OK....
I read through the 2003 rule book which states that if we run Thunderbike (formerly known as Heavyweight Sportsman) and it is a Formula USA race date, you have to have a FUSA license. - - An additional $50.00 if you already have a CCS license.
Not only that. Your race fees are $65.00 more (if you run three or more races in a normal CCS weekend) because it is a "purse paying class." Whoo Hooo - Factory bikes vs. privateers. ::) Yeah, we have a great shot of getting a purse payout, have you seen my factory rig?
Plus, the MW is the only region that has TWO FUSA dates. Gee thanks!
So lets see - - if we really want the CCS points for this class, it's going to cost us an additional $180.00.
Sorry..... The amount of points to be earned just isn't worth it for that kind of money.
Hey CCS - "Can you hear me now?" This is club racing. If FUSA guys want to race with us, fine, just don't screw us in the process. It doesn't feel good.
Dawn >:(
Why penalize the CCS racers to support the FUSA racers. If we have to run together fine, but score us separately and don't charge us extra. What chance does a CCS amatuer have against a FUSA factory bike?
If a person who races CCS want a shot at the purse, they can buy the license and pay the additional entry fees. We now have transponders and wonderful computer programs so there shouldn't be any problem doing this.
Dawn
I raced Thunderbike at Daytona in the rain. My problem was during qualifing my transponder didn't work so I was grided last. My lap times were such that I would have been grided in the top 15. I ended up in 16th position but there was a red flag on the 7th lap so we were scored to the end of the last complete lap which was 20th overall and 1st ametuer. I know a couple of CCS rider finished well in the top 10 agaist the Factory Buell's. Jerry Wood and Alex Ferraria did very well and in the money. With the new power to weight ratio rule it may even the field a bit. I guess my point is as a CCS club rider its fun to take the opportunity to race against everybody in that kind of race. I wouldn't drive all over the country to do it, but twice a year at Daytona it make sense for me. It's cool to test yourself against the experts and a field of that depth. Plus you have the added bonus of maybe getting some cash back.
Yea... Good for you, I'm glad you had fun.
In the MW we have Ed Key (number 5, yellow SV) I'm sure you seen him at Daytona, he is very good and very fast and wins most of the races he enters. We have the pleasure of racing with him every race weekend.
The class of racers we have in the MW is outstanding! We know that this is the year to try win a championship in the LW classes because we will have to move to expert next year. We are only going to be able to obtain this championship by finishing well in our classes and going to each race date.
You went to Daytona and chose to race with the FUSA guys. We don't have a choice. If you run the MW schedule and you run this class... Pony up the additonal $$$ or you don't get the points. Sounds like blackmail to me.
Some may say $180.00 is small amount of money, but it depends who you are. We will not race on credit cards or credit. If we cannot pay, we don't play.
In our world, every penny counts.
Dawn
PS Sorry for the scarcasm. I'm just a little irritated, not at you, but at this whole mess.
For the record, there are no "factory" bikes in Thunderbike. And Buell doesn't have a factory racing team.
That said, there are some very strong dealer-backed teams, like Hal's H-D, Kosco H-D, Tilley's H-D and Harding H-D, and other privateers like Hoban Brothers, all gunning for the Buell contingency dollars.
I look at it as a rare chance to practice, qualify and race with some very talented riders. Try it, you might learn something.
Paul James
CCS/FUSA #247
Does everyone miss my point?
Yes, ride with better riders and it will make you better. This I know! BUT, give us the choice!
We had no say last year at Road America. Heavyweight Sportsman is going to be run with FUSA Thunderbike, and oh by the way, you will have to pay a higher entry fee because of this. OK we sucked it up and did it.
This year - no more Heavyweight Sportsman, only Thunderbike, and oh by the way, you will have to pay a higher entry fee, PLUS, you also have to purchase a FUSA license this year. Sorry, you can't run Thunderbike just to get the CCS points, you must buy the license. To top it off, the MW has two FUSA dates in your region this year. Lucky us.
Oh... It's a spectator event so the gate fees (we pay to bring Paul's parents besides ourselves) are higher.
Oh... Those aren't factory teams, they are privateers just like you. Yeah right. See my semi over there? ::)
My whole point is that the CCS riders who run this class in the MW have no choice than to pony up the extra bucks to get the CCS pionts in a class they race in the entire season. Why should they?
