Received this from a friend and just couldn't resist sharing it. :D
With all of this talk of war, many of us will encounter "Peace
Activists" who will try and convince us that we must refrain from
retaliating against the ones who terrorized us all on September 11, 2001,
and those who support terror. These activists may be alone or in a
gathering.....most of us don't know how to react to them. When you come
upon one of these people, or one of their rallies, here are the proper
rules of etiquette:
1. Listen politely while this person explains their views. Strike up a
conversation if necessary and look very interested in their ideas. They
will tell you how revenge is immoral, and that by attacking the people who
did this to us, we will only bring on more violence. They will probably use
many arguments, ranging from political to religious to humanitarian.
2. In the middle of their remarks, without any warning, punch them in
the nose.
3. When the person gets up off of the ground, they will be very angry
and they may try to hit you, so be careful.
4. Very quickly and calmly remind the person that violence only brings
about more violence and remind them of their stand on this matter. Tell
them if they are really committed to a nonviolent approach to undeserved
attacks, they will turn the other cheek and negotiate a solution. Tell
them they must lead by example if they really believe what they are
saying.
5. Most of them will think for a moment and then agree that you are
correct.
6. As soon as they do that, hit them again. Only this time hit them much
harder. Square in the nose.
7. Repeat steps 2-5 until the desired results are obtained and the idiot
realizes how stupid of an argument he/she is making.
8. There is no difference in an individual attacking an unsuspecting
victim or a group of terrorists attacking a nation of people. It is
unacceptable and must be dealt with. Perhaps at a high cost.
We owe our military a huge debt for what they are about to do for us and
our children. We must support them and our leaders at times like these. We
have no choice. We either strike back, VERY HARD, or we will keep getting
hit in the nose.
Lesson over, class dismissed.
:D :D :D I likes!
Oh my gosh! That was too funny and so true!
Dawn :)
So instead, try this one on for size...
When the peace-nik is talking to you, wait until a passerby that you don't like the looks of comes by and punch HIM/HER in the nose...
hmmmm... well, since I can't nail the guy who killed the ~3500 innocents, let's divert the attention to someone else...
The correlation of 9/11 and sadam hussein (sp?) is almost comical. People are on this revenge kick after the wrong person simply because the right one couldn't be caught.
Whatever...
Feel free to comment/argue/flame my statements, but I won't comment further...
In closing, I will absolutely say that I support our TROOPS, and hope to a swift resolution to this event...
I say we just kick the enemy's asses and quite arguing amongst ourselves. These protesters should support their country or go live somewhere else. I'm sure there's plenty of available real estate in Iraq by now. ::)
Quotehmmmm... well, since I can't nail the guy who killed the ~3500 innocents, let's divert the attention to someone else...
The correlation of 9/11 and sadam hussein (sp?) is almost comical. People are on this revenge kick after the wrong person simply because the right one couldn't be caught.
Keep that head in the sand. [Arabic voice] no weapons of mass destructions here [/Arabic voice] Let me draw you a Crayola picture. Saddam has offered to pay the families of suicide bombers. And has terrorist camps in his country.
not
Didn't we have this discussion before?
Yep - war sucks. Everyone agrees on that.
Saddam sucks. Everyone agrees.
Osama Ben Laudin sucks. Everyone agrees.
9-11 - USS Cole - US Embassy - all bombed - all sucked.
How we should proceed? Not everyone agrees.
Let's support our troops and pray for a quick end to this.
Dawn
Quoteharb 990...
what makes you think that just because someone is against this war they can't or won't kick your a.s
some people who oppose this war might be willing to blow your freeking brains out (although from your post it doesn't seem that you are using them anyway )
MJ
first - I did not write what I posted - simply posted what I got from a friend and if you look at the title of the post I figured it would tick some people off and I apologized a head of time.
second - if someone feels the need to "kick my a$$" for what I posted, bring it on - they have issues.
third - this post was not about the war and whether you agree or disagree with it - it was simply about sharing something I found funny with other people (as I've stated in #1)
fourth - I think it is fine to disagree with the war, but everyone that is protesting is showing disrespect for the troops that are over there fighting for something that was deemed important and a threat to the freedoms our country offers.
