Poll
Question:
what do you think about 900 ducatis in ultralite
Option 1: think it's great
votes: 2
Option 2: pisses me off
votes: 7
Option 3: really pisses me off
votes: 15
Option 4: don't care because i sold my Sv and moved to MW
votes: 3
we raced each other for years and eveyone knows the 900 is a POS so why not give it a class that it can hide from the bimota hoard too.
no....
NO. Changing the rulebook any further and diluting the class any more is just a really bad idea.
Remember when Lightweight was full of FZR400's, Honda Hawk's and EX 500's? Then came the SV650 which displaced those bikes as it was just that much better.
As I recall, the rules always allowed air cooled 2 valve motors to have up to 1200 CCS of displacement in LW - but - to compete against the SV's you really needed to go to the 944 kit put in cams and do some head work to get better breathing in the motor. As a result, while some dedicated Ducati guys would spend the bucks building their 900SS to be competitive the grids were pretty much full of relatively stock SV's that were cheap and required very little maintenance.
Then Buell comes into the mix - Eric put an innovative chassis around the old-school Harley motor and with the contingency it became very popular. Not quite as cheep to buy as an SV and they needed maintenance - but pretty much stone hammer technology and in the hands of a decent rider the contingency could easily pay for the parts and work. From what I saw they actually had good support at the track so it was not hard to get parts when the motor did go BOOM. Again, it was an air-cooled 2 valve engine and was allowed up to 1200 CCs of displacement.
About the same time Ducati released the "evolution" of the 900SS, the 1000SS. Still an air cooled 2 valve motor but with the longer stroke increased displacement to 992 CCs and the dual spark head and stock cams gave this motor the breathing that the 900SS lacked stock. These bikes did well in the class as they were lighter and could out-handle the Buel's while they had more torque and HP than the SS legal SVs. Unfortunately not as good of factory contingency suppport - although the "race only" models in 2004/2005 + an increased focus on contingency brought a number of these bikes to the grid.
All these changes seems to have brought on an arms race in the LW class -SV's went superbike and at 90 BHP the crank (the weak link) started to fail due to flexing. The 1000SS guys started dropping in 1080 kits and loading the bikes up with titanium & carbon fiber - as with all Ducati's the Desmo valves need lots of care and attention (especially with lots of heat which shortened the life especially on the exhaust valve guides). Buells riders built with more compression in the motors and lifespan of the power plant became even shorter, but again with the contingency support it would make sense for a good rider.
Now - given the complaints from the SV crowd Kevin allows the SV's to go to Ultralightweight class. I thought this was a huge mistake. A well prepared SV with a good rider is still more than competitive in LW - its just that I think a lot of the SV guys generally don't want to build the bikes to the extent this would require (cost + maintenance). OK - I see economically that Kevin needs to keep these SV guys from leaving entirely, so maybe (just maybe) from a financial perspective giving them UltraLW to dominate is logical.
Given that I was not a fan of allowing the SV's into UltraLW - my opinion is that further diluting this class by allowing other "big bore" LW bikes into the mix only makes the problem worse. Where does it end? Do we let pre 1992 in-line 4 bikes into the class next year? What about the argument of letting the 748 and 749 into LW - then to you go ahead and allow the 1000SS and Buells into UltraLW too? Rules should not be changed to give outdated machinery a new class to dominate. If you want to run up front and your current bike isn't competitive in the class you either need to buy a bike that is competitive or just learn how to ride better so you can get back up front.
I hear your pain, but, Florida seems to be the only market where the Bimota is an issue. Perhaps Chris Boy has just been too successful finding deep pocketed riders and pushing the brand? I don't know, but rewriting the rulebook to suit your needs is just not a good idea. Buy a 750/800 SS (or an SV) and right Ultra LW. Buy and 1098R and run Unlimited. I don't care what you do - but don't completely upset the rulebook for everyone just to serve your needs is not the right thing to do.
George
Stock SV's in Ultralight was a completely acceptable decision. Ducatis in ULW.....Now thats moronic. Its hard enough to keep up with these "1000 Supersport" Ducatis as it is (even with BUILT SV's) down the straights, why would they try and put it up against stock SV's. It just doesnt make sense. I can count the many times I was walked super hard by those lame ducatis on straightaways and i would say Im a better then average SV rider and the dudes on Ducatis were average. Now put an average rider on a Stock SV and theres no race. Ducati wins by miles even if they arent the better rider. Hows this fair? Its not. DONT CHANGE THE RULES! Lets all just get 600's?