Still pissed off Dawn >:(
I dont regularly race Thunder bike in CCS down here because its a combined class here and we don't get ameteur points. Ed's real fast thats for sure. I race LT superbike, GT lights, and Light GP every race. I've been meaning to enter either supertwin or thunderbike but somethings always got in the way. I don't get it can't you race 4 other races a weekend if your bikes SS legal, mayde I'm missing the issue. I don't even mess with thunberbike, I just did it in Daytona because I felt I had a chance at a top 10 and I wanted to go through qualiying.
I just missed you last post, sorry.
Better Question what bike are you on?
Paul has a stock SV 650. The only mods are to the suspension. That's it. Plus it has three race seasons on it and it's never had a rebuild.
These were classes he raced in last year:
Lightweight Super Sport
Lightweight Superbike
Thunderbike
GT Lights
Lightweight GP
This year we knew would be our best opportunity to strive towards a championship so we looked at the classes that he did the best in last year and concentrated on those. These classes happened to be LWSS, LWSB and Thunderbike. As any person in this sport knows, this isn't cheap to do. We are balancing our finances between home, retirement (gotta start saving now), the kid and racing.
So.... When this situation arises.... it makes me a bit upset. There is enough expenses in this sport without this additional one.
Thanks for asking,
Dawn
You comin down here for the race of champions?
QuoteYou comin down here for the race of champions?
LOL!!!
No - We can't afford that. 1200+ miles to get there with a motor home that gets 7.5 mpg, the time off of work, and the race season leaves us with $0.00 by October.
Dawn ;)
The only reason I'm able to go is its only 3 hours from the house. Sounds nice to race with a motorhome. Good place to relax between races. I only can afford to race 3 races a weekend. Thats 100% commitment for the whole year but only 3 races a weekend. Man, I'd forget about the ThunderBike thing and save it for a speacial occation. We dont get anything for being the top ametuer down here, so I never gave it any thought. We are given class Championships. As an expert if you want that 1 plate you need to run a lot of races more than 5 a weekend. It would be cool, but 3 races is plenty for me.
Racing with a motor home is the only way we can go. There are three of us, Paul, myself and our daughter Renee. The closest track is 1-1/2 hours away and our home track for the MW is 4-1/4 hours away. Doing the math, it is cheaper to make the motor home payments than to hotel it. Also, the motor home interest is deductible in our situation as a second home mortgage. Plus, when the family comes (the in-laws), the motor home is really convenient.
We only get a trophy for winning the class championship as an amatuer, but it still says "Champion" and that is quite an acomplishment.
Dawn :)
PS We only run three classes a weekend this year too. Last year we ran more classes per weekend, but fewer number of weekends were attended.
I confronted this topic previously, but from the Unlimited GP and Sportbike classes point of view which are also in the same situation as the Thunderbikes. My complaints were similar to Dawns and also brought up the insurance aspect of this too (http://www.racemotorcycles.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=ccs1;action=display;num=1051803557).
I am in the same boat with not having a choice if I want to follow the points in any of those classes. In order to stay in the REGIONAL points you have to enter a NATIONAL Pro class, somethings really wrong with that! The whole issue of racing with the Pro's should be a choice, not a requirement. The REGIONAL races that I have been in that had Pro's riding in them have been some of the most eye opening indeed. It's cool to see how it's supposed to be done, but I have also had numerous bad experiences with this also. For example, at the RA event a few weeks ago, I had a Pro guy buzz me really close during a WARM-UP lap and cut me off so bad I almost crashed! I just don't understand why someone who is supposed to be at the top of his game would do this to someone who was riding a predictable line?
If I wanted to race Pro I would go after that, but at this moment I'm not interested in that so I race regional (to each their own!). I agree with Dawn on this subject and wonder why it's set-up this way?
QuoteI dont regularly race Thunder bike in CCS down here because its a combined class here and we don't get ameteur points. Ed's real fast thats for sure. I race LT superbike, GT lights, and Light GP every race. I've been meaning to enter either supertwin or thunderbike but somethings always got in the way. I don't get it can't you race 4 other races a weekend if your bikes SS legal, mayde I'm missing the issue. I don't even mess with thunberbike, I just did it in Daytona because I felt I had a chance at a top 10 and I wanted to go through qualiying.
I just missed you last post, sorry.
Better Question what bike are you on?
I get hosed on Thunderbike because I have no VIN #. I wish they'd treat it like Supertwins, especially since my bike was originally built for AMA Pro Thunder and was once legal. Oh well...3 races for now will have to do. At least I don't have to deal with you every race...stay outta Supertwins so I can win one. ;D
You got a deal, I'll race thunderbike and you race supertwins. I figured I got to race Superbike without you. The way I look at it is I feel I can beat anyone on an SV, but when you add a TZ 250 or your 92hp 295 duc in the mix it gets me a little concerned. :o
;D Daytona here we come! I can't win the Supertwins there, though. Down like 30-40 hp to a 996 or 998, but I'll sure give it the old college try. :D You gonna ride at Moroso on Saturday? I'll probably just come over on Sunday morning early since they are running drags that Saturday too, I hear. If you can, save me a spot for a 6X12 to squeeze in where there's some power. ;)
Not sure yet abour saturday. I don't need power so I can't help with the pits, Sorry.
