I raced the updated CMP track this past weekend, and was seriously dismayed by the location of the Start-Finish line. The big problem with it from my perspective is that it's too close to the brake markers for Turn 1. This is really only a problem on the last lap, when you're sprinting to the finish line and not worrying at all about setting up for Turn #1, the S-F Line at CMP is so close to Turn 1 that you have to start with the brakes a little bit before you cross the line.
There is a small paved run-off area at the end of the straight, but planning to use that after the last lap really doesn't seem too safe, especially if multiple people in a pack who are in a sprint to the finish plan to use it simultaneously. One could argue that everyone has to do it (brake before the finish line on the last lap), so it's fair, but the problem is that some people will inevitably brake to make Turn 1 and others, knowing that, will be happy to use the paved runoff.
Did anyone else note the location of the line and think that it was an issue?
I'm considering contacting CMP to voice my concerns, but don't want to do so if the opinion isn't shared by others.
It was brought up during the riders meeting for about .5 sec's... IMO it was a horible place for it as it seemed it could of easily been moved to the painted line for the finish. But that is just MHO.
Maybe there are/were other reasons that is wasnt moved, but it seemed pretty obvious that it was a safety consern to a few riders. I observed it first hand at the end of the TC race. Ivan was right in front of me (after laping me AGAIN!) at the end of the race and had to use the run off area to get slowed down. For a split second I didnt think he was going to make the cornor untill I realized he was just going to use the paved run off area.
from what was said at the riders meeting, it sounded like the decision was made by CCS, not CMP. the race director indicated that we'd see how the s/f worked out after the first couple of races. at the end of the riders meeting my teammates and i even offered to move the scoring equipment.
personally, i rode the gas all the way in... of course, on a LW bike i wasn't going as fast as you guys on the middleweights and unlimiteds...
I was there this past weekend with my son (he's the racer) and I was pondering the logic behind that decision. I think maybe they were more concerned with reducing the starting speed entering turn 1 than with the sprint to the finish speed. Consider the fact that the fastest riders at the end of the race will be way up front and only have to contend with each other. If they move the start line further back,the entry speed on turn 1 might be an extreme hazard with some of the less experienced riders jockeying for position at a much higher speed. I think it was big picture decision. JMO
This was my first time there and that was one of the first things I noticed and thought it was odd. Wasn't an issue on the SV, it actually made for a good reference mark. Cross the line, wait a split second and then hit the brakes. I didn't pay any attention to the real brake markers. On the CBR it was a little different.
Quote from: 2old2fat2slow on April 17, 2008, 08:18:18 PM
I was there this past weekend with my son (he's the racer) and I was pondering the logic behind that decision. I think maybe they were more concerned with reducing the starting speed entering turn 1 than with the sprint to the finish speed. Consider the fact that the fastest riders at the end of the race will be way up front and only have to contend with each other. If they move the start line further back,the entry speed on turn 1 might be an extreme hazard with some of the less experienced riders jockeying for position at a much higher speed. I think it was big picture decision. JMO
you hit it on the head.. the big picture was reducing start/turn 1 speed to put EVERYONE in less trouble. In the past (as i understand it) turn 1 was a bowling ally as it is such a hard sharp turn and guys were sometimes getting to 4th gear.. lots of big crashes. The start/finish line being at the "3" marker was a problem that myself and some others recognised right away when it was announced in the riders meeting knowing full well that 2 or more riders full throttle to the line at the end of the race would in no way be able to stop when we were using the "5" marker for turn one as it is now.. but.. Art indicated that the turn 1 start was the main concern, and that they will likely have 2 timed lines.. the start we all saw..then perhaps a finish back further where it was or even further back. I for one was happy to know that the start line was moved up as that was something that made me safer for ALL SEVEN races i was in. Going full throttle to near the 3 mark was not fun in a couple finishes but it was not something i had to deal with 7 times.. For sure, it is something that needs fixed, but we had the lesser of 2 evils to deal with.
I was at the riders' mtg but for some reason missed hearing the discussion about the S/F. I too had considered that it's safer for the start, but it didn't seem to me as though moving it back, say 1-2 brake marker's length or so, would create too much of a problem for the start, but would greatly alleviate the finish sprint problem.
I had also considered the notion of separate lines for Start and Finish, which I think would solve the problem, but isn't there an issue with where the timing loop is currently buried? Wouldn't they have to add a new loop to another location while keeping the original loop for the Start timing?
yes, they could have added another timing loop but as Art indicated to me, everyone had already run practice and already had the riders meeting. They honestly were under the impression from watching practice that the S/F at the "3" would not be a problem. Adding another timing loop would have required more time to get everyone to practice it, another riders meeting to make sure everyone was aware of the changes.. etc. Worked out fine, and I be we see some changes for the better next time.
From a corner worker experienced at that turn. Though I didn't work there those days. I have seen some nasty crashes there. I don't recall much in the way of accidents this weekend at that turn. Perhaps as most of you said it was a safety concern. Before the start/finish was about 50 or 75 yards upstream.
On Sunday when I observed the 2 wave starts they were able to get both groups off quicker than last year because of moving it closer to t1. :thumb:
Ya it was especially hairy in the rain races. I had one time where the guy in front of me and I were drag racing to the finish line on the last lap for the win, and I was coming by him, but didnt want to get hurt or get him hurt, so I backed out of it at the old start finish, but he didnt know this and continued on the gas to the real S/F and barely got the bike stopped for the turn
I agree they should leave it where it is for the starts. :ahhh:
The finish is about who wants it bad enough if its that close 8) I went deep and went straight only once because it was a little close at the end of a race.
I would disagree that all went well. True, no Turn 1 crashes, but I ran off once, and I saw it happen several times with other riders. I also so people trying to make Turn 1 so hard that they went off the line then cross the line, which can't be safe either.
I think that adding a second timing loop for Finish and either shortenting the first or last lap accordingly would be the only way to manage Turn 1 speeds at the Start and to avoid a dangerous situation during the drag-race Finishes.
I know from Westhold that it's possible, so long as the two loops aren't too close together.
Quote from: kl3640 on April 18, 2008, 01:38:12 PM
I would disagree that all went well. True, no Turn 1 crashes, but I ran off once, and I saw it happen several times with other riders. I also so people trying to make Turn 1 so hard that they went off the line then cross the line, which can't be safe either.
I think that adding a second timing loop for Finish and either shortenting the first or last lap accordingly would be the only way to manage Turn 1 speeds at the Start and to avoid a dangerous situation during the drag-race Finishes.
I know from Westhold that it's possible, so long as the two loops aren't too close together.
It was told to me by someone else that they (ccs) wanted to do that last weekend, but when cmp built the new timing tower they removed the box and cable from farther down the track torward t14 that was used for just that purpose. Hopefully it will be remidied by next time we go there :thumb:
I voiced my concerns multiple times through out the weekend and it fell on def ears. It was a huge risk to take and they got lucky that there were no crashes.
I went off at the end of one of my races when there was someone I was passing just before the finish line.
I hope this is dealt with prior to the next event that is held there.
Yeah, I think it was a cabling issue. As in, there was no cable to be able to move it. That's what I heard at the riders meeting anyway.
I really don't see the starts being super hairy in turn one with the S/F line being moved back a little.
Why can't you have the finish line moved back and keep the starting grid where it was?
Doesn't sound like rocket science.
Quote from: xseal on April 21, 2008, 03:55:27 PM
Doesn't sound like rocket science.
Neither is reading the previous posts in the thread :)