I've tried my best to keep an favorable view of this sanctioning body but, today they showed me why so many racers are P O'd at them all the time, and I mean ALL THE TIME!
Last year, they scored me wrong in a money race, at the last double points event of the year (Gateway). I didn't officially file a protest on paper because the people that I know "VERY" well at CCS said that they would take care of it. Myself, Kevin Gordon, and Chris Weeden were in a points battle at the time, so every point mattered. It took them a few months but, I finally got the points that they owed me, but no money.
That was last October..... this is the middle of June.
They have given me the runaround so much that im starting to think that they can't be the people that I know.
Anyway, they gave the money and the wood that "I" won to another racer. Even though they gave me my points, they have done nothing about the money that I won, even though they told me over and over and over and over and over.................again that they were going to take care of it. I've left messages for K E, T E, and everybody in between. They NEVER return my calls. I've talked to them in person and on the phone (when I've called them ) so many times that I'm sick of it. They can KEEP the fn money. If this is what it's like to deal with people who call themselves adults, then I would rather deal kids. At least kids don't "CHEAT" and "DECEIVE" like the people that they are suppose to emulate.
Tez....
Sorry to hear about your misfortune.
May I suggest to all that read this forum, deal with CCS like you do any business - even if you know the person. If you need a refund, complete the paperwork and keep copies. If you follow up with a phone call, write down the date and who you spoke with. This will give you a paper trail that will help you get the desired out come (may-be).
There are too many facts that can get lost or misunderstood when there is no documentation about the situation.
My $0.02
Dawn :-/
Dawn,
No offense, but how many times must someone be told that things are going to happen, yet nothing gets done. Tiffiney replied to my note on points, but I know I have sent e-mail directly to her and have at times, not received a reply. I say that to comment on even you follow the proper channels, some times things don't get done.
If someone tells you they are going to take care of it, then they should take care of it.
Thats a crying shame tez, Reminds me of a story last year about some midwest racers. I sent some fuel for them up to a race and only one of the racers paid me for their half of the fuel.
It sounds like your having the same like I did collecting money.
I guess what comes around goes around.
QuoteDawn,
No offense, but how many times must someone be told that things are going to happen, yet nothing gets done. Tiffiney replied to my note on points, but I know I have sent e-mail directly to her and have at times, not received a reply. I say that to comment on even you follow the proper channels, some times things don't get done.
If someone tells you they are going to take care of it, then they should take care of it.
Sean:
It was simply a suggestion for everyone on the board. Sheesh!
Dawn
Sorry guys, I am a little tired and frustrated.
Please excuse my attitude.
I too have been trying myself to give ccs the "benefit of the doubt", but lately it is getting real hard to do just that :-[ Results, Points, lack of organization, lack of communication, and total lack of concern, have made it real hard for me to "get into" the ccs season much this year. :-/
I raced at CMP this past weekend with AHRMA and had a great time. Lots of track time, posting of the grids and results were very quick and accurate. It was just an all around good "vibe" around track :)
I think CCS is trying very hard to emulate the AMA...they are known by many to have the previously described attributes by Treybone >:(
With all do respect Dawn, keeping a paper trail is great for records, but if these people keep saying they're going to do certain things and they don't, then that's just plain WRONG. Why would they tell someone that they're going to do something verbably for eight months and then act like they don't know what the hell you're talking about? I've called them a BUNCH of times and the person I've wanted to talk to is ALWAYS on the phone or out of the office. "What's your # Tez, I'll have them call you back". I can't count how many times that they've said that same sht. You should hear them stutter stepping on the phone, it's a freakin joke! None of us that race earn a living from this, but some people only race in the classes that pay out the little bit that they do. It's not much but, maybe you can earn a set of tires out of it or whatever it is that you're tryin to win. CCS is suppose to be a proffessionally run organization, and we as racers, should not have to watch every single thing that they do. We work all week and then we go race on the weekend because it's fun, not to deal with all this madness. Maybe they need to hire more people to help out, because the way they're running things right now is terrible.
Tez..
