i miss not being able to go, how was the turn out?
Not too bad, but this was my first year racing there.
Turn out was better than last year. Good turn out of St. Louis area riders. We had a blast.
I never cease to be amazed by the things that get missed and dismissed when it comes to the officiating of the actual racing. Recently I've witnessed two separate bad calls by officials that resulted in unfair final results. On both occasions the person late for the grid was rewarded while the people that were on time got penalized. Apparently when the officials make a procedural mistake they void out basic starting procedures and are confused on what to do with this person when the arrive late for the show. Although these things are clearly in the rule book. The rulebook is especially clear on the minute board procedures. The timing of third and final call was brutal as well. Way to much time waiting on the 5 board.
All that being said ...Officials travel, work in extreme conditions and put up with racer b.s. So I guess you gotta take it unless you wish to do it yourself.
Saturday and Sunday were dry but windy and cold in the mornings.
Thanks to everyone who worked to make the whole weekend a success :blahblah:.
I wasn't able to go last year, but attendance seemed way down compared to when we went in '08 and '09 (both dates). The event went smoothly, especially on Sunday, when rain was expected but thankfully never materialized. Many thanks are due to all the CCS officials and corner marshals; the wind just never seemed to let up for the most part, and we couldn't do our thing if all these ladies and guys didn't gut out the often miserable conditions to do their thing. Kudos! HPT is an awesome track, and it was great to get back out there.
Quote from: stlrainman on April 25, 2011, 09:39:04 PM
Turn out was better than last year. Good turn out of St. Louis area riders. We had a blast.
I never cease to be amazed by the things that get missed and dismissed when it comes to the officiating of the actual racing. Recently I've witnessed two separate bad calls by officials that resulted in unfair final results. On both occasions the person late for the grid was rewarded while the people that were on time got penalized. Apparently when the officials make a procedural mistake they void out basic starting procedures and are confused on what to do with this person when the arrive late for the show. Although these things are clearly in the rule book. The rulebook is especially clear on the minute board procedures. The timing of third and final call was brutal as well. Way to much time waiting on the 5 board.
All that being said ...Officials travel, work in extreme conditions and put up with racer b.s. So I guess you gotta take it unless you wish to do it yourself.
Saturday and Sunday were dry but windy and cold in the mornings.
Thanks to everyone who worked to make the whole weekend a success :blahblah:.
Attendance wasn't bad on Saturday.... we had several grids that were around 25 bikes. The rest were in the 15-20 range. Some people must have been scared off by the forecast on Sunday as the numbers were down a little.
The weather held off Sunday and it was around 60 with no rain.
Jim,
I was disappointed in several aspects of how things went on Sunday. We had a skeleton crew of people working the races who had experience with motorcycles. The track provided the bulk of the staffing and unfortunately many were adapting to our procedures as they went.
Couple of points........
* The decision to issue a Meatball does not come from the Starter or the Grid Marshalls. If the Grid Marshalls or the Starter see a violation on Start procedures they advise the Referee who makes the determination as to whether or not the penalty will be given.
Verbal abuse of the Grid Marshalls by racers family members does not create any benefit to anyone.
* The procedure we used for the 3rd call was that it went out as soon as we had the Checkered flag on the previous race.
On Saturday I had worked out with Control that we would go with the 5 board when I received word that the last bike on it's cool down lap was at turn #9. That seemed to work out well.
For some reason on Sunday that didn't happen and I wasn't advised that we had a 'Green' track for the next race until the last bike was on Hot Pit. I don't know if Control was told by Track Management to discontinue the procedure from Saturday, or what. That 30-45 second window can make a difference on how long bikes sit waiting for the 5 board.
As the Starter, I can't let bikes onto the track until I'm advised that we have a 'Green' track.
* As you know, because of the weather forecast, we pushed thru the races as quickly as we could - even foregoing a lunch break. The rain didn't materialize and we finished by 3pm.
Were there challenges involved in the first race weekend of the year at a track that hosts 1 race this year? Definitely.
Could things have been better? Most Definitely.
overall it appeared to me that things went very smoothly during my first visit to Heartland Park. Had a good time learning another track and managed to post personal bests in every race! thanks CCS/ASRA and all the workers!
tim
Smoke , this was your first time at HPT?!? Man, you are rocking this year! Ya gotta come to BHF!
I had a great time. It seemed to run smooth from my point of view.
Wish I could have had some dry practice friday to learn the track better but it was still all good.
Rick, you are a good man and your take on the days events is much appreciated and respected. I am still curious why the people that showed up on time got penalized and the racer that showed up late and was still moving on the 2 board was rewarded. Between the owner of CCS, the race director and the referee, there must be a hundred years of experience. The bad call was not do to the inexperience of the grid staff.
I stopped apologizing for my brothers knee jerk reactions a long time ago. :rollseyes:
the event was ran very smoothly and consistently for my races and i couldn't have been happier with the weekend. it was my first time out to topeka and it's definitely not my last!
Quote from: stlrainman on April 26, 2011, 05:06:46 PM
Rick, you are a good man and your take on the days events is much appreciated and respected. I am still curious why the people that showed up on time got penalized and the racer that showed up late and was still moving on the 2 board was rewarded. Between the owner of CCS, the race director and the referee, there must be a hundred years of experience. The bad call was not do to the inexperience of the grid staff.
