http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=32836
Wow, and this quote from Roger Edmonson is perhaps the most stunning:
"I have no idea," said Edmondson. "I know that there is one, but I don't know who they are. But this is not an issue that riders should be taking up, in my mind. It's not appropriate that one rider determines whether or not another rider can ride. It's only appropriate that one rider determines whether or not he rides."
If riders aren't stakeholders in "rider safety," then who is? Guys who never have any of their own skin in the game, literally? I don't know how the Safety Council membership is selected, but if it's somehow representative of the riders' opinions as a group (i.e., the AMA member riders help select the council members), then the notion that those opinions shouldn't be counted is ridiculous. I wonder if this is the attitude that DMG will take on other issues as well.
Could this guy sound any more pompus? What qualifies him to make a safety decision? The riders who are out there putting their neck on the line SHOULD be the ones contributing to safety concerns.
"This is my chance for a big payday"..........WTF is that? Tell that to the two riders his ignorance almost killed at Iowa
I think that comment was more about his feeling that the riders committee would be biased, I don't think he meant that about himself.
Thats odd...
Nascar doesn't race in the rain.
XIII
OK, his follow-up email is even more ridiculous. First, it doesn't even mention anything about his previous comment regarding the Safety Council and his outrageous statement that riders shouldn't be the ones deciding what's safe and what's not.
Then, he goes on:
"Our television partner must have the assurance that we are going to provide them with content for the time slot reserved for our races...Our promoters must be able to sell advance tickets and sponsorships with confidence that we will meet our contractual obligations to organize an event..."
I don't follow NASCAR, but IF they don't race in the rain, as someone else posted above, then wouldn't Edmonson's statements be just a bit hypocritical? Or is he implying something about the relative popularity of the various series, that NASCAR can withstand such things and other series, such as AMA Pro Racing, cannot? This guy is really showing his true colors here. I understand that financial considerations are vital to the survival of the sport at a high level, but to offer no explanation as to why not running in the rain is OK for some series and not others just highlights his double-talk.
Furthermore, this statement is also ridiculous:
"There are no statistics that prove or even imply that wet conditions are a special hazard too great to be chanced...I cannot accept that the four facilities that are the subject of this document represent such unique characteristics that they must be "cut from the herd" and singled out for such discrimination."
Again, without even going in to why NASCAR doesn't race in the rain, he's trying to make the objections to these specific tracks seem to be part of a general objection to racing in the rain, which they're clearly NOT. Why doesn't he just do the obvious thing, which is to take a list of the demanded improvements in order for those tracks to be approved for wet racing, and then go down the list and demonstrate that each item on the list has been addressed? All he said about Mid-Ohio was that it had complied with AMA's requests, and he provided some high-level facts about Road Atlanta, but that's it.
Instead, the heavy-handed approach that he's taking gives the appearance that he's just trying to have his way without debating the facts, probably to set precedent going forward that DMG is The Boss and the riders had dare not challenge their word, in a, "So Let it be Written, So let it be Done..." sort of way.
The first one on RRW was a phone interview with Dave Swarts. The second was an email Roger sent out to clarify things.
The more I read and hear what RE has to say, the more I'm convinced he's channeling Bernie Ecclestone of the FIA ;)
Quote from: kl3640 on June 13, 2008, 12:04:50 AM
OK, his follow-up email is even more ridiculous.
I'm not sure if thats his attempt at damage control, but it sure didn't make me feel ay better!
It's clearly all bout the mighty $. They are more concerned with production costs and sponsorships than human lives.
Quote from: Xian_13 on June 12, 2008, 09:37:10 PM
Thats odd...
Nascar doesn't race in the rain.
XIII
Neither do they at the Indy 500 or any other oval race. Certain tracks just are not safe when wet period. Doesnt matter if its 2 or 4 wheels.
Interestingly, I just read this article today:
http://www.forbes.com/2008/06/11/nascar-car-values-biz-cx_jg_0611nascar_land.html?feed=rss_popstories
It kind of highlights how much of a "big business" a motorsports series can be, as these teams can't make this kind of money without a series in which to showcase themselves (and by extension, their sponsors). The values of these teams really says something about their series.
I'm sure that R.E. and DMG are hoping to replicate the financial success of NASCAR to some extent (though I doubt that motorcycle racing could every reach that size in an absolute sense, it could certainly have a lot of value in its own right).
I have no doubt that all of their moves are with that goal in mind, and not the advancement of motorcycle sport.
Should be interesting to see how things develop over the next 8 or 9 months.
It sounds like Mladin :wah: and the other big time AMA boys are not taking much of a shine :finger: to Roger & DMG's vision or direction.