If you feel the need to respond, please do, but I will not probably look at this post again as it has changed into a conversation I wish to carry on no more.
Quotebut everyone that is protesting is showing disrespect for the troops that are over there fighting for something that was deemed important and a threat to the freedoms our country offers.
I STRONGLY disagree with that statement. You can be against the war, but have support for the TROOPS, I think.
But, believe what you will. That's all I'll say about that.
On the other hand: (My brother is in the Mid-East right now, and has been since January. He was supposed to come back in March, but we'll be lucky if he's back in June.) I recieved word from my brother's Madison base that the families of those in the Mid East from his division were supposed to have a get together this weekend. But, because of protesting in front of the AFB, these familes will NOT be able to enter the base, and thus they are left without support from eachother for longer. Some of those familes REALLY need this support from other familes with troops overseas.
I think that protesting in front of an Air Force base isn't a good place. It's not going to get a whole lot of attention from the public around there, and just cause problems at the base.
Point being: I think the protesting is OK, and you can support TROOPS but not the war, but there are Inappropriate times and places for such protests.
Either way, I think I'm against this war, but I still found humor in the post. I liked it.
QuoteI STRONGLY disagree with that statement. You can be against the war, but have support for the TROOPS, I think.
Point being: I think the protesting is OK, and you can support TROOPS but not the war, but there are Inappropriate times and places for such protests.
Either way, I think I'm against this war, but I still found humor in the post. I liked it.
Can you support the troops and not support the war?
I have not felt completely comfortable with that statement, and I friend and I were talking. He felt that you cannot support the troops and disagree with the war.
I will do a poor job of paraphrasing it, but I'll try.
But I guess maybe if you "support the troops", what does that mean? Does it mean that you feel no obligation to legitimize the work they are doing, the risks they are taking to help another people and our own people in addition to people world wide?
Does "supporting the troops" mean that you feel that they are free to make their decisions, and you support that they may do as they wish?
Soldiers have a purpose. They are there for a job. Not supporting the actions of our troops, the action in Iraq, is no support for our troops...our children, fathers, mothers...friends, family...that put their lives on the line to protect us.
Let there be no doubt in your minds as you embark on this mission that you carry the hopes, the prayers, and the gratitude of your country with you.
Every generation learns anew that freedom carries a steep price. You are paying that price with your courage and your commitment, no less than those who fought to liberate Europe, to defend freedom in Korea and Vietnam, and to combat aggression in Kuwait a decade ago.
As our fathers and grandfathers fought against and defeated Nazism, fascism, and communism, our generation must confront terrorism. You have answered the call.
We know that you neither wanted this war nor fired the first shot. The war against America began on September 11, 2001, with the murder of 3,000 Americans. You fight in their name.
You fight in the name of our children and our children's children who will not have to face a world dominated by terror.
We know that all war is brutal, ugly, and dangerous. But we also know that the price of inaction is even worse. We have learned the lessons of history - that the fruit of appeasement is war on an even more brutal scale. You fight so that the world will not have to face the nightmare of a tyrant like Saddam Hussein armed with chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons which he can use to threaten, intimidate, and murder. You fight today so that others will not have to fight even more savage battles in the future.
We know that you have seen the antiwar protests around the world and in our own country. But know this: your country is behind you.
You are our sons, our daughters, our brothers and sisters; our wives and husbands. You are the best this country has to offer.
In the difficult hours ahead, as President Bush said, "the success of our cause will depend on you. Your training has prepared you. Your honor will guide you. You believe in America, and America believes in you."
You fight IN OUR NAME.
About support...
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your consul, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget ye were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams
You know, our little Rhiannon is over there, along with a few hundred thousand other soldiers who are all special to the people who love them. According to the news reports, some of these soldiers are dying. The point of their mission is to keep a Jack@$$ dictator with a very bad history from using nuclear weapons whenever and wherever he decides to have a hissy fit. The only people who should support this war are the ones with a vested interest in staying alive and free.
I don't think I'd have the patience to deliver those nose punches one at a time, but I found the post very funny. Anyone besides me for a new law requiring immediate deportation for anyone who spits on a returning soldier?