The air cooled 1000/1200 should have never been allowed in ltwss, only in ltwsb and ltwgp with with ss motor mods but slicks allowed. Too late to change that but letting them creep into ulwsb would be bad. I raced with WERA at VIR 2 weeks ago and had a blast in the ltwt classes. All the machines were on an equal playing field and grids were big. They alllow Duc 800s in the ltwt classes and the HP is equal with the SV.
Quote from: MACOP1104 on August 17, 2010, 09:22:24 AM
The air cooled 1000/1200 should have never been allowed in ltwss, only in ltwsb and ltwgp with with ss motor mods but slicks allowed. Too late to change that but letting them creep into ulwsb would be bad. I raced with WERA at VIR 2 weeks ago and had a blast in the ltwt classes. All the machines were on an equal playing field and grids were big. They alllow Duc 800s in the ltwt classes and the HP is equal with the SV.
Love to hear a voice of reason....
Anybody have a rulebook from around 1997 or so? For some reason I'm thinking 1000cc twins weren't allowed in any LW classes back then.
back then it wash Honda Hawks, FZR400s, EX500s in lightweight. Not sure about the Ducati 750 and 900ss bikes
What does a stock SV650 make for HP just over 70HP?
What does a stock Ducati 900 make for HP around 78HP?
I don't see the big deal if these are the right numbers.
But after saying that I do to tend to agree with George. I have seen built SV's making 115HP at the rear wheel. If you have the cubic dollars you can make anything faster. But the way the economy is today I can understand the unwillingness plus like George said; where does it stop. You cant please everybody all the time.
115hp with stock bore and stroke? that's what SVs are limited to in ultralightweight.
I tend to agree with George, I rode a 750SS in LW against Honda Hawks and later, SVs. Now I ride a 1000SS against Buell 1200s and Bimota 1100s. That is just progress, I think, since performance is always going to be improving on these "entry level" bikes that are used for racing in LW. Messing with the rulebook just so the Bimota won't dominate is not the answer.
Supersport SV in ULW I don't think is that bad, there are 800 Ducs and those are pretty competitive with the Honda Hawk, etc. I haven't even seen an EX500 in years so I'm not sure why people keep bringing those up. If I still had my old 750, it would be eligible for vintage!
The bottom line is that this is club racing, there will always be someone with deep pockets who buys / modifies their equipment to the MAX- sometimes those people will be hard to beat.
ULW is full of SV Superbikes, not many of us run Supersport bikes there anymore.
Quote from: SVbadguy on August 17, 2010, 07:07:09 PM
Anybody have a rulebook from around 1997 or so? For some reason I'm thinking 1000cc twins weren't allowed in any LW classes back then.
I can't find any vintage rule books on-line but if you go to the archived results in the CCS/ASRA home page you will see that as far back as 1999 there were 1200 CC Harleys & Buells andeven the odd 992 cc Moto Guzi listed in the LW results. I might be wrong but my distinct recollection was that they were always allowed 1200 CC air cooled twins in the LW class but few people bothered to run this type of motorcycle until after Buell stepped up with contingency sometime around 2003.
Do I have to get on my soap box again?
Lets face it, the same rule structure has been in place in the LW class for many years (at least 11 years if not more) and yet there are still complaints. I read and analyzed the rules and spent the last 5 years developing and building a Ducati 100SS to superbike rules which is quite competitive in the LW Superbike class. With the time and expense I could have easily built just as fast of an SV650 or Buell. With as long as the rules have stayed consistent - I just can't understand the constant whining. 11 years is more than enough time to adapt to the rules and if you want to win you can either develop your bike to be competitive or to buy a bike that is competitive. There would be more damage to the series if the rules materially changed bringing different bikes into or out of the series.
Look - my Ducati took me to several 2nd and 3rd places at Road America in LWSB, GT Lights and Thunderbike. The podium finishers in all the races I entered were made up of a couple of SV650s, a Buell 1200, a Ducati 1000SS and a Ducati 750SS. At the end of the day, I can absolutely say that it was the best rider that won - all the top bikes seemed to be relatively even matched and the biggest difference was rider skill Given that the SV won every race (and even seemed to have an acceleration advantage - at Road America - definitely a HP track) what does this say about the ability of a well built SV Superbike piloted by a capable rider against any other class legal bikes? How is it that people are still crying foul? You all have as much an opportunity to make your bike competitive as the next guy, all it takes is time and money - that you choose not to does not mean that those of us who take the time to build a class legal superbike should suddenly become illegal in the class for which it was built to compete. Fair does not center relative to a specific rider or bike - fair is about consistent application of rules that stay constant from year to year.
