I am trying to get a great start point for a non computor using buddy - he has a penske shock and axxiom AK 20 forks- lOOKING FOR DISTANCE OF FORKTUBES ABOVE UPPER TRIPLE CLAMP, EYE TO EYE OF REAR SHOCK dimension- from the faster folks here that remember 06---TIA cat
start out with the rear shock stock length
and the forks if the bike sits higher with the new internals then stock lower it to stock which may be only 2mm (+-)
or set them stock if you arent sure and go from there.
thats seems to be what i have found worked
We shortened the aftermarket shock from the stock length and ran the tubes below the top of the upper triple.
Hay Gary thanks- and DAVE , I am going to find out if his shop changed the length - I will enjoy having your advice because although he is a good club racer, his setup "suspension install" was done by someone who did only that --- install /but didn' seem to work with ride height- called him just know to ask "innovative motorcycles" if they changed the shock length- back soon, Thanks to you both! Cat
I will say that it was a general consensus that the rear shock was to long. Everyone that went fast on an 06R6 that I know of had a Graves rear shock lowering clevis and had the forks pushed waaay into the triples!!!! And I'm talking with the longer 25mm Ohlins kit. Otherwise I couldn't get any feel out of the front end - problem is the bike lacks trail stock... Yamaha supposedly addressed this issue for 08.
Quote from: SCOTTY727 on February 08, 2008, 10:31:28 AM
I will say that it was a general consensus that the rear shock was to long. Everyone that went fast on an 06R6 that I know of had a Graves rear shock lowering clevis and had the forks pushed waaay into the triples!!!! And I'm talking with the longer 25mm Ohlins kit. Otherwise I couldn't get any feel out of the front end - problem is the bike lacks trail stock... Yamaha supposedly addressed this issue for 08.
Scott,
I just checked the trail numbers on the Yamaha site, and both the 2007 and the 2008 have 3.8
I also looked for the Graves lowering clevis on their website and couldn't find it.
Did Yamaha address the problem in 2007? I have an 07 and would definitely like to find out more on this.
They may have changed it for 07 - not sure because I rode Suzuki's in 07. But I can say that Mike Fitzgerald(Thermous Man) has said that after testing with the 08's - Yamaha has made huge improvements since 07. And that the bike works much better.
As far as the rear shock clevis goes - we had a hard time getting one - a few guys tried getting them from Graves at some of the AMA rounds and Graves said they didn't have any. Not sure if it cause we talked to them at the right time or cause my mechanic knew people - but we did have one on the bike.
Quote from: CATMAN on January 30, 2008, 04:28:46 PM
I am trying to get a great start point for a non computor using buddy - he has a penske shock and axxiom AK 20 forks- lOOKING FOR DISTANCE OF FORKTUBES ABOVE UPPER TRIPLE CLAMP, EYE TO EYE OF REAR SHOCK dimension- from the faster folks here that remember 06---TIA cat
Don't forget your variables...
180 rear vs 190 rear. Different heights and shapes of the manufacturer tires. You really need a relationship with someone that has some real world experience with the geometry to come to grips with it.
Scotty and I use 4&6. Others use some other people.
I changed my rear spring rate a lot from where I started to get it right for me too.
Not to muddy up the waters (or hijack a thread!) but do any of you run slicks AND dots on the same bike?
I wanted to run both this year and wanted to know how dumb of an idea it is. Big difference between 190 dot and 195 slick??? Too much work to set suspension each time I swap??? Or could I just swap and ride???
3 of the 4 classes I'm running I can use slicks, I really wanted to try to take advantage of that.
Swap and ride? Depends on the tire. Michelin 1800's were like the old S2/H2/M2. So, you could swap those like two hot, young...ok, I'll stop there...LOL!
If you have the bike very well set up one way, a tire change may change the geometry. Might not be upright, but it could be leaned over. You've really got to look at those things closely. Does that make sense?
Sometimes, making those changes can improve the bike because it changes the geometry in a way that you weren't thinking about in your original process. Just like how changing gearing sometimes makes a bike handle better in some areas over the previous gearing as it changes the relationship of the geometry, swingarm pivot location, etc.
I've recently made differant length dog bones for SV's
Same idea?
These clevis parts you speak of ,can some one post photos ?
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gravesport.com%2FProducts%2Fimages%2FSP4004A.jpg&hash=54549c354e0ed09760584fdd67a40db227a60c1b)
That,s not to bad (great photo some of you guys can make this computator thing real go)
looks like alot of metal removal and the metric threads are no fun on a standard lathe .
I 'll be glad to copy and modify the new piece to your liking .I will need a sample .
Please contact me at resurrection03@hotmail com
I don't have any phoyos of the clevis. Basically the Graves unit was just a compact shortened version on the stock piece. If I recall correctly it was 10mm shorter - but it also came with shims so that you could raise the rear back to stock if you wanted. Raising the front of the bike helped - but once you raised the front to a certin point you started loosing feel. Personaly myself I can't get enough trail - I will run as much as I can reasonably get out of a bike. It all comes down to feel.
