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Racing Discussion => Racing Discussion => Topic started by: m7734 on January 12, 2009, 09:16:24 AM

Title: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: m7734 on January 12, 2009, 09:16:24 AM
I've been having a terrible time trying to get the suspension settings correct on my 06 gsxr 600. I have had the forks re-sprung & re-valved by gp suspension and also have fork externder caps installed. I have a penske double out back. Where could I take to bike to get some good baseline settings (geometry and sag/rebound/compression settings) and good recommendations in terms of tires (i.e. best brand for the midwest tracks and which size rear tire to run - 180 vs. 190)? Ideally the shop would offer good trackside support, work with me to tweak the settings, and have loads of experience setting up the 06-07 gsxr's.  Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: benprobst on January 12, 2009, 11:04:16 AM
http://lithiummotorsports.com/suspension.htm

Rob is the man, great guy and 1st class service. Not to mention he stands behind his stuff better than anyone I have come across.
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: Super Dave on January 12, 2009, 01:25:12 PM
There might be a new Penske support set up in the works.
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: RCR_531 on January 12, 2009, 04:53:23 PM
Yes Rob will be at the track to help you with or questions. Give him a call at Lithium Motorsports 1-800-894-7190
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: Scotty Ryan on January 13, 2009, 01:20:14 AM
Quote from: m7734 on January 12, 2009, 09:16:24 AM
I've been having a terrible time trying to get the suspension settings correct on my 06 gsxr 600. I have had the forks re-sprung & re-valved by gp suspension and also have fork externder caps installed. I have a penske double out back. Where could I take to bike to get some good baseline settings (geometry and sag/rebound/compression settings) and good recommendations in terms of tires (i.e. best brand for the midwest tracks and which size rear tire to run - 180 vs. 190)? Ideally the shop would offer good trackside support, work with me to tweak the settings, and have loads of experience setting up the 06-07 gsxr's.  Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!  :thumb:

What tracks are you talking about specifically?
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: BrettRay76 on January 13, 2009, 05:25:10 AM
Where are you at in the "Midwest"? I would be willing to give you a hand if you are anywhere close or at the same track. No charge.
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: alexm on January 13, 2009, 05:34:56 PM
Quote from: Hank Reardon on January 12, 2009, 01:25:12 PM
There might be a new Penske support set up in the works.

That sounds wicked, please tell us more!
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: Super Dave on January 13, 2009, 05:41:37 PM
Quote from: alexm on January 13, 2009, 05:34:56 PM
That sounds wicked, please tell us more!
PM coming toward you, Alex.
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: m7734 on January 14, 2009, 09:56:24 AM
Thanks for the responses!

I've come across a lot of inconsistent information as far as geometry in my research thus far. Some people swear by the 190's, while others prefer the 180's. Most everyone I've seen raises the front end of the bike between 5mm and 15mm. However, I've seen some people really jack up the rear end, allegedly in order to get some swingarm angle, and I've seen others run the rear a relatively modest eye-to-eye length of around 320mm. I'm not sure how the 190 vs 180 debate affects these numbers. I also understand that the sag you run has a major effect on the overall geometry - I've seen people all across the board here too. I'm also pretty lost on the whole compression/rebound settings.

The tracks I hopefully be frequenting will be Blackhawk Farms, Road America, Topeka, and possibly Autobahn, Gingerman, etc...

Brett - thanks for the offer! Hopefully we can hook up sometime this season!
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: JBraun on January 14, 2009, 11:58:16 AM
The majority of what you mentioned is relative. For example I know a lot of guys who swear by 190s, but they don't work for me.
You have to make that decision based on your preferences.

Geometry is similar in that regard. Although there is no "magic numbers", you can start with a reliable chassis setup that will allow you to go quite fast, and make adjustments from there based on your feedback. In most cases with modern bikes, the stock setup is good enough to turn really fast lap times. I would duplicate your stock geometry and have a knowledgable person measure your sag and get you some baseline dampening settings. From there, it's up to you to ride the bike and make changes. Just keep good notes, because it's easy to get lost, and that way you can get back to zero.
Bring the bike by the Lithium pit any time. We'd be happy to help out. Theres a good chance I'll be at whatever events Rob is unable to make in the Midwest. So if you don't see the Lithium rig, look for Ex #29
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: avdigigeek on January 14, 2009, 09:45:28 PM
I've had pretty good luck with both of these guys
http://www.superbikeitalia.com/
http://www.turnoneracing.com/
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: Gixxerblade on January 15, 2009, 12:59:22 AM
Call T-Man for a baseline. Heck I am suprised GP didn't give you a baseline considering you gave them your business. Like someone else said though suspension is all about how you feel. Make sure that you track your changes and you will be able to see where you are making up time. It sort makes you "listen" to what your bike is doing.
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: Eric Kelcher on January 15, 2009, 10:47:57 AM
Quote from: Hank Reardon on January 12, 2009, 01:25:12 PM
There might be a new Penske support set up in the works.

