This weekend...
I was told that lighter wheels don't make a diffrence.
Sorry but I know better!
http://www.revlimiterracing.com/wheels/marchesiniwheels/marchesiniwheels.html
Yes, they make a difference.
Personally I'd call them a waste of money (for MY racing purposes).
If money were no object, or I were provided a sample, I'd gladly run them...
Of course they make a difference. But, I would agree if Jeff on this one. They would not make enough of a difference to justify the cost for me.
However, if I were to get lighter wheels, I would get 16.5"s. The smaller diameter gives great benefits with regards to grip. Of course, then you can't run Supersport, you have to talk Andy or Tom into bringing 16.5" tires, etc. :-/
So, Eddie? The important issue here is... was there a protest, and was it upheld?
I don't have my rulebook, but I'm pretty sure that the lightweight aftermarket wheels are illegal for supersport, and thus, F40. I actually noticed that myself last time at the rain race, but he crashed out that weekend, and I had forgotten about it.
Chris,
The decision did not go Eddie's way... :'(
Dawn
QuoteChris,
The decision did not go Eddie's way... :'(
Dawn
It will at Blackhawk! ;D I think the rest of us should be flattered because someone needs to do that. ;D
like others said, yes they do but i dont have the cash in boxes to justify getting them. Yes, as far as i can tell the are ILLegal for supersport.
Lighter wheels make the bike easier to flick back and forth as you are not just reducing the overall weihgt of the bike. Much more importantly, your reducing the rotating MASS of the wheel, hence easier to flick back & forth. I had the joy of riding a friends ZX1200 with marchenseni wheels. over 4lb lighter per.. you really could tell a difference.
bingo... the less rotating mass, the quicker the bike will accellerate AND stop...
I'm confused. If the wheels were illegal, and they were on the bike, why didn't Eddie win the protest? Was it not filed in time?
QuoteI'm confused. If the wheels were illegal, and they were on the bike, why didn't Eddie win the protest? Was it not filed in time?
It was filed in time... The staff didn't know how to identify the wheels. I have stats and data from the Mfg company that shows how to ID them. I'm bringing it to Blackhawk for the next round. If he want's to run them again, I'll be waiting! It's not fair for all of us that were in the race. :(
Didn't they say MARCHISINI on them? I would think that in that case, they would at least take photos and hold the race under protest. No tech inspector could be expected to know the origin of every nut, bolt and widget, but I would think that in a case like this they would try for some documentation.
If your boy throws his stock wheels back on, now you look like the idiot. Not fair.
The bike in question did actually come produced from the factory with those wheels.
Will they make a difference? We'll probably a little. The effort to ride at a vicious pace would be easier. It would make life easier at a track where there were a whole lot of left right left right turns. MAM sweeps a bit.
Eddie, this is a hard one. I can kind of lean both ways on the issue.
I don't think the wheels allowed him an advantage. He used to race 250's back in the late '70's and early '80's. He came to my school about two years ago with some intention of possibly racing. So, to ease things for him, as he just rides plain smooth, we got him licensed as an expert his first race out to keep him safe.
Spirit of the rules? I think there is some fudge room here, but those wheels did come stock on that particular bike. Not many of them were made.
Simple...a cycle is power to weight ratio. Less weight the faster and more power. Would I buy them..at this point no. Look at all your Pro-riders and their profiles..they are all like 150-180lbs
QuoteThe bike in question did actually come produced from the factory with those wheels.
Will they make a difference? We'll probably a little. The effort to ride at a vicious pace would be easier. It would make life easier at a track where there were a whole lot of left right left right turns. MAM sweeps a bit.
Eddie, this is a hard one. I can kind of lean both ways on the issue.
Spirit of the rules? I think there is some fudge room here, but those wheels did come stock on that particular bike. Not many of them were made.
Dave, The Mag wheels are not stock for the "S" model. That bike was only produced with heavier Aluminum Marchenisi wheels. The mags come on the SPS model. I spoke to many folks about it after I got home. Not only a dealer but the factory rep.
As you know... Any advantage that is not legal for the class is helpful. No matter how good a rider is. I ask why he spent the $$ on them?
