Not naming names, but I have noticed that some amateur riders that were on the bump up list to go "EXPERT" FOR THE SECOND TIME, are still running in the Amateur class. I thought it was a one time petition deal? Seems strange you can win a Class Championship. A number of them, for that matter, and still remain in the amateur rankings. Sorry, but I call bullshit on this. :jerkoff:
:pop:
Yes I know of one racer who won at least one championship last year and is still an AM. A relatively slow AM but an AM nonetheless. I never even considered staying down - 707 pts but no championship - I thought they'd (CCS) laugh at the letter. The reality is that I was finishing well into the expert that year - the following year 1 as an expert was disastrous.
If CCS won't do it's job then peer pressure (being ostracized and ridiculed) may work. If you've won an AM championship, then move on and let the real newbies have a chance.
5 regional championships and over 1000 point and still amateur? If that's not bullshit, I don't know what else to call it.
I'm just glad that I'm no longer an AM. Too many sandbaggers in that group now. As long as they pass the slower amateurs cleanly that's fine - we really don't want a repeat of the Marshall/Kurt show a couple of years ago. I've got no interest in racing them - we're different classes.
I guess the main problem I see is that a new or developping AM rider won't see much hope of ever winning. The fact that I won a couple of races and podiumed a bunch of times encouraged me to keep going and not fight the move to Exp.
Might mean you're getting faster, might mean there's some slow experts. Might be a bit of both!
These days, a lot of people do do quite a few track days before they start. Why wouldn't you? There's a lot to learn about racing, why not take the opportunity to learn to ride fast first (for some value of fast), then learn to race? Some people get fast with a little seat time, some of us take freaking years to cut the anchor away. Some of us never thought we'd want to race, then we try it.
As far as champions coming back for more yellow-plate action, doesn't it depend on champion of what? There are classes out there with only 1 or 2 yellow-plate entries - you could be a regional champion without ever actually beating anybody. I wouldn't hold a grudge if they came back yellow, but I think it'd also do them good to move to a more competitive class.
Rick...can I get some of that corn? ::)
I got some corn for ya....
Damn sandbagging trackday whores..... may they all go to hell.... :)
Quote from: red900 on April 28, 2009, 12:54:21 PM
I got some corn for ya....
Damn sandbagging trackday whores..... may they all go to hell.... :)
Guess we know where you're going! :biggrin:
XB12Racer.... if you want to send me a PM with details I'll check into it with the CCS people who would know at Road America this weekend and get back to you.
Quote from: red900 on April 28, 2009, 12:54:21 PM
I got some corn for ya....
Damn sandbagging trackday whores..... may they all go to hell.... :)
Timmay? :biggrin:
Don't let him fool you! He's a professional shit disturber!
Now then, about those names :biggrin:
Quote from: danch on April 28, 2009, 12:18:05 PM
As far as champions coming back for more yellow-plate action, doesn't it depend on champion of what? There are classes out there with only 1 or 2 yellow-plate entries - you could be a regional champion without ever actually beating anybody. I wouldn't hold a grudge if they came back yellow, but I think it'd also do them good to move to a more competitive class.
I know this isn't about me, but I resemble this remark. I like my little turd bike. I can't help it that there aren't any other girls wanting to enter the class. My totally opportunistic AM ULWSB trophy is lonely. By the way, yeah - I didn't even have to petition to stay AM that year, they didn't bother putting me on the list. I think I had 120 points and never finished better than fourth. I'm in the classes because it's cheap and I love that dumb bike. (It would not have mattered if I entered FMLW or ULWSB this weekend, neither one had more than one or two entries.) Heck, give me an EX plate, I don't care, it wouldn't matter in the classes I'm running now anyway, and white looks better with our team colors :D
Yeah, you might learn more about riding and racing in a more competitive class, but if you're having fun where you are, isn't that what club racing is about? Sorry if my original statement came across differently than that.
Larry Denning and I were talking at HPT about him coming back as an amateur next year. :biggrin:
Quote from: danch on April 28, 2009, 02:11:54 PM
Yeah, you might learn more about riding and racing in a more competitive class, but if you're having fun where you are, isn't that what club racing is about? Sorry if my original statement came across differently than that.
