We are, because we'll race at any track that'll let us on......as long as they say we can race on it, no matter how terrible and unsafe it is, we'll do it in a heart beat. Why do we keep going to all these unsafe tracks? We can't help ourselves right? B. S.
If the racers don't show up to that particular track, that track cannot hold a race that day. And we won't come back to that track until we think it's safe enough to race on. That's all their is to it. No racers, no race, no money for them. But you know what, it'll never happen. They can have potholes and oil spouts and big walls in every turn on every track that's on the schedule and we'll show up and race. We'll complain and scream the whole time we're there, but we'll still race and test our leathers and helmet, because we are feans and junkies and we just can't help it. Oh yeah, we crash and get hurt on the so called safe tracks too, you know the ones that don't have walls, it just seems way more often that we notice it more on the unsafe tracks. I wonder why? Must be those walls. Just gotta be those walls that they built to stop speeding out of control 3,000 pound race cars. And uh, oh if one of those motorcycle roadracing guys hits that wall? "Well, I wouldn't worry about that if I were you, we'll deal with that when it happens".
Well, it happened AGAIN for 1'000th time this past weekend. And it seems like everytime someone hits one those walls that they get hurt really bad or they die. Look back and think for a minute about how many roadracers that have hit walls and have been hurt or killed. Nuff said. If we don't stop this madness soon, the next time someone crashes and hits a wall that kills or hurts them badly, it just might be you.
Blaze Crew is praying for a speedy recovery for you Auther.
Tez
ex#3
I was told I would likely have died if they didn't move the wall back about 30 feet in the winter (at summit point). I still was seriously injured, but recovered.
Should we boycot some race tracks next year? Start the awareness now and get united so everyone will be on board? What do you all think, we really should unite and do something about safety.
The way I look at it is they need us, We don't need them. Granted you could boycott a unsafe track, which there are a few , but you will still have a few losers who would take advantage of it for the points. If we could stick together we could make a difference it's just a matter of getting the word out. I think it's ridiculous how serious some people take club racing. I'm out there to have fun , not risk serious injury over a stupid $5 trophy. This isn't the AMA or world superbike , we don't get paid for this and all of us have to go to work on Monday. So until we get organized there will be more deaths and other serious injuries. Ok I'll get off my soapbox now. :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
I was at Heartland Park this weekend. I will attempt to give my best opinion on the place.
On the plus side, Heartland is probably the most challenging racetrack I've ever run. It has high speed sweepers, full-stop-then wheelie corners, blind, uphill, downhill... You name it! The series of corners that lead onto the drag strip are sublime. Anyone who has ridden Deal's Gap will feel right at home with them. I'd like to meet the guy who designed that track and shake his hand.
On the minus side: Walls and bumps. That is the worst pavement I've ever raced on; much worse than Hallett, the old Blackhawk, or Grattan. It is practically below the minimum standard required to call it pavement. Then there are walls everywhere, and always waaaay too close. Racing in a construction zone would be no less risky.
People would scream "Pave that track!" Well, that costs money. The Irwin famly just bought the place in Febuary. These are the same people who own Blackhawk, and they have proven themselves to be 100% about bike racers and their safety. Knowing the Irwins, I truly believe that over a period of years Heartland Park will become one of the best tracks in the country.
How do we get there from here? First, move the damn walls! There is an unbelievable amount of empty space at Heartland, and moving the walls two to three times farther back would be easily possible in many places. Perhaps there need to be gravel traps in certain corners. We racers hate them, but they can really help get a rider stopped before he hits something solid. Certain areas will only be made safe by swaddling them with lots and lots of air fencing. This work would cost a good bit of money, and it would be far more important than pavement.
But what about pavement? According to reports, pavement is what most likely induced the slapper that led to Art Wagner's tragic wreck. My bike was slapping like a wild thing there and at several other places on the track. It was the worst pavement I've raced on in my life. OK! Let's boycott Topeka until it's fixed!