To me, war was always something they made movies about. Now that my friends are involved, war is the worst thing I've ever heard of. My mom always taught me to turn the other cheek. I was the biggest kid in the neighborhood, and she was afraid I'd really hurt someone. Because I wouldn't fight, I got picked on constantly. The day a bulley knocked out my front teeth, my stance on non-violence changed drastically and immediately. My response was swift, bloody, and nearly got me sent to the juvinile home. Moral? It's easier to be a pacifist if the injury is not a personal, life-changing event, but should a citizen wait until it's HIS @$$ before he supports the efforts of the goverment and our soldiers to keep us safe?
About war...
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stewart Mill
Hell yes you can be against a war and support our troops! Not every war that was fought had a just cause. Our troops are our sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers ect... (even me) We swore an oath to follow our leaders, right or wrong.
"I have sworn upon the altar of Almighty God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
-- Thomas Jefferson
As such as the Iraqi government forces people to throw themselves at our soldiers with the threat of killing whole families, chemical attacks on villages, and execution of British soldiers and Saddam's own people.
Anyone remember the Iraqi soccer team? I hope that Sean Penn feels better about supporting no action against a monster.
And across from France...
"Never turn your back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!"
-- Winston Churchill
Yet our friends in France sell the Iraqi's material that can be used against the people of Iraq and the rest of the world in a hostility.
Saddam kills his own people even now. Might even be blowing stuff up in Baghdad to make it look like we're killing civilians...
"Any excuse will serve a tyrant."
-- Aesop - "The Wolf and the Lamb"
With all of this, there appears to be some animisity from other countries...
As such...
"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain
When things are all said and done, I prefer all those who do not support action to humble themselves by staying inside, hiding as they did before, under the protection that the United States provides.
And interestingly, the "Coalition of the Willing" is growing...
Will the liberated Iraqi's waste their liberty when it comes?
"Liberty will not descend to a people; a people must raise themselves to liberty; it is a blessing that must be earned before it can be enjoyed."
-- Charles Colton
It won't be pretty.
It won't be easy.
Maybe lastly...
"War is an evil thing; but to submit to the dictation of other states is worse.... Freedom, if we hold fast to it, will ultimately restore our losses, but submission will mean permanent loss of all that we value.... To you who call yourselves men of peace, I say: You are not safe unless you have men of action on your side."
-- Thucydides - 413 B.C.
QuoteHell yes you can be against a war and support our troops! Not every war that was fought had a just cause. Our troops are our sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers ect... (even me) We swore an oath to follow our leaders, right or wrong.
Is this war unjust?
"The right of a nation to kill a tyrant in case of necessity can no more be doubted than to hang a robber, or kill a flea."
-- John Adams - Constitution of Massachusetts: Declaration of Rights (1780)My oath was to protect the US and the Constitution, etc. And as such, our leaders swore that oath. We were never to follow orders that were WRONG. Indeed, telling someone that they are wrong can be quite painful, but, as things have been stated before, freedom is not free.
Recently, I read about the Tuskegee Airmen, the Black gentlemen that were trained as aviators during WWII. They walked into an Officer's Club that was for "White's Only". They were taken out, put up on charges, ordered to sign a statement that they would not go in to that club. They refused with the threat of courtmartial and the death penalty.
They won. More so, because they knew what was right.
QuoteYou know, our little Rhiannon is over there, along with a few hundred thousand other soldiers who are all special to the people who love them. According to the news reports, some of these soldiers are dying... only people who should support this war are the ones with a vested interest in staying alive and free.
And to support our troops without supporting the war is what?
Making sure that they have food and water....but no bullets, fuel, or helmets? I need someone that actually "supports the troops" but does "not support the war" explain exactly how that can be?
QuoteAnyone besides me for a new law requiring immediate deportation for anyone who spits on a returning soldier?
Seems like there might be enough community policing available on that subject this time around that I doubt anyone will be doing that...
Events leading up to September 11th, 2001, we ignored. I cannot ignore the occurances of that day.
It is for that day that I looked with great concern at the world that my two darling boys might have to live in...
War was put on us by others. To think that we weren't...'tis a lie...
"It is in vain, Sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace! -- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the North will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that Gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
-- Patrick Henry, March, 1775
I prefer to be flamed by those of you who disagree.
It isn't easy to be wrong, and it might be harder to be right.
