Bad news for Midwest racers who might not think Heartland Park for Road America is a good trade.
According to CycleNews.com, the following release is from Formula USA...
Formula USA/CCS announced today that the August 8-10 Formula USA Championship Series, Championship Cup Series, and XSBA Freestyle round of competition at Elkhart Lake's Road America has been moved to Heartland Park-Topeka near Topeka Kansas. The event at Heartland Park-Topeka will take place on the same date, August 8-10.
Heartland Park Topeka will feature the exact same line-up of classes originally scheduled for Road America on August 8-10 including complete Formula USA, Championship Cup Series, and XSBA rounds of competition.
Premier classes on the schedule will include Formula USA Sportbike and Superbike classes, as well as Unlimited Grand Prix, Thunderbike, and the "Heartland 200" on Friday, August 8.
According to Kevin Elliott, Director of Competition, "Heartland Park provides a great central location for this classic mid-summer Pro-Am road race event, and we are very pleased to be able to bring this event to the Topeka area, which has hosted an array of professional motor sports events over the past decade."
All race entries for Road America will be applied to the Heartland Park-Topeka event, unless otherwise notifying CCS in advance.
For weekend schedules, ticket information and more... visit FormulaUSA.com.
I'd rather race at Road America, but Heartland Park is an 1 1/2 hours from my house. ;D ;D
Whew...
Thank goodness I didn't put my pre-entries in for that date.
Dawn :)
WHAT????? >:(
I live in Michigan now, and race in the Great Lakes Region. Road America is far enough as it is and the only chance of being at a FUSA event all season. Now it's going to be in Kansas?
Was the change due to construction issues or fees at Road America?
Matter of fact this puts both Mid-West FUSA rounds in the Great Plains Region more than the Mid-West or the Great Lakes Regions. And GP also gets Barber too. I guess this is the year to be in the GP Region.
May I ask that all GL Region Lightweight GP racers (all GL racers for that matter) boycott this round so the GL Regional championship(s) can at least be contested in our region.
I feel the same way about Gingerman and Barber. Great Plains my arse! (Road Am. too.)
Bummer. Guess we won't be going there. :(
Hopefully they are just moving the FUSA date and not making it a CCS MW date. Looking at the last schedule from BHF it state TBA on the August date.
Dawn ;)
I feel for ya. I guess I got spoiled living in Chicago. Now that I am 4.5 hours to the East, I'm starting to feel the pain.
The thing that really bites in the fact that I have set my vacation schedule (now I need 1-2 days more travel/recovery time) and budget for 10 rounds in the GL regional area (WI, IL, MI and part of MO). I was even planning on going to Barber just because it's a new track. I'm sure Topeka is nice, but doubt it's worth ($$$) my time.
Just look it up:
847 miles. Is it worth it?
Was this even announced in a CCS/FUSA newsletter?
QuoteWas this even announced in a CCS/FUSA newsletter?
Newsletters? We get newsletters? The only one we received was the Daytona/RA mailer.
Dawn :-/
Man does that SUCK!
I'm betting it's a $$$ thing and not a construction or "the fabulous motorsports" yada yada yada...
I was really hoping for some time at Road A since my last weekend I dropped +$400 in entry fees and then promptly blew my motor. No refund, not even a race credit...
AMA will at least offer a credit...
Heck, I wasn't even asking dollar for dollar... Give me a free entry to a blackhawk event...
So who wants to organize some ad-hoc racing at BHF on the friday practice days? Reasonable entry fees!!! I've got a stack of wood we can use too :-)
GAyyyyyy doooooooooood >:( >:(
Not to debase the flurishing track day organizations around the country, but I feel like that's where CCS is headed. Don't get me wrong it nice to have smaller fields to race in, but that only makes racing more expensive, not less, which in turn drives people away. Spread us too thin nation wide and the competition level drops, sponsors will lose interest, then we racers will have to seek out other organizations to spend our dollars on if we want to compete and form some sort of career for ourselves.
I think this is only another sign of the mismanagement of CCS/FUSA as a whole. Not saying K.E. is to blame or any of his subordanates, but as a whole I am disappointed to be affiliated with this disfunctional organization.