Not to rub salt in your wound, but check out the Blackhawk results and see what they have listed as your sponsor for UGP.
Tez, I am in no way defending Dawn, but..... Dawn is in a position between the CCS admin types and the rest of us. Can't exactly let the site turn into a bunch of undefended CCS bashing.
That said, I have had serious thoughts about making the switch to WERA next season due to the many of issues discussed/commented/etc usually to no avail. My experiance with WERA has not been without problems, but obviously issues with CCS are not being handled as well as they could.
QuoteTez..
Not to rub salt in your wound, but check out the Blackhawk results and see what they have listed as your sponsor for UGP.
Perfect example. I have the same problem with mine. I called and spoke to a person over a month ago. My sponsor info still has not been corrected.
For three weekends I was without a bike. I was using my teammates bike, so I chose to only enter the one race where I have a chance in the points. I had pre-entered 2 classes per weekend for the whole year. Each weekend, I canceled my second race at regestration Saturday morning before going to tech inspection. I was told that since I was canceling before the first bike had gone out, I would get my money back.
I finally get my new bike together, and call CCS to apply my $150 to other classes. I'm told that in every case, you forfeit your first race unless you call the office a week in advance to cancel. Not what I was told at regestration, and not very damn fair. I never even teched for that class. $150 gone.
At MAM, we entered the team challenge. Our bike dropped a valve on the first lap. I never even got to throw a leg over the bike. We asked if we could run another bike, and just be disqualified. Nope. $300 for 3/4 of a lap. I remember when GLRRA ran endurance races, and if you started a new bike, all your laps were gone and you started from scratch. The idea was to at least let you have the fun that you had paid for. I once saw a team blow up four bikes in a six-hour race. They came in last, laughed like idiots, seemed to be having more fun than anyone, and won the hard luck trophy!
I've personally given CCS $450 of my money in the last month and recieved exactly nothing for it. Should I be a satisfied customer? They always have a perfectly good rule to quote when they are screwing us, but is the attitude that CCS displays going to retain them customers in the long run? Our fields are down. Slow economy, or pissed off racers going elsewhere?
Boogieman, I agree....it is wack...and you are obviously getting screwed! >:(
I suspect they don't wanna buck-up, since they are already out of pocket by giving your cheddar to someone else.
Since they are dodging you, they obviously don't want to rectify their mistake, and make right.
With all the time and frustrations you've already invested in getting your winnings, I would be shocked if CCS made good.
Something is better than nothing :P I guess, maybe they would give you your $$$x2, towards race credits. That way they wouldn't 'lose' any money (and actually might settle-up w/ ya then), and you would at least get 'something' ...although definately not what is owed to you ::)
Good luck
hey trey!
it was nice meeting you at AHRMA this past weekend. i agree with you, the atmosphere is more relaxed (maybe it is the old folks ;D) and you get way more tracktime for the dollar spent. the reason is more because there are less entries than ccs, so less crashes, less waiting around etc.
If you race a twin or triple, you are crazy not to give AHRMA a chance ;)
I sent my $100 for my license on May 9 and haven't heard a word since. Hope it comes in time for the Wegman weekend ???
<whisper> WERA .. WERA .. </whispering>
:)
I'll be trying out AHRMA for the first time next weekend at Grattan. Hopefully there will be a good turnout of twins ..
I am not bashing CCS, it's just the TRUTH. Sorry that the TRUTH hurts in this situation but, that's just to bad. Look at K3s situation.....
That's rediculous. We're talking about hard earned money here. This forum was created for people to express themselves, and i'm doing just that. Tired of sweeping the garbage under the carpet, so i'm telling on them. I don't care if it's not nice to discuss this on this forum.....I'm doing it. Get mad if you want but, I'm tired of not being able to business the right way with this so call "organization", especially since I thought that they were cool people in the first place. That makes it worst. Somebody over there needs to do something about this. Some of the racers that they are stickin to, are some of the coolest people at the track. That does't look good at all. Some of the best racers around have moved on to other organizations......I wonder why? The same CCS racers that race elsewhere, are the same racers no matter if they are fast or slow, it's not like we have bad racers in our orginazation, even though everyone does, including the AMA.