But in our world where a butcher like Saddam, with no restriction, no morality, is able to do what he does...and no one thinks that what he's doing is wrong? And that some believe that we should do nothing?
Didn't Tony Blair say something like, "...there is no reasoning, no meating of the minds...defeat it...or be defeated." There is no reasoning with the Iraqi govenment. Everything is exhausted. The war goes on and must continue until it is done.
If we agree that Saddam is bad...
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-- Edmund Burke - (British statesman - 1756)
And by not supporting the war over just supporting the troops...
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; otherwise they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."
-- Edmund Burke - (British statesman - 1756)
Good Lord, Dave! I'm exhausted! WTF did you come up with all those quotes? I feel like I just took history class all over again, except history class wasn't that well thought out.
That took some time. Well done.
i just want to make a few comments about all this war stuff....
Super Dave-
QuoteI did not support the war in 1990/1991.
(from the War in Irag thread)
umm... so does that mean that you didnt support the troops back then? ??? ;)
we've already established that i am very anti war.... so no need to open that can of worms again. but just because i detest war does not mean that i do not support our troops who are over there fighting. whether they agree with the war or not, they HAVE to go, that's part of the oath that they swore and the risk that they took in joining the service. is it wrong to respect those who either are doing what they feel is right (the soldiers who agree with the war) or those who are just doing the duty they swore they would do(because they dont agree with the war) simply because I do not agree with it? no, i dont think it is. is it possible to separate those fighting the war from the war its self? yes, yes it is. i have immense respect for those who right now are risking their lives for this war (just or unjust), and every day i pray that this war is over soon with as little casualties as possible. but that doesnt mean i agree with this war, and just because i dont agree with this war does NOT mean that i do not support our troops. do i not care about rhiannon or nates brother or any other soldier for that matter simply because i do not support the war? that is preposterous. i want everyone to come back as soon and as safely as possible.
ok, i'll get off my soap box now ::)
-jen
Ladies and gentlemen, there is the way things ought to be, and there is the way things are. Welcome to reality. There are evil people in this world that need to be killed. Period. God bless our troops.
Quotejust because i dont agree with this war does NOT mean that i do not support our troops. do i not care about rhiannon or nates brother or any other soldier for that matter simply because i do not support the war? that is preposterous. i want everyone to come back as soon and as safely as possible.
I'll start at the end of your statement. I blew away some of my stuff that I wrote earlier...I'll finish that later. So, I'll start here.
Without the full support of the people, OUR soldiers cannot complete their task safely or in a timely manner. Want a good example? Viet Nam. There are some good reasons for that war too (how many MILLIONS of people were butchered in Viet Nam, Laos, and Cambodia?). There are many reasons for the failures there, but...
Is the point of peace to stand by to watch millions get murdered? Is that peace? Is it "peace" when Saddam kills 200,000 people? Is it worth the 37 American hero's lives at this time for the good that we are trying to produce. There will be more, but they are not dying doing a "job" or trying to get out of a club in New England. They are people that are willing to do what it takes to make sure that right is right.
Soldiers carry a big burden. They are people that are passionate about our country, the great experiment. They are willing to fight to protect it, and the people that live in it. Soldiers fight for a cause. Their cause is to rid the world of the danger of a regime that kills its own people, supports those that terrorize others, and poses a threat to the world. Again, the meeting of the minds, the reasoning has not worked.
Orders and following them...
That requires trust and a sense of duty. However, to do something that is wrong... a soldier must not follow that. Re-read my note about the Tuskegee Airmen.
And to willingly put yourself in harms way with a great potential to die...it's not something that one does easily. It comes with great conviction and trust that the right thing is being done. The conviction that it takes to do that... Imagine the feelings that the signers of the Delaration of Independence felt; by signing that document, they placed themselve in the position to be hanged, drawn, and quartered.
K3...wish I could remember them all. Found a nice website. There was one statement in particular that I wanted...found that one, but there were so many good ones.
Ah, remember, if we do not study history, it is bound to repeat itself.
And here we are.... the Patriots from the past speak to us.
Quote"Never turn your back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!"
-- Winston Churchill
When Osamas' followers killed 1000's of 'ours' they were labeled terrorists and we crushed them and hunt the remains of them yet today. This was considered an unprovoked attack by most and was/is being dealt with accordingly.