I think as racers, we deserve to have a lot more input into the decisions that are made on our behalf (i.e., entry fees, licensing fees, scheduling, news updates, etc.)
Why do we have to hear about stuff happening in our organization from the news? Would you like all of your friends and family to know you are about to get fired from watching the news before you have even been told what's happening? I doubt it.
I think if the GL and MW racers were given a choice as to whether we wanted it to stay within our region, that would have at least given us a chance to think about it.
Personally, I think the GL and possibly needs to be taken off listing for the Topeka round.
HAHAHAHAHA LOL.
Man this broken shoulder thing has been working out more than I EVER thought it would!!!
Who's down for competing in the JPRRC? (the Jim Ptak Road Racing Championship.) We'll hit all the tracks convenient to ME. BHF, Gateway, Grattan, Gingerman, Putnam, and RA if we can afford it. Might not be able to offer you contingency or prize money, but I'd hope to not have as many headaches....
Sign me up.
This will free up a weekend for me ..... Hmmm, guess I'll have to break out the golf clubs for that weeekend.
This reallllllllyyyy sucks. We had a bunch of pals making plans to go down to RA since it's only ~4 hours away, making it the close track to us. I don't think they want to go to Topeka. Heck, I don't think we do. Better go call Stumpy now.......
Jeez Louise.
According to the Heartland website, the same person who owns BHF took over Heartland April 3. Perhaps this is a factor...
I love the reference to formulausa.com but no info on the website regarding the schedule change. Am I just not seeing it? Sorry guys, I get annoyed when I don't have all the info.
I just really feel for the racers who don't frequent this board. How do they get their info?
OK--off to randmcnally.com to get my mileage charts....tropical Topeka....
Okay time for me to pipe in.... ;D
Riders Meeting at Gingerman Saturday... RA was brought up.
Race director states this was just a rumor, of course he said it in such a way it seemed like he was NOT supposed to speak about this.
If CCS pulls out of RA, I think I might just pull out of CCS.
I am still a little ticked off about the jacked up fee at RA for those of us who didn't preregister. >:(
As far as going to Kansas... I have my doubts that I will make that trip. If they added the date yet still kept the RA date, I would be more inclined to take the time to drive out there.
This makes little sense. CCS was bragging about record numbers at last year's RA/FUSA event. My guess is RA was raising the fees to some ungodly level, and oh by the way the new ownership of Heartland Park has a great relationship with CCS and needs some revenue to upgrade the track and facilities. In this scenario, CCS negotiated with RA for reasonable fees using Heartland Park as Plan B, RA didn't bite, so Plan B became reality.
Maybe the next shoe to drop is WERA gets Road America and CCS gets Putnam...since WERA may have worn their welcome out there. Or, maybe CRA would like a Road America event.
QuoteThis will free up a weekend for me ..... Hmmm, guess I'll have to break out the golf clubs for that weeekend.
You have money for anything unrelated to racing? Oh man... you're dipping into them charity funds aren't you! :o
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Quote>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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my thoughts (and probably nate's) exactly.
i guess they wont be getting my money. i can just barely get the 'rents to agree to letting me take the car to RA and BHF, but i dont think i could swing F***ing Kansas!!! >:(
i'm not even a racer and i see that CCS sux (sorry Tiff :-/)
-jennifer
EZ EZ
be nice!!!
QuoteThe thing that really bites in the fact that I have set my vacation schedule (now I need 1-2 days more travel/recovery time) and budget for 10 rounds in the GL regional area (WI, IL, MI and part of MO). I was even planning on going to Barber just because it's a new track. I'm sure Topeka is nice, but doubt it's worth ($$$) my time.
Just look it up:
847 miles. Is it worth it?
Heartland Park has been a topic several times recently and has brought about a variety of responses. I personally like the layout of the track and have raced there a number of times, even though it is one of the farthest tracks from me. I previously made the statement that I would like to race there again if they fixed the main flaw with that track - the cracks plagueing the track surface and the sealer used to cover them. The sealer that covers these cracks is like Jello and provides little traction, especially when hot or wet. It's almost hard to describe just how much of this stuff is on the track and how it can dictate your lines.
