I am going to try road racing for the first time in a few months. I am in Florida, so I'll be racing primarily at Homestead and Moroso. I grew up racing AMA dirt track, and working corners on the Grand National Dirt Track scene. I attended the Homestead CCS races today, and was absolutely dumbfounded at how BAD the cornerworkers were. I don't know if they were shorthanded or what, but that would be no excuse for what I saw. First...there was a bad crash (endo) coming off of the back straight, and the bike layed in several (yes, several) pieces ON THE TRACK...with the tank laying on the track ahead of the bike leaking a large pool of fuel ON THE TRACK...it took the corner worker probably 20-30 seconds to even notice, then he let the race continue for 3 FULL LAPS with the bike on the track and the rider about 5 feet off of it with presumably a broken collar bone among other things. Why the hell wasn't the race red flagged, and why the hell don't the corner workers (they actually are in the straights, not the corners) get out there and help pick up bikes and riders off of the track? Second...in a wet race, in the turn most likely to have a crash in the rain, a rider high-sided directly in the view of the corner (straight) worker...we actually had to run down and yell at the corner worker for him to notice the crash and get out the yellow (after 5-10 riders had gone through). He wasn't even watching! This first experience watching a CCS race was not the motivation I was looking for. I took my father with me and he now thinks I should travel and try to find AMA or WERA races because the safety was so bad. Is this how all of these events are run, or please tell me that they just had some idiots there today. I want to race, but I expect to be in good hands should the worst case scenario come to pass. By the way, a fan (I think it was a fan that jumped over the fence) got to the fallen rider significantly quicker than a corner worker or the ambulance. He was obviously hurt, so what the hell were they thinking. Somebody please reassure me honestly that this is not how it's run. Thanks and sorry for bitching and babbling, but wow! By the way, I will probably volunteer to work a corner at Moroso next month if I go.
Report
amazing!!! you post this on the WERA BBS first and then come over here and spew. ::)
Yep....
I noticed that too.
Whine.... Whine.... Whine.... :P
Things happen and perhaps in his opinion it could have been handled better. However, I for one really appreciate the corner workers and all they do. One episode should not be construed as the way things are always done.
So.... To all the cornerworks that may read this post please be aware that all those who race and their families really appreciate all you do.
Dawn ;)
HELLO!!! I am obviously new to this stuff...i.e. I will be starting to race in a few months. I just today found out that there was a CCS forum. I lucked into the WERA forum. But thanks for noticing. By the way, I am NOT knocking corner workers in general, just the lack of caring that was showed. I am excited about racing, and still plan on trying out CCS.
First off let me welcome you to racing. Since you are so new to it but yet seem to be an expert on corner working I may not need to inform you of the golden rule for corner workers, but just incase you have forgotten here is how you prioritize any incident on the track.
QuoteCornerworker Priorities
When cornerworking, no matter what job you are performing, you should always keep in mind these five cornerworker priorities.
your own safety
your fellow workers' safety
the safety of riders still racing
the riders involved in the accident
removal of vehicles and debris from the track
My suggestion just like over on the WERA BBS is to go out and flag a few events to get a feel for what corner workers go though and see if you can handle it any better. I have done my fair share of corner work and know that not every incident is easily handled. There is a lot going on and a lot to remember, and all this information must be passed to control.
Oh and saying that the corner worker did not care is pretty harsh, if he or she did not care they would not have even been there.
ss900.,
I am the one that encouraged you, on the WERA BBS, to come here to voice your concerns. I am also encouraged that you have done so. It should also be encouraging to the other racers that someone cares enough to air those concerns and try to find out more about their observations. I will get Henry Degouw's number for you so you can send the hey directly to the horse's mouth. Henry is genuinely concerned about racers' observations and hopefully he can answer some, if not all, of your questions. To the others that want to immediately attack this guy, chill out. Hopefully there will be more concerned participants to the Florida region and the whole of roadracing. I personally like it when someone has the balls to find out exactly what's goiing on. But 900 you have got to get all the sides of the story before you start making negative commnets. As I told you before, on the WERA BBS, volunteer as a cornerworker, get involved more than as an observer. Talk to the cornerworkers. Talk to Henry or all the promoters. I have found there are no idealic tracks and or circumstances but keep on making observations and asking questions. Making our sport safer should be the #1 concern fo all of us. IMHO
I know from personal observation and first hand accounts of other races around the country that cornerworking is done differently in different regions. Here in the Southwest region the cornerworkers do not leave their station to aid a downed rider. Their job is to stay put and make sure the other riders are properly signalled, no matter how bad they want to help. Instead, the crash truck rolls immediately and those guys do what they can to clear the debris if necessary. The cornerworkers also do not make the call on red flagging a race. They call in the accident and give as much accurate detail as possible so the race director can make the call for the red flag and/or the ambulance.