It's all water over the dam now, but come next round at Blackhawk...
Are you answering your own question...
Is it an SPS model? Chris does this for fun. That's his dad's bike. It's a little easier to ride because of the cool master cylinder on it and all.
As for an advantage, "Any advantage that is not legal for the class is helpful. No matter how good a rider is..." that's BS. Denning hardly goes faster on his R1 when compared to his R6. That's 30HP. THAT's an advantage. Wheels aren't going to make up an acceleration or handling change that will make any "real" difference. Take up the issue with Chris. I'm sure he'll listen. He has his bike and his dad's. If he understands what the issue is, he'll ride the appropriate bike. He's not buried in the rule book, he's doing this for fun.
And isn't that why we do this?
QuoteAre you answering your own question...
Is it an SPS model? Chris does this for fun. That's his dad's bike. It's a little easier to ride because of the cool master cylinder on it and all.
As for an advantage, "Any advantage that is not legal for the class is helpful. No matter how good a rider is..." that's BS. Denning hardly goes faster on his R1 when compared to his R6. That's 30HP. THAT's an advantage. Wheels aren't going to make up an acceleration or handling change that will make any "real" difference. Take up the issue with Chris. I'm sure he'll listen. He has his bike and his dad's. If he understands what the issue is, he'll ride the appropriate bike. He's not buried in the rule book, he's doing this for fun.
And isn't that why we do this?
His bike is NOT an SPS.
Fun is definitely part of the reason I do this. I still think Chris running illegal equipment on the bike should DQ him. That's why there are rules for each class. Other wise it would all be one class UnlimitedGP. Heck Calvin ran slicks... would you say that's also a reason to be DQed? I'm just saying that if I need to adhere to the rules, so does everyone else.
Eddie, are you sure the wheels were magnesium? The Aluminum 5 spoke wheels that came on the 996S look similar. Do you have any pics?
Well, I feel wheels would make a difference.
How about this scenario--I got DQ'd from MWSB cuz the frame on my Gixxer came from a 750. Did it give me any advantage? No, its heavier and longer.
Can I prove it didn't help--sure--I WAS IN LAST PLACE!!
Now tell me that wasn't a ludicrous scenario
QuoteEddie, are you sure the wheels were magnesium? The Aluminum 5 spoke wheels that came on the 996S look similar. Do you have any pics?
ditto that.
Quoteditto that.
There is a diffrence. His stock ones had the rains mounted. There is a ridge on the Mags and no ridge on the Alu. It was shown to me by parts counter guy yesterday. They do look very similar. It's why he was able to get away with it till now. :P
Gee, I did not realize what this post was really about when I originally replied. Eddie, I feel bad for saying this, but...
Illegal wheels probably would make the bike fractionally easier to ride. But, even with stock wheels I think that Chris would have beaten you anyway. Also, it is his home track... :-/
QuoteGee, I did not realize what this post was really about when I originally replied. Eddie, I feel bad for saying this, but...
Illegal wheels probably would make the bike fractionally easier to ride. But, even with stock wheels I think that Chris would have beaten you anyway. Also, it is his home track... :-/
I'm not saying he's not a good rider. I'm saying rules are rules.
You are right. They are the rules.
The really unfortunate part is that a LARGE percentage of all racers don't have legal bikes. But, I don't want to touch that subject.
QuoteWell, I feel wheels would make a difference.
How about this scenario--I got DQ'd from MWSB cuz the frame on my Gixxer came from a 750. Did it give me any advantage? No, its heavier and longer.
Can I prove it didn't help--sure--I WAS IN LAST PLACE!!
Now tell me that wasn't a ludicrous scenario
No kidding? That DOES suck...
As for the rest of the topic... sure, rules are rules, if you want to protest over something as small as wheels, it's your right to do so. But keep in mind, it could invoke some sort of protest war, he may come back at you when it's least convenient...
The only time I intend to protest is if something is blatantly wrong (i.e. 750 running in MW class, etc.)
QuoteNo kidding? That DOES suck...
As for the rest of the topic... sure, rules are rules, if you want to protest over something as small as wheels, it's your right to do so. But keep in mind, it could invoke some sort of protest war, he may come back at you when it's least convenient...