Why do sooooooo many racers complain about CCS? It's not because they just feel like it. Nobody's picking on CCS, they're the one's with the power to do whatever they want, and they are doing just that.
Can someone tell me who do you talk to, to get REAL results over there? Somebody's got to do something before this becomes more stupid than it already is.
It's already stupid. There's nothing they can do about it. Take for instance the Barber event coming up in August. 4 regions plus usgpru. What a cluster that is going to be. I can only imagine the nightmare that is going to be. That is why you won't see me at Barber in August.
I will be at Barber in October for AHRMA. The weather should be better then too ;D
4 regions plus usgpru at Barber? OMG. Is it about stuffin all those regions together to get paid, or is somebody not thinking straight? Mass confusion is guaranteed. What next?
Tez, give me a call. I need to know if you need your leathers for MAM. (and we can talk ;))
Alexa
QuoteTez, give me a call. I need to know if you need your leathers for MAM. (and we can talk ;))
Alexa
Lucky dog!
I know that I have had enough of CCS this year and won't be back for next!
QuoteLucky dog!
Dude, you have my #. ;) :D ;D
I haven't been real impressed with CCS this season either since they put the LP practices with the racing on Saturday. It's not worth the drive anymore for 2 race days where it was somewhat worth it when you could get a full track day in on Friday. I have only been to one out of town race this year and pretty sure I won't make another one and not really sure what I will race next year if I even race at all. Unfortunately CCS is the only thing going in my area also so that's not a big help...
Tez when did you notify CCS of a scoring discrenpency(sp? sorry it's late)?
I notified them on the same day that it happened. I said that if something wasn't done about it, that I was going to call Kevin. The people that were their said not to call Kevin and that "we'll take of it". I said fine. That was 8 months ago. Now everybody is saying that I should have filed some sort of paper work. I took their word for it because I thought they were my friends and now I find myself in this SO easily solvable situation. I have NO reason to lie about something so stupid. Unreal.
What CCS is lacking is a forum where real actions and the feelings of the membership are not only viewed but acted upon as well.
CCS is obviously dysfunctional. There inlies the problem. It's so disjointed that there is no obvious remedy.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Dawn?
As cool as Dawn is 8), she doesn't work for CCS, she is only the moderator of this forum. AND, this forum is the "Unofficial" CCS forum. That basically means we can vent, celebrate, bench race and talk trash here, but it's not an official channel of communication. :-/ So What can we do when there's a problem? Don't know. Haven't found an answer for that yet. As Dawn has said before, don't assume anything, leave a wide paper trail, and keep at it until you get results. IF you get results. It sux, but it's all we have.
people should sometimes reflect how hard it would be to run an organization as big as ccs, wera, etc. not making excuses, but there are rules provided for every gripe here. seems that some want to steer around those rules, and just conveniently gripe about it here. they thinks that "oooh i'll embarrass them publicly and they'll succumb to my whims" well guess what? if i were kevin, i'd not say a word here. or, i'd say "did you follow proper procedure and fill out the neccessary paperwork?" come on guys.
Tez - can you please e-mail me at foreveragr8tfriend@yahoo.com. Thank you.
Amy
Tez,
You questioned the results on Sunday morning, nearly 15 hours after they were final. After 30 minutes results are final, otherwise we could never payout purses or assign points, and it is the riders responsibility to check the results before the protest period expires. By not checking them on Saturday, you cheated yourself out of your rightful position and purse.
The people who work at the track are human, and all humans make mistakes, that is why we provide a "double-check" system for the riders to protest scoring errors within a reasonable time period. And if the protest isn't accepted or it is denied, you can follow thw appeals process listed in the rulebook also, just as Chris Onwiler did over Formula 40. Even after you discovered the error, you still never put anything in writing, thus we have no proof you ever requested anything other than the points, and the only proof we have of that is the "adjustment" Tiffiney made on the final point standings. We accepted the responsibility for our mistake, and awarded the points you requested. Is that being unresponsive to you?
