Motorcycle Racing Forum

Racing Discussion => Racing Discussion => Topic started by: Devastator on February 24, 2003, 07:25:39 AM

Title: Trail Braking
Post by: Devastator on February 24, 2003, 07:25:39 AM
What does the term trail braking mean, and what are it's advantages/disadvantages?  Thank you.
Title: Re: Trail Braking
Post by: sdiver68 on February 24, 2003, 07:34:13 AM
Geez, I've seen this thread somewhere before...like in the Club Racer and General section of gixxer.com.

To paraphrase, Trail braking is still being on the brakes after you initiate a turn, potentially all the way up to the apex.  As opposed to having all of your braking done in a straight line, then intiating the turn.

Advantage being you are using more of the track to decelerate....particularly in a decreasing radius corner where if you had all your braking done at the beginning you would be going "too" slow through the first part of it.  Also, being on your brakes can potentially give you better bike geometry with sharper turn in.  Trail braking with the rear can also turn the bikew sharper...sometimes referred to as "backing it in".

Disadvantage is its can be hard to learn, and overly aggressive or incorrect trail braking can land you on your head pretty easily.



Title: Re: Trail Braking
Post by: Jeff on February 24, 2003, 07:37:16 AM
In the words of Super-Dave Rosno, "braking to the apex will provide you the fastest way around the track. In order to do perfect this, you need a big set of balls and a good set of leathers"

Really it's not that hard, you just have to understand your bike and suspension, and know what the "feeling" being given means.

You'd be surprised at how hard you can be on the brakes while leaned over...
Title: Re: Trail Braking
Post by: sportbikepete on February 24, 2003, 08:34:01 AM
Trail braking in the "hog pen" at VIR is an interesting trip.  ;D
Title: Re: Trail Braking
Post by: r6_philly on February 24, 2003, 09:00:20 AM
QuoteTrail braking in the "hog pen" at VIR is an interesting trip.  ;D

But apparently that is the only way to go fast onto the front straight. I thought I could go faster by not braking, but the front rides too high and I end up running wide. so I start to brake almost at the bottom of the hill and just keep the brake 1/4 way almost to the apex then gas it...
Title: Re: Trail Braking
Post by: chris_chops on February 24, 2003, 12:37:04 PM
QuoteIn the words of Super-Dave Rosno, "braking to the apex will provide you the fastest way around the track. In order to do perfect this, you need a big set of balls and a good set of leathers"

Really it's not that hard, you just have to understand your bike and suspension, and know what the "feeling" being given means.

You'd be surprised at how hard you can be on the brakes while leaned over...
After years of highsiding my way out of corners, I decided to work more on my corner enttries this year.  Trailing the brake does provide high entry speeds and keeps the front "nosed in".  But as Jeff was saying, it requires a lot of feel too keep from tucking the front.  Hence, the good set of leathers.      
     Sometimese the bars will give you an indication that the front is tucking cuz you feel the front tying up while the front tire starts to lose grip.  The bars tug on your arms a little.  If you are lucky enough not to be on the ground already, this tug is a warning to your fingers to get the heck off the front brake immediatly, as in RIGHT NOW.  Sometimes you never get a warning and you are sliding on the tarmac before you know it with no way to have saved it other than not have trail braked so much.  Having the feel comes with experience, talent, etc..  
     Many pros have specifically told me not to play around with too much trail braking cuz it causes so many front end washes/crashes.  Instead, they told me to set the bike up better so it "noses in" on its own.  Easier said than done. My two cents.

Matt
Title: Re: Trail Braking
Post by: TZDeSioux on February 24, 2003, 01:10:52 PM
you can trailbrake all day long on a TZ250 :)
Title: Re: Trail Braking
Post by: r6_philly on February 24, 2003, 02:08:42 PM
QuoteAfter years of highsiding my way out of corners, I decided to work more on my corner enttries this year.  Trailing the brake does provide high entry speeds and keeps the front "nosed in".  But as Jeff was saying, it requires a lot of feel too keep from tucking the front.  Hence, the good set of leathers.      
     Sometimese the bars will give you an indication that the front is tucking cuz you feel the front tying up while the front tire starts to lose grip.  The bars tug on your arms a little.  If you are lucky enough not to be on the ground already, this tug is a warning to your fingers to get the heck off the front brake immediatly, as in RIGHT NOW.  Sometimes you never get a warning and you are sliding on the tarmac before you know it with no way to have saved it other than not have trail braked so much.  Having the feel comes with experience, talent, etc..  
     Many pros have specifically told me not to play around with too much trail braking cuz it causes so many front end washes/crashes.  Instead, they told me to set the bike up better so it "noses in" on its own.  Easier said than done. My two cents.

Matt


I found the key is to progressively back off the brake. That means having a good feel onthe front end, and have a gental hand to control the brake pressure being applied. I say back off consistently while not totally let off the brakes. I have tucked a few times without crashing, because the brake pressure is already very low when I tucked, when I back off the brake, the bike righted itself rather than some violent rebound that would have tossed me or get off of track. Then you know not to brake that far that much the next time around.
Title: Re: Trail Braking
Post by: Super Dave on February 24, 2003, 04:38:22 PM
I'm being quoted now...LOL!

Lots of practice and a good set of leathers...  That's what I said :)

I won't go into detail here, because I have a school for the rest.  Go watch a pro race.  Watch what they do.  Might still be using the rear brake, but it is a similar effect.
Title: Re: Trail Braking
Post by: Jeff on February 25, 2003, 05:24:30 AM
If you start small, it's not that hard.  Don't charge at the corner, just try braking a bit longer.  And when you let off the brake, let off very smoothly and slowly.  You'll get a very fluid response from the bike.

Build up the speed factor from there once you know how the bike feels and reacts to braking and releasing the brake while turning.

And hey!  I almost had it right Dave ;-)
Title: Re: Trail Braking
Post by: Super Dave on February 25, 2003, 05:55:38 AM
No, you did well, Jeff...  And considering fantastic weather we had during your school... :o