I was reading the rule book an says all bikes must have unaltered vin# ..an well one of my race bikes has a blank frame ..are u not allowed to race a bike that's not registered or do I need to have title / bill of sell papers at each race ? ..if any one can help plz do so asap so I can start planing for the 2014 season
I think alot depends on which region and if tech even checks. Its just a replacement frame isnt it? You do know the VIN though right? Could just have it stamped in the block on the neck if you have it. I've heard drag racing orgs are real anal about it. Dont think anyone ever brings their title to the track or a bill of sale.
I would definately bring a copy of the bill of sale or title (only a copy). If you were to get pulled over and they ran the VIN and saw it was a bike who was last owned by Joe Schmo three states away, you might have some trouble on your hands. So always a good idea to have a copy of those things in the glove box of the truck.
I bought the bike with the blank frame . It was posted as a stunt only bike I bought it an switched it all over for the track ... Think I go ahead an buy a frame ..thanks guys
I remember a situation a few years back in California or Arizona where a local Sherriff's department showed up one race weekend and began running VIN numbers on race bikes. I think they ended up hauling off 15 or 20 bikes that had been reported as stolen. Not the sort of police activity that happens very often, but good idea to have a bill of sale with you. Especially with a frame that doesn't have a VIN.
FYI.... Contingency forms do require that you provide a VIN number. In the case of bikes with no VIN you can write in "Race only".
Well in the lightweight class at Daytona there were several bikes with no VIN that were racing in a class that you need a VIN and they should have been DQ.If I got 2nd place I would have said something.I may be the only one that knows most of the rules.Also bikes were out there that was middleweight converted to lightweght that were racing and were in the wrong classes.There allowed in some but not all the classes.The officials don't even know there own rules.
I didn't protest Mark but the Pierbon is a kit machine yet they allowed it in superbike. Supposedly they presented a letter saying a street version is available. I have yet to see one.
I have one of the air cooled conversions, 848 chassis and 1100 air cooled motor. I only ran in GTL and LWGP where any frame and engine is allowed. I should have run superbike but I didn't want to fight at tech. It seems silly to worry about an air cooled engine in a superbike frame when the Pierbon kit bike is legal. The Bimotas and Pierbons were way ahead at Daytona so it was a moot point.
It's been a sore spot for me with CCS. Several of us got letters from the Director of Competition stating the bike would be legal. But Kevin Elliot overrode that after I spent a big pile building the bike and now about 7 or 8 of us have bikes we can't race. At first they were DQ ing guys right at tech. At Daytona Mr. Melka rode the bike in superbike and didn't have any problems.
I have asked for clarification regarding the letter(s) from CCS stating that the bike would be legal, but got no response. I chose not to fight it because they can make any rule they want, or re-classify any machine they wish, so what's the point? Besides some people were more aggressive than others and I didn't want to be involved in those kind of fights. Racing is my fun time, not time for off- track fighting.
Quote from: apriliaman on November 07, 2013, 12:43:23 PM
Also bikes were out there that was middleweight converted to lightweght that were racing and were in the wrong classes.
Are you talking about that GSXR 565? I looked at the results and he only raced the GP mod classes (Formula 40, GTL, and GP). No rule for those classes saying you can't reduce displacement.
The Pierboron's have no business in Superbike as far as I'm concerned. Even from the manufacturer it is referred to as "kit".
Quote from: trace33chargers on November 07, 2013, 05:00:18 PM
Are you talking about that GSXR 565? I looked at the results and he only raced the GP mod classes (Formula 40, GTL, and GP). No rule for those classes saying you can't reduce displacement.
The Pierboron's have no business in Superbike as far as I'm concerned. Even from the manufacturer it is referred to as "kit".
It's in the general section that machines cannot be reduced in displacement to fit in a lower class.
WERA, CMRA, WSMC, and pretty much every other club allows it, as well as swapping frames and engines. But not CCS.
Correct about the Pierbon, however.
The X60R is a custom motogp style bike with an air cooled ducati engine 295lbs@120 hp.They do not have a street legal version anywhere! in the world.They are built to order.The F042 has a street version and that one would be ok.Stock is 95hp on that one.They have a race version also.Frank has a titanium frame on his bike which is not oem.Wasn't saying anything about the 565 Suzuki.
Gino you rode the correct races.Your bike was fast but not extreme fast like the other ones.
Quote from: Gino230 on November 07, 2013, 05:49:47 PM
It's in the general section that machines cannot be reduced in displacement to fit in a lower class.
WERA, CMRA, WSMC, and pretty much every other club allows it, as well as swapping frames and engines. But not CCS.
Correct about the Pierbon, however.
You're wrong.
Quote from: benprobst on November 08, 2013, 02:54:59 PM
You're wrong., kind sir. :biggrin:
Edited for politeness sake. :boink:
Quote from: Gino230 on November 07, 2013, 05:49:47 PM
It's in the general section that machines cannot be reduced in displacement to fit in a lower class.
WERA, CMRA, WSMC, and pretty much every other club allows it, as well as swapping frames and engines. But not CCS.
Correct about the Pierbon, however.
Ohh, CCS also allows custom frames. I know, becuase I have one of one ever built. :) it's legal in the right classes.
Gino and Apriliaman, respectfully I did not and would not cheat. I only ran the bike in the GP classes and have had several independent confirmations of the bike's legality in those CCS classes.
