First off, I would like to thank those that stopped by to see how I (and my bike) was after my get off. All in all we both faired rather well.
Me- just some soreness in my back and shoulders (not much more than after a really hard back/shoulder workout). Bike- mostly cosmetic aside from the windscreen. And of course she needs a really good bath to dislodge the mud and grass.
I was running roughly midpack when I went into turn 3 on my usual line. I was carrying a fair amount of cornerspeed when I saw a racer appear taking an inside line. As we exited the turn, we were nearly tire to tire, with him only slightly in front. I feel he misjudged my cornerspeed (or he scrubbed off more than I did with the tighter line), but in either case we exited at pretty much the same speed into the short shoot straight towards T4. Unfortunately for me, I was on the outside and the other rider continued to drift to the outside. I basically ran out of track and had no where to go. So, rather than hit him and bounce off the edge of the track while running parallel to it in an "uncontrolled manner", I opted to attempt a "controlled" off track excursion. I had flash backs of motocross and got out of saddle as the bike made its way through the grass/water/mud. I was running roughly a 45 degree angle to tire wall and had hoped to make slight corrections back towards the track. I basically ran out of room, and the moment before I was going to un-arse the bike the front tire washed out. We both went down and slide into the tire wall. Me, back and shoulder first, and the bike, tail section first. After shaking out the cobwebs and waiting for the race to end, I rode the mud machine back to the pits under its own power.
Although I am not angry at the other racer, and maybe have no place to even think this, I'd like to know who he was. If for no other reason than to tell him what he did wasn't very cool. I am sure he wasn't trying to run me off the track, but he had to have known I was on the outside of him, and he gave me NO room. It was not a clean pass.
I spoke with a buddy who was watching the race from the fenceline, and he even said there was nothing I could have done other to have hit the other rider.
I don't know who the guy was other than he was on a solid black bike and dark colored leathers, and maybe a blue helmet. He would have to have been a white plate. I was on my solid white GSXR wearing red/white/black leathers (kind of mud brown now) and red helmet.
If anyone saw the crash and knows who the other racer was, or if the other racer remembers the pass. I'd like to hear from them. We should all try to learn as much as possible from every crash, and because this guy didn't even come look me up in the pits I have a bit of a soar taste about the whole deal.
If you feel I am not looking at this situation reasonably, and should just chaulk it up to racing, please share that with me as well.
Thanks!
Sorry to hear about your crash, it is not a good feeling to crash trying not to involve another rider, even though it was his fault.
I did not see the crash, nor do I know who the rider was, but I can identify with you about the same turn. Last year I had someone repeatedly going inside in turn 3, end up running out of track and push me to the edge of the track. It is definitely not a good place to pass that way. I didnt really care much because I didn't crash. had I crashed, I probably would have been just as frustrated.
That said, sometimes we don't know how much room we are going to have exiting the turn after an inside pass. I personally wouldn't purposely leave no room for the other rider, but sometimes it just end up that way. I don't like to stuff anyone (ask people in T4, I backed off more than twice every race I was in, because I like to pass people there on the inside), but sometimes I feel like I passed people and push them off their line. I wouldn't think twice if they were ok, but if I made them crash, then I would think twice about that pass.
It seems to be a gray area. Of course we all should take care when we pass, but sometimes things get out of control, lets hope this is one of that instance instead of something deliberate.
Steve, that really sucks. Makes me feel even worse for binning it and wacking you in Savannah. You're a stand-up guy and have had some bad luck that wasn't your fault. I try to have faith that a fellow racer might not have realized what the end result of certain decisions may be. It would be nice to be able to talk to someone afterwards and find out what they were thinking and thought was happening. At any rate, keep the faith, your luck will improve.
Bernie and DaFan,
Thanks for your words of encourage, support and empathy.
I truely believe the guy didn't intentionally run me off the track. But I also put myself in the other racer's shoes and had I been the one to have made that pass on another rider, I'd have made sure to have paused ever so slightly on the throttle as to have left room on the outside. He would have still made the pass stick, while at the same time showing some sportmanship.