George
Quote from: MACOP1104 on August 18, 2010, 06:25:04 AM
115hp with stock bore and stroke? that's what SVs are limited to in ultralightweight.
I race against those stock bore and stroke SV with my Ultralight SB Ducati 800. One of those SVs produces some 80rwhp and the other 84 rwhp at least that is what their riders tell me. Oh yeah the 84hp SV is running in LW SS. They both pull away from me on the straights and they are much quicker in the tight stuff. I do get a quick acceleration right onto the throttle and that does allow me to get into their draft. My 800 produces 87rwhp. I have run my 800 against some 900s just to test the difference and the stock bore 900 pull away. My belief is that the Ducati 800, SV650 and the Ducati 900 are truly lightweight machines.
I built a stock bore/stroke superbike so I could race it in ULWSB. It made 87hp on the KWS dyno. Most say that dyno reads high so knoff off a few hp. Now the motor is getting +2mm hi-comp pistons installed and I'll race my SS bike in ULWSB.
Quote from: CounterSteerer on August 17, 2010, 11:16:59 PM
I have seen built SV's making 115HP at the rear wheel.
LOL! You mean someone told you that's what it made.... 115 at the rear wheel.... ROFL !! You're killing me.
Quote from: George_Linhart on August 18, 2010, 04:47:04 PM
Do I have to get on my soap box again?
Ducati 100SS (1000?)to superbike rules which is quite competitive in the LW Superbike class.
George
I bet it is. Come visit us in the Mid-Atlantic region or roll down to FL. For some reason, Ducati's seem to be a good deal slower in the Mid-West.
finally i got people to start talking a little lol. it's been pretty slow on this site all summer. i don't really see the argument against the 900 i'm not talking about a 944 kit or a 1000 motor and where's the reasoning for allowing the SV in ultra light to began with. for anybody with with a true ultra lite the rules are shot to death. so the most competive light weight bike is allowed to drop down with a rediculous supersport claus but any other bike is told oh well buy a new bike. how about allow turbo's on the ex 500 then. better yet markie ship that thing up to me and we'll build a SS legal standaed bore 800 with abou 95 HP and drop the weight down two about 320
You know Marc, I was thinking that I had spent too much money on this Duc800 after totalling my cost and found it to be $10K. Then I spoke with a couple SV riders and Bill has $7000 in his supersport with a bone stock motor and another expert with some $11K into his bike. I wish someone would tear me down because it could really use a rebuild.
Quote from: Cowboy 6 on August 18, 2010, 05:29:59 PM
LOL! You mean someone told you that's what it made.... 115 at the rear wheel.... ROFL !! You're killing me.
Sorry, You are right that is my mistake. I quoted the Bimota HP for the SV.
Larry Zullo built SV's for Mike Mills that made 101 HP at the rear wheel.
larry larry larry larry larry larry larry larry the lobster markie find us some 800 cases for next year
Quote from: Cowboy 6 on August 18, 2010, 05:29:59 PM
LOL! You mean someone told you that's what it made.... 115 at the rear wheel.... ROFL !! You're killing me.
Ya I was wondering about that one. Still, a 115hp Bimota is unreal! Like I said, let them race LWGP, LWSB, Thunderbike, and GT lights. Keep them out of LWSS
Quote from: MACOP1104 on August 19, 2010, 07:49:23 AM
Ya I was wondering about that one. Still, a 115hp Bimota is unreal! Like I said, let them race LWGP, LWSB, Thunderbike, and GT lights. Keep them out of LWSS
I agree but they need to run SS rules in those classes. As should the 1000DS etc...
The DS1000 is certainly a suitable ride, just not as light as the Bimota.
Still back to topic of Ultralight. It is the only place for me to run my FZR400 and not get totally annihilated. Maybe if I was allowed to run the 560 motor that could give me enough to keep up?
no that would be changing the rules to help one perticular bike making and old bike competive with a new one is not acceptable unless it's a suzuki you got twelve bikes sell half and buy a new one or build it anyway and don't tell anyone like eveyone else does. you going to ride ROC i'm thinking about going for one of those tainted cups on a bike that should be illegal what you think?