As for the fan who jumped the fence to aid the downed rider, that's a serious violation of protocol. It doesn't matter how bad the accident is you should NEVER have spectators running around on a live race track (or a dead one for that matter) and any praise for that guys efforts is misplaced.
I want to reply to the Homestead concerns letter. The first thing is that the cornerworkers at this event are very well trained and care a lot about the riders. However, there were mistakes made with regards to the incident in question. There was no corner worker at turn #11, there should have been! I was later told that turns #10 & #12 were watching this corner as there is seldom a problem there. Not good enough! From now on there will always be a corner worker there. The actual person going to the downed rider was our track photographer. The rider suffered a broken collar bone and I agree the race should have been stopped. Your statement about cornerworkers on the straights is somewhat accurate as they have to be in position to signal riders coming off the straights into the infield. Good grief, think about it! I would hope that because of this incident you don't write off the entire corner working crew! They are the hardest working and most caring people at the races. Like any mistake, we will try to make sure it never happens again. I appreciate your concern and hope you can join our corner working crew in the future. You can contact me anytime.
Henry
I, by no means am writing off all of the corner workers because of one incident. I appreciate your response, and am definately still gonna go racing with you guys (as slow as I may be...lol), and I do hope to be able to work a corner at Moroso next month.
Thanks again!
Kinda' hard to find fault with Henry's response. Concern expressed; concern acknowleged and action intended to reduce possibility of recurrance given.
Seems appropriate. Good job.
Safe trips,
Dave
Well, THE_D.O.C. and Dawn, it seems to me like y'all owe SS900FE an apology.
You called his post spew and whining. Yet, Henry DeGouw's post seems to make it pretty clear that SS900FE made some legitimate observations and had some legitimate concerms.
In fact, if you ever race at Homestead, maybe you ought to even consider THANKING SS900FE, since it seems that his post may have contributed, at least in some small way, to ensuring that in the future Turn 11 always has its own cornerworker.
Your negative and not-in-any-way constructive responses to SS900FE are the kind of thing the WERA BBS is well-known for. I hope you will not make a habit of that kind of kindergarten sandbox posting on this BBS also.
SS900FE, I salute you for bringing the issue to light. Thanks for helping to make racing safer for all of us.
- Stu
Stu...
I will not apologize (this is Dawn by the way). My family has been in racing for over 30+ years, both in stock cars, drag cars and motorcycles. Too many times people will see a crash, over react, and call the corner workers, race officials and emergency crews idiots. NO WAY!!!!!
When a crash happens, emotions run high and time seems to slow down. Yes, the person that has crashed needs help, but the other drivers, corner workers, and emergency personel need to be informed that a crash has occurred. This is done by radios and flags, and this takes time (although not much). Then the the race needs to be slowed to a point where the people who can offer assitance to the injured rider won't be in danger of being injured themselves. If a person would actually start timing from when the crash occurred to how long it took for someone actually to get there, they would probably be surprised as to how little time it actually takes.
The people who work the track so we can have fun deserve a lot of credit. They have taken good care of my father, uncles, and husband. I really take offense at anyone who would call them idiots and that they didn't care. If the corner workers didn't care about the riders, they wouldn't be there.
Dawn
Well, Henry it is good to see you respond to this post.
Just a follow up note....
I am glad Henry did respond, and address the concern. If only he would have gone to people who have the authority to address his concerns, and make any changes necessary, first - before a forum like this - the world would be a lot better, and perhaps, a less stressfull place. (This is not only for racing, but in business and your personal life as well).
O.K. I'll get off my soap box now....
Sorry,
Dawn
This is probably the last you will here from me on this issue (Hooray!!!), but I just wanted to respond to Dawn. The people that were responsible for letting a race continue 3 full laps with a bike and parts leaking fuel directly on the race surface and, by the way, at the entrance to a VERY fast corner, performed like idiots. Maybe they aren't idiots, but their reactions were out and out poor. My family has also been racing for a long time (try since 1932!), and I started at the age of 4 in 1979 myself, so that has nothing to do with my feelings on this particular incident. It's simple...in ANY road race, on ANY track, at ANY time, you don't let a race go that long with a bike on the race surface! Enough.
Bryan:
Your post has created a lot of responses both on the WERA board and the CCS board. However, I feel your post here was premature.
This is the way I wish the situation would have been handled. If you see a problem in a race.... Take your concerns to the race director first. If you don't get satisfaction there, take it to the club. A post like this should be as a last result only.