Think about that for a minute. The Irwins probably mortaged Blackhawk to the hilt to buy Heartland Park. Without racers they probably won't be able to pay the rent, much less fix the track. Boycotting Topeka could cost us Blackhawk. Catch 22? Damn straight. I don't have any answers. But Tez is right about one thing. If time and money weren't in the mix, I'd still be at Heartland Park trying to get faster. I'm feeling a little weak. Could someone push this needle into my vein and twist the throttle for me? Thanks.
This is club racing. There is no pressure for any individual racer to participate at any track that they deem to be unsafe. With that being said I do feel that a message needs to be sent to certain racing organizations that continually participate at venues with little regard for track safety improvements. What incentive do tracks have to spend money in order to improve safety when they are rewarded with events?
I've always considered HP to be one of the safer tracks that we run on, and I still do. IMO it is safer than Gateway. But when it comes down to it. It is up to each individual racer to determine his or her own acceptance of risk and make their decision accordingly. If other "loosers" ( BTW, it's losers) want to take advantage of it for points, who cares. This is club racing.
Race tracks have improved greatly over the years that I have raced.
I have raced on actual STREET courses.
I have been involved in a boycott at a race track...the AMA National at the Pomono Fairplex in 1994.
The boycott was a mess. No one won, really, it was just a dissaster. But there was an issue with a pedestrian bridge that had to be moved.
Ultimately, the rider has to make choices with their right hand.
I have been at six events in my racing career where racers have died. Sometimes, these deaths occured in safe areas.
As for HPT, an ill handling bike can be a handful there, but still, the rider has to make a decision what to do...race or not, how fast to go.
Sorry for incorrectly spelling loser G97, I'm currently on a vicodin/oxycotin coktail for torn ligaments. Too bad your missing the point. As Tez and R6 philly state they are tired of safety taking a backseat to money. But I guess that doesn't matter until it stikes a little closer to home. If it makes you feel better you can have my points.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
QuoteSorry for incorrectly spelling loser G97, I'm currently on a vicodin/oxycotin coktail for torn ligaments. Too bad your missing the point. As Tez and R6 philly state they are tired of safety taking a backseat to money. But I guess that doesn't matter until it stikes a little closer to home. If it makes you feel better you can have my points.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
I think we are all concerned and tired of safety issues not being handled as timely as we would like them too. I agree 100% with Tez. In your original post you even state that this is not AMA Pro racing or SBK. I am simply stating that it is up to each rider to decide own their own if they want to race at a certain track or not. I myself chose not to race at certain tracks. In addition I also do not run track days at these tracks either. Does that make the other racers that chose to race "losers" ? ,I think not.
Nowhere did I even come close to inferring that it does not matter. On the contrary. But I am realistic enough to realize that it all comes down to each individual riders decision. Me wanting your points? LMAO. :P
Not sure what you mean by "strikes a little closer to home". FYI, I have had the unfortunate experience of being life-flighted with a broken collarbone, shoulder blade, shoulder, C5,C7 broken vertebrae, inner cranial bleeding and spending a few days in a coma.
In another incident I woke up in the hospital when I lost it in the kink at RA during an AMA promoters practice.
So I take some of the blame for the new BEND section. ;D
I hope this satisfies your requirement of striking a little closer to home. ::)
:)
After my second unfortunate incident at summit point this year, I had a talk with race officials. The reason was, if there was a gravel trap to slow off-track bike before the wall, neither of us would have impacted the wall. I was inquiring how that message could be relayed to the owners/management of the track so that could be planned or looked at.
The response was, they can't. "It was hard enough to get them to move the wall back a bit".
So I realize, track management in large only care in principle. They don't really loose much money if we don't go race there, they will just rent the track out to cars.
What we need is a more proactive, and POWERFUL race organization that can make the track improve safety. We as racers can't do it directly, and the track won't do it, so the people who run the races have to care enough, and be able to deal with safety issues.
CCS has publicized growth over the last few years. Whats wrong with spending some of the growth on buying a few section of air modules for each region. I can't believe that we racers have to raise money for safety issues. I don't like the race org just sit around and hope that we deal with the issues.
The whole point if you don't understand was to try to get racers to come together. Or should we just ignore it and hope nobody we know dies.