Would lowering the rear make the bike turn slower?
My 07 R6 is already a bit on the slow side. It's completely stock except the bodywork and tires.
It makes the bike a bit slower to change direction... But the trade off is well worth it in my book....Having a stable chassis that has more feel is more important to me then having a quick turning bike.....You can always change your riding to make the bike turn - but you can't change yourself to make the bike have more feel... So I suggest building up a bit more muscle and using your legs a bit more to help turn the bike..... I wasn't able to see the pic that tstruyk had posted earlier because I was using my phone to post on the site - but now that I am looking at the pic it is exactly what we ran....
The Graves clevis effectively made the shock length 3.5mm shorter. There's not a lot of room there.
Turn slower? That R6 turned very fast. Again, we've visited the trail issues. That's what it improves. Talk to your chassis guys to get a better handle on things.
Dave's right - the bike turned to fast for my liking - it turned in so fast that it was hard to to get the bike to hold a proper line. So for me the Graves clevis helped tons in that respect. But Dave is right - find someone that you can trust and have them set the bike up with you. It will save you headach and money in the long run.
clevis and spring rate where critical in my set up. once i get her back together i'll be tucking the tubes in the trips a bit... its was WORLDS better but still not quite "right" when she let go...
Quote from: SCOTTY727 on February 15, 2008, 12:13:33 PM
Dave's right - the bike turned to fast for my liking - it turned in so fast that it was hard to to get the bike to hold a proper line. So for me the Graves clevis helped tons in that respect. But Dave is right - find someone that you can trust and have them set the bike up with you. It will save you headach and money in the long run.
Did the clevis also give you better feedback? I'm finding that I lowsided twice last year and seem to be getting little warning that it's going to happen (granted once it was in the rain).
Yes. Add's trail to the chassis. Very basic set up parameter.
Dave scotty and all- This helps- I am going to get this guys bike to ken@superbikeitalia- when he is at Pocono Raceway with STT this summer- I used him to get my suspension back in order last year and K3 rode it exclaiming it feels great- This buddy of mine is Paul HarrisWera EXpert lifetime # 39 NE - an ole expert that just rode the pants off what he was riding over the years, no doubt he can ride but you all have all that and studied what works earlier on in yourcareers- He makes me feel like a fast learner,he got me started 6 yrs ago and I am steering him to better handling- I am hopefully back this season part time- having third and hopefully final shoulder repair/ (replacement this time) in a week or so- hope to be exercised enough for first ccs round at summit point in early May! almost 3 seasons OFF Now I am hungry! AGAIN You guys helped here- Scotty - I hope you frighten the ole hats at the Daytona 200 again this year- I cant go but remember your stellar 1st time there last year,will never forget your talent...cat
Quote from: CATMAN on February 17, 2008, 09:52:02 PM
Dave scotty and all- This helps- I am going to get this guys bike to ken@superbikeitalia- when he is at Pocono Raceway with STT this summer- I used him to get my suspension back in order last year and K3 rode it exclaiming it feels great- This buddy of mine is Paul HarrisWera EXpert lifetime # 39 NE - an ole expert that just rode the pants off what he was riding over the years, no doubt he can ride but you all have all that and studied what works earlier on in yourcareers- He makes me feel like a fast learner,he got me started 6 yrs ago and I am steering him to better handling- I am hopefully back this season part time- having third and hopefully final shoulder repair/ (replacement this time) in a week or so- hope to be exercised enough for first ccs round at summit point in early May! almost 3 seasons OFF Now I am hungry! AGAIN You guys helped here- Scotty - I hope you frighten the ole hats at the Daytona 200 again this year- I cant go but remember your stellar 1st time there last year,will never forget your talent...cat
Glad to help - and thanks a ton for the words of encouragement.... Things are kinda up in the air for the 200(as much as I would like to race the 200 again) - I have a deal in the works and I will know tomorrow if i'm going to be racing it..... Regardless of that deal - I will still be racing the Moto-St stuff for SpeedWerks... Gotta repeat the 8hr win - with a win in the 3 hr :) I will be running some AMA(Road America,Mid-Ohio and Road Atlanta) this season with 4&6 - not the whole season tho.... And there is a good chance that you will see me running some SuperBike at the AMA's - That's right - I got a license to run Superbike this season.... Other then that I will mostly be competing for Kawaskai money this year with 4&6 Racing again - Midwest and East coast stuff..... I'll try to keep you updated....
I mostly wish you a safe season(like everybody) and think you're talent is well backed by your friendly and supportive parents- We got some nice pics with them at Daytona that we have saved! Whatever your season entails Good Luck- AMA#24 - KOOOOL!