My guess (speculation only - no facts to support) it'll likely be some sort of a compromise for the first year or two. Then it will gradually become two wheeled NASCAR. Put no stock in this, I could be way off the mark, but similar stiuations in MGP, WSC, BSB and other series have had similar shakeups.
Sounds like there are rumblings that the big players could pack up and leave at least for a short period if they don't find some common ground. It seems like any new leadership would take the hardline initially then gradually back off until a viable position is reached, but sometimes serious errors in judgement are made and the results are not what is planned or hoped for. :wtf:
Manufacturers want to sell product. Racing is a popular way to reach the intended audience. Even Triumph and BMW are going that direction. It's hard to know what will really happen but it should fun watching.
Quote from: Ducati23 on June 15, 2008, 01:09:38 PM
Should be interesting to see how things develop over the next 8 or 9 months.
It sounds like Mladin :wah: and the other big time AMA boys are not taking much of a shine :finger: to Roger & DMG's vision or direction.
My guess (speculation only - no facts to support) it'll likely be some sort of a compromise for the first year or two. Then it will gradually become two wheeled NASCAR. Put no stock in this, I could be way off the mark, but similar stiuations in MGP, WSC, BSB and other series have had similar shakeups.
Sounds like there are rumblings that the big players could pack up and leave at least for a short period if they don't find some common ground. It seems like any new leadership would take the hardline initially then gradually back off until a viable position is reached, but sometimes serious errors in judgement are made and the results are not what is planned or hoped for. :wtf:
Manufacturers want to sell product. Racing is a popular way to reach the intended audience. Even Triumph and BMW are going that direction. It's hard to know what will really happen but it should fun watching.
I agree with your prediction, while also agreeing that it's pure speculation at this point.
Honestly, motorcycle racing tends to be followed more by general motorcycle fans (at least in this country), where as NASCAR tends to attract fans in general, much as any sport would, regardless of personal involvement in that sport. Many, many people watch watch pro football but have never played organized football at any level.
By the same token, I know many, many people who don't know the first thing about automotive mechanics or technologies, who couldn't tell you what current models of cars are trendy, etc, but who nonetheless follow NASCAR closely.
My (purely speculative) prediction is similar to yours, which is that AMA road-racing will come to be akin to what NASCAR is to automobile road racing: a different type of sport altogether from other forms of car/motorcycle racing; a form that can be enjoyed by the masses for pure entertainment value while offering little to the die-hard motorcycle enthusiasts who follow the new technology and want to see it showcased.
Essentially, they'll be picking the lowest common denominator type of sport-motorcycle and focus on just creating good entertainment for the masses while not really focusing on a series that rewards broad technical innovation (certainly NASCAR awards technical innovation, but only within the narrow confines of their homologation requirements), and perhaps not even a diverse skill set on the part of the riders.
In other words, they'll prioritize whatever form of entertainment that they can still get away with calling "motorcycle road racing" while appealing to the largest possible market in order to make the sport as successful as possible as a business (read: "Profitable" in an absolute sense).
I actually think that it will work for them, but I fear what it will do to the sport for American motorcycle-enthusiasts; much like now, where we have to look to Europe for a true non-production based road-racing series of any prestige, we may someday soon have to do the same for production-based series.
i would think that the France machine has been standing up in the tower at daytona for years think what a waste of a venue. you look out front thousands of bikers spending millions you look in the infield hundreds of bikers packing their own lunches then they study it in Europe thousands of fans filling up tracks . they have to be thinking of bringing that to life here they don't care about bikes or racing they care about money if they strong arm the right sponsors buy enough air time they will make as big as nascar. their no dummies .if you want a sponsor and you want to race you'll run the bike of tomorrow with the buell motor and that's that. their not here to play around their like walmart it's their way or the highway.think of the meeting .mister lowes or mister home depot sponsor our bike series or get the hell out of our nascar garage. i think i even bloged this when France Jr died.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=32890
Interesting how, when serving his purpose, the Riders Safety Committee is suddenly important...I thought that just a couple of days ago it didn't even exist, according to R.E.?
Ever been interviewed or quoted?
Ever actually read what RRW posts? The original posting about the RSC quoted Roger directly. This is a direct post of his press release.
Surely you don't think that RRW might have an agenda, do you?? (cough, cough)
Posting word for word an interview and then a press release shows an agenda?
Wow.
I don't think all Roger's cards have been shown. I don't think many people know enough to be comfortable. I'm sure that's true for all the club racing organizations too. I'm sure some might be thinking they should sell, buy others, align with someone, etc. Lots of reasons to be unsure.