QuoteThe whole point if you don't understand was to try to get racers to come together. Or should we just ignore it and hope nobody we know dies.
Really, wow!!! Thanks for the insight.
And My respones, because I already know that you did not get it. Each racer needs to decide for themselfs. This is club racing.
QuoteReally, wow!!! Thanks for the insight.
And My respones, because I already know that you did not get it. Each racer needs to decide for themselfs. This is club racing.
Wait, wait, of course we are responsible for ourselves, that does not necessarily mean that the race org is not responsible at the SAME time. I was run into once, bump another time and that was my 2 worst crashes. In the one I was seriously injured in, I had no way of avoiding the incident, so how could I have been responsible for my own safety? Not race because someone may run into me? then we would never race.
Race org. sactions the events. That means we have to follow the rules they impose for others safety. So I think the race org is taking the position of maintaining safety for everyone to an extend. I want to see them more involved and proactive and accomplish more.
If its we look out for ourselvs, them why go through tech. I am sure whoever cares about his/her own safety would make sure their own bike is safe right???
QuoteIs it a pre-requsite to be short a few chromosomes to join NESBA or just a J-off
Whoa :D
Somebody needs to go back to bench racing...
When ever something can be done to improve safety and no one ever takes action to make that change then there is a problem. Saying "That's racing" or "If you don't like it, don't race there" isn't solving anything. Sure there are going to be dangerous tracks and people will race there anyways, but that doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean that people won't get hurt or die.
I may be new to racing and new to this site, but if there was a major safety violation here at work, heads would roll. We need an organization such as OSHA for roadraching. If there is potential for serious injury or death, something needs to change. Accepting the fact that something awful may happen isn't the change any of us are looking for and none of us should see as just racing.
If there is a concrete wall which can be moved, move it. If it can't be moved, change the track. If you can't change the track at least put up airfence. I don't want to see or hear about any of you getting hurt or dying. I sure don't want it to happen to me.
Just my 0.02!
well said.
r6philly, i was there that day you got busted up there. look for expert 629 on the oct. 11th weekend. we usually pit right to the right of when you first get off the road and into the pit area. we have a huge set up you cant miss us. come by and say whats up. imo summit isnt that bad. although, that is the only part of the track that makes me nervous since im railing in 4th gear down that hill.
have any of you guys raced at loudon yet? mladin started a big thing and now the ama doesnt race there. but loudon is my home track, and i love it. yes i am a junky. and we have added a large amount of airfence there now. people need to realize that this is a dangerous sport and shit will most likely happen. 8)
Quoteon :Is it a pre-requsite to be short a few chromosomes to join NESBA or just a J-off ..
Nope. But apparently you have being a J-off on lock down.
QuoteWait, wait, of course we are responsible for ourselves, that does not necessarily mean that the race org is not responsible at the SAME time. I was run into once, bump another time and that was my 2 worst crashes. In the one I was seriously injured in, I had no way of avoiding the incident, so how could I have been responsible for my own safety? Not race because someone may run into me? then we would never race.
Race org. sactions the events. That means we have to follow the rules they impose for others safety. So I think the race org is taking the position of maintaining safety for everyone to an extend. I want to see them more involved and proactive and accomplish more.
If its we look out for ourselvs, them why go through tech. I am sure whoever cares about his/her own safety would make sure their own bike is safe right???
Yes, I agree. But in the end it is still up to the individual to make that decision as this is the only thing that we can control. As I said befor, I chose not to race at certain tracks that I deam as being too unsafe. Others can make their own decisions. There are plenty of safe tracks out there. HP IMO is one of them.
Do you even race? Nobody is trying to make you not race at a certain track, the attempt is to make racing safer. If you don't feel the need for safety then you've never seen anybody crash into a concrete wall at summit and die, or known Poppa who is now a quadraplegic from hitting a concrete wall. Pull your head out.
QuoteDo you even race? Nobody is trying to make you not race at a certain track, the attempt is to make racing safer. If you don't feel the need for safety then you've never seen anybody crash into a concrete wall at summit and die, or known Poppa who is now a quadraplegic from hitting a concrete wall. Pull your head out.