Otherwise you just have to be a little cautious when you transition from the last turn onto the dragstrip (which can be slippery, especially when wet!) due to the concrete walls along the sides of the dragstrip, which could sure use some Airfence where you transition from the last turn.
Heartland Park is not at the same level as RA and shouldn't require the extra fees we encounter there. Not too thrilled about the timing of this event at that location either, being that it will be in the heat of the summer, RA would be a better choice at that time of the season.
I will go to the event, but may not run ULGP due to the requirement of a FUSA upgrade to run a few of the normal regional classes(as discussed elsewhere) which I still think is BOGUS!
QuoteMaybe the next shoe to drop is WERA gets Road America and CCS gets Putnam...since WERA may have worn their welcome out there. Or, maybe CRA would like a Road America event.
H3ll I hear CCS wore out its welcome at Putman 2-3 yrs ago. :-/
This IS getting f*ing rediculous. Imagine how many CCS racers who didnt make Gingerman and dont read the board here, are going to be sitting outside RA's gate wondering WTF on Friday, Sat and Sunday.
ANyone got a YSR50, TTR125, CR80, or the like. You can road race them at Sugar River Raceway.
Easy, Jennifer. CCS as a whole doesn't suck, I think. There are some serious issues that people have, mostly with $$$. I think the MW, GP, and GL got messed up this year because of CCS running a ton of events. It made sense for them to. With things getting bigger, good turnout at most races, why not add more?
I bet RA did raise the $$$, and/or CCS is afraid of a poor turnout meaning the financial statment for that weekend would have a lot of parentheses. (sp)
Either way, I was looking forward to maybe doing a TC at RA, but I guess not. I'm not gonna be goin to Kansas, either. Hopefully CCS will learn from the experiences this year IF turnout stays meager for events.
WERA or CRA at RA sounds like a GREAT idea if CCS can't swing it. We'll see.
I'm new to CCS & racing as of this year, but am starting to have serious doubts about this organization. My questions is...Is the grass really greener with a different organization? If I change over to WERA or something like that, will I be seeing the same stuff we are seeing with CCS???
One way or another, I will not be driving all the way to Topeka...Its just too far. I'm really disapointed about not going to RA.
QuoteI'm new to CCS & racing as of this year, but am starting to have serious doubts about this organization. My questions is...Is the grass really greener with a different organization? If I change over to WERA or something like that, will I be seeing the same stuff we are seeing with CCS???
One way or another, I will not be driving all the way to Topeka...Its just too far. I'm really disapointed about not going to RA.
Go over to the WERA board and you'll find more bitching than here, generally. Recent examples are pulling an entire region, cancelling an event 1 week before, the track at Nashville, etc...
How is CRA I wonder? WSMC seems to have their act together as far as communication goes...but I noticed their summer grids aren't so big.
I guess our main concern as first year participants is that we are making a significant investment to participate. Some items in our budget must remain fluid (covering costs of repairs, etc.). Some items should be relatively easy to determine (travel costs) according to the schedule.
I just find it horribly unprofessional to release a schedule and then change a major date on it without a reason or warning and without formal notice to participants directly. I realize it is 2+ months away, but we figured out what we could do in February for cripes sake.
At least 20 people from our home town were planning to travel 4 hours to RA to spectate. Do the gate fee math there. They aren't going to Topeka.
After talking it over with Stumpy last night we decided to wait and see, but, it is 900 miles away now. Plus fees. And it's not RA. Eeeeesh. I really wish we didn't have to make this decision.
Maybe we should all go into denial and show up to race at RA in August with the others who didn't get the message. Fun times!!!!!
If the races weren't such a blast, this stuff would kill me.
Happy Tuesday ;D
QuoteHow is CRA I wonder? WSMC seems to have their act together as far as communication goes...but I noticed their summer grids aren't so big.
Both are very small, exclusive organizations... I believe CRA only runs at 2 tracks, and that's up from just running at 1...
So, we all complain about CCS, but at least we get to experience a few different tracks.
I'm sure somebody could come out with a BHF only race organization which would be reasonable and run like 4-6 events per year, but would we be satisfied with that???
Me, I like Road A, Gingerman and the occassional Gateway. Mid America I could do without, but I'll still run it for variety...