I did research and consider several of the Ducati air cooled options. I agree several of those options should be GP only. I know some of the bikes which could be considered Superbike legal normally had engine swaps with the Monster 1100 EVO engine for reliability purposes.
Lol I have no clue what yall are talkin about ..I just wanted to know if running a blank frame was ok or not ..
Quote from: benprobst on November 08, 2013, 02:54:59 PM
You're wrong.
6.2 (C) Superbike Rules- "Reducing engine size of machines from stock displacement to meet lower class displacement limits is not allowed"
Same for Thunderbike.
WERA Superbike rules Sec 5 (a) In Superbike the original combination of frame and motor must be maintained except in the case of similar models with directly interchangeable engines.
Quote from: tipsy on November 08, 2013, 07:58:53 PM
Lol I have no clue what yall are talkin about ..I just wanted to know if running a blank frame was ok or not ..
Sorry to hijack your thread. There are plenty of bikes running without VIN numbers. If you get a warranty frame, for example.
I have heard horror stories of police sweeps and such, but I've been doing this 15 years and have never actually seen one here in S. Florida. You never know, however.
Seems like if they went to the dirt bike track they would be much more productive....half of the dirtbikes for sale don't have titles!
Quote from: sdiver68 on November 08, 2013, 05:49:34 PM
Gino and Apriliaman, respectfully I did not and would not cheat. I only ran the bike in the GP classes and have had several independent confirmations of the bike's legality in those CCS classes.
I did research and consider several of the Ducati air cooled options. I agree several of those options should be GP only. I know some of the bikes which could be considered Superbike legal normally had engine swaps with the Monster 1100 EVO engine for reliability purposes.
I'm curious about this project.... I didn't see you at Daytona. I have been wanting to do this to a Ducati 748 for years....the guys at Altanta Triumph Ducati did it years ago to race in WERA. Basically a different Crank and you're done. These bikes can be found cheap nowadays!
It's also been done many times to the SV to get to the 600cc "D" limit. What did you have to do to the bike?
Quote from: Gino230 on November 09, 2013, 11:09:26 AM
6.2 (C) Superbike Rules- "Reducing engine size of machines from stock displacement to meet lower class displacement limits is not allowed"
Same for Thunderbike.
WERA Superbike rules Sec 5 (a) In Superbike the original combination of frame and motor must be maintained except in the case of similar models with directly interchangeable engines.
I know the rules. It appears you are confused.
Quote from: Gino230 on November 09, 2013, 11:26:18 AM
I'm curious about this project.... I didn't see you at Daytona. I have been wanting to do this to a Ducati 748 for years....the guys at Altanta Triumph Ducati did it years ago to race in WERA. Basically a different Crank and you're done. These bikes can be found cheap nowadays!
It's also been done many times to the SV to get to the 600cc "D" limit. What did you have to do to the bike?
He won all of his races with it. Bike ran great and Steve had perfect rides. There are 5 or 6 ways to get the the displacement limit. I think we found the right combination and it's been dreamy since I pressed the starter button.
Quote from: benprobst on November 09, 2013, 04:32:11 PM
I know the rules. It appears you are confused.
Well, I'm quite certain about one thing.....
the x60r has no vin for street use as it is not a production street legal bike. Franks bike has an aftermarket frame. Other bikes like you say no vin # from other problems should be ok as it is an oem frame from a street legal bike.
Quote from: Gino230 on November 10, 2013, 04:12:48 PM
Well, I'm quite certain about one thing.....
What am I missing here. You're telling us we are illegal and that CCS let us in the wrong classes. Yet we broke no rules. We won our races and had no protests. You quote rules that have nothing to do with what you are accusing us of, then don't answer the issue.
We broke no rules with our 565.
Sorry Ben, I think something got misinterpreted here in the posts.
I never accused you of cheating. From Mark's posts it was *implied* that "someone" ran in SuperBike which it would not be legal for. You are talking about GT / GP classes which is 100% legal.
I was in error about the "reducing displacement" rule, that's only for SuperBike, SuperSport, and Thunderbike. I thought it was a blanket statement for all classes but it's not.
Mark, I'm still not sure what bikes you're talking about? The Pierbons? or Frank's TI frame?
I must have mis interpreted too. Thanks.
We built the 565 to compete with the ducatis and Bimotas at 1/3-1/5 the cost. It went better than I could have hoped. Sadly I was unable to get anothe ready for my expert Ray Hofman to ride, but the mph and chassis proved its a force to be reckoned with. And with a complete AMA spec bike and fresh 575 motor coming in under 10k I hope it keeps it's place in the classes it belongs in against the monster ducatis. Displacement isn't the answer. RPM is. :biggrin:
so you are cheating... its a 575. ;)
Quote from: Swiest on November 11, 2013, 01:15:37 PM
so you are cheating... its a 575. ;)
Ha :) Actually it's a 565 in the same way that 599's are marketed as 600's. It is under 565cc.
Quote from: sdiver68 on November 11, 2013, 01:43:07 PM
Ha :) Actually it's a 565 in the same way that 599's are marketed as 600's. It is under 565cc.
I know, I was just banking off ben's mistype.
Would love to see a thread on the build.....without giving away trade secrets, of course... ;)
The 848/1100 swap was pretty straightforward. You have to do a little exhaust work, but it's mostly stock 848. A little machining of the head for clearance of the pipes. Bolts right in though and plugs right in to the stock wiring harness.