Saddam and his followers have killed and maimed over a million of 'his own' over the last two decades and have/seek weapons that could kill or maim millions of 'ours' in one swift act.
Pre-emptive war to avert future mass tragedy of 'ours' and 'theirs' that releases a whole country from the stanglehold of someone like Saddam seems just to me. After so many years of ever increasing brutality and killing by Saddam, I believe that turning our back on Iraq and 'minding our own business' would eventually have come to 'our' shores and 'we' would be in the obvious succession of this mad-man's killing exploits. 'More time' would only benefit Saddam and give him an even greater sense of invincibility and of being feared by the world.
Danger was lurking in the shadows with Saddam in power, running and hiding from this threat is not an option for our country, ultimately 'we' are the prize target for most all terrorists. Turning our back will only result in 'us' getting shot from behind, while looking the other way.
QuoteSuper Dave-
(from the War in Irag thread)
umm... so does that mean that you didnt support the troops back then? ??? ;)
-jen
Ok, hopefully, I will answer this without blowing it away.
I did not support the war in 1990/1991.
And I have a National Defense ribbon in my possesion and on my DD Form 214. For normal people, that means that I was available in the military inventory. I did not go to Iraq, potentially my unit might have gone to Germany to replace troops that were leaving to go to Iraq. I was just finishing my last semester for my BS in December of 1990, I had signed a contract to ride Bimota's for the Roscetti Corporation, and I was accepted into graduate school for the spring semester.
So, I did not support the war then. Why?
The war was "sold" differently. Iraq invaded Kuwait. Pretty bold thing to do. I mean, who invades countries anymore in the interest of taking them over like that? And to that end, it seemed like an Arab issue; an Arab country invading another Arab country...Arab countries should take care of their own business.
What was not pushed... The fact that the invading Iraqi army raped and pillaged the people of Kuwait, the real butality of Saddam was not well publicized. We knew that he fought Iran in the early 80's... And to most of us that was good. If you don't know, Iranian's took over the American Embassy in 1980(?) and held American's hostage for over one year. We counted the days. After a failed rescue attempt under the Carter administation, the hostages were released soon after Ronald Reagan became president.
So, I did not support the war.
As one of the people in uniform, I probably "supported" the troops like you did, Jen. But is that really support?
Can you support someone when you do not support what they do? I say that's like being a citizen of the Roman Republic and supporting Christians, but not supporting the Roman Colosseum. You can't support the person and not the action that they take. I believe that what I did then, and you today do, was to only respect the people as individuals.
As the war went well, I could see the resolve in what we were doing, and it was good. The commitment was incredible.
A good friend of mine was in the Air Force and was in Iraq before all the hostilities broke out in 1991. He knew before most people that we were going to war. He was instructed to make out his will and write a few letters home. They did not expect his plane to last long in combat; they would be tracking planes and phone calls, etc. without much cover of escort. Yes, he did it because of orders, but he also understood that he was there to take care of business.
During the conflict, everyone was glued to the TV. I watched as six or nine missiles fell down on a Saudi air base as a plane landed live. My phone rang, and it was my friend...who was on that plane.
So, Jen, years ago, there wasn't much of a case made. This time around, the case is pretty clear. September 11, 2001 is part of it. War was put on us. We didn't have a choice with that.
Peace is often result of harmony that often comes from: war(WWII) or the potential for mutual destruction (the Cold War). Can you give a perspective on that?
Every soldier is anti-war. Why would anyone be pro-war?
And what case would it take for you to believe that anyone should go to war?
Here's one for you...
Let's say you and Nate are with his cousin. Nate's cousin is a nice guy. Everyone gets along well. The phone rings and someone is breaking into Nate's cousin's house. What do you do? Probably call the police. The police go there and find a guy that's in there that has cut off Nate's cousin's leg and is beginning to do unspeakable acts to him. There are witnesses everywhere. They capture the guy and let him go. You hear about a breaking and entering story in the newspapers.