Just checked the mileage for me... 652... Exceeds my 500M threshold for "this sucks and is just too far".
If it came down to it, I'd rather run at ONE track than NO tracks, but there's a lot to be said about variety... Just ask my wife :o
Quotemy thoughts (and probably nate's) exactly.
i guess they wont be getting my money. i can just barely get the 'rents to agree to letting me take the car to RA and BHF, but i dont think i could swing F***ing Kansas!!! >:(
i'm not even a racer and i see that CCS sux (sorry Tiff :-/)
-jennifer
<inner dialogue> must be tactful must be tactful must be tactful must be tactful must be tactful
:-[
i guess that came out poorly, and i'm sorry.:-/ i understand that CCS has it's problems, seemingly more than anyother organization (which brings up the question of whether or not CCS is really as dysfunctional as racers say it is or the racers are just more vocal about the problems they have with CCS). I know that problems that i and other people have with CCS are not Tiffany's or Kevin E.'s fault (or the race directors or the cornerworkers or anyone involed in CCS(except for those people who make the desicions like this one, obviously, and even then they are just doing their job)).
i guess this is a good time to say "thanx" to everyone at CCS who works so hard to make the best of CCS and pulling everything together so that people can race.
i'm sorry this came across the way it did. i didnt mean "sux" in the RAWR kind of way. i meant it in the "man, that sux" said with a slight laugh kind of way. i should have been more clear. tact is not always my strong point.
sorry all :-[ :-/
jennifer
Anyone in the GL up for racing int he 8-hour WERA National Endurance Race at Grattan on July 19th.
Ok, first, the record setting entries were two years ago, 2001, at RA.
The management team changed a few years ago. They like their own packaging so much that they increased the cost of the track. You're gonna look at a daily price STARTING at $13k to $15k, add more for a spectator event like AMA or FUSA. CCS race would be less.
For those of you not watching things in motorsports, CART and RA had a big problem. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Ray Irwin, the owner of Blackhawk Farms, did buy Heartland Park Topeka. The layout is great, but it is different than other tracks, so some can have problems with the cracks and sealer. I haven't had problems there myself in the fall down department, but I can understand problems faced by those that have no clue about suspension set up.
Putnam Park's problems with CCS go way back. There were huge safety issues with the track. A motorcycle racer died there. It's a car track that is used for motorcycle racing. The original owner had personal issues with then CCS owner Roger Edmunson. The original owner had issues, in general, might I say. He died recently, and his kids now own the track. CCS did make an attempt to have some races there, but the kids are carrying the issues against CCS, even though Roger sold it to SFX, and SFX was bought by CCE.
As for the Jim Petak series, you need to start now if you even want to get a schedule. And bring lots of money for insurance and track rental.
Road America is 90 minutes from my house. Heartland Park Topeka is ten. Don't care for RA, I like HPT. Still blows, but that's the way it is.
I guess most of you are really pampered. There was never the amount of local road races ever available for me when I was starting out. The closest track to me was BFR in 1987, and it was 442 miles away. It was just the way it was. Unfortunately, racing is never inexpensive or easy.
Even though the surface needs a lot of work, I'm glad to see Heartland Park added to the schedule. It's the second-closest track (behind Gateway) to me.
I probably would go if it were part of the original schedule. Afterall, I still plan on attending MAM in July :P. I was even going to make the trip to Barber in August, the week after the original RA date, just for the experience. Now I think that the intended changes will definitely require me to change my plans, especially since I am chasing a championship, and not just going to track week after week because I want to get out of the house.
I think it's unreasonable for us to bend to CCS's will with at least getting a warning that something like this may happen. Can anyone share the details of the location move?
Here's an idea:
- make it a truly multiregional event where anyone in the country can come out.
- each racer pre-selects which region they want their points applied towards.
This way CCS won't lose their shirts on the event and any racer that is interested in racing in Topeka can get some special dispensation for supporting THEIR organization.