Do you even comprehend what you read? I would suggest that you Re-read my many post. Specifically the part where I agree with what others are saying relative to safety and that race organizations need to stop participating at said tracks.
But alas it is still up to each individual to decide.
Fine, if you have such a problem with Summit and walls................DON'T RACE there. NO ONE is making you. Pretty tacky on your part invoking third party racers who have experienced unfortunate instances on the track. Should I now start naming friends and fellow racers who I know who have experienced the same? Get a life.
For the record, riders have voted to not return to a track and we have never been back. After the first CCS race a Putnum, at the next race a vote was held at the riders meeting. We voted to not return to Putnum. At least one race (not sure if there was one or two more races at Putnum that year) was canceled and we have never returned.
Nobody voted but I believe Pocono was taken off the schedule for safty concerns.
Answer the question? And its not tacky , I knew them...
QuoteAnswer the question? And its not tacky , I knew them...
What question. You have answered nothing. Still tacky. ;D
QuoteFor the record, riders have voted to not return to a track and we have never been back. After the first CCS race a Putnum, at the next race a vote was held at the riders meeting. We voted to not return to Putnum. At least one race (not sure if there was one or two more races at Putnum that year) was canceled and we have never returned.
Not sure on the specifics with this but if memory serves me correctly continuing to run at Putnam had very little to do with safety issues and everything to do with track management and the relationship with CCS vise-versa etc. So the same riders who deemed Putnam to be too unsafe to race at continue to race at Gateway???? This does not make sence considering both the AMA, CMRA and WERA have deemed Gateway to dangerous. And WERA still races at Putnam. The only suspect area at Putnam is T10, other than that it is just as safe or safer IMO than BHF, Brainerd or RA(pre-bend). Heck even Barber and VIR have some areas more risky than Putnam.
QuoteDo you even comprehend what you read? I would suggest that you Re-read my many post. Specifically the part where I agree with what others are saying relative to safety and that race organizations need to stop participating at said tracks.
But alas it is still up to each individual to decide.
Fine, if you have such a problem with Summit and walls................DON'T RACE there. NO ONE is making you. Pretty tacky on your part invoking third party racers who have experienced unfortunate instances on the track. Should I now start naming friends and fellow racers who I know who have experienced the same? Get a life.
Actually the racing orgs are making us race there. I rather not, but if I take racing half serious and have any seasonal goals, I can't afford to not go to summit 4 time a year and re-face that wall 100's times a year. The rules/schedule of my race org dictate that I race there. So I presume the racing org think that it is safe enough to race at summit the way it is. But what if I don't think so? Should the people who sanctions the events and take my licensing and entry fees care about my assessment?
I am not suggesting that we just don't go race there. I am saying the racing orgs should do more (note I typed the word proactive about 10 times)
Remember, we are not just paying for track rental. We are also paying the race org. to run things for us, and providing a service.
As for the argument that this is only club racing............
Why isn't CCS(the regional series) NON PROFIT ? ? ?
If it is only about a bunch of guys and gals get together and have fun and have a jolly ole time, why is someone trying to make money out of it? shouldn't it not be a business, and more like a club or association?
If CCS/CCE is making money off of us racers (from spectator/gatefees), then we are subcontractors of the org (read the AMA release) instead of simple members.
If CCS/CCE is making money off of us from our entry fees, then we should be treated as customers/clients and more care taken.
Look I have to cary liability insurance so if someone slip and falls in my establishment they can sue me. Why am I being asked for a waiver, and no one can be held responsible at the track? Something aint quite the way I like it.
See if CCS/CCE is non-profit and they are turning a positive balance sheet, they would be more willing to plunge a few tens of thousands to buy us airfence. But they are FOR-PROFIT, and inproving track safety certainly is going to cut into the profit margin.
Just look at AMA. AMA is non-profit, so it does a lot of good for general rider safety and issues. AMA Pro Racing is for-profit, and it has a lot of safety complaints.
QuoteNobody voted but I believe Pocono was taken off the schedule for safty concerns.
hmmmm its more than what it is on the surface. safety is always an concern at pocono, but that track is not more dangerous than other nascar oval tracks. If safety is the concern, we would have ROC at VIR.
