Race 7 on Sunday 5/2/10, myself and another rider got together unintentionally in the chicane in turn 3. Just wondering if anyone has any pictures. I was on a red/white Ducati 848, number 41 and the other rider was on a GSXR 750, not sure of the number.
if it was on lap 1 i have the end results and fog bank across the track from it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6emfE9ynluw
Yea it was lap 1.
Wow Doug, unfortunately looks like the typical behavior in the am MW-HW classes, LOL. Glad you came out unscathed. Did you see that crash around 4:30 or so coming? You kind of went outside and stayed there while some one blasted that poor dude at the apex.
You alright Pete? Sorry to hear you went down, great weekend for you otherwise!
Quote from: TStinson on May 03, 2010, 04:12:04 PM
Wow Doug, unfortunately looks like the typical behavior in the am MW-HW classes, LOL. Glad you came out unscathed. Did you see that crash around 4:30 or so coming? You kind of went outside and stayed there while some one blasted that poor dude at the apex.
that was a friend on the white bike. soon as he passed it was time to have some fun. i went outside to late apex and try to dive up the inside on the exit. then i saw the blue bike coming in hot and lose the front
Damn that blue bike came out of nowhere. Id be pissed.
oh he was specially when he was talking with the corner worker that said the guy on the blue bike blamed the white bike for the incident.
My wife was in the bleachers by the chicane. She caught the last bit of the incident. I was last with the yellow shirt. Hope my lines were clean enough for you guys. Glad your OK. She said both of you took a break for a while before getting up.
That was a bone head pass by that blue bike.. looks like he lowsided at lean while braking.. hope your friend is ok..
Quote from: DougG60 on May 03, 2010, 03:04:51 PM
if it was on lap 1 i have the end results and fog bank across the track from it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6emfE9ynluw
boy blue bike was on a kamikazi mission
Man that sucks so much...I don't think people (like the guy on the blue bike) know how painful a crash like that can be for the 'victim'.
Repairing the bike, medical expenses, time off work, lingering pain from the injury...it's so frustrating to see how careless people are with others livelihood. Especially if you're a novice...and racing for freakin 20th place.
To the guy on the blue bike, unless you had a mechanical issue...you're a class A douche.
I think in the expert group you get fewer moves like that because of experience and also, at least possibly, because most experts have stuck around the community enough to know that if everyone hates you for being a dick on the track, your weekend will be less enjoyable. Maybe some tough love shown to the AMs that take dangerous uncalculated risks against others will help them and everyone else out.
In my opinion it would be nice if the racing organization (CCS), and community, took a tougher stand against people that are willing to take such risks with others. I can't believe I'm saying it...but I like STT's policy on crashing...you hit someone and end their weekend? You're done as well...no refunds...
In the UNL SS race, I had 1 guy take out another guy going into 1.
Hey, I was on the Blue bike. I apologize to the guy on the white bike. I hope he's all right and there wasn't too much damage. It was a stupid move. I was frustrated and trying to make up as many places as I could after a bad start and getting pushed off track earlier in the race. I usually can hold it in there pretty deep into that corner, just not that deep I guess. The thing with the corner worker was a bit of a miscommunication. I never blamed the incident on the other rider but I wasn't entirely sure what happened at the time. After seeing the video it's clear I just overcooked it and lost the front.
I wanted to apologize afterwards but he was pretty pissed and the safety people wanted to keep us separated. This was my 4th race weekend and I've done 20+ trackdays and my last crash was 2 years ago on my 5th trackday. I like to think that normally I'm a very safe rider but Sunday was an obvious mistake I will do my best never to make again. We're all out there learning everytime we set a wheel on the track. I really can't apologize enough...
Quote from: alexm on May 04, 2010, 12:06:31 PM
Man that sucks so much...I don't think people (like the guy on the blue bike) know how painful a crash like that can be for the 'victim'.
Repairing the bike, medical expenses, time off work, lingering pain from the injury...it's so frustrating to see how careless people are with others livelihood. Especially if you're a novice...and racing for freakin 20th place.
To the guy on the blue bike, unless you had a mechanical issue...you're a class A douche.
Hey, I'm not trying to say I wasn't at fault but in all fairness this is the difference between racing and track days. I would never have even thought about doing that at a track day. I've been hurt bad in a crash before so I never want to see anyone get hurt especially at my fault. And I was running low 1:33's and finished top 5 in both of my Saturday races I was just trying to make it back up front... You're entitled to your opinion however and if you really think I'm still a douche, I'm sorry. All I can say is if we cross paths in the future I'll try to prove you wrong...
