -Homestead bacause they were all I had with me and I used them, nobody wrecked behind me, or was bothered in any way. Bundch of FN crybabies goddamn!
Intuitive makes pucks out of the same stuff as sliders. They glide, they are sorta quiet, and they last forever.
QuoteYES, they are legal according to CCS staff I asked at Miam -Homestead bacause they were all I had with me and I used them, nobody wrecked behind me, or was bothered in any way. Bundch of FN crybabies goddamn!
But yet Eric stated they are illegal and he's the director of competition for CCS. Sounds more like the staff at Miami didnt care if they were used or not.
QuoteI used the hard leather pucks for almost an entire season. There is also a brand named ARI (or something similar to that) that are hard as hell, but I am convinced they are cursed and therefore stay as far away from them as I can! ;D
I wouldn't say it's the entire brand, only that one set (which I still hold under lock & key)... Anyone who has touched them has crashed within the next race day...
And to add to the thread.... What ever happened to reading the rule book... This issue is addressed clearly there. There really isn't much room for interpretation.
If the WSB guys run sparkies, great. Ante up and run with them... :-*
QuoteI wouldn't say it's the entire brand, only that one set (which I still hold under lock & key)... Anyone who has touched them has crashed within the next race day...
If I see those things again I'm gonna crash in the paddock before I go out and race just to get it over with..
Perhaps if people actually took the time to read the rule book.
5.1.5 Knee and toe sliders that emit sparks are prohibited.
A draft copy of the 2006 rulebook
http://www.ccsracing.us/forms/2006/2006%20Rulebook.pdf
I guess I am more alarmed from racers saying it is too much of a distraction and might cause crashes. If you are looking at a guy's knee down on the deck while in a corner you are looking in the wrong place to begin with.
I have no problem with CCS out-lawing them. Rules are rules and it makes no difference with me. But to say that they are a huge distraction is a bit over board IMO. I am more alarmed with some of the responses stating that Ti-sliders represent such a distraction that could lead to an increase in crashes and a decrease in safety. If you are that freaked out about something this minute I question you being on the track in the first place.
Wait a minute gang, in getting all worked up in our discussion on just how squidly a racer is allowed to be we have overlooked a much bigger issue. Go back to Eric's question "Who is Rich Desmond". I remember that we never got a proper answer several years ago when this came up with both CMRA and WERA. Is this one of those mysteries, like the grassy knoll, that may be difficult to resolve? Just who actually is "Rich Desmond"? Will we go to our graves wondering?
Sparky knee pucks are just a diversion. It's time to look behind the curtain!
Garth,
Ever race with someone dragging hard parts? Ever have that someone crash right in front of you after going through 3 or 4 turns of dragging hard parts?
It becomes a concern and distraction... And it's a valid one...
But the entire discussion is moot as (a) it's against the rules which are in place, and (b) we have yet to determine the identity of Rich Desmond.
QuoteI guess I am more alarmed from racers saying it is too much of a distraction and might cause crashes. If you are looking at a guy's knee down on the deck while in a corner you are looking in the wrong place to begin with.
I would think thats the point of the rule... your NOT looking there... sparkysparky... now you are, even for a blink, not focusing where you should. There was a crash at Gateway last season. An experienced guy closed in on another on T8 (service road). the other guy check up and touched his brakes, hadnt disconnected his brake light... the experienced guy lost focus for a tic seeing something unexpected and ended up in the hospital. I understand all points but I think its a bit bold to tell me or anyone else what is and is not distracting! In my head, something unexpected is distracting... NOW, just where are these flashing cornerworkers you speak of? ;D
Why did this thread come back after a 4-year hiatus? ??? :)
QuoteWhy did this thread come back after a 4-year hiatus? ??? :)
Thank you! I thought I was the only one seeing the origination date of this thread!
QuoteGarth,
Ever race with someone dragging hard parts? Ever have that someone crash right in front of you after going through 3 or 4 turns of dragging hard parts?
It becomes a concern and distraction... And it's a valid one...
Your're joking right. ???
QuoteI would think thats the point of the rule... your NOT looking there... sparkysparky... now you are, even for a blink, not focusing where you should. There was a crash at Gateway last season. An experienced guy closed in on another on T8 (service road). the other guy check up and touched his brakes, hadnt disconnected his brake light... the experienced guy lost focus for a tic seeing something unexpected and ended up in the hospital. I understand all points but I think its a bit bold to tell me or anyone else what is and is not distracting! In my head, something unexpected is distracting... NOW, just where are these flashing cornerworkers you speak of? ;D
I'm sorry to hear this. Not to make light of the situation (no Pun) if again if anyone is that easily distracted I have to question their skill level either that or they are riding over their limit to begin with.
QuoteI'm sorry to hear this. Not to make light of the situation (no Pun) if again if anyone is that easily distracted I have to question their skill level either that or they are riding over their limit to begin with.
I followed rider with sparking knee pucks, I discovered it when the sparks hit my face shield. I found that somewhat distracting.
2001?!?!
::)
Last year at Blackhawk one weekend there was a hot blonde standing along the pits with a bikini top on.
....THAT's distracting.
I used to try and follow the fastest guy around the track...just before I passed em ;)...during practice and make note of where the sparks flew (which corners) and set my bike's geometry to compensate for off-camber situations and extreme lean angles. It helped. I remember talking to Shawn Conrad about it a couple years back and I told him that I would gain on him in only one corner and that he was scraping in that corner. The next session he pulled away from me ever so slightly and no longer drug his foot peg! Apparently it slowed him down enough to raise his rear ride height and add a little spring. Observation skills; just one of my secrets to success..LOL! Sparks are definately a distraction, but they are also good indicators for track conditions. So I say: watch the sparks and listen for the grinding...it may shave a tenth or two off your lap time. Also, stop looking at corner workers until it is appropriate to do so!
Just some thoughts so don't get pi$$y!
BT.
What about flames out the exhaust?
QuoteWhat about flames out the exhaust?
That's illegal in 17 states.
That's illegal in 17 states.
That's why WSBK won't be coming to the states.
QuoteThat's illegal in 17 states.
Only on public thoroughfares and roads.
But kids, don't try it at home anyway 8)
QuoteOnly on public thoroughfares and roads.
No, it's 43 states for public roads. Racetracks in 17 states.
i THINK THE original question has been answered. Now, can't we all just get along!?? Kiss and make up.