I like it. I must ride the ROC especially because it is in the backyard(100 miles). Even if I sold all my bikes I wouldn't be able to afford that Bimota. maybe I can afford your Ducati 748? You gonna let me ride it in October for Moroso and ROC? How much to rent it?
Quote from: majicMARKer on August 19, 2010, 08:31:40 PM
I like it. I must ride the ROC especially because it is in the backyard(100 miles). Even if I sold all my bikes I wouldn't be able to afford that Bimota. maybe I can afford your Ducati 748? You gonna let me ride it in October for Moroso and ROC? How much to rent it?
How about a buy-out clause. Say somewhere in the neighborhood of $12-15g.
Maybe a minimum combined weight at around #550.
Quote from: scubabill on August 19, 2010, 10:05:06 PM
How about a buy-out clause. Say somewhere in the neighborhood of $12-15g.
Maybe a minimum combined weight at around #550.
Claiming Rules!
Now THAT is a good idea. How would you set the max, though? $20K? I spent $14 putting together my SS legal 1000DS....you can't even buy a Bimota for under $35K....
No more superbike in ULWSB for me. My SBK is getting punched out 2mm to a 677 so I'll be on my SS bike for now on.
Quote from: MACOP1104 on August 22, 2010, 11:16:17 PM
No more superbike in ULWSB for me. My SBK is getting punched out 2mm to a 677 so I'll be on my SS bike for now on.
There are a few quite fast SS SV's out there. I know of one claiming 84hp and I believe it. There are others out there I am sure that have more so you won't be terribly way off in performance for Ultralight.
I seem to be the only Ducati 800 rider on the grids in Ultralight. Don't tell me it's cost because the guys that are on the SV that I am racing and competitive with has spent the same amount if not more on their SS legal SV.
The stock Duc 900 from what I can tell on the track is faster than my 800 but not by much.
I guess the decision must be made whether the rules are fixed or if the rules are subject to amendment. We talk about how participation has gone down. If the only way for a rider to be competitive is to buy a new bike every 2 seasons then we will most likely lose even more of the grid. Should the rules be based on the current crop of bikes that are available? Or should concessions be made for older slightly less competitive bikes?
Quote from: majicMARKer on August 23, 2010, 08:10:10 AM
There are a few quite fast SS SV's out there. I know of one claiming 84hp and I believe it. There are others out there I am sure that have more so you won't be terribly way off in performance for Ultralight.
I seem to be the only Ducati 800 rider on the grids in Ultralight. Don't tell me it's cost because the guys that are on the SV that I am racing and competitive with has spent the same amount if not more on their SS legal SV.
The stock Duc 900 from what I can tell on the track is faster than my 800 but not by much.
I guess the decision must be made whether the rules are fixed or if the rules are subject to amendment. We talk about how participation has gone down. If the only way for a rider to be competitive is to buy a new bike every 2 seasons then we will most likely lose even more of the grid. Should the rules be based on the current crop of bikes that are available? Or should concessions be made for older slightly less competitive bikes?
My SS SV has over 1.5 seasons on a stock motor. It's tired right now. it will get fresheed up this winter. 80-82hp is not hard out of a second gen SV SS legal. Leo pipe, mill the head, good valve job, and oxy fuel.
I had a 95 Duc 900SS and it was a beast. Flat slides , hi comp 944 pistons, cams, carillo rods, etc. IMO, too much motor for ULWSB. Your 900SS would have to have limited mods. What do you suggest?
certainly the 900 with a 944 kit is way too much for Ultralight-agreed. I do think that stock 900 maybe with flaslides and stock piston would be a good addition to Ultralight but maybe not.
I can only go by what I have achieved on the Ducati 800. Mine produces 87rwhp on a Superflow dyno. I guess you could say it is a mild build with a stock bottom end and high comp pistons. It seems to me the 1st gen SV with 80hp claimed and the 84hp 2nd gen runs stronger than the Duc 800. I can darft them but once I pull out and get beside them the SV starts to pull.
