Congradulations to Travis Marshall for his win in AMATUER supertwins. The fact that he was issued a EXPERT CMRA licence for 07 should not bother the 2nd,3rd,and 4th place finishers. I guess anyone that is bumped to expert in any other sanctioning body can just tell the CCS they are AMATUERS and their word is good.
Nice job, Kevin Dennis, CMRA tech inspector
I'll bet there's more to the story than just that.
:pop:
Well, I was the third place finisher and this doesn't make me too happy. Granted, I felt I out rode 1st and 2nd place finishers but they had less weight to haul around. I'm an old fat guy. I was catching them big time in the infield and chicane but they would pull away on the banking. Dang youngsters!
Quote from: n2racing6 on October 26, 2007, 12:42:05 AM
Congradulations to Travis Marshall for his win in AMATUER supertwins. The fact that he was issued a EXPERT CMRA licence for 07 should not bother the 2nd,3rd,and 4th place finishers. I guess anyone that is bumped to expert in any other sanctioning body can just tell the CCS they are AMATUERS and their word is good.
Nice job, Kevin Dennis, CMRA tech inspector
So, did you give that information, or whatever you have, to Kevin Elliott or another CCS official?
Wow, and it took me about 20 seconds to find him in the expert results for CMRA Supertwins in the February CMRA event...
http://www.cmraracing.com/Results/2007/Event1/sprint/1secls.html
Quote from: gpz11 on October 26, 2007, 09:39:10 AM
Dang youngsters!
Well, at this point, it really looks like someone was flat cheating. The CCS rules are pretty clear about expert riders riding as experts in CCS.
Pretty lame, really.
Well, I can try to give Kevin a call later today. That's just wrong.
More...
http://www.cmraracing.com/Results/2007/Event9/n1/349.html
Didn't do many races, but he's still an expert.
Might be easier just to email Kevin and Eric this thread. It's pretty cut and dried.
I tried to look and find his name in results someplace to see if he might have gotten down graded to an amateur at some point, but I didn't find that. I didn't dig too deep. I'll leave that for you guys.
Shitty - Sorry Chuck - That's that's just plane stupid
That just sucks. I got screwed by a similar a-hole at Summit earlier this season. I can't wait to get my ass handed to me by the experts next season, I just don't understand why people think it's cool to sandbag.
Ok, there's more to this...
Chuck, some people are looking into it.
Quote from: Super Dave on October 26, 2007, 09:58:27 AM
if he might have gotten down graded to an amateur...
This might be relevant.
n2racing6, what's your take? Does make for an interesting first post from you.
Well, I just sent an email to Kevin, Eric, and you Dave.
Roger that.
thats pretty low if its true
wow.. that sucks. congrats chuck. looks like you mite be second like we thought! hope you made it home safe and sound.
Well from reading some stuff over at CMRA's forum, seems like they require you to run 2 weekends as an expert if you petition not to be bumped up to expert. Looks like Marshall petitioned not to go expert after being put on the bump list but still had to run 2 weekends as an expert before being placed back in amateur as per CMRA rule (fucked up huh?).
And for those who were wondering, Kevin Dennis (n2racing6) is NOT my alter ego.
I guess every BBS has to have a professional shit disturber! :cheers:
(some of us just don't need to make stuff up to stir the pot!) :thumb:
Yeah, it's looking more and more that someone is trying to stir up trouble. I'll wait till Kevin and Eric respond to me. If they say he's legal, then so be it.
What you did was still very good...for a big guy...LOL!
The checks for amateur national championships must be pretty huge these days.
Well, the Visa bills are still good size. :banghead:
Quote from: JBraun on October 26, 2007, 02:42:41 PM
The checks for amateur national championships must be pretty huge these days.
Quote from: gpz11 on October 26, 2007, 09:39:10 AM
Well, I was the third place finisher and this doesn't make me too happy. Granted, I felt I out rode 1st and 2nd place finishers but they had less weight to haul around. I'm an old fat guy. I was catching them big time in the infield and chicane but they would pull away on the banking. Dang youngsters!
Congrats on your ROC podium Chuck!
(Either 2nd or 3rd!) :-)
I'm the 2nd place finisher in superturds, I'm far from young ( 35 ), 200 lbs. on a 8 yr. old 450 lb. 98.7 hp ( per Factory Pro dyno ) TL1000R. I don't think I had much of an advantage. LOL... This is my first year racing, with no trackdays prior, only Ed Bargy in 2001. But anyway, Travis Marshall has a pretty sweet 998R that's built, I think he said it has about 144 hp at the rear. Ya'll ought to check out his web site. Just google Travis Marshall and check out his photos ( White plates ). Congrats to all that attended Daytona. Maybe they will bump up our finishes Chuck.
http://www.travismarshallmotorsports.com/index.html I found his website.
Quote from: Super Dave on October 27, 2007, 08:46:03 AM
http://www.travismarshallmotorsports.com/index.html I found his website.
I remember this guy. He started racing about the same time I did, and he already had a lot of trackdays under his belt. At this point, it is ridiculous that he would be anything but an expert.
As far as the guys that got 2nd and 3rd, I don't care what CCS decides, you are the rightful 1st and 2nd place finishers-Congrats and good job!
CMRA has a strange review process and how they advanced riders to expert that is unique only to them as far as I can tell. They advanced riders then came back just prior to start of season and said they were going to advance more riders to balance the grids (I think that was reason I heard on their BBS re 07 advancements), Travis fell in this group, then required them to run expert races before determining the rider petition to remain Amateur. That is not CCS procedure as we review existing history prior to season starting so a rider can compete within the appropriate experience level, experts know a rider is up to par and Am are not competing against riders with expert talent/experience. As fully 1/4 of his races with CCS would have occurred prior to CMRA making a decision we had to make one prior to the season starting. When reviewing his finishes for 2006 it was apparent that he was an Amateur class rider with regard to his finishes and expeirence with CCS and with CMRA.