Quote from: SCOTTY727 on February 08, 2008, 10:31:28 AM
I will say that it was a general consensus that the rear shock was to long. Everyone that went fast on an 06R6 that I know of had a Graves rear shock lowering clevis and had the forks pushed waaay into the triples!!!! And I'm talking with the longer 25mm Ohlins kit. Otherwise I couldn't get any feel out of the front end - problem is the bike lacks trail stock... Yamaha supposedly addressed this issue for 08.
Don't we know each other?
I'm pretty sure I was riding an 06R6....... I guess I'm just a slow old fart.
Tested the Graves clevis but did not end up sticking with it. At most tracks the length of my shock was slightly longer that stock.
I gotta say - trying to help out my buddy is paying off nicely! You guys are teaching some vital and interesting setup facts while applying it all to actual on track "feel" of the bike- it is drawing many views because people wanna know! THANKS Guys- I am gaining some useful info-I likely speak for others is MY bet!
Quote from: Team_Serpent on February 21, 2008, 11:21:56 AM
I'm pretty sure I was riding an 06R6....... I guess I'm just a slow old fart.
Tested the Graves clevis but did not end up sticking with it. At most tracks the length of my shock was slightly longer that stock.
I too must be one of the slow guys... I didnt use the clevis and my shock was set at stock length with the fork caps flush (+10 mm extentions)
EVERYTHING on my 06 is stock. :( I can't seem to tell what the front end is doing though. Any word of advice for that?
Quote from: sobottka on February 21, 2008, 05:16:51 PM
I too must be one of the slow guys... I didnt use the clevis and my shock was set at stock length with the fork caps flush (+10 mm extentions)
Maybe he doesn't know you :biggrin:
Quote from: Team_Serpent on February 21, 2008, 11:21:56 AM
Don't we know each other?
I'm pretty sure I was riding an 06R6....... I guess I'm just a slow old fart.
Tested the Graves clevis but did not end up sticking with it. At most tracks the length of my shock was slightly longer that stock.
I think we may have met a couple times :)
But I am going to say that I know this to be true - A setup that works for one persons riding style - isn't necessarily going to work for someone else..... I guess I should have posted that earlier....
The way I ride a bike is different then Jason - I know that from riding with him and talking with him and his dad.... The clevis worked for me - but then again I can never get enough trail out of the bike.....
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi194.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz200%2Freserrection%2F0219081845b.jpg&hash=df71df5c93e6460ca9cd94e8eb291e2d7803ef19)
I made this gadget for measuring eye to eye very affordable
Quote from: CATMAN on February 21, 2008, 08:09:43 AM
I mostly wish you a safe season(like everybody) and think you're talent is well backed by your friendly and supportive parents- We got some nice pics with them at Daytona that we have saved! Whatever your season entails Good Luck- AMA#24 - KOOOOL!
Looks like the 200 is a go for me - as long as all the parts show up tomorrow.... I still don't understand why Daytona is so early in the year tho - trying to get all the parts for new bikes is not an easy task.....Not to mention trying to get the bikes together..... Luckily I have a good crew of guys helping to make it happen.....
Quote from: r1owner on February 21, 2008, 06:34:09 PM
EVERYTHING on my 06 is stock. :( I can't seem to tell what the front end is doing though. Any word of advice for that?
As I posted earlier - I would suggest a lack of trail.... I know that I sound like a broken record..... Is your front end bone stock also??? The right springs might get you what you are looking for...
Are guys thread jacking? lets set some shocks .
Quote from: SCOTTY727 on February 22, 2008, 01:07:41 AM
As I posted earlier - I would suggest a lack of trail.... I know that I sound like a broken record..... Is your front end bone stock also??? The right springs might get you what you are looking for...
Yep everything is stock. I already ordered the clevis to give it a try.
Quote from: SCOTTY727 on February 22, 2008, 01:00:46 AM
But I am going to say that I know this to be true - A setup that works for one persons riding style - isn't necessarily going to work for someone else
Agreed
Quote from: SCOTTY727 on February 22, 2008, 01:00:46 AM- but then again I can never get enough trail out of the bike.....
Hey, maybe you should race a chopper :biggrin:
Quote from: SCOTTY727 on February 22, 2008, 01:05:09 AM
Looks like the 200 is a go for me - as long as all the parts show up tomorrow.... I still don't understand why Daytona is so early in the year tho - trying to get all the parts for new bikes is not an easy task.....Not to mention trying to get the bikes together..... Luckily I have a good crew of guys helping to make it happen.....
WOW great to hear scotty- DAYM! I know you got the riding part down , the team is surely a good marriage,SO GOOD that all I can say ,except to answer your question (I still don't understand why Daytona is so early in the year tho ) IS HAPPY LEAP YEAR-(be sure to take care of the team-bring them some goods again at the end of the race!