I wish my 1st gen made 80rwhp....btw last I checked for SS you can't port/mill/work the head, not that anyone could really tell per se but seriously I've got a gen1 sv BMC race filter, yosh race exhaust system propery jetted etc....it's a bit tired but it's maybe making 75 on pump gas...add race fuel maybe 78, tweak a few other things (ignition advance for instance) and I might get to 80
and that's a ss legal sv - shrug
Quote from: twilkinson3 on August 23, 2010, 10:27:43 AM
I wish my 1st gen made 80rwhp....btw last I checked for SS you can't port/mill/work the head, not that anyone could really tell per se but seriously I've got a gen1 sv BMC race filter, yosh race exhaust system propery jetted etc....it's a bit tired but it's maybe making 75 on pump gas...add race fuel maybe 78, tweak a few other things (ignition advance for instance) and I might get to 80
and that's a ss legal sv - shrug
(3.) Original equipment head, valves, and cams must remain as
produced, with the exception of machining the gasket surface of
the cylinder head.
machining of the head gasket surface, aka milling the head.
you can give it a valve job by cutting the valve seats, you just can't touch the head casting.
FYI BMC race filter is not SS legal on a SV, filter replaces part of the airbox and inlet is not same as stock
@Eric -Really? hrm didn't think the inlet was any different size than stock. If I can find the original I'll go peek at the openning with a caliper and check against the BMC unit I have - they didn't look different tho (maybe I have a street BMC then - shrug)
MY 1st gen Sv -650 makes 68 HP to the rear wheel, as Suzuki claims for a stock bike.
(I'll own up to feeling generous...if I'm making 70 hp I'd be suprised)
My stock motor 1st gen made 68.5hp with a pipe and a jet kit on pump gas.
You are all right about the 1st gen and the power it makes. I have seen through friends bikes making 72 breathing through stock carbs and yes the cam swap that is illegal for SS but no-one knows anyway. The 80hp 1st gen I speak of is the Ultralight SB spec with high comp pistons and flatslides. I don't what else is done. I've also seen that said 1st gen SS with ram air ducting and it was deemed legal for SS. I am sure curious if it is. I never complained about it or tore him down although I suspected it may not have been legal. I figured he needed more motor because he was a bigger guy than me and it would even things out.
I also do know that U4(at the time) was good for another 2hp. I am not sure about the U4.2.
In LW if you want the fastest bike that is stock and can win races and is under the 1200cc air cooled rules why dont more people get the BMW R1200S. For 15K you can be very fast.I barely and that is barely! !! got enough money just to make it to the races,if i had some that would be my next bike. In UL the rules are OK.In 600's if you had a 600 from the 1990's like a 1996 zx6r,how could i race that since it would be very slow compare to today's bikes.I guess the older bikes are only good just for fun at a track day,like my 1988 fzr400.
I hate to say this...or bring up the whipping of yet another dead horse, but the ONLY way we will all ever STFU and race is to institute power to weight ratios in the classes.Screwit- you race a liter class bike, and wanna race ULW? Fine, but your ass better weigh 500 pounds.
This post is interesting to me, as I am likely buying an SV for the 2011 season next week.
Just a question, (and sorry for the hijack) but how many people are running SB's in SS in the LW ranks? I hear there's tons of it going on- is this true????
Quote from: skiandclimb on August 24, 2010, 01:16:21 AM
I hate to say this...or bring up the whipping of yet another dead horse, but the ONLY way we will all ever STFU and race is to institute power to weight ratios in the classes.Screwit- you race a liter class bike, and wanna race ULW? Fine, but your ass better weigh 500 pounds.
See, this brings up the class we'd really like to see CCS run, but for some reason Kevin won't take us seriously.
Formula Fatty. Choose a class of bike, probably LW, since you can get an SV fairly cheap, and then require a weight limit of 350lbs... For the rider. :biggrin:
If you cannot weigh in at 350, you are allowed to add another rider. This eliminates Ed Key completely, because unless his co-rider is Bill Casper, there's no way he can find a heavy enough co-rider. I mean Ed weighs like 90 lbs soaking wet. This eliminates any potential fast skinny little brats as well. Level playing field, my friends.
So let's all petition for Formula Fatty in 2011, the ultimate racing series. :thumb:
Quote from: skiandclimb on August 24, 2010, 01:16:21 AM
I hate to say this...or bring up the whipping of yet another dead horse, but the ONLY way we will all ever STFU and race is to institute power to weight ratios in the classes.Screwit- you race a liter class bike, and wanna race ULW? Fine, but your ass better weigh 500 pounds.
This post is interesting to me, as I am likely buying an SV for the 2011 season next week.