Lets say you hear about that same guy that did the stuff to Nate's cousin again. Now, you find out that he's actually a serial killer and has been for years and years. There is evidence everywhere. He's been put on trial as a John Doe, in Grand Jury's, etc. They just need him to put him away. He's on the loose and now it seems he has other "serial killer" contacts that group together. They don't really like each other, but they have common interests. One of those contacts broke into Nate's house while he was home. Nate was tied up at knife point, but the contact was only able to carve on his chest for a while before you walked in. He left. Nate is injured but he will survive.
What to do? Our serial killers are Saddam Hussein, his regime, and the terrorist forces that have attacked us. Nate's cousin is Kuwait. Nate is the United states. You're the people of the US (or the world, for that matter). Do you just support the "police" that they can do things as respectable people? Or do you give them your full support that the cause they have is just for you and for others?
My God man. Who put the nickel in Dave & when does it run out?
LOL! I'm just one big tangent! 8)
QuoteI say that's like being a citizen of the Roman Republic and supporting Christians, but not supporting the Roman Colosseum.
Ok, I'm going to assume that we are talking about the Roman Empire before Christianity was granted the freedom to worship in the empire in 313 under the rule of Constantine and Licinius and before it became its official religion in the late 300's and since after 404 gladiatorial battles were banned due to Christianity being the official religion (man i love ancient history ;) ) .... The fact that Christians were killed in the roman colesseum would probably make anybody who supports Christians not want to support the Roman Colosseum. Just because you are a citizin of an Empire does not mean that you have to agree with what your government does (freedom of speach, freedom of thought, and freedom of expression) It's probably good to make note that the roman colosseum was a building and more of a government aided program than the Roman government it's self and definately was not affilitated with Christianity. So yes, actually I agree with your statement. I think a more correct statement for your side of the argument would have been something like this " It's like being a United States citizen and supporting poor people, but not supporting welfare" (by the way, I support the cause of poor people and support welfare ;) )
I think it is also a good time to point out that right now everyone who pays taxes (myself included) is supporting the troops with
Quotefood and water.... bullets, fuel, [and] helmets
and whatever else the troops need. Unless someone knows a way to get back your taxes that are going towards this war, monetarally we are all supporting the war and the troops, whether we agree with the war or not, or whether we support the troops or not.
QuoteHere's one for you...
Let's say you and Nate are with his cousin. Nate's cousin is a nice guy. Everyone gets along well. The phone rings and someone is breaking into Nate's cousin's house. What do you do? Probably call the police. The police go there and find a guy that's in there that has cut off Nate's cousin's leg and is beginning to do unspeakable acts to him. There are witnesses everywhere. They capture the guy and let him go. You hear about a breaking and entering story in the newspapers.
Lets say you hear about that same guy that did the stuff to Nate's cousin again. Now, you find out that he's actually a serial killer and has been for years and years. There is evidence everywhere. He's been put on trial as a John Doe, in Grand Jury's, etc. They just need him to put him away. He's on the loose and now it seems he has other "serial killer" contacts that group together. They don't really like each other, but they have common interests. One of those contacts broke into Nate's house while he was home. Nate was tied up at knife point, but the contact was only able to carve on his chest for a while before you walked in. He left. Nate is injured but he will survive.
Ok, this isnt really a good example from you, as I support our US justice system to the fullest but do not support our Government when it comes to this war, but I'll talk about it none the less... I would support the police, attorneys, judges, and jury that would bring Nate's and his cousin's perpetrators to justice. I would support them as people doing the respectable thing, because they believe that it is a just cause (no matter what I might think) and because it is their duty that they have been sworn to uphold.
Also, I think it's important to point out that we are NOT debating the war here, that was done in the War in Iraq thread. Unless I missed something in between all of Super Daves posts, we are only discussing the support of our troops. I dont agree with the war, but I have respect and support for those who are out there right now doing what they think is right, be them troops or protesters. Whether or not I agree with their cause, at least they believe in something and are doing what they think is right.
I'll prolly get a lot of flames from people, but I really dont care. This all is getting pretty old. You all can say all you want that I am unpatriotic and unAmerican or that I'm not suporting our troops or whatever. I really dont care. I know that
I suport
our troops fully and that is all that matters. I'm probably not going to respond to this thread anymore. This all really just seems rather pointless. You guys arent going to change my mind, and I probably will not change yours, so there is no point. And unless Super Dave has some more quotes for us, is there really anything else to say that hasnt already been said?