I stopped apologizing for my brothers knee jerk reactions a long time ago. :rollseyes:
Ben I was watching that race from pit row. The rider came out of the last turn as the 2 board was up. As the green flag was thrown he was just coming through the amateur wave and had a rolling start. I was dumbfounded as I watched the race and no meatball came out. I heard several people complain. Otherwise it seemed to be a decent event with outstanding announcing.
Quote from: steve p on April 27, 2011, 08:11:09 AM
Ben I was watching that race from pit row. The rider came out of the last turn as the 2 board was up. As the green flag was thrown he was just coming through the amateur wave and had a rolling start. I was dumbfounded as I watched the race and no meatball came out. I heard several people complain. Otherwise it seemed to be a decent event with outstanding announcing.
I think stlrainmian is another of the Probst clan, I can't see Ben giving up the smites he worked so hard for-LOL!
So was the rider in question an expert and drove through the stopped novice wave? Was he let out of pit lane after the 5 board, or why was he so slow to come around? Per the rules, what should have happened? Have him start at the back of the novice grid or something?
2 board = no more forward movement. should have stopped behind the novices or been meatballed if the facts are correct.
tim
I was the racer that came out last. The 5 board was up when I entered pit-out and they waved me out. Knowing I was the last bike out I hauled ass to get around to the grid. When I came out of T14 I maintained a quick pace and was focused on the 2nd wave and not the starter because I wanted to get through as quickly as possible without hitting someone. On the brakes hard I cleared the second wave then noticed the green flag was flying and the first wave was racing so I raced; from the back of the pack. A couple laps in I saw the meatball flag out and assumed it was for me. Before I got close enough to start/finish to read the # board they pulled it and the flag back so I kept racing. No doubt discussions were going on with race control regarding appropriate action, but the race continued so I raced. As far as I'm concerned I earned that second place. I started from the back of the pack and worked my way passed slower racers to gain that position. I can only assume the ruling was that even though I was moving during the 2 board the circumstances of my start did not give me a competitive advantage. Another reason I feel I earned that second place is because I gave up a podium to Probst on a technicality after finishing in front of him the last race of the previous day. Let me be very clear on this. I have no grudge against any of my competition and consider you all to be my friends on and off the track. I'm not going to argue the point here as it is non productive and won't change anything. At the end of the weekend I feel I lost a podium and gained a podium due to circumstances beyond my control so its a wash for me.
Quote from: Tornado Bait on April 27, 2011, 04:37:30 PM
I was the racer that came out last. The 5 board was up when I entered pit-out and they waved me out. Knowing I was the last bike out I hauled ass to get around to the grid. When I came out of T14 I maintained a quick pace and was focused on the 2nd wave and not the starter because I wanted to get through as quickly as possible without hitting someone. On the brakes hard I cleared the second wave then noticed the green flag was flying and the first wave was racing so I raced; from the back of the pack. A couple laps in I saw the meatball flag out and assumed it was for me. Before I got close enough to start/finish to read the # board they pulled it and the flag back so I kept racing. No doubt discussions were going on with race control regarding appropriate action, but the race continued so I raced. As far as I'm concerned I earned that second place. I started from the back of the pack and worked my way passed slower racers to gain that position. I can only assume the ruling was that even though I was moving during the 2 board the circumstances of my start did not give me a competitive advantage. Another reason I feel I earned that second place is because I gave up a podium to Probst on a technicality after finishing in front of him the last race of the previous day. Let me be very clear on this. I have no grudge against any of my competition and consider you all to be my friends on and off the track. I'm not going to argue the point here as it is non productive and won't change anything. At the end of the weekend I feel I lost a podium and gained a podium due to circumstances beyond my control so its a wash for me.
It is what it is. I looked back and saw you werent there and knew I had 2nd locked up, so I cruised a bit and you caught and passed me. It wasnt the first time you passed me, but considering the gap I had at the start I think I could have maintained. IN the end its up to race control, I spoke with them and was a bit dis heartened to hear them say yes he (you) broke all of the rules and no we are not going to penalize him. But I hope they at least reviewed the decision. The only difference is I didnt break any rules to gain my podium, I followed them. That being said you rode great and I had fun racing with you, I never got my head right so unless the start of the race went well I was likely easy pickens. Its been a while since I was so dissapointed in my riding, but I look forward to racing with you in the future.
Thanks, Ben. Looking forward to our next race as well.
There you have it folks. Both racers directly involved have spoken.
Quote from: Tornado Bait on April 27, 2011, 05:50:03 PM
Thanks, Ben. Looking forward to our next race as well.
There you have it folks. Both racers directly involved have spoken.
Yup, no righteous indignation or anything! (what a disappointment huh?) You were riding great this weekend, heading to BHF?
Trying to get at least one of the BHF rounds on the schedule, but most of them conflict with race dates in Texas.
something's up with the points. it looks like they're doubled...
Quote from: Greeny on April 28, 2011, 05:33:55 PM
something's up with the points. it looks like they're doubled...
I miss some...