Quote from: JCP636 on May 04, 2010, 12:50:56 PM
...in all fairness this is the difference between racing and track days. I would never have even thought about doing that at a track day....
Are you suggesting that your willingness to put someone in a wheel chair for the rest of their life, or possibly end their life, is the difference between track days and racing?
Go ahead, prove me wrong, change everyone's impression of you from 'kamakazi' to 'safest guy on the track, can't wait to race against him next time'.
EDIT: sorry for calling you names...that was rude on my part
I never said or implied I was willing to put someone in a wheelchair. If I didn't think I could hold the line I wouldn't have tried to make the pass.
Good on you for apologizing.
Quote from: JCP636 on May 04, 2010, 12:35:07 PM
I wanted to apologize afterwards but he was pretty pissed and the safety people wanted to keep us separated. This was my 4th race weekend and I've done 20+ trackdays and my last crash was 2 years ago on my 5th trackday. I like to think that normally I'm a very safe rider but Sunday was an obvious mistake I will do my best never to make again. We're all out there learning everytime we set a wheel on the track. I really can't apologize enough...
:thumb:
Quote from: JCP636 on May 04, 2010, 12:50:56 PM
....in all fairness this is the difference between racing and track days. I would never have even thought about doing that at a track day....
Fair enough on your intentions...but what's the 'difference' you are talking about?
Quote from: JCP636 on May 04, 2010, 01:30:25 PM
... If I didn't think I could hold the line I wouldn't have tried to make the pass.
Good on you, glad the guy you took out didn't get seriously hurt, and you only caused monetary damage.
the difference I'm talking about is closer passing. I wouldn't pass somebody that close at the apex at a track day... Close, safe, fun passing and competition is what racing is about to me. Track days are for working on your riding and not about getting in front of the person in front of you. I enjoy doing both...
Quote from: alexm on May 04, 2010, 02:53:30 PM
Fair enough on your intentions...but what's the 'difference' you are talking about?
Good on you, glad the guy you took out didn't get seriously hurt, and you only caused monetary damage.
Quote from: JCP636 on May 04, 2010, 03:19:52 PM
the difference I'm talking about is closer passing. I wouldn't pass somebody that close at the apex at a track day... Close, safe, fun passing and competition is what racing is about to me. Track days are for working on your riding and not about getting in front of the person in front of you. I enjoy doing both...
Dude you have the right priorities right there :cheers: best of luck to you.
I feel impelled to speak up so here goes. This is more about track safety and more importantly it is about rider safety. Locally we have gone through this recently with the end result being mortality. I hope with this discussion that all can learn from it and know that nobody is expempt from the same fate.
A wise person once said, in fact it was Eric Wood during a pre-ride event at a Penguin School, "if a rider crashes and take you out he is really really really really sorry". "Don't expect monetary compensation". You could sue for that but I think the theme behind it is we are all out there and taking a risk. We are not intending to take someone out. We do make poor judgements at times and I must admit I have at one time or another.
JCP- I hope you can understand where you went wrong. I believe it started way back on the starting grid when you had a bad start. That led to another mistake in running over your head and "writing checks) you surely would bounce. I commend you for "manning up" and taking the heat no matter what names people call you.
I also believe that the experts that continue to be here year in and year out are the ones that have learned all the lessons from crashing either their own or by observing another's.
Close passing? I don't unless I know the person and their ability, i've got work on Monday. Safe? That can be very subjective.
Racing versus track days? I believe that track days are more risky due to the fact that you don't always know the other rider's experience. In racing I typically race agasint the same guys when we are all about the same speed. I know which ones to stay away from and the others that I can get into a battle. If I am faster I know I will get by. If the other is faster I will let them go.
Mark
Quote from: skidMARK on May 04, 2010, 04:19:42 PM
Racing versus track days? I believe that track days are more risky due to the fact that you don't always know the other rider's experience. In racing I typically race agasint the same guys when we are all about the same speed. I know which ones to stay away from and the others that I can get into a battle. If I am faster I know I will get by. If the other is faster I will let them go.
Mark
I do a lot of track days, so I know most of the regulars, but just started racing so I get what your saying but it's the opposite for me. Also AM MW classes had 50+ bike grids all weekend so it was pretty packed.
But to your other point, someone told me that the only time a race weekend is bad is when you don't learn anything. And I learned a couple things. I learned that if I'm riding smart I can run up in the front of the amateur pack, and I learned that avoiding mistakes is more important than being outright fast as mistakes can compound themselves very quickly...
thumbs up soldier
I saw 1 guy take another guy out in the UNL SS race, he drafted passed me and tried to hug the inside and took out the guy in front of me out of the race.