- Jen
QuoteI think it is also a good time to point out that right now everyone who pays taxes (myself included) is supporting the troops with
and whatever else the troops need. Unless someone knows a way to get back your taxes that are going towards this war, monetarally we are all supporting the war and the troops, whether we agree with the war or not, or whether we support the troops or not.
But how much do you pay? You get your taxes back? (Student? Grants, Loans? etc?) Or do you make more money than I where you actually pay in a substantial amount that you don't get returned at tax time? (Another tangent...)
QuoteI'll prolly get a lot of flames from people, but I really dont care. This all is getting pretty old. You all can say all you want that I am unpatriotic and unAmerican or that I'm not suporting our troops or whatever. I really dont care.
Nah, I don't think anyone spreads any flames here.
You have some good points. Unfortunately, I've got so many things going on here before school on Thursday, I can't completely respond.
But, you have good insight. And it's fun. So, don't quit on us now.
At what point would you feel that war would be justified, Jen?
In my examples above with Nate and his cousin, we called the police in to do their thing. In Iraq, we have sent troops there to do their thing. The interests of soldiers are trying to bring ...
Quoteperpetrators to justice. I would support them as people doing the respectable thing, because they believe that it is a just cause
Here's a different side.
Saddam's and his regime believe that they have just cause to use chemical weapons against a village. And to murder 200,000 women, children, and men after the first Persian Gulf War.
I think that anyone can justify anything for "just"... I guess when I think of just, I think of the morality of the decision.
So, now, is it
morally just for the United States and the coalition to go in to try and stop what is happening.
Nazi Germany "justified" their exermination of Jews. We could probably come up with some "justification" on what happens in Israel, but let's not go there now.
Next, is it
morally incorrect to knowingly allow someone like Saddam to kill people, torture them, etc? I believe that this basically falls under the heading of transfered self defense; I someone cannot defend themselves, you are obligated to help them. I would follow that it is "unjustified" to NOT take action. The bonus is the fact that we will beable to secure some slowing down of the spread and training of terrorists.
Thoughts?
You all do race motorcycles, right? :P
QuoteYou all do race motorcycles, right? :P
LOL... Well, I don't think Jen and Dawn do... But they are allowed...LOL!
The ingenuity and integrity of the American soldier might be beyond any fighting force ever. It doesn't just come from the idea of "doing a job", but it comes from doing a job for the right reason. Were it not for the American soldier...we would not be...
Got a nice e-mail...
I want you to close your eyes and picture in your mind the soldier at Valley Forge, as he holds his musket in his bloody hands. He stands barefoot in the snow, starved from lack of food, wounded from months of battle and emotionally scarred from the eternity away from his family surrounded by nothing but death and carnage of war. He stands though, with fire in his eyes and victory on his breath. He looks at us now in anger and disgust and tells us this...
I gave you a birthright of freedom born in the Constitution and now your children graduate too illiterate to read it.
I fought in the snow barefoot to give you the freedom to vote and you stay at home because it rains.
I left my family destitute to give you the freedom of speech and you remain silent on critical issues, because it might be bad for business.
I orphaned my children to give you a government to serve you and it has stolen democracy from the people.
It's the soldier, not the reporter who gives you the freedom of the press.
It's the soldier, not the poet who gives you the freedom of speech.
It's the soldier, not the campus organizer who allows you to demonstrate.
It's the soldier, who salutes the flag, serves the flag, whose coffin is draped with the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag!!!
The fortitude of the American Soldiers in Iraq is to do the right thing, take care of business... They know what Saddam has done. I think they understand what is right. There is a sense of morality in this issue?
How much
Jen in particular pays is beside the point. I know Jen didn't make anything over the standard deduciton this year. But, if you're a college student for instance who doesnt pay taxes because you only make 3K/yr w/ your part time job, should that mean you shouldn't vote?
Wait, isn't about 20-35 cents/gallon of gas Federal tax? So, Jen DID pay SOMETHING to the feds this past year. ;)
Either way, I think both SD and Jen made some good points, and it was interesting to read through.
Jef4y: LOL! My thoughts as well --->
QuoteWho put the nickel in Dave & when does it run out?