Just a question, (and sorry for the hijack) but how many people are running SB's in SS in the LW ranks? I hear there's tons of it going on- is this true????
About 0 %.
Quote from: skiandclimb on August 24, 2010, 01:16:21 AM
Just a question, (and sorry for the hijack) but how many people are running SB's in SS in the LW ranks? I hear there's tons of it going on- is this true????
I sure hope not...
Quote from: skiandclimb on August 24, 2010, 01:16:21 AM
This post is interesting to me, as I am likely buying an SV for the 2011 season next week.
Just a question, (and sorry for the hijack) but how many people are running SB's in SS in the LW ranks? I hear there's tons of it going on- is this true????
Admitting it 0%
Actuality, well........... just watch and you'll see!
Heck, some have even tried to run slicks in SS
What do you consider SB? Airbox removal? Ram air? Flaslides?
Quote from: majicMARKer on August 24, 2010, 09:36:44 AM
What do you consider SB? Airbox removal? Ram air? Flaslides?
Any mods that dq it from SS.
Quote from: spyderchick on August 24, 2010, 07:51:44 AM
See, this brings up the class we'd really like to see CCS run, but for some reason Kevin won't take us seriously.
Formula Fatty. Choose a class of bike, probably LW, since you can get an SV fairly cheap, and then require a weight limit of 350lbs... For the rider. :biggrin:
If you cannot weigh in at 350, you are allowed to add another rider. This eliminates Ed Key completely, because unless his co-rider is Bill Casper, there's no way he can find a heavy enough co-rider. I mean Ed weighs like 90 lbs soaking wet. This eliminates any potential fast skinny little brats as well. Level playing field, my friends.
So let's all petition for Formula Fatty in 2011, the ultimate racing series. :thumb:
!!!
I gotta get X to quit his training for an Ironman nonsense, and start feeding him more cake. We'd totally do 2-up racing, but we're 20 pounds short. :lmao:
Quote from: truckstop on August 24, 2010, 10:43:55 AM
!!!
I gotta get X to quit his training for an Ironman nonsense, and start feeding him more cake. We'd totally do 2-up racing, but we're 20 pounds short. :lmao:
Okay, you can add a pet. :lmao:
We'd have to add all four cats.
Just tell X that his new nightly dinner is Pizza with a side of pasta....wait 4-6 weeks and...hehe
Quote from: skiandclimb on August 24, 2010, 01:16:21 AM
Just a question, (and sorry for the hijack) but how many people are running SB's in SS in the LW ranks? I hear there's tons of it going on- is this true????
There will always be someone who doesn't play by the rules but I don't think it's a big problem in ightweights.
Quote from: funsizeracing on August 24, 2010, 10:26:39 AM
Any mods that dq it from SS.
Well then there are a bunch of them that I know.
Quote from: majicMARKer on August 24, 2010, 02:21:25 PM
Well then there are a bunch of them that I know.
Yes there are. Not worth the hassle of protesting.
Quote from: scubabill on August 24, 2010, 04:04:19 PM
Yes there are. Not worth the hassle of protesting.
Nope, it ain't-agreed
supersport rules you can do alot of things,not that ive done them.If it isnt in the rule book you can do it.If you want to put a carbon fiber fuel tank on you can,it doesnt say in the rules that you cant, as an example.Something like that is not supersport.I can save 9lbs if i did that to my bike.
Quote from: majicMARKer on August 24, 2010, 02:21:25 PM
Well then there are a bunch of them that I know.
The only way to know for sure is to protest, and I have not done that since Daytona 08. The Buell with no airbox and millenium cylinders? I don't think so.
I'm thinking there are at least a few. My bike is bone stock, and I can't pull on anyone. Of course that's not too much of a comparison since the motor is a bit tired.
If it was a tooth an nail race and I lost, I would protest, but I'm not going to protest if I got smacked down by 3 seconds a lap- unless I know it for a fact- then it just pisses me off so I'm going to protest. Like Daytona.
That SV ram air box that Mark is talking about should be illegal. Basically it's a ram air box that encloses the entire airbox, so since the airbox remains intact and stock, it's been deemed legal, at least by CCS Florida tech.
CCS Superstock rules are silly. The bikes are allowed to have too aftermarket stuff on them.
Quote from: Gino230 on August 25, 2010, 11:05:57 AM
That SV ram air box that Mark is talking about should be illegal. Basically it's a ram air box that encloses the entire airbox, so since the airbox remains intact and stock, it's been deemed legal, at least by CCS Florida tech.