Chris,
Your team was given the opportunity afforded to everyone who entered the MAM Team Challenge. The rules call for the same frame that starts the race to finish the race, and switching bikes is not allowed by the rulebook. Regardless of how the now defunct GLRRA used to do it, Formula USA doesn't allow you to change machines during the Team Challenge. Your team was given practice time and the opportunity to race, it is a shame the the machine was not up to the task.
I will look into your requests for refunds, if they were done before the opening of registration for the event, you are entitled to a refund less a $10 admin fee.
Dawn is correct. Keep written records of your financial dealings with us. Write down the name of the person you spoke with when you called, what time you called and what the call was about. There are only two people in this office that are dedicated to road racing, and if by chance you get a hold of someone else who is pitching in to help out, we need to know who it was so we can go back and figure out how to correct any mistakes that might have been made.
If any of you have any further questions on your specific circumstances, please send me an e-mail to kevinelliott@clearchannel.com
Good Day.
well gentleman? ;)
Yes it was Sunday that I found out that I was scored wrong in Saturdays race. I didn't think I was scored wrong in the first place, that's why I didn't check the sheet. But once I did, I asked if something could be done about them scoring me wrong, and the people who were there said YES. That is the ONLY reason I would be saying what I'm saying. Why would they keep telling me for so long (8 months) not to worry about it, "we'll take care of it" if all they had to say was "we can't help you, you should file a protest". Why did they give me the POINTS and NO MONEY? We discussed the prize money and the points, but I only got points. It was a VERBALL agreement, and they looked me right in my face and said, "we'll take care of it" and I said fine. Humans do make mistakes, and I guess I made one. But whatever, I know now. It's just a shame that I had to say this on here, and some people are upset, because I told the truth on a public forum.
D.O.C.....did you read the posts? Read them again.
QuoteChris,
Your team was given the opportunity afforded to everyone who entered the MAM Team Challenge. The rules call for the same frame that starts the race to finish the race, and switching bikes is not allowed by the rulebook. Regardless of how the now defunct GLRRA used to do it, Formula USA doesn't allow you to change machines during the Team Challenge. Your team was given practice time and the opportunity to race, it is a shame the the machine was not up to the task.
Hi Keven.
I do realize that the rules were clear reguarding the Team Challenge. It would have been sweet if we could have run one of our other bikes and taken a disqualification. One of our largest sponsors was there, and signed up as a rider for the challenge. Like me, he also never got a chance to race. That day did not work out at all as we had planned. Our hope was to fire him up, thus getting him more involved in our team. Instead, he went home disappointed. I realize that this is not GLRRA or WERA, but wish we could have gotten to ride that day, even if it meant we were disqualified. Since we had signed the waiver, paid our money, and teched all of our bikes, it doesn't seem like it would have caused any inconvenience. Still, rules are rules, so we did not make a stink about it at the track. In my post, I was merely expressing my disappointment over the way things went in that circumstance. Since the whole purpose of CCS is to allow competitors a place to have fun, maybe that rule could be ammended in the future to allow competitors to at least continue the race on another machine and take an automatic DQ.
Quote #2
I will look into your requests for refunds, if they were done before the opening of registration for the event, you are entitled to a refund less a $10 admin fee.
Thanks for looking into the refund situation. I did have the ladies in regestration note times on those cancellations, and they were all at the beginning of Saturday morning, before the first bike had entered the course. I understood the rule to be a refund minus $10, as you just said. When I called the office later to re apply the refund money, I was told differently.
for christs sake, read the rulebook. why would anyone compete in motorsports without knowing the rules involved.
Why would someone start a sentence without a capital letter? And you also forgot a question mark.
I'm sure he read the rule book nuckelhead, he was just stating how dissapointed he was at the outcome.
Free country I thought; just like you made your statement, anybody else can to...........for Christ sake.
QuoteWhy would someone start a sentence...
LOL!
;D
Ding-ding!
QuoteWhy would someone start a sentence without a capital letter? And you also forgot a question mark.