IMHO, I think he simply forgot to be a little courteous, and unfortunately a price was paid, albeit minor.
I can only hope that this post somehow reaches the attention of the other rider involved and we have a chance to chat at a future event. Again, there are no hard feelings, but I would like to know what his perception was/is, and have an opportunity to share my thoughts.
Best wishes!
I use my knees in that case, not that it necessarily would have helped you in this instance. Several times I've had a rider I was on the outside of drift me towards the edge of the track. As soon as I realize it's coming, I slap him with my knee. I guess I get this from the dirt track, but at least he'll know you are there and if he crashes from a little knee bangin he shouldn't be racing. IMHO
Sorry to hear about your crash. :(
You should have drilled him! That's what knees and elbows are for! ;D
I must have left before that...i'm sorry to hear about it hope you get to feeling better and if you need anything give me a shout....as for the other ..i agree with the grey area thing...kinda where it seems to fall...
Glad you're okay bro. Sounds like you did the same thing I did in the first race on Saturday. I don't know who the guys on the baby blue GSXRs are but they are in serious need of some skills. I was following another rider around the outside of a huge pack that was far to the inside on T1 when a baby blue rider decided he wanted to follow the same rider I was. Instead of drifting out, he made an abrupt line change of about 4 feet taking him directly into the side of my bike and pushing me off into the dirt at full tilt. Needless to say I went down hard and my shoulder and back are painful reminders right now. I was told the same guy ran another rider off track in the same race. I continued to race on Sunday and saw the same guy take out a rider in T7 who was unfortunately scooped up by the ambulance. I was starting in the second wave for lack of preregistering in each race and each time I came up on him he was taking different lines through the same corner every lap. I was afraid to pass because of his wild riding. I had to pass at the front stretch each time but what a friggin hazard these guys are. Turns out a friend of mine did the Nesba track day at VIR last month and these guys were there as well. He said they were a menace and continually crashed in T3 all day and he will not ride in another trackday if they are present. Wish I had known that prior to Saturday race.
Just a heads up, watch out and stay away form these guys. You'll see what I mean.
So if there are riders like that on the track that continually cause problems, isn't there something the officials can do about it?
Those guys are winning expert and amatuer races. I don't think CCS would ban folks who are winning.
I don't care if they can win a MotoGp race...if they are taking people out, they should be fined/punished/suspended or something. Maybe they are winning because they are knocking the comp down?
QuoteI truely believe the guy didn't intentionally run me off the track. But I also put myself in the other racer's shoes and had I been the one to have made that pass on another rider, I'd have made sure to have paused ever so slightly on the throttle as to have left room on the outside. He would have still made the pass stick, while at the same time showing some sportmanship.
Best wishes!
DANG Steve,
Just caught up on my forum reading. I glad you are OK. I know Ken and I would have been right there with you. Turn 3 is the same area where I got bump off last year in the last race of the season. Lucky was able to borrow some parts.
Again, glad you're OK
The guys I saw on the baby blue GSXRs weren't winning anything. They were starting in the first wave but I passed them in several races starting from the back of the second wave. The ones I'm referring to had only yellow plates and they were riding WAY over their heads. Smooth = fast ... somone needs to tell them that.
QuoteSo if there are riders like that on the track that continually cause problems, isn't there something the officials can do about it?
Talk to the Referee or Race Director, he will talk to the rider.
As far as the first post here, it could be that the guy didn't know you were there. It seems some people know about everything going on around then and others are oblivious to it. I was passing a guy in practice this past Friday and while I was on the outside of him he just slowly drifted towards me and the edge of the track. I leaned in on him and we hit but I got nothing more than a little head shake. He turned his head and as soon as he saw me he changed his line to make room. I'm sure that he didn't know I was next to him just based on his reaction. If you are ever getting close to that situation again, make sure the other rider is aware that you are there...