I can confirm this, we received the support program details yesterday.

Penske will be offering contingency in ASRA Thunderbike and SuperStock and CCS events that coincide with ASRA pro races in Ex Middleweight Supersport and Am Middleweight Supersport and GT Lights. Full details will be posted shortly.

Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: khanson on January 17, 2009, 04:53:42 PM
On a 600 only run the 180 if you have the option.

180 accelerates noticably faster and turns easier.

190....what you gain in sidegrip doesn't counter the acceleration....plus the tire is heavier.
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: Super Dave on January 17, 2009, 05:00:37 PM
Personally, I liked the 180 even on my GSXR750.
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: red900 on January 19, 2009, 08:01:57 PM
Quote from: khanson on January 17, 2009, 04:53:42 PM
On a 600 only run the 180 if you have the option.

180 accelerates noticably faster and turns easier.

190....what you gain in sidegrip doesn't counter the acceleration....plus the tire is heavier.


Kevin, then why does M4 use the 190 on there suzuki 600's? 

I have used the 190 rear on my 600 for the last two years. I get much more sidegrip, enough that i have be careful not to plow the front turning the gas to soon...  Noticable difference in my opinion.
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: benprobst on January 19, 2009, 10:32:28 PM
Quote from: red900 on January 19, 2009, 08:01:57 PM

Kevin, then why does M4 use the 190 on there suzuki 600's? 

I have used the 190 rear on my 600 for the last two years. I get much more sidegrip, enough that i have be careful not to plow the front turning the gas to soon...  Noticable difference in my opinion.

Because they are on Pirelli's and need all the help they can get with side grip?




:biggrin:
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: Burt Munro on January 20, 2009, 01:15:27 AM
You're development is coming along quite nicely Master Ben!    :cheers:
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: zoner on January 20, 2009, 04:28:52 AM
If you had GP do the work, give Dave a call and explain whats going on with the bike. They know what valving/spring combination you have and should be able to answer any questions you have.
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: Super Dave on January 20, 2009, 07:15:26 AM
Quote from: benprobst on January 19, 2009, 10:32:28 PM
Because they are on Pirelli's and need all the help they can get with side grip?
Safety First used Michelin through 2007, but they also used Pirelli during most of 2008.  Kevin's experiences would be based on their set up.  I think Bobby did pretty darn good.
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: Sklossmonster on January 20, 2009, 03:14:13 PM
In my experience covering races between Jeff Wood and Robert Jensen,both on 600s, they both chose to run different size rear tires.  Both racers were well ahead of the rest of the pack, and both racers chose to run different widths of tires.

The truth is, different riders, different bikes, different tires, different set ups, yet both racers ended up with similar lap times and nearly identical results.

Anyone who says one size is better than another size isn't really considering all the facts.
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: MegRyan on January 21, 2009, 03:39:55 PM
Well the deal is done and the press release will be out in the next few days but Mark Stiles and Scotty Ryan bought Trackside Suspension. It will now be called Trackside Suspension and Engineering. The website is not up and running yet but that will be shortly. We will be at all the BHF and HPT races and trackdays along with Road America.
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: Super Dave on January 21, 2009, 03:50:16 PM
Quote from: stiles46 on January 21, 2009, 03:39:55 PM
Well the deal is done and the press release will be out in the next few days but Mark Stiles and Scotty Ryan bought Trackside Suspension. It will now be called Trackside Suspension and Engineering. The website is not up and running yet but that will be shortly. We will be at all the BHF and HPT races and trackdays along with Road America.
Thanks for the final word, Meghan.  Been worth the wait!
Title: Re: Midwest Suspension Support?
Post by: MegRyan on January 22, 2009, 03:52:40 PM
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=35394