what would u say would be the perfect bike for a bigginner?R6,GSX-R600, etc....................?
Unless you have alot of time on a bike in the dirt/ice...
My humble most recomendation would be a SV650.
Oh if only I had money... I would definitely go with either a SV or R6. R6 rocks the middle weight but SV can race in sooo many classes.
DUCATI 748. You can race almost any class, including the SUPERTWINS class which is always fun and one of the safest classes to race. Plus, a v-twin will allow you to be sloppy with your shifting until you learn the tracks and everything else about racing. You can come out of a corner at 5000 rpm and it will pull (try that on an r6 or CBR).
The front-end feel is magnificent and the brakes are top-shelf. The stock suspension is 95% as good as any revalved race setup or aftermarket suspension. At tracks like BHF (last year), Grattan, Gingerman, Gateway, etc. a 748 would run with the 750's since the straight away is relatively short and corner speed was important.
Don't let people convince you the Ducatis are too expensive to race. You can buy a 748 for the same price as a late model 600. Check out e-bay and you'll find spare parts are always available, no matter what you need.
I raced two 748's and a 996 over the past few years and loved them. I won an amateur Supertwins Championship on a bone stock (except for Arrow slip-ons) 2000 748. I did not have any suspension work done and never touched the motor. It had 3500 street miles on it when I purchased it at a salvage auction. Great bike!
SV. Buy one already set up for $5-6k, and go racing. There is no less expensive way to get in, and there is no more versatile bike in terms of being competitive in multiple classes.
748? I have one. Was going to race it, but came to realize how spendy it is to set up, and then to fix when you crash. Oh, and it's not very competitive in the classes it is legal in, Supertwins perhaps not withstanding (but 99x's are legal in that class, too - ouch).
SV --- It's been a fun bike to learn to go fast on that's relatively easy on tires/crash parts, and it's competitive if you are as a rider.
I never understand why people think it is ridiculously expensive to setup a Ducati. Race bodywork costs about the same as other models and so does the GP Tech fairing stay, exhaust choice, e-prom or Power Commander. That is really all you need. You could add after-market rearsets and a quick-change sprocket carrier, but those are not necessary. Ducatis already come with steel braided brake lines and the OEM clip-ons use standard replaceable handlebar tubes. The stock chain on a 748 is already 520 o-ring and like I said, the stock Showa suspension and even the cheapest Sachs rear shock perform very well on the track. Even if you chose to send the forks to Traxxion and buy an aftermarket rear shock, it is no more expensive than other bikes. Thinks like fuel tanks, forks, wheels, etc are all about the same as Japanese parts on e-bay. Lockhart-Phillips carries cheap replacement clutch and brake levers as well as Speedscreens. The bike had adjustable rear ride height and some models have adjustable steering geometry. What more could you ask for?
As far a 996's, I beat plenty of them on my 748 at BHF and the other small MW tracks.
QuoteWhat more could you ask for?
And it's
competitive (and legal) in which classes?
My 944 (slower than a nice 748 ) is competitive in Supertwins, so the 748 has to be! I have run at the front with RC51's and 996's, etc before a sticking throttle cable sent me off track at Homestead (Horsepower friendly track) and would've probably won at Jennings last weekend if not for a crash the race before. 748 is a great bike, but I don't think it's a good beginners bike. But what do I know...lol? As long as it's in the budget and the rider is comfortable on it, buy what you want...IMHO. :)
QuoteUnless you have alot of time on a bike in the dirt/ice...
My humble most recomendation would be a SV650.
Ive spent a crap load of time in the dirt Raced motocross since i was 11 was a privateer pro and i ride a SV nothing like kicking the crap outta guys on bigger bikes and its cheaper to run especially compared to a Ducati. ;D.
Let me chime in on this one. I race a SV and a 748 thats been punched to 800cc. For a newbe you cant beat the SV. The 748 is competive in MWSB, MWSS, MWGP, I have beaten plenty of R6s and GSXRs, its competive in Supertwins I have beaten TL1000, RC51s, 996s. It mostly comes down to the rider with the AMs. The SV, you put gas in it and go. If you can work on the Ducati and have access to cheap parts you would be one step ahead of the game. To me it depends on what floats your boat and stirs your emotion, if you love ducatis , by all means find one for the best price you can and go racing. If you want to get into racing the easiest, cheapest way go with the SV. I would no way get into the MW classes just starting out, too many wannabes in those class. You really cant go wrong starting out with an SV and in the right hands they are very fast. Just look at the top experts in the Mid-atlantic and southeast, they are on SVs. Darren D. is fast as H$#& on one. I should know he kicked my butt all last year. ::)
I also own one of each. Seems to be a great combo. The SV is much better all around, and totally dominant in it's classes. The748 dominates nothing.
The 748 can run middleweight well, but the 600's do have a small edge. They just have a little more power and speed. As far as beating 996's goes, i do that all day on my SV. I got 3rd in heavy twins on a superstock SV at VIR. It is a fact that most guys that ride Ducs (most, not all) are just slow. They are more costly so the guys that run them are doing so for reasons other than winning. No matter how much you have done to a Duc, you would be better off putting the same money into a jap bike.
But one thing the Duc has is style, tons of it. Sometimes I go out just to look at the bike. If racing is more to you than just trying to win, they are hard to beat. I love my SV, don't get me wrong. But as the bridgestone guy so eloquently put it, they have no soul. It's a Suzuki, what do you want.
