My buddy and I were talking about the feasibility of a road course being built in our area, and I was looking for some opinions from racers. There is a wealth of land about 20 miles outside of Fort Myers here that I'm sure could be bought inexpensively (relative to this area anyways). We figured a two mile road course, similar to Jennings in size and overall pit area layout, could be built for $200,000-$300,000. Maybe even less. Anybody know how much the actual paving would be? The rest could be done mostly by us and our friends/family (such as small buildings by my brother-in-law, and clearing, etc with rented equipment). It seems like there aren't any good places anywhere near us that have track days, etc. Moroso has about 2 track days per year,and Jennings is 5-1/2 hours away from us and like 6-7 hours from Miami-Ft. Lauderdale. Do you think we would get a good turn-out for track days, and do you think my number guesses are correct? Also, anybody know what kind of dollars we'd need annually for insurance? Fat Bloke? Just curious and been kicking it around for awhile, so I thought I'd ask.
TIA
Sorry, this has been discussed before on many different BBS's. Paving alone will run you $500,000 - $Million even without ambitious plans. That number was supplied by a paving contractor doing the work in the "offseason".....
Add to that all your other expenses (water, electricity, insurance, etc.... ) and you better have at least a few million to invest.
If anyone was really serious about it, we could get an SBA backed loan assuming we have 10-20% worth of investmest cash up front. I think there is a market for tracks but it has to be done right.
That really sounds high on the paving. I'd like to think I could pull some strings and do significantly better than that. As far as the rest goes...I was thinking it would start kind of on a shoestring budget, with the main expense being a good track and surface, and the rest would come as the track and participation grew. There is, however, a lot of money floating around this area, but I have no idea how good of an investment a race track is.
Guestimate on annual insurance? Probably 6 figures a yr.
BUt here a BIGGER problem you'll run into. Getting the land zoned for use as a racetrack. Many neighbors will sue to stop you from building one. Generally these are teh same kind of people who move next to an airport then sue to get them to close it because of the noise. ::)
Ahem. Can you say "EPA"? Your Federal Government will make this difficult, time consuming and far more expensive than it needs to be. :'(
The area I'm talking about is probably 5 miles from the nearest civilization at least. The boonies..
QuoteThe area I'm talking about is probably 5 miles from the nearest civilization at least. The boonies..
5 miles - The boonies....
Whaa Haaa Haaa Haa!
Oops, sorry! I guess I'm not a city girl.
Dawn :)
Not from a city...from people altogether. But remember, Florida's only about 120 miles wide...lol. We are just long. ;D
Bryan:
Since your looking for opinions, here's mine. If it this is a dream for you, research it, look into it, and when it comes to money - expect that it will cost you at least three times more than you expected.
If you do go forward, be sure to have every contract and commitment in writing and very detailed with no gray areas. With a project this big it would be a good idea to have an attorney to handle many of the legalities.
As I told my parents one day, "If I try and fail, and least I will never have to wonder 'what if"
Dawn ;)
We're just gonna look into it as sort of a project when we get some time and draw up a hypothetical business plan. I have another buddy that is a big time investment person, and not only has a load of cash, knows tons of other people with loads of cash too. I have been working him to help me get sponsors for the race team too...lol. We wanted to draw it up and run it by him to see what his opinion is. Probably gonna take us several months to get it all put together....can't hurt...ya never know. ;)
Good Luck!
Dawn :)
Brian.. i have many track days at Jennings and am know personally many of those that own and manage the track. That facility even with no real grandstands or scoring tower as you have see .. is over $2MILLION invested so far. Your estimate on paving is way off. 30' wide or so in many areas, typical paving is over 60$ per linear foot, multiply by 2 miles..Their cost per track day is in the $2,000 per day range with insurance, ambulance, electric, etc. Also, im not sure how much land you think is "alot".. but they have over 300 ACRES up there. Its a pricey proposition but you bet your ARSE id be there with cash in hand to ride it!
"if you build it .. they will come".. ;)
I just wonder how many bodies we could bring in, and how long it would take to regain the investment. I'd probably run the opposite weekends from Jennings to get the maximum number of riders. Insurance is what scares me more than anything.
I would like to follow this thread just to see how much a track would cost. I did a business proposal for a facility in one of my college classes and I just guessed at how much it would cost.
I know the zoning and government obstacles would be the hardest thing to overcome, but it would be nice to have another track (just for motorcycles :) )
So far with the $60/linear foot on a 2-mile track, it would cost $633,000. Then with $2,000 a weekend for ambulance service - you would need to bring in over $12,500 per weekend, for 20 weekends a year, to recover those costs in 3 years. So that is 13 races of 20 entrants at $50 a head - going to the track owners.
This doesn't add in the taxes, electricity, insurance, grounds maintenance, land cost, plumbing, track workers, buildings, security (fencing), club fees, etc.
Plus does the paving costs include the excavating and drainage planning?? And how often do you need to tear up the pavement and repave? If you have no cars, I'm sure the track would last even longer...
Just try to remember that I have to do this in my spare time, and that is a scarce commodity. I will bump the thread when I get some stuff together. Probably be a while.
QuoteI would like to follow this thread just to see how much a track would cost. I did a business proposal for a facility in one of my college classes and I just guessed at how much it would cost.
I know the zoning and government obstacles would be the hardest thing to overcome, but it would be nice to have another track (just for motorcycles :) )
So far with the $60/linear foot on a 2-mile track, it would cost $633,000. Then with $2,000 a weekend for ambulance service - you would need to bring in over $12,500 per weekend, for 20 weekends a year, to recover those costs in 3 years. So that is 13 races of 20 entrants at $50 a head - going to the track owners.
This doesn't add in the taxes, electricity, insurance, grounds maintenance, land cost, plumbing, track workers, buildings, security (fencing), club fees, etc.
Plus does the paving costs include the excavating and drainage planning?? And how often do you need to tear up the pavement and repave? If you have no cars, I'm sure the track would last even longer...
The $2k per day was not just amubulance, thats the cost per day total of fixed costs i have been told are for a typical track day.
They didnt get grass planted in time and there was not enough green stuff to hold dirt in place. THey spent over $10,000 last year replacing eroded dirt so in off road excursions (of which i have had plenty) you wouldnt go down in a big ditch.
Repairs are plentiful too. Even with just bikes, pegs dragging wore large enough holes that needed repairs. Gasoline also weakens the asphalt and sometimes leads to necessary repairs.
I think you might be looking at this the wrong way.
First, it cost Blackhawk Farms about a million to be repaved properly. They didn't use the high zoot polymer asphalt because it turns to cr@p after a period of time. It was less expensive for them to do it that way and it will be more durable. But it was still a good million.
I pay $1850 a day for insurance. You can do it for less buying it in bulk. I think CCE has world wide coverage for their events and it makes it about one third of my cost.
Boonies?
Blackhawk is in the boonies. In fact, it's been there since 1967, but they had to drop about $100k recently in legal work to make sure that they could continue making noise.
But, I believe, the reality of owning a race track is like racing...you had better be in it for the fun of it rather than the "investment" of owning a race track.
Rental...
Road America charges about $13k plus per day for rental. Most are less. Gateway International charges $3750. I think.
Hope that gives you some ideas.
Yes, we are in it for the fun of it. If I could get away with some day having that be my only job, that would be great. However, we are just dreaming of having a nice track a lot closer to us. If Moroso did more than 2 track days per year, maybe it wouldn't be so bad, I guess. I appreciate the info, especially on the insurance. We'll probably get started on this project next month.
Thanks again for all the info!