QuoteNot sure on the specifics with this but if memory serves me correctly continuing to run at Putnam had very little to do with safety issues and everything to do with track management and the relationship with CCS vise-versa etc.
Yes, this is absolutely correct.
QuoteActually the racing orgs are making us race there.
Stop right there...
Don't play the victim card; you make the decision to enter races. You are not contracted to race and receive a pay check. If racing is too dangerous, you need to find something else to do.
Life involves risk, everyday. Randy Renfrow falls down the stairs and dies. Terrible and tragic. If you're unable to reasonably assess the risks at an individual track and ride accordingly, you have bigger problems.
Second, you can't make the tracks do everything you want. You want them to? Then you should step up to the plate with your money and build a race track that fits your standards. Changes require money. If you can't pull that one out, it can't be done.
Yes, race tracks can rent out their time to the car racers and the car racing organizations.
How long did we race at Road America with the steer barrier at the kink? When did air fence come into existance? Daytona? I raced at Charlotte. Would you like to race with me at the Streets of Steamboat or through Park City, Utah? Laguna has some bad places. Go off the track in turn one at Brainerd...I mean just try to walk off the track in the grass...it's like motocross.
It does come down to the right hand...either in raising your hand in making the choice to race someplace or in making the decision on how fast to go in a particular area of a race track. You've got to understand the difference to have some endurance in racing.
Why isn't CCS non profit? Seems rather silly. The huge program in Omaha known as "Boy's Town" is non-profit, but they have unbelieveable sums of money...they actually operate their programs world wide from the interest that they receive on their money.
Obviously, there is a difference in whether someone slips and falls in an establishment and whether a racer is unable to control a motorcycle at speed...poor preparation of the bike, bad set up or just poor knowledge, tires heat cycled too many times, rider bought a cheaper leather suit rather than a heavy duty Vanson set, how about poor skills?
As for doing more...
You have the answers, you can work within the frame work or you can work to improve things with the existing opportunities. You ever donate to either the Wegman Fund or the RRW Air fence thing? Seems like positive work.
You have a lot of complaints, but you have no answers. I wasn't happy with the riding and knowledge base of the Midwest racers so I've blown $100k in my school helping. That's a lot of money, but it's a lot more than you think because I know that all of you make more money than I do at your jobs than I do.
I've been at six road racing events where a life has been lost. It's terrible, but I've also had people I know die of cancer, car accidents, and other things. Most racing deaths didn't have to do with a wall, etc. Racing isn't perfect, and even though every precaution is taken, we all find ways to get hurt or die. WE ALL DO OUR BEST TO MINIMIZE THE POTENTIAL.
Next?
dave, just a quick question??????streets of steamboat and park city utah,sound like races on closed public roads.do these races still exist????, is there anywhere in the u.s that races on street circuits????that is the type of racing that i grew up with, its the reason i got into racing.i wanted to race the isle of man, but a move to the states and a wife have prevented that so far, maybe some day before i die!!!!!!!!! ive been reading these posts on safety and it seems to me that not many people realise how much safer the race tracks here are as opposed to street circuits.every track ive been to here has at least some run off, ok, there are some hairy turns with walls close to them, but so what .they are there.deal with it.most of the tracks were built with cars in mind, because car racing is more popular and more profitable here.how many spectators show up at club racing??????dont know if i'm going off track here, but racing comes down to two things....... money and your right hand.no matter how good or new a track is, someone will not like it or have safety issues with it.
I want to highlight one of SUPER! Dave's points...
How many of you have donated to the air fence fund? or Wegman Benefit?
I stayed awy from Heartland Park for a few reasons..one of those was I knew the track conditions would be spotty at best. Sounds like spotty would be a nice word.
Gateway is similar but its home track for me. With another 4 sections of air fence (on top of the 2-3 they currently deploy) it may even rise to OK..given the oval walls aren't going to be moved.
I'm all for safety and have spoken with my pocketbook. But either we work with the framework of what we have or it becomes an us versus them and that's not good for anyone! things ARE getting better over time...just not at the pace we would like to see.
hey steve, how does one donate to the airfence fund? who do you contact? who do you make checks payable to??