What's that got to do with the RSC that didn't exist one week and is being worked with the following week?
As for uncertainty, not sure about Kevin and Eric but we know what we're doing next year. Going racing.
Yes, we will be racing next year, just as AFM CRA, MRA, etc will be.
Being realistic, we have room for just about any motorcycle made, regardless of whose rules it fits under. Our job is give the racers somewhere to compete, something to compete for and the experience to move on as their skills progress. We are not worried about what happens to the AMA classes, we have enough to do to getting our own series together and doing the best job we can for our racers regardless what bike or size they choose to ride.
Just as we have in the past, we will try to work with AMA Pro Racing to make things as easy as possible for our racers who want to move up and race with them. That is what we do, isn't that right Mongo?
It's really hard to be open minded about this when it looks like there will be nothing resembling the series in place now, and I think that's sad.
However, if the goal is a better show, I think it's more fun to watch heat races than qualifying sessions. I think I'd rather burn up tires and fuel in heat races, too. And, I'm very curious what carries more corner speed--a 1000cc or 600cc--if there's a difference at all when talking "superbike" 600s and the "safety" factor. Bottom line is I don't like the argument that toning down 1000s or concentrating on 600s makes racing any safer. Airfence and proper track runoff without walls makes racing "safer". I don't think the wall cares if you fall of a 1000 or 600cc bike.
I can't believe we have to make a whole new model for this to work as the series is not completely broken as is. But I'm not the one with deep pockets either. But if I did, I sure would like someone to show up for the show I paid for.
No, I don't think he's shown his cards, but what he has shown can be perceived as a pompous attitude and a lack of respect for those who ultimately demand respect in this field. Unless his plan is that no show is complete without a villian, than I believe, that, yes, as of now I don't like where things are headed.
Heather
For the most part, what's the worry ?
CCS, WERA, ASRA, LRRS, etc. will still be racing as usual. No matter what DMG does, it can only help with awareness for motorcycle racing in general. Even if the doomsday predictions happen and we end up with the Bike Of Tomorrow", regional and other national events will thrive with the benefit of AMA advertising and promotion . You'll get great racing, good people, an affordable weekend of fun and family in a great environment.
What? you want $100.00 ticket prices with the mandatory 2 T-shirt / hat rule?
The AMA / DMG is far from the " be all end all " of motorcycle racing.
Heck, I get more enjoyment from Jeff Wood trying to set a new official track record before Loudon gets a new track than what Ben and Matt are doing in AMA.
Quote from: Palanon on June 19, 2008, 04:39:59 PM
For the most part, what's the worry ?
CCS, WERA, ASRA, LRRS, etc. will still be racing as usual.
Very true!!
If I have time during the AMA Road Atlanta round I'm going to get some radar info on the different sized machinery in corners. I've been wondering that for a long time. My gut feeling is there is very little difference.
after watching maladin and spies go through the corners at daytona i would have to think they are faster than any of the 600's .even my wife commented on the difference . as for roger is he a spokesperson or is he the one calling the shots? and did he not come up with the 600 supersport idea originally ? I'm not a nascar fan and any takeover does not affect me directly like has already been stated but if you look how nascar runs their operation this might be a good thing. at least for the next generation of racers they go to great length's to groom young drivers. there are four or five differant levels you can go through to get to nextal cup from a local track. they run 43 cars and at least 15 to 20 have a real shot at winning. what do we have now .i don't even watch ama superbike because either matt or ben is going to win. it's been a race for third for 4 or five years now . when was the last time someone else won ? i think it was neil in the rain .and if they can give the sport some real exposure and some parity it might become something like they have in Europe . and europeons might want to send their kids here instead of matt crying about how he got passed up by world superbike. i'd put my kid on the bike of tomorrow if it meant he had a good chance to go somewhere. i'm sure there's only one team that dosn't want change and it's not jordan suzuki.
Quote from: Ducmarc on June 19, 2008, 10:47:16 PM
after watching maladin and spies go through the corners at daytona i would have to think they are faster than any of the 600's .even my wife commented on the difference . as for roger is he a spokesperson or is he the one calling the shots? and did he not come up with the 600 supersport idea originally ?
I do believe that R.E. is a Principal of DMG. Given the penchant (or lack thereof) that he's demonstrated thus far for effective PR, my sense is that he probably has a very operational role and is the de facto spokesperson (though I think that they have assigned him a PR person judging by the latest press releases vs. some of his direct quotes over recent weeks).
"Everybody wants improvements, but nobody likes change." --DMG's Bill Syfan.
Give them some time. They will figure it out. And all of motorcycle racing will be better for it (I hope!).