So with that thinking in mind those little "vented brake" ducts should also be legal in Supersport but they are not. Makes sense to me.
I would think though if you were to call a class Superstock then class rules should be closer to a stock machine. spersport on the other hand though loosely based on a Stock bike allows more modifications and additions to the machine.
We talk about grids getting smaller and blame it on the economy but grids have been getting smaller for a long time. it would be nice to allow older machines a fighting chance such as this Ultralight class and maybe give my FZR400 a fighting chance. I will put my plan together and submit it for consideration regarding my FZR400.
i just looked at the rulebook and I don't see any reference to liquid cooled 4 cyl machines in ULWSB. Weird! 800cc Honda Hawks are OK, Ducati 800s are OK. I think they should let you in on the FZR400 up to 490cc. Same as WERA D superbike. I also think WERA should boot the Ducati800SS out of D superbike but that's another forum...
Quote from: MACOP1104 on August 26, 2010, 07:54:27 AM800cc Honda Hawks are OK
Except that no one would ever do that. The limit for reliability sake is pretty much 700cc.
Sure, JD Hord has built a 90hp Hawk that weighs nothing, but it's chock full of so much unobtanium, nobody else is nutty enough to spend the money to build something like that.
Quote from: MACOP1104 on August 26, 2010, 07:54:27 AM
i just looked at the rulebook and I don't see any reference to liquid cooled 4 cyl machines in ULWSB. Weird! 800cc Honda Hawks are OK, Ducati 800s are OK. I think they should let you in on the FZR400 up to 490cc. Same as WERA D superbike. I also think WERA should boot the Ducati800SS out of D superbike but that's another forum...
There is a provision for the 4 cylinders liquid cool pre 87 up to 570cc, and the 87-92 up to 500cc. My thought though is that the SV once legal in Lightweight and no lower competed against the FZR400 which was allowed 560cc. Based on the concept of the SV now legal for Ultralight wouldn't it allow for the FZR400 with the same LW limits? That's the pretense I will work from. Yes I know it may be a grenade like the 800cc Hawk but at least it gives that option. I love those little FZR400s.
can a FZR 400 make 70hp with out being a time bomb?
yes.
Quote from: spyderchick on August 26, 2010, 05:09:47 PM
yes.
...and yes. My stock FZR400 with total loss makes almost 60 hp. The other stock version with it's charging system intact is slightly slower out of the corners. With some mild work the FZR400 mill can make 70hp reliably but consider that the weight is the same as the SV. The SV can get out of the corner better than my FZR600 so I am sure it will certainly trump the FZR400 with no matter what motorwork the FZR has.
I know that I am of the minority still running and working on the FZR400. But it is what keeps me racing and not in bankruptcy court as far as my racing is concerned. A major drawback for the FZR racer is the puny 18" wheel on the back. There are no manufacturers building a race tire except for Bridgestone. Yeah sure there is the F2 wheel conversion but that costs money. My last FZR400 I was able to put together for $700 total and a Krylon paint job included.
Mark
$700....Seriously?
I would build one of those just to have a project to work on!
better yet, let's build like 5 and have the FZR 400 cup. We can pick numbers out of a helmet to see which bike we get!
Funny you say that. I just bought another for $1000 that needs to be finished with bodywork. That will be my Vintage racer. That will make a total of three in the family with another two in the making.
Troy has been doing well on his FZR400 in the Premier class of Vintage against a varied group of competition. I am sure that Tash Zarvales will be gunning for him on that big Kawi 1000 at PBIR. The show to watch will be Henry degouw on his TZ750 and maybe John Long on his TZ750.
another one ? if john brought out his TZ 500 would that be light weight?
I am pretty sure John's TZ is "premier class" runing against the likes of a Kawi 1025cc.
I'm going to protest Henry's Coke can catch bottle, it's not vented to the airbox.
That's a $50 fine.
Hahahaha. that you are right, but he will have changed it to an "Ensure" can.
that hurts, you know john won the ahrmadillo race last year at daytona with a geniune GP motored TZ 750 he was leading overall and i think the tire went away. i'd like to see him bring one out for a vintage race but i'm sure his wife would not approve.
There has been talk of that match-up. Henry's TZ will be going to John's shop for the remake. Michael Perry has generously given up his precious 18" Dunlops to mount up.
It will be cool just to see that thing running on the track.