I'm the Energizer Bunny! LOL!
I thought I didn't want to go on the tax tangent!
I don't expect her to pay federal tax, as it seems I'm correct. Does that give anyone less of a vote...no, obviously not.
And gas taxes go toward roads, not towards military expendatures. I guess it depends upon how you look at it.
Yeah. but since some of her $ went to pay for roads and such, that frees up more $ for military/defense use, right? ;) ;D :P ::)
QuoteYeah. but since some of her $ went to pay for roads and such, that frees up more $ for military/defense use, right? ;) ;D :P ::)
Please stop......
Another tangent!!!!! :o
LOL!!!!
Dawn :)
QuoteYeah. but since some of her $ went to pay for roads and such, that frees up more $ for military/defense use, right? ;) ;D :P ::)
LOL! True.
But also more funds for Welfare for the people that will be out of work when terrorists destroy more stuff in the US. They destroy companies that can't afford to rebuild, loose jobs...
No companies and no work...no revenue.
Then there will be no funding for universities and colleges because a lack of revenue.
More people on welfare... more crime...
Can I stop, Dawn....
:D
QuotePlease stop......
Another tangent!!!!! :o
LOL!!!!
Dawn :)
WHERE the HELL is THURSDAY ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Dawn,
Super_Dave,
Jeff,
Super_Duck,
Nate,
Jen,
SpeedBaller347,
SDiver68,
GsxracerMike,
harb990,
AM#996, :)
Mongrel,
MightyDuc Racing,
K3,
Dave(Dahustla),
ANYBODY seen THURSDAY 4/3/03 ????????????
>:(<explicit> (D$%*@!$*!!!) >:(
Ike
oh,>:( and no, my bike is not ready >:(
can we just get to it
LOL! ;D ;D :D 8)
I would like to sit down and have a beer... But I can't drink beer anymore... Makes me "stranger" than I already am... :-/
QuoteLOL! ;D ;D :D 8)
I would like to sit down and have a beer... But I can't drink beer anymore... Makes me "stranger" than I already am... :-/
get a coffee, Super_Sir,
relaxes me.... :-/
i know that im late on the issue, and wont try to put allll my feelings down,
but will add one....
we have no REAL clue as to how many threats the U.S. receives from these
world wide tyrants.
and i liken them to a pirate ship thats rite off the coast, and is lobbing threats along with (hi-jacked) planes into occupied buildings, and bombs into our shorelines.
(thats two, you got me)
it's pretty short and brief tho,
WE'RE gonna go out and GET'EM !!!
not real tuff at all....
ike
servin em up for da Rev...
LOL, Ike!
Thursday = two more "go-to-work's" and three more "go-home's". And it's gonna be WARM AND SUNNY!!!!!!!!!
Ike, your words sooth my soul alone... no coffee needed...
QuoteLOL, Ike!
Thursday = two more "go-to-work's" and three more "go-home's". And it's gonna be WARM AND SUNNY!!!!!!!!!
shhhh.....:-[ :-[ :-[
im excited :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
QuoteIke, your words sooth my soul alone... no coffee needed...
COOL !!!
if these people who disagree with war had to man (or woman) the phones and take in the threats....
IT"D BE DIFF !!!!
disclaimer:
this is only opinion...
nite...
:D :D :D ;D ;D ;D Friday, I'll be out there! ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D
Is it Friday morning yet?
Friday it is for me too! Looks like low 50's as of now for the whole weekend, hope it's at least that. Just running my out-dated 600 this weekend and will probably be slow as hell due to all the spare energy reserves I have accumulated over the winter (pronounced: fat). Shooting for 1:40 laps by the end of the event - LOL ;D
QuoteIs the point of peace to stand by to watch millions get murdered? Is that peace? Is it "peace" when Saddam kills 200,000 people?
For those that did not support the war, but supported the troops...
I am still waiting for an answer to my questions above.
There was evidence before the war about this. More evidence is growing now that most of the "hard" action is done. Was it worth the lives of our soldiers to do what was right?
Was it right?
Simple answers are good, yes or no. But no answer is cowardly.
Like I said...I like it when we kick a bullie's ass. ;)
Funny how a bully always turns into a coward when confronted. :-/