CCS should really do something special for ANY CCS racer who decides to participate in this race:
- travel money bonus to the top 3 in all purse paying classes (CCS racers only)
- one free, non-purse-paying race entry if you pre-enter before July 1st (two free if you race more than 7 races)
Quote<inner dialogue> must be tactful must be tactful must be tactful must be tactful must be tactful
:-[
i guess that came out poorly, and i'm sorry.:-/ i understand that CCS has it's problems, seemingly more than anyother organization (which brings up the question of whether or not CCS is really as dysfunctional as racers say it is or the racers are just more vocal about the problems they have with CCS). I know that problems that i and other people have with CCS are not Tiffany's or Kevin E.'s fault (or the race directors or the cornerworkers or anyone involed in CCS(except for those people who make the desicions like this one, obviously, and even then they are just doing their job)).
i guess this is a good time to say "thanx" to everyone at CCS who works so hard to make the best of CCS and pulling everything together so that people can race.
i'm sorry this came across the way it did. i didnt mean "sux" in the RAWR kind of way. i meant it in the "man, that sux" said with a slight laugh kind of way. i should have been more clear. tact is not always my strong point.
sorry all :-[ :-/jennifer
The other race org's have the same problems. Look at the AMA right now trying to get the class situation worked out. Nobody likes the stupid 330cc 2-stroke instead of 250GP idea, but they are still gonna do it. WERA is a bit different, in that the guy that runs the thing (Mongo) is readily available to chat with and he also will make changes based on rider input, even from the BBS board. They still have their problems, but the actual decision maker is easier to make contact with, that's all. I love the fact that the CCS gives us the opportunity to race, and I realize that no org is perfect, I just wish they were a little more open to rider input. Once again, that's why I like the Florida region...Henry is accessible and very open to suggestions, and he is basically the decision maker down here. That's how we got our current format, from rider suggestions. Just my .02.
CCS and Road America tried very hard to make things work for August. The track has certain financial requirements this time of the year just as CCS/F-USA/CCE does and the details couldn't be worked out to both parties satisfaction. The negotiations are on-going but now we are talking about an August 2004 date for CCS/F-USA instead of 2003. To the best of our knowledge, the 2004 CCS event for April is already on the schedule for both organizations.
The reason for the press release notification is we believed speed was more important than "proper channels". Every licensed rider will be receiving a newsletter in the mail within the next 10-14 days, serving as the official notification to all licensed riders. We try not to change schedules once we release the rulebooks and license packets, but invariably with the way the days economy is, we have to be more fluid in our ability to react to changing conditions. We did not add a race to the schedule, merely moved its location.
HPT is owned by Mike and Ray Irwin, of Blackhawk Farms, and while they cannot promise it will all be completed by August, they have assured us they are repairing the "snakes" (the old owners idea of track repair) as they can. Ray mentioned they might be able to get the ones in the turns and braking areas first, and then the rest as time allows. I trust him; he has never let me down before.
One thing about Heartland in August, you know it will be hot. The last time we ran there in April or October, it was so hot you couldn't breathe one day and so cold you couldn't move the next, so at least we all know what to pack for clothes.
Thanks for your support and patience
QuotePutnam Park's problems with CCS go way back. There were huge safety issues with the track. A motorcycle racer died there. It's a car track that is used for motorcycle racing.
Hey Dave - just a point of clarification - do you know what specifically were the "huge" safety issues with Putnam? The reason I ask is I heard about the guy who was killed there, and the story I heard had little to do with any inherent track safety issues. Procedureal, maybe, but not the track itself.
I like Putnam - no, I love Putnam - and I would like nothing more than for CCS to add it to the lineup. WERA is racing there the same weekend as the August RA event, and I joined WERA only because I wanted to race at Putnam. The rest of their "Central" region schedule includes tracks that are a minimum of like 10-12 hours from MIlwaukee (with the exception of Grattan, I believe).
Anyway, Putnam is waaay cool. 8)
Tshort has the right idea. The cost of a second racing licence is a drop in the bucket of my overall race budget, and allows me to pick and choose from 10-15 tracks and 20-30 events a year. For example, I was leading in points for WERA, so I went to WERA Grattan last weekend. THe track was even worse than I remebered, so after 1st practice I packed up and drove 1 hour to Gingerman. Unpacked and ran the solo 20 (finished 3rd) and won LWSB on Sunday. Best $100 bucks I ever spent.