Quotethat is the type of racing that i grew up with, its the reason i got into racing.i wanted to race the isle of man, but a move to the states and a wife have prevented that so far, maybe some day before i die!!!!!!!!!
Welcome to the board Anthony!
Personally, I would never race the Isle of Mann. Too bloody dangerous. Not me. No way.
(If you can figure out a way to get us a ride for there, count me in. Just don't tell my wife...)
QuoteStop right there...
Next?
Nice job, Dave. Very well said.
I just happened to fill out the envelope the other day. Here's the info that I came across, I'm assuming you make the checks out to: Roadracing World Action Fund.
Roadracing World Action Fund
P.O. Box 1428
Lake Elsinore, CA 92531
Dave,
thank you for being you...love ya man.
Anthony,
good to see you here...be sure to stop by again
by my pit and well have a pint my Irish friend!!!
Cheers,
Benji #30.
did someone say pint :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)see ya at blackhawk.
thanks for the fund info,
aye,
you fancy a pint do ye?
well then we'll have to ditch the women and
have a couple Sat. night.
till then,
Benji.
ditch them,????? my one can keep up with me for a good few hours...........then she spews it all upand starts all over again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,she'd probably drink ya under the table :) :) :) :)
bring her with....and Jeff too. we'll make a party of it!! ;D ;D ;D
no problem, i'll bring the guinness and whiskey.
oh be still my beaten heart...
you truly are a dear friend :'(<--- happiness
Here you go, here are all the details of the Air fence fund:
http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/actionfund/
And then wear your free t-shirt to every motorcycle event to try and drum up awareness and further contributions.
Quotedave, just a quick question??????streets of steamboat and park city utah,sound like races on closed public roads.do these races still exist????, is there anywhere in the u.s that races on street circuits?
Yeah, they were the actual roads of the towns. So, you had spray paint around manhole covers, curbs, paint lines, medians, etc. Raced at Steamboat from 1995 to 1999 ( the last year) and then at Park City, Utah in 2000. I don't think they ever did it again.
It's kind strange to do. I could go pretty fast, but you always needed to keep a little something in reserve.
Now as for Heartland Park Topeka...
The surface was obviously less than ideal. I remember my first laps thinking to myself that I had made a pretty bad mistake in coming. However, I WORKED ON MY SET UP. It's as simple as that. I was pretty dumbfounded by how fast I was going. Larry Denning made the same comment. He bested his previous personal best on the track by a second and a half or so, I think, even though we all seemed to agree that the track was worse than it was two years ago.
It doesn't matter if you are a club racer or a "whatever racer" we are all still human beings with family's. And yes, we do have the choice to race or not race at that particular track.
It's just really sad that we even have to go to a track and make a dicision on weather we're going to race or not.
I race at tracks with walls all the time, and i have seen some nasty shizznit at some of those tracks.
Some people, even some roadracers, hate it when we bring up stuff like this......unless of course it's them or someone they know or love gets hurt.
I'm sure i'll be visiting one these tracks soon again and i'll go out there and do the best that i can, because i'm a roadrace junkie. I'll try to be safe, but who know's?
It's just really ashame that money, walls and tore track conditions, out weigh the value of human life in the end.
The funny thing is, is with humans beings, we wouldn't have motorcycles or race tracks.
QuoteI'll try to be safe, but who know's?
I think that goes for everything, doesn't it?
I was watching my boys at a friends house playing on this rope swing thing. I'm watching going through all these scenarios where they can hit their head on things and stuff. When we were in Jr High, we lit my friends back yard on fire. You do the best you can, try to minimize the risk.
What is the alternative? Live in a box.
Tez, I don't know about you, but if I don't get an opportunity to blow off a bit of steam at the race track, I'm not fit for human consumption. I used to drive a full size Ford Bronco in SCCA events (with an In-Line 6 engine) when I wasn't racing...I'd just kill those guys and they didn't get it.
Somewhere around December, if I don't get some kind of fix, I start beating the wife's car.