No worries - I didn't take it that way and this topic is about other offenders. Would I go a little faster in a class with other people my pace? Yes, but I'll be by myself in the back no matter what class I'm in and with no carrot or anyone behind me pushing I'm not going to go any faster. My brain only has one speed. I'm looking forward to Tea getting better and back to riding as we are a similar pace and can push each other, but as with what happened with Tim Haley, I fully expect her to get faster than me and I'm totally ok with that. I'm not racing out of a competitive need for it, I'm doing it because it's fun. :D
Quote from: truckstop on April 28, 2009, 03:21:52 PM
but as with what happened with Tim Haley
whatchu talkin' bout :biggrin:
No Jen. I'm not bagging on you. Guess you can't be too upset with the people staying AM. I guess the issue is with the CCS office that allows this to happen year after year. 5 regional Championships and more than enough points and still an AM. I believe it 's the 3rd year as an AM as well. Guess I shouldn't care. I'm running a very limited schedule this year, so it probably won't affect me one way or the other.
This thread would be way more interesting if their names were mentioned, if you really feel that strongly you might as well be up front about it.
there's no real value in calling them out. They know who they are. We will humiliate the hell out of them anyway. I'm kicking myself for not having written the letter particularly after my dismal first season as expert.
Quote from: backMARKr on April 28, 2009, 01:30:38 PM
Timmay? :biggrin:
oh sure drag me into this... :banghead:
:biggrin:
someone get some white duct tape.
it's like a horses head in their bed, only everyone gets to see.
I love the start of the racing season!
Quote from: Super Dave on April 28, 2009, 02:28:25 PM
Larry Denning and I were talking at HPT about him coming back as an amateur next year. :biggrin:
Does that mean he's doing a ton of trackdays with NESBA this year?
Quote from: Super Dave on April 28, 2009, 02:28:25 PM
Larry Denning and I were talking at HPT about him coming back as an amateur next year. :biggrin:
Well, he's probably a bit rusty. :biggrin:
What is it, like 2 1/2 years since he quit?
Quote from: r1owner on April 29, 2009, 01:28:46 PM
Does that mean he's doing a ton of trackdays with NESBA this year?
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Great you had to go and start that again!
Quote from: SV88 on April 28, 2009, 08:33:52 AM
we really don't want a repeat of the Marshall/Kurt show a couple of years ago. I've got no interest in racing them - we're different classes.
It's funny that people are still bitter about this. Kurt and Marshall were both in their first season, therefore amateurs.
This is a topic that always leaves me on the fence. You could have a person that has done plenty of trackdays and has a good pace. They however may not have a clue about racecraft, tactics or defensive lines etc. The art of racing we'll say. Should they be amateurs because they don't have a race season of experience on their resume. I personally think it's better to get some track time doing track days before racing. You see how passes are made. You develop experience in gauging closing speeds and learn the abilities of yourself and your machine. You learn how this new world of track riding works. I personally think it's not the best idea to have people that got their motorcycle street license six months ago, come out and get a race license to race the next weekend. Without having more then and hour of track time. I know that was how it was done back in the day. But times have changed. It's such a tough thing to deal with and will always be a point of controversy. In a perfect world we could have a true novice class for people with little or no track experience. Then have a class of experienced riders that are in between. Last you'd have experts. Seasoned veterans who are battling with all their talent and experience. Obviously with the size of club racing and the trouble getting the current races all completed on time, this is an unrealistic option.
I don't know what the answer is. But I do feel conficted about the current system. As to the original point that started this thread, I guess we really need to hear from a decision maker at CCS as to why an individual did or did not get moved to expert.
Quote from: JBraun on April 30, 2009, 12:30:28 PM
It's funny that people are still bitter about this. Kurt and Marshall were both in their first season, therefore amateurs.
So was Ron Hix...
Quote from: r1owner on May 01, 2009, 12:41:28 PM
So was Ron Hix...
so was scott myers... oh wait... that was your first 5 years... :ass:
:biggrin:
It's funny that people are still bitter about this. Kurt and Marshall were both in their first season, therefore amateurs.