...they have no soul.
a TZ250 is the perfect bike.
Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell, Buell.... By the way, did I mention Buell?! ;D ::) And no nasty comments from you Rob! :-X
I thought the TZ125 was the perfect bike but the TZ250 is a close second. Honestly you will learn more and faster on a 125 than any other bike simply because you get instant feedback that what you did is wrong. Take the wrong line in a corner and you will notice that the next few corners are much slower where as an SV or any other bike for that matter are forgiving in that aspect. The 125's are also great because theoretically you will never stop learning. Sure they require scheduled maintenance but you also know every time that the bike is ready to go and you aren't giving up anything by riding atired motor. The fact that tires seem to last forever keeps the costs in check also.
748 748 748. if you are smart when buying parts it can be just as cheap as a jap bike. Trust me I know I have broke alot of parts this past year (ask SuperDuck). God bless e-bay!!!!!!!!!! I must admit an SV is alot lighter and probably a better bike to learn on forget about being competetive. Good luck with whatever you decide.
Wow, who revived this thread? ???
Keep in mind I said the 748 is a great bike if most of the tracks you visit are short and tight. I did not enjoy the 748 at Road America. Oh, it was fun and all, but it frustrates me to be passed so easily on those long straights! In contrast, BHF, Gingerman and Gateway were so much fun and I I did not give up much on the straights and the bike was so good in the corners!
The 748's are even cheaper now than they were in May when this thread was first started.
The SV is a great bike. I don't question this at all. Out of curiousity how is the buell XB9 and XB12 compair?
Jeff
Right! Inside that beats the motor of H-D...
Maintenance....vibration....AHAHAHAHAHAAAAHHH!
QuoteMaintenance....vibration....AHAHAHAHAHAAAAHHH!
But we like it like that Dave! Thats half the fun! :-/ Oh... and you forgot to mention the noise we make! Yeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! (can you hear me now?) ;)
BRRRR, Potato, potato, potato,....BRRR,...clank, tato, patato, clunk (Rod.)
;D
Don't you hate it when you're about the pass a Buell and it feels like you're getting shot in the chest with a freaking air gun. ;D
QuoteDon't you hate it when you're about the pass a Buell and it feels like you're getting shot in the chest with a freaking air gun. ;D
:o ;D ;)
No, it's a pellet gun...pieces of valve and valve seat coming from and exhaust.
At least they only run on one cylinder. 8)
QuoteBRRRR, Potato, potato, potato,....BRRR,...clank, tato, patato, clunk (Rod.)
Who was that masked man?? 8) ;D
QuoteNo, it's a pellet gun...pieces of valve and valve seat coming from and exhaust.
At least they only run on one cylinder. 8)
Why iz yous pickin ons me!! :-[ "sniff... sniff"
QuoteBRRRR, Potato, potato, potato,....BRRR,...clank, tato, patato, clunk (Rod.)
During the F-USA Team Challenge at MAM I believe Super Dave himself spun a bearing aboard the class leading SV 650.
Meanwhile we just kept on chugging away aboard the Buell.
No way we would have won that race, or the GT Lights Team Challenge National Championship without the XB's excellent reliability.
Thank you Paul!!! Where the hell have you been? They have been picking on me all day! ;) Well Dave... Is there some truth to that? :o lol!
Dave, you shouldnt pick on old man Mark. ;D
Thats my job. ;D ;D ;D ;D
QuoteThank you Paul!!! Where the hell have you been? They have been picking on me all day! ;) Well Dave... Is there some truth to that? :o lol!
True, something happened inside. Don't know what, but the motor was sourced from some awful place...LOL! I think its probably related to that fad of liquid cooling. We did finish second. ;D
QuoteDave, you shouldnt pick on old man Mark. ;D Thats my job. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Is there a big red target on my leathers or what? Dang! lol ;)
QuoteTrue, something happened inside. Don't know what, but the motor was sourced from some awful place...LOL! I think its probably related to that fad of liquid cooling. We did finish second. ;D
The truth will set you free!! lol ;)
QuoteIs there a big red target on my leathers or what? Dang! lol ;)
Yep. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
BTW got a suprise for you Mark next season. ;D ;D
QuoteYep. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
BTW got a suprise for you Mark next season. ;D ;D
Oh God... what now? ??? ???
QuoteOh God... what now? ??? ???
You'll see. ;D ;D ;D
Oh BTW 500th post. ;D ;D ;D
Congrats on your 500th! By the way, your helmet pic on your posts scares me!!!!!
QuoteCongrats on your 500th! By the way, your helmet pic on your posts scares me!!!!!
My crew chief can scare ya. He'd just chew on ya and lick ya to death. :D
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rpracing.org%2Fpup6.jpg&hash=3c6500ebe556aed484c7b21da7d9f12d0ee921ef)
O.k., now that you enlarged it, I'm not scared anymore. That's a great shot. When it is smaller it looks like something from Stanley Kubrick's 2001 Space Odyssey(spell?). Happy Thanksgiving!!!!
C'mon Rob.... Tell me what "suprise" do you have for me? Did you get someone to ride your bike for you?? ;) Is your "crew chief" giving you advice on how to beat me? Oh!!! Wait!! I got it.... You have come to your senses and bought a Buell!! LOL! ;D
You'll just have to wait and see. ;D
QuoteYou'll just have to wait and see. ;D
Your no fun...! >:( :P