Without motorcycle road racing, I think I'm more of a danger to myself and everyone. I really don't ride a street bike, because the rush of whacking the throttle on the street is too inviting...and the risk is SOOOO high... Isn't that the real danger?
I've raced a whole lot of races for a whole lot of years. I've been on the experiencing side of some bad stuff, and I've seen worse. But it hasn't detered me from doing what I love....LIVING!
Dave, here are my responses:
1. It is not my job to come up with answers. it would be great that I have and can provide answers. But if I can't, it is some other people's job to listen to my complaints and work somethng out. I run a business, and I would never tell my clients, that unless they have an answer, they can't complaint. I just have a beef with telling CCS what my concerns are and get "we can't help ya" in return. I rather see them try to do something about it instead of turning me down to begin with.
2. No I have not donated to the air fense fund. Rather, I have in my business plans to donoate sections of airfence to cover that wall at summit, or just put in a gravel trap. Business has not been kind this year, and I don't have any extra money to spare, but I have in the plans to buy the air fence for summit. I am working really hard to push my projects going, so I can have new bike for next year, and then do something about summit.
So actually I do have an answer. And it does not depend on anyone else. I don't want to see any more people get hurt at that place, and I am going to try to fix that. By myself, without anyone else's help, seem like I can't get it anyway. Of course if I don't have the money, I can't do anything, and I would shut up if I have to. But When I do have it, you will see a fix at summit. from me.
3. Why not build a race track? Why you think I haven't thought of it. but logistics are not possible right now. If I win the Powerball, what do you think I would do?
All I am saying is, when I am in the position to fix the problems, I will. Until then, would people/orgs who ARE in the position be more PROACTIVE?
Case in point: all the money that we spend on our bodies and bikes at summit's turn 4, can't afford to put a gravel trap and airfense or move the wall further back? I am already out 10k this year at that turn, had I know, I would have spend it there. But I didn't know, and I am trying to learn from it.
Maybe if I am more proactive you would listen to me more. I shall plan then.
Well said Philly.
Bottom line is there are unsafe conditions that exist. We all know what they are, and nothing is being done about it. People are getting hurt, and we're told that we have to accept it. Well, no we don't and we shouldn't have to.
We won't have to boycott tracks if we're all in the hospital or dead. Hopefully if I ever go down there is airfence, a gravel trap, or lots of runoff which is concrete wall free. I wish the same for all of you.
You guys have good ideas.
Dafan, first, don't go it alone. There is power in numbers. If you can get close to buying a section of air fence, get some other people on board. Like I say, "Doing it yourself isn't good enough sometimes..." I'm sure people would help.
CCS can't MAKE a track do something. Sometimes there is nothing a track can do. Sometimes problems with the DNR and drainage create the need for walls etc. If you knew that info first, you might have a better feel for solutions.
There are only so many road courses in the US and only so many dates. CCS is just trying to creat a viable series.
Talk to the ownership at Summit. They'd be happy to know. The ownership at Blackhawk asked a few of us to run the track backwards and give them some feed back. I rode it and gave them two pages of notes. At Heartland Park, the owner, who own's Blackhawk, sought me out to talk about the track. People are willing to listen. You just need to get their ear.
When I was young, a good friend of mine said, "Don't complain about anything to me unless you know the topic and have three solutions." Talking about issues is fine, but unless you can give someone a solution... There is a fine line between being adversarial and pro-active. One will get things done.
Hey Dafan,
what kind of "coach" are you, and why would you be an amateur roadracer and a coach at the same time?
just curious.
QuoteHey Dafan,
what kind of "coach" are you, and why would you be an amateur roadracer and a coach at the same time?
just curious.
Well, I have been told that I am a good rider, but not agressive enough racer. I rode alot on the street, a lot more on the track, and I am always happy to help someone else's riding, and that makes me a good guy to "coach" someone on their riding at trackdays.
I started racing in 01. Did 2 weekends, got hurt. Did some of the season last year, didn't do too well because 1. never pre-entered 2. not agressive enough. So I ride well, but not fast. So this year has been great for me to get pretty fast, by working on racing, not riding.