Dawn
By the way.... In my family we have three generations of racing. If our daughter has her way, it will be four. :-/
I apologize for that, but I am completely new to the racing scene here in Florida, and had no idea how to respond. There were about 10 other fans there near me that all said they were gonna write emails and letters to the CCS regarding this incident, so I guess I didn't know any better.
SS900FE,
No need for apologies, dude. You have just gotten your first lesson in "Never say anything negative about the Establishment in Public". Fortunately, the bad consequences are mostly confined to name-calling and abuse from the WERA cliques on the WERA BBS. It sounds like you've already gotten some of that.
Personally, I am a strong believer in public scrutiny and public discourse. I don't like back door deals and "private" conversations.
Raising this issue in this forun has given everybody else an opportunity to know about it and see CCS' response. Personally, I am very impressed with Henry DeGouw's response and pleased that I was able to witness it. Before, he was just a name on those flyers I get in the mail. Now, in my mind, he's a good guy that I am more inclined to go racing under.
Also, as you have already pointed out, you were not the only person to witness that incident. By raising the issue here, it gives all those other people who saw it an opportunity to see Henry's response, too. If you had called and had a private chat, some of those people would surely have just gone away with a bad feeling about CCS and never had anything happen to help them dispel it. Now, maybe some of them will find their way here and read Henry's response and end up with a positive feeling about CCS instead of a negative one.
Don't let a little name-calling and eye-rolling get you down!
- Stu
ps. In MY family, we have NO generations of racing before me. I feel SO inferior! ;-)
QuoteWell, THE_D.O.C. and Dawn, it seems to me like y'all owe SS900FE an apology.
You called his post spew and whining. Yet, Henry DeGouw's post seems to make it pretty clear that SS900FE made some legitimate observations and had some legitimate concerms.
In fact, if you ever race at Homestead, maybe you ought to even consider THANKING SS900FE, since it seems that his post may have contributed, at least in some small way, to ensuring that in the future Turn 11 always has its own cornerworker.
Your negative and not-in-any-way constructive responses to SS900FE are the kind of thing the WERA BBS is well-known for. I hope you will not make a habit of that kind of kindergarten sandbox posting on this BBS also.
SS900FE, I salute you for bringing the issue to light. Thanks for helping to make racing safer for all of us.
- Stu
stu, "AKA idiot" my jab at this clown is that he was whining and cusing a scene on the WERA BBS instead of talking to the correct officials here. not for having concerns. weren't you the clown whining about tom fetsko there? if so you know where to look. go see his post there. by the way the folks at wera defended ccs and told himthat this can happen sometimes.
I appreciate the clown remark by the way. One thing I have not done is be rude or call anybody names or act like an a$$hole. I admitted that I didn't know where to post about this incident, made it right when I found out, and got the answer I was looking for. By the way...in my very 1st post way back, all I was looking for was feedback on how things run elsewhere (aka..WERA), so get off your high horse, don't call people you don't know names, etc, and try not to live the rest of your life like the a$$hole you appear to be. Sorry if I offended anybody else, but I hope this is not how this person treats everybody. By the way, without new fans and racers, there is no more racing. Get a clue!
Alright....
This is getting just as bad as the 4 & 6 thread. ::)
Time to put this one to bed.
Dawn
QuoteI appreciate the clown remark by the way. One thing I have not done is be rude or call anybody names or act like an a$$hole. I admitted that I didn't know where to post about this incident, made it right when I found out, and got the answer I was looking for. By the way...in my very 1st post way back, all I was looking for was feedback on how things run elsewhere (aka..WERA), so get off your high horse, don't call people you don't know names, etc, and try not to live the rest of your life like the a$$hole you appear to be. Sorry if I offended anybody else, but I hope this is not how this person treats everybody. By the way, without new fans and racers, there is no more racing. Get a clue!
face it, you got caught trying to stir up something. you went to wera talking smack about ccs, when you know damn well you should have spoken to ccs officials first. you wanted attenion and now you have it. don't be pissed at me because it's not the kind you wanted. ;)
OK...for the final time...I did NOT know who to talk to. I just lucked into finding the WERA BBS page while searching for race bike classifieds. I didn't even know there WAS a difference between WERA and CCS...I thought they were all a part of Formula USA. I am NEW...hello???!!!??? As soon as somebody told me this site existed, I switched over to here. Again, I am sorry for not knowing any better, but I DID wind up with an excellent response from the powers that be. Think what you want, dude. Peace!
SOOOOOOOO. you don't even know that CCS and WERA are different, yet you know EVERYTHING about corner working?!? ::)
SS900FE...
Don't worry about and don't even respond to THE D.O.C. and hopefully he will go away.