Hello guys!
Monday the 3/10 I shattered my right clavical mid point and the doctor put in (on 3/14) a plate and 6 screws to put it back together.Tthere were a few large fragments present but the doc sutured those up. Doc said the plate can stay in for life unless the screws start to back out...
Anyways, recovery is going ok. I'm already back to work and driving too. Should be riding a street bike this weekend. Hope to be racing again in a few weeks.
My question is:
In terms of continuing with my racing career and of course potentially crashing again, is it unfavorable to crash with a plate present vs no plate present? For example, lets say I crash in the exact same manner (rare as it may be), would I do more or less damage to my clavicle with the plate present?
I mean, should I leave this plate in for life if I continue with an agressive racing career? Or should I have it removed during the off season?
I have a really good orthopedic surgeon, who is also an ironman finisher so he is an awesome athlete, but he is not familiar with repeating motorcycle sporting injuries so he cant answer these questions.
Would appreciate any and all advice from all of those with experience! :cheers:
Thanks,
Krishna
Lots of folks race post clavicle fracture. Rhiannon has one of each ;) She has no plates.
Every crash is different, as is every injury. You will need to defer to your docs advice regarding the plate issue, or seek a second opinion.
However, I could be wrong, as some of the members here have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. :biggrin:
Good luck and heal up quick!
In April of last year I shattered my wrist and hand. That included about a 1" piece of the radius, the scaphoid, trapezium, trapezoid, etc.
I asked the same exact question of my orthopaedist, who is of the nation's top motorsports injury orthopaedic surgeons. He also provided my follow-up care for the months after surgery.
Basically, as I understand it, once the plate is in and the screws are secure, the flesh is healed from the trauma of surgery, and the bone has mended around the securing plate such that all fracture lines are healed, it will be as strong or stronger than it was originally in that area. In fact, when they are lucky enough to be able to use a plate, the recovery is often much faster, often not even requiring a hard cast.
In my case the bones were shattered so bad that when he tried to put in the plate the screws just kept turning and turning, kind of like a wood screw in a piece of wood that's no good. So he used removable pins instead with a hard cast, and when I woke up the plate that I thought I would have wasn't there and instead I had a plaster cast and 3 straightened paper-clip looking pins sticking out of my wrist.
If he would have been able to use the plate then I would have only had a soft-case for a matter of weeks. As it turned out in my case I had the hard cast for 6 weeks. The additional disadvantage of not having the plate was that with the hard cast I couldn't use the hand/wrist area at all for those 6 weeks, and when they removed it I couldn't even move my wrist at all up or down. So that took another 8 weeks of physical therapy. Basically, I couldn't ride again until late Summer.
So the bottom line is that IF they can use the plate then your recovery will be faster and yes, the bone will be as strong as it was pre-break once the injury has healed (which is faster with the plate(s) than without).
what he said. A buddy of mine had this exact situation and his broke next to the plate the second time cause it was weaker.....same with one of my fractures....Good luck
Quote from: d-wire on March 20, 2008, 08:19:53 PM
what he said. A buddy of mine had this exact situation and his broke next to the plate the second time cause it was weaker.....same with one of my fractures....Good luck
That's a good example of the bone being stronger in the area of the plate than in the adjacent undamaged area. When I used to do carpentry, Elmer's used to claim that their wood glue would make a stronger joint than the surrounding wood itself - if that's true, then it's a good analogy to what the metal plates do for the damaged bone.
One more thing that I forgot to mention is that, depending on the amount and type of metal used, you may need to get one of those wallet cards that identifies that you have metal in your body in order to not be too hasseled when going through airport security, etc. I carried print-outs of my x-rays with me because otherwise they used to inspect my cast in airport security, using those little swabs that they then put in to the bomb-sniffing machines, etc. Sometimes when I would show them the x-rays they would skip that part.
They use a variety of alloys for different purposes (titanium, stainless steel, and others) - I'm not sure what they would use for a broken clavicle, but be sure to check, because if it's stainless steel then it has a high iron content and may have enough mass to set off metal detectors.
Yo zeroice,
I'll do my best and it will almost be a repeat to some extent in regards to prior posts but here it goes.
back in '95 I shattered my right clavical. 4 places in two inches with fragments too. All in the center of the clavical. I chose not to have a plate put in.
In April of 96 I was back racing MX with no issues. yes I was scared of landing on that area again and I did. No worries.
There was so much calcium built up it made the entire collar bone Very strong.