So, I am not teaching a racing/riding school, I am however available to give individual attentions to riders who needs help on riding techniques.
pre-enter.......are you kidding?
you must be slow if you use that as an excuse.
are you slow? I hate slower traffic, passing is
sooo nerve-racking sometimes. Well, I'm kinda
slow myself, so maybe we can ride around together
at R.O.C. ;D
thirty.
QuoteWell, I'm kinda
slow myself,....
Oh, yeah...
;)
Isn't this your one year motorcycle road racing anniversery too? Really, it was my August school last year right?
nope dave, 3 more weeks till my one year anny.
sep 6 2002 i started.
and as i remember, i was in 3 races and started no better than 25th in all of them. but i think that i was
"on the box" in 2 of those races.
oh the memories!!!!
Quotepre-enter.......are you kidding?
you must be slow if you use that as an excuse.
are you slow? I hate slower traffic, passing is
sooo nerve-racking sometimes. Well, I'm kinda
slow myself, so maybe we can ride around together
at R.O.C. ;D
thirty.
I never said I was that fast. No pre-entry means row 12 starts in Mid-Atlantic. Plus the fact that I am not that fast, kind of become a problem. I constantly finish 6th from the back of the second wave. Oh well, what can you say.
ROC may be different. But Super Dave already said you are coming for our asses, besides you problem end up starting infront of me anyway. We will try to entertain all of you who will be coming from a couple regions away.
Dave, I'm right there with you......I start to go nuts in the middle of winter if i can't go real fast on a bike or in a race car. I'm sure R-6 Philly feels the same way, as well as just about everybody that races a bike. We all need a fix sooner or later.
The risk will always be there, we all know that, and we race anyway......yes we do. But why in the world would someone invite you to race at a track with potholes in every turn and walls that sit only a couple feet away? Risk or no risk.....that's just wrong.
I wont run at Gateway because I dont feel safe running a bike on a road course in an oval. Probably wouldnt run Daytona (like I ever go fast enough to race there ;D) either.
Like Dave, I've been in 2 SCCA races where a racer died. One at Sears Pt, Didnt see the crash, just passed by about 30 seconds after it happened. Didnt look bad either. Other one at Riverside I was involved in. Watched a very close friend die in the crash. Walked away from racing after the next weekends race's practice session. Couldnt do it anymore.
QuoteBut why in the world would someone invite you to race at a track with potholes in every turn and walls that sit only a couple feet away? Risk or no risk.....that's just wrong.
Good questions.
If you're talking about Mid-Ohio and the AMA National, you have a really big point. Racers that are on the absolute edge will have a crash now and then.
Heartland Park had three AMA Nationals ('89, '90, '91) and an FUSA race there in '90. CCS had club races there from 1992 to 1999, then one in 2001, and this last one. The track was good enough for the AMA races, and the wall configuration has not changed ever. One section of the track is not used now. The only thing that has changed, is the curbing that was on the last corner that kind of divided the drag strip from the last corner. The appropriate line was always to use the curb as a little jump. Superbikes would be spinning a wheeling going over the curb. Wasn't a problem then.
The accident that happened at the track was unique. Dale Quarterley crashed in the Pro Twins race in 1991 going much faster there. He never got to the wall. There aren't any walls a couple feet from the track, unless you talk about the ones on the straight, which are similar to many of those on many straights.
As for the surface, I don't think there were any more crashes than usual. Kevin Elliott would probably know more about that than you or I. They do track that kind of info. Regardless, having raced on street courses and race tracks, there are places that you have to ride at 95% because to make a mistake would be painful. Back to that right hand again.
Dafan,
just given you crap man, i got to roller blade on
Daytona once, shortly, before being escorted off
the premesis....hey, the gate was open...and it was spring break. had to do it. anyway, i'm looking forward to running at Daytona...i'm sure i will be
awe struck all weekend.
thirty.
hey thorny,you wont be dumbfounded by the place, your gonna kick ass if you go there,probably beat a ot of experts there too,you fast fucker....oops, shouldnt be using bad language, should i, strange what a little whiskey does to a man........