[/quote]
No no, I don't care about the track day experts. However some of them (like Ron Hix) do the right thing. Others want to win a championship @ all cost even if they don't have real competition. For most of us (who will rarely see podium @ Exp level) the fun is in dicing with someone else. It's probably more fun to go back and forth than leading a race from start to finish. Don't get me wrong - I do like to win and have done so.
The Marshall/Kurt thing was more the extreme agressiveness to the point where seasoned experts were complaining. I had a bit of that yesterday during the GTU race last lap. Had a couple of AM almost T-bone @ Canada corner, one went off the track but kept it up and did the same thing on T14 - total morons - that's why I stayed away from MW/C class AM. Yesterday CCS combined races and I almost got taken out by these jerks; guess I need to get faster so that I don't even have to deal with them.
Quote from: tstruyk on May 02, 2009, 01:25:20 AM
so was scott myers... oh wait... that was your first 5 years... :ass:
:biggrin:
Hehe... yeah, well when you only run 3 weekends a year and place mid pack, it takes a while to accumulate enough points to go expert. Plus in my defense I had a little problem called Cancer thrown in for good measure. Oh yeah, that's right, I pulled the cancer card... :)
As soon as I made the bump list I took it without petition.
BASTARD! :)
blah blah blah cancer blah blah blah... :biggrin:
you could have included that in your petition... :spank:
you should have stayed AM... you raced like one expert year and "retired"...
btw how is the cancer thing?
6 years the past March.... Getting a CT scan this week.
Quote from: tstruyk on May 03, 2009, 05:24:06 PM
blah blah blah cancer blah blah blah... :biggrin:
Mr. Struyk is no longer associated with the Road Race Prep.com race program.
Quote from: r1owner on May 03, 2009, 06:01:40 PM
6 years the past March.... Getting a CT scan this week.
right on man, lemme know how it comes out!
Quote from: backMARKr on May 03, 2009, 08:22:20 PM
Mr. Struyk is no longer associated with the Road Race Prep.com race program.
when was my Dad involved in the race program? you would think he would have told me... :biggrin:
Yeah, I heard your Dad was a super fast cherry pickin AM... isn't he used to going like 600MPH....
he's more of a "coast to coast" racer... corporate sponsors etc... 8)
cant nobody hang with my dad's stuff.
Yeah, but he's nothing compared to this dude...
http://www.fromtheinside.us/thinking/Groundspeed_Check.htm
love that story!!
Quote from: backMARKr on May 03, 2009, 08:22:20 PM
Mr. Struyk is no longer associated with the Road Race Prep.com race program.
correction: the YOUNGER MORE IMMATURE Mr. Struyk is now reassigned to a '94 125 2 stroke that we aren't even sure will start.....
and we don't mean your brother Tim....
will a 125 even move with my big ass on it? :wtf:
:ahhh:
Hey Jim, was a pleasure meeting you this weekend and turning some laps with you. A big thanks again for hooking me up with that linkage piece- you saved my ass, brother. BTW- w/o naming names, I think I am in the "know" about this subject now. But after race #2, I 'm not worried about it!!!!!
See you at HPT and GIR.
Cheers,
Chris
Quote from: tstruyk on May 04, 2009, 11:57:09 AM
will a 125 even move with my big ass on it? :wtf:
:ahhh:
:lmao:
Hmmm, these are some great ideas! Thanks!! :thumb:
It's easy you just get 399 points then call it a season. no need to petition then ;)
So what do we base a true amateur on? Lap times, # of seasons, Level of competiton? From what I saw this weekend, there were only three guys gridded in some amateur classes, and one was always faster than the others. Maybe everytime an amateur wins a race that person should them be bumped to expert, because now they have proven they can beat their competition. OR maybe once an amateur passes an expert in a sprint race that person should be bumped up? How about if an amateur wins a race overall form the second wave they win the regional championship instantly?
I really think many of you are not considering how hard it is to contend an entire season. Rain, Hail, Crashes, Tires, Roadtrips, Prep, job, etc.....
A championship, no matter at what level is a big commitment and hard work...
exactly. and when you win 5, you should be bumped up.
It would be more interesting if the slow experts were held back and the fast amateurs were bumped up. I'm glad this is not the case because I want to run an entire amateur season and passing experts from the first wave isn't very hard, but from a competitive standpoint it sure would help.