The only worry i had was it would break on either side of the "mound" of calcium that was now there.
Crashed very hard a few more times and it didn't break. Cased a couple jumps and high-sided another.
I re-separated my right shoulder and fractured my right scapula but I never broke the right clavical again.
I've had more than enough crashes on that shoulder since then and still no worries. Not that I'm saying it will be the same for you but if you go with proper diet and exercise I'd be willing to bet on a safe return to racing for you.
yo, thanks for advice y'all!
Plate was already installed.
It hasnt been a week since surgery and I already rode a street bike today! Woohoo!
I guess it will be stronger than before and if anything, I'll break other stuff first.
go here for my xrays! http://picasaweb.google.com/crotch.rocket.roadracer/MyBrokenClavicle (http://picasaweb.google.com/crotch.rocket.roadracer/MyBrokenClavicle) in case you're curious
:cheers:
Well... I've got titanium plates on both mine :biggrin:
Two year ago broke my left clavicle, it was severely displaced and I ended up getting it plated. Healed great, no issues.
At the end of this last year I shattered my right clavicle, and got it plated with-in a week. Again healed great with no issues.
My Otho who who has done "a few" plates for motorcycle guys (mostly MX) has recommended that I have both of mine removed if I am to continue racing. He told me that if I were to cash in a way that puts enough pressure on the clavicle to break it, that with the plate(s) still in place the chances of a axial break (parallel to the plate) or breaking off one of the ends is very high and those type of breaks are much harder to repair and require longer to fully recover from. By removing the plates it significantly reduces the chance of either of those types of breaks, and if it breaks, again, without the plates it would most likely break next to the previous break and would be easier to repair.
So it's looking like I'll be having both plates removed towards the end of the year, but I haven't decided for sure yet.
Quote from: zeroice on March 20, 2008, 05:18:50 PM
Doc said the plate can stay in for life unless the screws start to back out...
Hope he used some loctite on those screws :) I think super Dave always recommends the bone healer for a speedy recover. good luck healin' bro.
Quote from: ccs207 on March 21, 2008, 02:43:52 PM
Hope he used some loctite on those screws :) I think super Dave always recommends the bone healer for a speedy recover. good luck healin' bro.
http://www.seacoastvitamins.com/product_info.php?products_id=803
Here's the link - Dave has always talked highly about the stuff... I had recently just crashed and broke some ribs and a finger down at the Daytona 200 - So I ordered the stuff and started taking it about a week ago.... Both the finger and the ribs are already almost 100%... So now I can say it works :)
previous linky was bad, here is the new linky: http://picasaweb.google.com/crotch.rocket.roadracer/MyBrokenClavicleTheBikeIDestroyed (http://picasaweb.google.com/crotch.rocket.roadracer/MyBrokenClavicleTheBikeIDestroyed)
Jason, sorry to hear you broke both. So your doctor thinks the plates should be removed. The potential situation that your doctor described is what I fear. Still not sure what to do tho... I have till the end of the season to decide I guess...
So far the recover process is going very well. Still stiff and still need to take the pain pills regularly tho. I cant imagine not getting it plated. Even if it wasn't seperated as far as it was. I mean. I would have to be perfectly still for it to mend. Probably end up shooting myself.
Scotty, that stuff is cheap. I eat a pretty good whole food diet and juice just about every fresh vegetable/fruit I can get my hands on. But I'm sure in this situation it wont hurt to supplement it with some good ol' synthetic nutritional cocktails! I got it on order!
Jason748, did your doctor discuss surgical risk vs. the risk of leaving the plates in? I'm wondering because a lot of what I had to recover from with my wrist surgery was the 3 inch incision and the damage it did to muscle tissue and ligaments; so other than the atrophy caused by being in a cast for 6 weeks, that was the other reason that I needed so much physical therapy.
Kl3640:
My doc said there was hardly any muscle tissue around the clavicle area where the plate is installed so recovery is very short. I believe it will be the same for removing it. I mean, it has been 8 days for me and I'm moving around and about. It hurts but not out of control. The 6th day after surgery I was even able to lift my hand above my head and hold it for a minute. I just wonder if the pain is worth having it removed.
Quote from: Jason748 on March 21, 2008, 12:34:39 AM
Well... I've got titanium plates on both mine :biggrin:
Two year ago broke my left clavicle, it was severely displaced and I ended up getting it plated. Healed great, no issues.