QuoteAs far as the first post here, it could be that the guy didn't know you were there. It seems some people know about everything going on around then and others are oblivious to it. I was passing a guy in practice this past Friday and while I was on the outside of him he just slowly drifted towards me and the edge of the track. I leaned in on him and we hit but I got nothing more than a little head shake. He turned his head and as soon as he saw me he changed his line to make room. I'm sure that he didn't know I was next to him just based on his reaction. If you are ever getting close to that situation again, make sure the other rider is aware that you are there...
Litespeed,
That is good advice, which I will excercise in the future. Like I said, we should all learn from each of these experiences. The lesson I have learned is to not assume the next guy is going to be a sportsman or as courteous as I would be.
It is a shame that some riders have to have a wake up call by bumping, elbowing, or kneeing them, but I now understand that may be exactly what is called for. If for no other reason than track survival.
just to hijack the thread for a second ;D what would you do, when you are absolutely even with the person you are trying to pass, but you are on the inside, then he makes his turn in, even though you 2 are dead even. I back off regularly, and sometimes I think I should just take teh line, but then he would have to run wide, or even off track. But I have gotten my front wheel sawed off (touched his leg/pipe) quite a few times... I am real late on teh brakes, and that is how I usually past people, by brake into the turn and turn in at the same time, but some turns are just too narrow and have narrow exits. thanks
IMHO...I tend to be very late on the brakes into the slower corners (still working on th fast ones...lol), but as long as I can remember, if you are even and have the inside, it's the other person's job to miss you. I let up once at Homestead and if you read my article in RRW (hint, hint ;)), you know that it might have cost me a win in my first weekend cuz the guy cut my nose off and it costed me too much ground to make back up. Again...just my .02.
I know the principle, but somehow I don't quite trust the other person to miss me. They seem pretty determined to get through the turn without giving in. sometimes I am aggressive and just take it anyway, but many times I back off, and it has costed me better finishes because when I do get around, the leader is long gone. there have been races where I just go for it and take it, and people have almost run off track before, because that usually happens in a rain race where I just go for it :D VIR's turn 4 is the best example, there isn't much room on the outside(you almost run off track when you are on the line), and although I really have the position, I usually back off so no one has to try to avoid crashing.
QuoteVIR's turn 4 is the best example, there isn't much room on the outside(you almost run off track when you are on the line), and although I really have the position, I usually back off so no one has to try to avoid crashing.
I think this is an excellent example of clean racing!! I applaud you ;)
At our level or racing I think it does not hurt to keep things in perspective. I'll be more than happy to buy anyone a 10 dollar plaque in order to receive a little courtesy...if a peice of wood really means that much to somone.
QuoteI think this is an excellent example of clean racing!! I applaud you ;)
At our level or racing I think it does not hurt to keep things in perspective. I'll be more than happy to buy anyone a 10 dollar plaque in order to receive a little courtesy...if a peice of wood really means that much to somone.
Hey don't take the plaque so lightly ... as an amatuer I was fascinated with it for an entire year, and wanted so badly.
I was laughing hard in my helmet during that one race at VIR. I saw there were quite a few people watching the race from on top of the dirt mount, and they saw me back off, almost loose my front wheel, and shaking my head every time I go past there. It was funny, they must be like "that guy just can't pass" :D I enjoyed it though, I actually get a bit of a clear space when I have to back off, and drive hard off the esses and pass them braking for the uphill.
Back to T3, I love going deep and wide on the entrance, late apex and just rail through there. But you need to use all of the track, and come out on the edge. That is the fast way around that turn, but also leaves 20 feet on the inside for someone to try it. They don't quite make it through at speed, and you have nowhere to go. I suppose when you are in traffic, or dicing with anyone, or know someone is close, don't go out as wide, still turn in late, but don't enter from the right, rather from the middle of the track. I know you have to scrub off more speed, but that closes the door. And if someone shoves himself in there, then it is definitely a bad move on his part.
I guess we should all try to use good judgement whenever possible. And I admire you for not wanting to beat him til he can't get up for making you crash. From your reaction, I know you will extend all the courtesy a fellow racer needs. Lets all try to be the same