Quote from: R1Racer99 on May 04, 2009, 09:49:30 PM
It would be more interesting if the slow experts were held back and the fast amateurs were bumped up. I'm glad this is not the case because I want to run an entire amateur season and passing experts from the first wave isn't very hard, but from a competitive standpoint it sure would help.
there's a concept. It'd save on the interactions between the fast amatuers and the slow experts and make both classes competitive, but the criteria is very subjective.
That's true. There's no good answer, someone will always be unhappy. I just don't worry about it and if I lose to someone, it's my fault, not the system.
You almost need three classes like td's. Novice, little or no contingency, sandbaggers, some experienced amatuers and CR's that don't make the jump with current contengency and experts. But unfortunately there isn't currently the grids to support such a setup.
Someone always has to win.
Why do people have to start hating those people when they are consistent winners. At the amateur level the excuse is always that the person has too much experience, at the expert level it is always some rumor of cheating.....
I never said I hated anyone. I do, however think it's absolute bullshit that you can be on the bump up list TWICE, and stay an amateur. I also think it's bullshit you can win 5 regional championships, and the following year, stay amateur.
That is where the CCS office, in MY opinion, screwed up. But, hey, guess I shouldn't care. Apparently the powers that be don't.
I like pie.
Nothing else useful to add here.
George
Quote from: xb12racer on May 05, 2009, 04:50:18 PM
I never said I hated anyone. I do, however think it's absolute bullshit that you can be on the bump up list TWICE, and stay an amateur. I also think it's bullshit you can win 5 regional championships, and the following year, stay amateur.
That is where the CCS office, in MY opinion, screwed up. But, hey, guess I shouldn't care. Apparently the powers that be don't.
If all that is factual, I agree with you.....
Quote from: George_Linhart on May 05, 2009, 05:56:57 PM
I like pie.
Nothing else useful to add here.
George
Hey, George! I enjoy a good piece of pie myself, although I'm really more of a cake man.
Missed you at HPT and RA this year. What are your racing plans this year? You did some endurance stuff with Steve, yes?
Here's what I was just told last night by an expert racer that I respect a bunch when I broached this subject, after reviewing the Mid Atlantic Amateur results from both CCS and WERA this year:
"Go beat him. If you can't, then learn from him."
Quote from: George_Linhart on May 05, 2009, 05:56:57 PM
I like pie.
Nothing else useful to add here.
George
Coconut cream is a personal favorite.
What about cobbler?
Quote from: RoyHefner on May 05, 2009, 10:25:57 PM
Hey, George! I enjoy a good piece of pie myself, although I'm really more of a cake man.
Missed you at HPT and RA this year. What are your racing plans this year? You did some endurance stuff with Steve, yes?
Hey Roy - I certainly missed being there!
I will be racing this year. Work is keeping me quite busy but I expect things to smooth out sometime in June (I hope). I am going to try and make at least one day of the BHF round at the end of May (I'll give the track one more try before I swear it off) and definitely plan on the Topeka round in July. It also is a little tougher from a logistics issue now that we have a new baby in the house. It just got to the point that Sam (at 4 years old) was pretty easy for Heidi to manage at the track without help. Taking care of Sam and Anderw may be a bit stressful for Heidi.
We made some more enhancements to the Duc over the winter, added somewhere between 7-12 bhp and skimmed off a few lbs. We also looked carefully to try and work to ensure a bit more reliability by re-working the wire harness and replacing the slipper clutch. I am really looking forward to getting it out on the tranck to see what I can do with it this year.
I really enjoyed the 6 hour endurance races earlier this year down in Texas. It may make the sprints seem a bit boring in comparison. I'd love to do more of it, but, the level of complexity, need to take additoinal time off and aggregate costs including the travel make it difficult. I'm mulling over doing the additoinal round with Steve - I think a lot of it is going to come down to just how crazy things get at work.
I may run the Solo Challenge at BHF for the added track time. I don't want to beat up the Duc too much, but, I've got such little time on it that I really don't think it would be an issue. If I do, I may need a hand in pits from either you guys or Steve...
George
Quote from: funsizeracing on May 06, 2009, 10:04:54 AM
Coconut cream is a personal favorite.
What about cobbler?
No cream pies for me. and no cobbler. Cherry pie please.