Kevin/SD,
thanks for saying what needed to be said, maybe
we can stop whining now....traveling sux nomatter
how far...but we need not break ourselves just to
race at a "super" track like RA. unfortunate for some
a blessing for others. BTW, I hear the best "gentlemens" club in the midwest is located
near Heartland. ;) ;)
Benj.
Quote Unpacked and ran the solo 20 (finished 3rd) and won LWSB on Sunday. Best $100 bucks I ever spent.
If you are going to run CCS, you need to start calling the Saturday 1/2 hour race GT, not Solo 20 ;)
Thanks for the reply K.E.
Care to comment on my thread?
Heartland Park Round Ideas
http://www.racemotorcycles.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=ccs1;action=display;num=1053440816
QuoteHey Dave - just a point of clarification -
I like Putnam - no, I love Putnam - and I would like nothing more than for CCS to add it to the lineup. WERA is racing there the same weekend as the August RA event, and I joined WERA only because I wanted to race at Putnam. The rest of their "Central" region schedule includes tracks that are a minimum of like 10-12 hours from MIlwaukee (with the exception of Grattan, I believe).
Anyway, Putnam is waaay cool. 8)
I know that Kevin Elliott has tried many times on numerous occasions to try to secure a date at Putnam, but, like his post above stated..."details couldn't be worked out to both parties satisfaction"...
Kevin is obviously a good guy, sometimes other issues get in the way.
QuoteBTW, I hear the best "gentlemens" club in the midwest is located
near Heartland. ;) ;)
Benj.
where's that puking smily when i need it... ahh... here it is...(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cycleforums.com%2Fforums%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fpuke.gif&hash=b2d42e0b9eeaafbb3d0943bf0cc1899e0e834e03)
gee, thanx for the info Benj ::) :P... now me (and nate! ) definately wont be goin anywhere near there... lol ;) :)
-jennifer
Personally I think CCS is much better today than it was 8 - 10 years ago. No it is not perfect, but it is better.
Travel is nothing new. 1994 was the only year I went for points. Raced at RA, Brainerd, Heartland park, BHF (4 or 5 times), and Grattan (4 or 5 times).
ISTR that there was more like 3 or 4 motorcycle deaths at Putnum in the fist 3 or 4 years. The last corner was reconfigured at least twice. After CCS went the first tme, there was a vote held at a riders meeting at the next race. Racers voted to not return to Putnum due to poor facilities and safety.
Had surgury today, typing one handed sucks.
Benji
Hey if I go to Topeka are you going to take me to one of the gentlemens clubs as repayment for welding your frame the last time at Blackhawk?
LOL hey i hope you got that thing fixed the right way instead of a quick fix, sorry i couldn't spend more time on it for you.
Craig
Oh payment would bein the form of one lap dance
Would Benji be giving the lap dance ???
QuoteRay Irwin, the owner of Blackhawk Farms, did buy Heartland Park Topeka. The layout is great, but it is different than other tracks, so some can have problems with the cracks and sealer. I haven't had problems there myself in the fall down department, but I can understand problems faced by those that have no clue about suspension set up.
I had a freind that crashed at HP due to loosing traction on the sealer strips, but I personally have never crashed at HP. I have seen a number of racers either go down or need to change their underwear after having a bad encounter with the sealer strips. I usually just warn people about them so they are aware ahead of time that the strips can cause a change in traction when crossing over them.
I like the track layout at Heartland Park for the most part and look forward to racing there again (hopefully the weather won't be unbearable or producing Tornado's as in the past! :o ).
I too will have to take extra time off work for traveling now that the event will not be at RA like originally scheduled, which is somewhat of a pain in the butt due to the Barber event being the next weekend, but it's worth going! It's good to hear that the new owners are going to do some track improvements, a definate plus for all of us! ;D
Well, I would say its not an issue of worrying about low turnout and ticket sales or they would never have gotten involved at NHIS. We haven't had a positive turn out at our national since '99.
For me, I will go and support the race at Heartland Park Topeka. I've got a long history there. I'll probably skip the race at Barber now. Wanted to go. I know the owners of both tracks, but HPT falls under the Mid-West banner, along with FUSA, so that's where I will go.