Motorcycle Racing Forum

Racing Discussion => Rules and Regs => Topic started by: XFACTOR on November 01, 2009, 09:17:38 AM

Title: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: XFACTOR on November 01, 2009, 09:17:38 AM
I turned the big 4 0 at the end of this season, so I can race the F40 now. I've got an R1 and just realized I can't race it in F40.  I see the big Ducks can run the class, why not allow inline 4 liter bikes in Formula 40, if the Ducati 1098 and 1198 are allowed?  The Ducati's got just as much H.P. and more torque. Either that or get rid of the big Ducatis, and I'll start looking for a 750.

anybody else agree, disagree?   
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: sasrocks on November 01, 2009, 10:57:44 AM
agree
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: roadracer162 on November 01, 2009, 11:26:27 AM
Old news. The Ducati is considered HW and the R1 in Unlimited. There have been discussions of making F40 Unlimited. If you want it to happen come up with a credible argument of whay it should and find some supporters to push it through. Then present it to the committee and accept their decision whether it is in favor or not. I still want my 1991 FZR600 in GT lights, but that won't happen. The usual response is buy something that is competitive.

Catch my drift?

Mark
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: XFACTOR on November 01, 2009, 12:14:16 PM
time to adjust the rules........bikes have changed, and advanced... the big V twins are now equal to the liter  I 4's, just look at AMA, WSB, etc.

Commitee,  hello?  are you listening?
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: roadracer162 on November 01, 2009, 01:28:10 PM
The committee doesn't work that way. Some may troll along this forum but you must take the first step. Your argument must be presented before the cut-off date of October 24th for this year to be applied for next year. You should have received in one of the mailers, just can't remember which one.

I agree that bikes do change every year but my FZR is still considered a middleweight bike. At best it can race in LW F40 and Thunderbike and up until two years ago was considered a cheater bike for LW F40. I must tell you the Ducati 748 is much faster than the 1991 FZR600 which was last built in 1998. What year was the last year the Ducati 748 was built. Oh now the 749 is also legal for Thunderbike.

I will still hear that I should go and buy a competitive bike. The 2009 rules still dictate a Ducati 748 pre 1999 is legal in Ultralight. Go figure.

Mark
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: XFACTOR on November 01, 2009, 01:44:47 PM
so basically they not gonna change anything (no matter how unfair) unless enough people show interest in wanting a change.  Wouldn't want anyone to show any initiative in keeping things up to date.....
I guess I'm a week behind in sending in a suggestion to the commitee   :ahhh:
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: Firecat on November 01, 2009, 03:33:14 PM
I would love the F40 class to be unlimited....I have another year to wait before I can enter the class and I'm really not looking forward to buying a F40 legal bike.
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: XFACTOR on November 01, 2009, 11:21:19 PM
I've already started looking for a 750........ ::)
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: redlinepilot on November 02, 2009, 08:15:57 AM
Quote from: XFACTOR on November 01, 2009, 11:21:19 PM
I've already started looking for a 750........ ::)
Sorry to say you only have two choices, both of them are Ducati's. I've been racing a 750 in F40 for 11 years and the 1098's are way superior. In LW F40 the machine there is an aircooled DS1000, Paul Smart or Bimota. When CCS upgraded the F40 category to super bike spec from super sport, that's when it made 750's uncompetitive.
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: DougG60 on November 02, 2009, 10:25:55 AM
im on a ss legal, basically stock 848 so i would rather not see the liter bikes in f40. the 1098's and buells are bad enough. maybe make expert f40 unlimited rules and keep am. heavyweight sbk rules.
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: TStinson on November 02, 2009, 10:35:28 AM
This has been covered before, but an actual 1098 (1099cc) is not the same as a  1098r or 1198 (1199cc) which are not allowed in F40.  The 1098 or 1098s do not have liter bike power, more like 145 at the wheel with an exhaust.  A superbike spec 750, i think the rule is actually 800cc, is competative power wise with the standard 1098 in my experience.
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: XFACTOR on November 02, 2009, 12:32:04 PM
I'm all for a Unlimited F40 class.   I don't want to buy another bike, but it looks like it's too late for this year.
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: sasrocks on November 02, 2009, 02:00:57 PM
screw it, lets just run the 600 and brake later :ahhh:
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: duckracer996 on November 02, 2009, 03:33:33 PM
My 1098 base (same as a 1098S) with just slip-on's and a power comander only makes 135 at the rear wheel. The 1198 and 1098R as stated are the big power ducks.
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: XFACTOR on November 02, 2009, 05:16:54 PM
1098s...1098r   what's the difference? same displacement, right? I'm assuming cams and ECU, but what else?
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: TStinson on November 02, 2009, 05:30:16 PM
Quote from: XFACTOR on November 02, 2009, 05:16:54 PM
1098s...1098r   what's the difference? same displacement, right? I'm assuming cams and ECU, but what else?