I thought you were pitted by power there last time. I have a generator I borrow from the power tool company my dad works for, but would rather not run it and just plug in. ;D
I've got a generator in fact I use it at Jennings because the power kept triping. I pit next or across for Prieto. I think Chris Boy and gang are going to pit next to me. I dont think I'm going on Saturday but that mey change after Sawn gets back. Let me know if I can help with anything.
I got a generator to use, so I'll be good to go for sure now. I had one at Jennings but didn't need it. It belongs to the company my father works for, and the owner's kind of a dick, so I didn't want to use it unless I had to. This time I got one from a buddy, so I'll be cool. Thanks again for the DZUS, and if you tell me where to get one I can replace it for you. ;)
By the way, I think I'm gonna enter race 19...MW GP...if you're up to it, it's another chance for us to have at it and probably show some 600's the fast way around too! ;D
QuoteYou got a deal, I'll race thunderbike and you race supertwins. I figured I got to race Superbike without you. The way I look at it is I feel I can beat anyone on an SV, but when you add a TZ 250 or your 92hp 295 duc in the mix it gets me a little concerned. :o
Well i have to race against you in 3 classes. Me and my stock SV 70 hp against your 80 something hp and Mighty ducs bike in 2 races. Im just glad i dont have you guys in my supersport race. Gives me a lil breather ;D. I have a blast racing with you guys I have to work my butt a lil harder to keep up with the HP but hey thats what racings all about. I figure ill still run 4 classes hey its seat time. I feel i can run with any SV its all on the rider i dont care if you have all the HP in the world. It makes it that much better when i beat you guys. ;D
Very True
That's why I'm racing with the 600's this weekend. I gotta see if I can do anything other than park it in the slow corners and then use the HP on everybody. I feel like my corner speed is getting better at a rapid pace, but I still have a ways to go. I'm fast in the fast corners, I just don't carry enough speed into the slow ones. Hey Mike...think it's a good or bad idea for me to practice with the bigger bikes this weekend. Just curious on your opinion. Seat time, seat time, seat time...lol. If I can just keep the bike running and out of the canal at Moroso (only wildlife area I haven't tested yet) I'll get more seat time than I have been getting. :)
We don't need to add puddle jumper to you list of nick names. I practice with the 600 at Jennings in the afternoon becuase the speed differectial gets dangerous at the end of the straight with the Vintage guys. I start with the combined group to get warmed up them I practice with the ametuers. The problem is that the faster of the SVs are faster through the corners than the ameturs on the 600, 750, and 1000. Those guys will point and shoot the bikes and us the HP. Thats why you see less of a time difference at jennings vs moroso or homestead. I was almost into the 22 last time at jennings and I think Shaw was in the 21's, but Shaw should be in the 40's and we run in the 46 - 48 range at Moroso. Just remember what you see at Jennings on the lightweight bike only happens there. The 600, 750, 1000s are alot faster at other tracks. At least it sounds good in theory. Maybe I'm totally wrong. I do know that Barney runs 36's at Moroso and 26's and Homestead and I can barely run 48's and 36's which is at least 10's off his pace. At jennings the record is officailly a 16.2 and Soreinson, Sorry Chuck, ran a 15.8 on a clean track. I can run 23 and I hope to run 22 next time we are there. Thats only a 6 second differential.
Just sum info to think about. to answer your question, yes it will help to run with the 600's because it present a whole different group of riders and situation for you to deal with. :-/
The tech guys don't give you a hard time going out with the other group when you do it? Do you have to change your sticker? I'd probably want to ride my first two with the LW and then one or two in the afternoon with the AM group, but then back to the LW for Sunday morning warm-ups. What is the procedure I need to follow? Thanks again for the info.
If your running fast enough lap times they'll let you in. You have to change stickers and when you change thats it. You will have to practice with the AM's in the morning
Thanks...I'll probably just stay in the LW then. I usually go pretty slow in the morning warm-up before the races and don't want to get run over in the AM group...lol.
Ill probably join you mike I wish i wouldve known about it at Jennings i would of done the same thing. I agree with you on your theory about the big bikes at jennings compared to other tracks.