I'm sure he read the rule book nuckelhead, he was just stating how dissapointed he was at the outcome.
Free country I thought; just like you made your statement, anybody else can to...........for Christ sake.
because clown face, these aren't term papers, they are e-mails pasted on a board. now read the flippin' rule book, and when you are done, take a look at internet ettiquette. ;)
waaah waah waah!!! i can't read or comprehend the rulebook. waaaaaahh. ::)
Quotenow read the flippin' rule book,
You got a 2003 rule book? ??? How'd ya manage that?
QuoteYou got a 2003 rule book? ??? How'd ya manage that?
We went to registration and asked for one.
Dawn ;D
" Since the whole purpose of CCS is to allow competitors a place to have fun, maybe that rule could be ammended in the future to allow competitors to at least continue the race on another machine and take an automatic DQ. "
How would you feel if CCS allowed someone else to do this and they caused you to wreck or kept you from passing the person ahead of you at the finnish?
If you break down just deal with it.
It's been done in other organizations that I raced with. Didn't seem to cause a problem there. Just a suggestion. I am allowed to make suggestions, right? I'll stop if you say so.
"because clown face, these aren't term papers, they are e-mails pasted on a board. now read the flippin' rule book, and when you are done, take a look at internet ettiquette.uote][/quote]"
Must be hard to be a man and have a menstrual cycle. Next time try Kotex with wings.
My comment would be that the printed rule book should be followed to the letter but we all know that isn't the case. At the beginning of the year you can get a rule book just by asking and however the rules are stated in there then they should stay that way until the following year- NO exceptions.
Uuummm, I think somebody already said that.
Quote"because clown face, these aren't term papers, they are e-mails pasted on a board. now read the flippin' rule book, and when you are done, take a look at internet ettiquette.uote]"
Must be hard to be a man and have a menstrual cycle. Next time try Kotex with wings.
sounds like you know all about that stuff. ;)
yeah, that's what i would say if someone pointed out how silly i was. ::) now get off the web, and go RTFRB!!
Ding-ding...
And in this corner wearing wings.... 8)
Now Dave,
Don't get them going or before you know it, this board will look like some of the other BBS's out there.
Dawn ;) ;D
you can only hope dawn. :D
Quoteyou can only hope dawn. :D
Funny.... Hope wasn't the word I was looking for.
Dawn ;)
Just checked to see who they put down for my sponser in the ulgp at Blackhawk on June 1. Like I said before, unreal. If that's not proof that something is wrong then I don't know what is.
Thanks TZ-boy for bringing that to my attention.
Now, who was that, that said I was using the forum to complain? Looks like your favorite racing organization uses the forum to complain also; not only that, they were the FIRST ones to complain, since they wrote the first negative post in the results section.
You can't use the toilet with your tail in the way.
Maybe YOU can since you don't care how they treat you.
I'm officially retiring from this thread. When words turn ugly, I much prefer it to be in person...
K3
QuoteMy comment would be that the printed rule book should be followed to the letter but we all know that isn't the case. At the beginning of the year you can get a rule book just by asking and however the rules are stated in there then they should stay that way until the following year- NO exceptions.
I totaly agree!
39 1/2 Ha! ;D
Roxy! Saturday night! Be there! Beat Street Breakers "VS" Bronx Rockers!
LMAO I understand though the sponsor list is the only place in the computer program to leave a note to the computer operator to verify certain things that may be wrong with someones entry, signed original license app, no license on file, that a minor release from needs to be signed, or other non-normal procedure needs to be handled before a rider is "entered". Any stick it note or other would only go to a certain race or could get lost whereas the computer info is at all regions so you can't slip out of region and not get "caught" for certain things.
QuoteRoxy! Saturday night! Be there! Beat Street Breakers "VS" Bronx Rockers!
Gee, is that West Side Story music coming from the orchestra pit? (racers in all black leathers on one side, racers in multi colored leathers on the other, all in that signature jerome robbins choreographed crouch, snapping fingers and all...) 8) ;) ;D
When you're a Jet, you're a Jet all the way...
...from your first cigarette, to your last dying day..