If I was to ever take someone out. I would apologize, and offer to help put their bike back together to race ready.
No one wishes to take someone out, it does happen even the pros do.
Quote from: alexm on May 04, 2010, 12:06:31 PM
Man that sucks so much...I don't think people (like the guy on the blue bike) know how painful a crash like that can be for the 'victim'.
Repairing the bike, medical expenses, time off work, lingering pain from the injury...it's so frustrating to see how careless people are with others livelihood. Especially if you're a novice...and racing for freakin 20th place.
To the guy on the blue bike, unless you had a mechanical issue...you're a class A douche.
I think in the expert group you get fewer moves like that because of experience and also, at least possibly, because most experts have stuck around the community enough to know that if everyone hates you for being a dick on the track, your weekend will be less enjoyable. Maybe some tough love shown to the AMs that take dangerous uncalculated risks against others will help them and everyone else out.
In my opinion it would be nice if the racing organization (CCS), and community, took a tougher stand against people that are willing to take such risks with others. I can't believe I'm saying it...but I like STT's policy on crashing...you hit someone and end their weekend? You're done as well...no refunds...
:preachon:
I'm sure someone will smite me for this but this is RACING. It is not trackdays. It is not afternoon tea. There is not going to be any "By all means sir, after you" just because someone shows a wheel. Racing is about who can push the hardest, ride the fastest and make it stick. You will crash in the process. If you aren't willing to accept the fact that you will crash, then you shouldn't be racing.
Racers are all humans, and make mistakes. It happens and it sucks. Call it a racing incident and move on.
It's all about risk acceptance. Racing is dangerous. If you don't accept that risk, don't race.
:cheers:
Nobody wants to crash, but agreed.
lol sick em becka!
Quote from: funsizeracing on May 05, 2010, 02:57:52 PM
:preachon:
Racing is dangerous. If you don't accept that risk, don't race.
Becka- I am watching your smite count, 135 and counting. 1 applaud from me.
Mark
Quote from: JCP636 on May 04, 2010, 05:52:03 PM
But to your other point, someone told me that the only time a race weekend is bad is when you don't learn anything. And I learned a couple things. I learned that if I'm riding smart I can run up in the front of the amateur pack, and I learned that avoiding mistakes is more important than being outright fast as mistakes can compound themselves very quickly...
Did I give you that wise Ancient Chinese Secret?
I agree with Funsize, everyone here has trailed braked past someone on the inside entering a turn (unless you're really slow) and anyone of those passes could have ended in a lowside taking the person out you were passing.
dan ortega lowsided passing brain hall at the apex of 6a at bhf last year, taking him down, so it can even happen to the best experts.
Quote from: funsizeracing on May 05, 2010, 02:57:52 PM
:preachon:
I'm sure someone will smite me for this but this is RACING. It is not trackdays. It is not afternoon tea. There is not going to be any "By all means sir, after you" just because someone shows a wheel. Racing is about who can push the hardest, ride the fastest and make it stick. You will crash in the process. If you aren't willing to accept the fact that you will crash, then you shouldn't be racing.
Racers are all humans, and make mistakes. It happens and it sucks. Call it a racing incident and move on.
It's all about risk acceptance. Racing is dangerous. If you don't accept that risk, don't race.
Becka, funny thing is I agreed with you full ardently before last year...then later changed my tune. Yes, push the boundary, but not while risking someone else's well being. If you ever have the misfortune of being wheeled around in a wheel chair after a crash, you might change your tune too. God forbid.
Quote from: Mike829 on May 05, 2010, 10:21:52 PM
dan ortega lowsided passing brain hall at the apex of 6a at bhf last year, taking him down, so it can even happen to the best experts.
Ohh, yea, I remember watching Dan race for 20th place in Amateur classes against Hall...right...good race...
Maybe my initial post is being miss-understood. What I'm suggesting is the following:
1. Race however the hell you want to race and do whatever the hell you want to do to try and get past the guy/girl in front of you, but understand that your actions can have life changing effects to the other people that are out on the track with you.
2. If you chose to disregard your safety, nobody gives a dam...but if you chose to disregard someone else's safety, then that shouldn't be tolerated.
Quote from: alexm on May 05, 2010, 11:28:36 PM
Maybe my initial post is being miss-understood. What I'm suggesting is the following:
It is/was. I think we are all speaking about the same thing-Safety in a hobby that is inherently risky. Some of us being a little less lucky will crash but sometimes we invlove others. I don't think anyone intentionally goes out there to take someone out but I do hope we all learn to make a more wise decision when racing or track riding.
Good Karma to JCP636. Way to man up.