The only time I intend to protest is if something is blatantly wrong (i.e. 750 running in MW class, etc.)
I run a stock bike... I welcome all protests ;D
QuoteI run a stock bike... I welcome all protests ;D
So do I (up until a week ago, I even had the stock exhaust can on my bike...) But that's not the point. Say you run a race, and take a win, early on in the race day. Your bike is totally legal. I am some rider who is pissed at you for being protested in the past. So I protest you, claiming your bike is too fast, it must have illegal cams or pistons or something. Now you are forced to either accept the DQ, or tear your bike down, right then and there.
If you choose to fight the protest... are you really going to want to stand there in 90 degree heat, missing other races of yours, to take your bike apart to fight a bogus protest? Or are you just gonna saw "screw it" and take a DQ?
I don't know about you, but I bet most would just take the DQ. I probably would, unless it was something easy to disprove.
QuoteThere is a diffrence. His stock ones had the rains mounted. There is a ridge on the Mags and no ridge on the Alu. It was shown to me by parts counter guy yesterday. They do look very similar. It's why he was able to get away with it till now.
Actually you have it backwards. The spokes of the OEM wheels have a ridge and the Mg wheels don't.
QuoteActually you have it backwards. The spokes of the OEM wheels have a ridge and the Mg wheels don't.
Oh yeah...something like that. ;)
Why have rules again? ::)
Now I wonder those of you who think it's a waste of time to protest would protest if a person with illegal for your class parts beat you in the last race of season which was just enough to take the championship away from you... hmmm.. ::)
QuoteWhy have rules again? ::)
Now I wonder those of you who think it's a waste of time to protest would protest if a person with illegal for your class parts beat you in the last race of season which was just enough to take the championship away from you... hmmm.. ::)
Honestly, it would depend on whether or not I thought the illegal parts in question gave him a sizeable advantage over me. Rims? No, I wouldn't protest. I'd be shocked if lightweight rims made the guy go .05 faster around a track.
Jim.... don't you agree that breaking a rule is still breaking a rule regardless of how minor it is? Although I would never protest anything.. I still think everyone has the right to protest even a rule is broken that's all.
Quotedon't you agree that breaking a rule is still breaking a rule regardless of how minor it is?
I agree.
If you're in a SS class with illegal wheels, and your beating me made a difference to me in points (next year) or kept me from contigency, I'm gonna protest. If wheels wouldn't make much difference, how come people buy alum sprockets, which make an even smaller difference? I think wheels would make a change you could feel, which means it's a change big enough to make a difference.
If you're a rider out there slower than me, or if I don't think the wheels would've made a difference, I'm not gonna say a thing. But running something like illegal wheels, well, rules are rules. if Tom or Paul went out with illegal wheels, and did it repeatedly, I would say something....because I feel you have to respect for the rules. If we let it go here, where do we draw the line?
I know of someone who got a 3rd in LWSS, and was DQ'd because of a BMC filter. He was PISSED, but it's his responsibility to make sure the bike is legal.
I double and triple checked that my bike met the rules for SS. I wasn't sure about the subframe, and I called CCS to make sure I was clear on that. I never have to worry about it now.
Just my thoughts.
Whoever decided to make it a rule thought it made a difference. He has the bike listed as a 998. They stopped calling it an SPS and started calling it an R with the 996. I don't believe any Ducati comes with Magnesium wheel's even an R. If the bike is an SPS or R then it is not street legal which would make it illegal for Supersport racing. Look on top of the upper triple clamp for a small riveted plate that says 996R or 998R and what # it is.(i.e. 345 of 1000)
Yes we are racing for fun but competitivness is what drive's most of us. The guy is still going to beat you with aluminum wheel's, especially if you pi$$ him off.
I don't think that you could piss him off. He is a super nice guy. He is just out there to have fun. He is not in it for the championship.
Since I am not involved in that class, I don't care. Maybe I would feel differently if I were the one finishing behind him. But, I doubt it. It didn't bother me too much getting smoked last year by all of the other people out there with bikes that had significant illegal advantages.
However, I still do understand that rules are there for a reason...