At the end of this last year I shattered my right clavicle, and got it plated with-in a week. Again healed great with no issues.
My Otho who who has done "a few" plates for motorcycle guys (mostly MX) has recommended that I have both of mine removed if I am to continue racing. He told me that if I were to cash in a way that puts enough pressure on the clavicle to break it, that with the plate(s) still in place the chances of a axial break (parallel to the plate) or breaking off one of the ends is very high and those type of breaks are much harder to repair and require longer to fully recover from. By removing the plates it significantly reduces the chance of either of those types of breaks, and if it breaks, again, without the plates it would most likely break next to the previous break and would be easier to repair.
So it's looking like I'll be having both plates removed towards the end of the year, but I haven't decided for sure yet.
I am in the same boat. My ortho said pretty much the same thing. I will schedule to remove. He said the recovery time is not nearly as long becasue after you have it removed all you have is where the screws were to heal up. Also if you smoke, STOP! It kills the bone cells that are trying to heal you bone.
Clavicle in four pieces.... I got a plate and nine screws. I so far haven't reinjured the area, but have fallen on it. My understanding is that is would be possible to break on either side of the plate end, but if removed it could break anywhere. I'll take my chances and leave it alone. Besides those screws were like $450/piece. I realize I'll get them to keep if they remove them, but I'd probably just loose them. I can't afford to loose any more screws.
Quote from: kl3640 on March 22, 2008, 08:13:26 PM
Jason748, did your doctor discuss surgical risk vs. the risk of leaving the plates in? I'm wondering because a lot of what I had to recover from with my wrist surgery was the 3 inch incision and the damage it did to muscle tissue and ligaments; so other than the atrophy caused by being in a cast for 6 weeks, that was the other reason that I needed so much physical therapy.
Yes, the Dr and I had a very long conversation about the risks of both ways. As Kris mentioned there is (by comparison with a wrist/hand) very little muscle around the clavicle area and the risk of atrophy/ ligament damage/ infection is very small. Also I have been told that the recover time for having the plates removed is very short. I tend to believe this because with both my operations to install the plates I had a full range of movement and could use my arms within a week, but was limited to little to no weight for the first 4-6 weeks. No real Physical therapy was required, but it did take about 10-12 weeks before I was at 100% strength again, but I was at 90% real quick it was just that last 10%.
But it is surgery and there are always risks...
I can also say that the bone pills Dave recommends work! I took them both times and my doctor was surprised at the rapid re-growth of the bone.
There is still an underlying issue here that I feel no one has mad a significant point about. As individual, you make a decsion to race, and indoing so you assume the risks inherrent to the sport. Now, i hate to put everything into perpective, but just from my own experiences, you have to ask yourself if the risks are worth it.
We are all incredibly driven individuals who love the sport and can't see ourselves not being on the track, however, it always must be seen as a dangerous activity. I can't speak much for the medical complications of reinjuring parts of your body that are held together with plates, but what I can speak of is just plain reinjuring your body. After any serious injury (Break, fracture, ect) the bones, muscle, tissue never fully recover, and to reinjure it you risk permannant and in some cases catastrophic damage. I've seen it with my father who damaged his knees road racing and then reinjured them. Both knees needed to be replaced later on in his life.
I think that after any injury you have to analyze whether the risks to your body are worth it. For most of us, we heal, rehabilitate, and get back on the bike, never entertaining the possibility of another get off. (I mean, who would want to think about it anyway, we all know it happens sooner or later.)
I know all this was a little disjointed, but I just wanted to give my two cents. Its one thing to be chasing the superbike championship and its another to be chasing a $5 plaque. In any case, I wish you good luck and good health.
be careful about moving it too much too soon. The plate gives you a false sense of security. When I broke mine 2 yrs ago I had it plated and my Ortho didn't want me moving it for 4 -6 wks because even though the plate is holding everything in place it takes that long for the bones to actually mend . I did race 4 wks after my surgery agsinst the orders of my doctor though- Nobody said racers were smart. I was wondering the same thing as you about having it removed but my doctor recomended against it unless I have problems with it.
Sorry to hear about the injury Krishna, sounds like your doing well though. It's an interesting decision you bring up, ultimately up to each individual. I hope by the time I'm 45 or 50 and having to to "pay" for the wild and crazy days, that the nano-technology will be up to speed and a new shoulder, knee, lung, whatever, will be as easy as a new sub-frame. Here's to wishful thinking! :cheers: See you at CMP! ???