the difference is about $20,000

And 100cc more displacement, titanium rods, bigger titanium valves, cams, dual injectors, traction control, higher revs, lighter flywheel, etc. all told at least 20-25 hp more right out of the crate and it weighs less too.
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: XFACTOR on November 02, 2009, 05:44:40 PM
oh......... :err:   yikes!
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: roadracer162 on November 02, 2009, 06:22:25 PM
But I have a question. Are we racing in the different classes based on cost of the bike? I do believe that any 1098 can be made to go pretty fast, maybe not WSB fast but fast by any standards. I thought the same as you have stated regarding the Ducati 748. There is the standard 748, then the 748R and then a 748RS. There are big differences as produced but I have ridden a standard that has been built to what could be considered 748R specs and it does produce 119rwhp. I am sure you could get a 1098 to produce even more power than the standard stock power.

Same argument for the Bimota in the lightweight class or even and NCR.
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: DougG60 on November 02, 2009, 08:45:43 PM
if you want a big twin take a look at the buell 1125cr. now they are shut down can probably get 2 1125's for the price of a used 1098.  the 1098r has a 1198 engine with some trick ti engine parts rated at 180hp
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: Eye-p on November 02, 2009, 10:11:38 PM
Same thread- different year.

I dont personally care how they classify the 1098 anymore. At the club level, it is really rider skill more than anything that makes the difference.

That said, the 1098 makes about 20-25 less hp than a 1098R/1198. The R and 1198 is really comparable to a liter bike- R1, GSXR, etc...while the 1098 cant hold a candle to the big bikes in outright speed.
Getting a 1098 to make comparable levels of power would be very very expensive. Certainly doable, but it will cost well over $10k in parts and time to accomplish. How many people are actually going to go that route?

I would suggest getting a 600 for F40 rather than the 750, as that is really the only class where the 750 makes sense at all. Seems like a waste to spend money on a bike that is competitive for 7 laps an event...
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: roadracer162 on November 02, 2009, 10:52:38 PM
Unless you put the $10K into the 750.

How many people would put the money in? I am not sure, but what I do know is there a Bimota running around with $60K into it. $10K on a 1098 would be not much at all.
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: Eye-p on November 02, 2009, 11:00:11 PM
There will always be one or two clowns with more dollars than sense. If you put $60k into a Bimota to beat up on SV650's, you clearly do not understand racing.

At the same time, putting $10k into a 1098 engine might not be much, but then who is actually racing these overbuilt things? (FWIW, I just looked at what it would actually cost to make a 1098 put out 175hp and $10k isnt going to do it.)
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: ahastings on November 02, 2009, 11:23:41 PM
a good 600 or 750 is plenty competetive in f40 with a good rider on it.
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: Woofentino Pugrossi on November 03, 2009, 02:28:34 AM
I want to use a 400hp turbocharged hayabusa for F40.:biggrin:
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: F2RGK on November 04, 2009, 08:56:42 PM
Quote from: XFACTOR on November 02, 2009, 05:16:54 PM
1098s...1098r   what's the difference? same displacement, right? I'm assuming cams and ECU, but what else?

Lottsa Money!  And you have to be Cuban to Run a Duck.  They think they're Ferari's.  LOL....last time I checked the Midwest Region runs Formula 40 because they run what they brung and they're 40!!  In Wisconsin, be careful, they like to shoot Ducks. 
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: XFACTOR on November 04, 2009, 10:06:03 PM
LOL
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: duckracer996 on November 09, 2009, 01:28:45 PM
Hey I'm not Cuban!!!!!!...I'm German!!!....And I figured since my 1098 is painted the same red as a Ferari that it was a Ferari!!!!!
Title: Re: F40 eligable bikes.......
Post by: SnacktimeKC on November 11, 2009, 04:06:44 PM
I think 750's swept the podium at the ROC, and if there's a horsepower track it's Daytona. -Snack