Well, there you go, the results stand.
Quote from: gpz11 on October 29, 2007, 10:43:41 AM
Well, there you go, the results stand.
You're STILL my hero, Chuck! :biggrin:
Can I have ur autograph Chuck? Actually it's for my nephew :)
Kevin Dennis (n2racing6) from CMRA is online right now..... care to add a rebuttal Kevin? :spank:
OOps, he's gone. Guess he didn't have any other words of wisdom!
Thanks, Eric!
:cheers:
Quote from: Burt Munro on October 29, 2007, 01:18:38 PM
Kevin Dennis (n2racing6) from CMRA is online right now..... care to add a rebuttal Kevin? :spank:
OOps, he's gone. Guess he didn't have any other words of wisdom!
"Hello...My name is Rick and I am a professional shit disturber!" :biggrin:
Mark, don't make me repost the photo of the 'Ambiguously Gay Duo.'
Quote from: Burt Munro on October 29, 2007, 02:01:42 PM
Mark, don't make me repost the photo of the 'Ambiguously Gay Duo.'
Sorry sir......one of my students got on my computer and posted that!!!
( bad students !!! bad students!!!)
gonna be hard to not get bumped now. novice championships are cool.
Quote from: Eric Kelcher on October 29, 2007, 10:32:51 AM
They advanced riders then came back just prior to start of season and said they were going to advance more riders to balance the grids (I think that was reason I heard on their BBS re 07 advancements), Travis fell in this group, then required them to run expert races before determining the rider petition to remain Amateur. That is not CCS procedure as we review existing history prior to season starting so a rider can compete within the appropriate experience level, experts know a rider is up to par and Am are not competing against riders with expert talent/experience. As fully 1/4 of his races with CCS would have occurred prior to CMRA making a decision we had to make one prior to the season starting. When reviewing his finishes for 2006 it was apparent that he was an Amateur class rider with regard to his finishes and expeirence with CCS and with CMRA.
The announcement from the CMRA promoting Marshall to expert was made on 11/16/2007. CCS was 1/4 of the way through its 2007 race schedule in mid-November 2006?
http://bbs.125gp.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=90712#Post90712
Quote from: Racer997 on October 30, 2007, 09:38:00 AM
The announcement from the CMRA promoting Marshall to expert was made on 11/16/2007. CCS was 1/4 of the way through its 2007 race schedule in mid-November 2006?
http://bbs.125gp.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=90712#Post90712
As fully 1/4 of his races with CCS would have occurred prior to CMRA making a decision we had to make one prior to the season starting.
Quote from: Eric Kelcher on October 29, 2007, 10:32:51 AM
CMRA has a strange review process and how they advanced riders to expert that is unique only to them as far as I can tell. They advanced riders then came back just prior to start of season and said they were going to advance more riders to balance the grids (I think that was reason I heard on their BBS re 07 advancements), Travis fell in this group, then required them to run expert races before determining the rider petition to remain Amateur. That is not CCS procedure as we review existing history prior to season starting so a rider can compete within the appropriate experience level, experts know a rider is up to par and Am are not competing against riders with expert talent/experience. As fully 1/4 of his races with CCS would have occurred prior to CMRA making a decision we had to make one prior to the season starting. When reviewing his finishes for 2006 it was apparent that he was an Amateur class rider with regard to his finishes and expeirence with CCS and with CMRA.
First of all. Eric, you are a good guy and I don't blame you for supporting your team, but this statement is VERY misleading. Don't forget to mention that when YOU were a part of our CMRA staff you helped design our "unique" system for advancement.
Fact is Travis made expert because of his riding abilities and finishes. What he didn't get was a championship which is what he wanted. He petitioned, we declined based on his abilities and finishes, not that we needed more experts on grid. No point system is perfect and sometomes a racer gets bumped that needs more novice time....this was not one of those times. Travis flat out told our board that if he couldn't race novice he would move to another sanctioning body to race. He did. You know the rest.
The CMRA and CCS have a good history of working together and doing what is best for our sport. This is not to put anyone in the CCS on the spot. We all deal with a lot of racers from across the country and sometimes have to take people at their word. I am not bashing the CCS and I don't want to see the CMRA bashed either. Who you should be upset with is the racer.
Barry Nichols
Assistant Race Director
Cheif Corner Marshall
Expert #41
CMRA Member since 1990
Hey, Barry, I'll probably be stirring the pot...
But, regardless of anyone's intentions, stated or not, he did petition to remain amateur. I'll agree that maybe that stating that the CMRA way of working with the petition to remain amateur is different.
There will always be different ways of doing things. The AMA worked things a little differently for Colin Edwards after all his amateur wins in 1991 with CCS and CMRA...so that he could race AMA Pro at Miami in November of 1991.
QuoteWhat he didn't get was a championship which is what he wanted. He petitioned, we declined based on his abilities and finishes, not that we needed more experts on grid. No point system is perfect and sometomes a racer gets bumped that needs more novice time....this was not one of those times. Travis flat out told our board that if he couldn't race novice he would move to another sanctioning body to race. He did
I guess I just dont see the logic... eh, everyone has their own motivation I guess.
Yes, it is true Travis appealed his advancement. Each season, we have those racers who do, mostly because they are intimidated about becoming experts. Travis was well qualified to be advanced, His petition was denied, and he RENEWED his license as an EXPERT and raced as such in February at OHR. Shortly thereafter, he was an Amateur with CCS. Now someone earlier said that the CMRA policy was to reconsider an Expert after the start of the next season, I cannot find that, and would look forward to someone pointing that out to me in the CMRA rulebook.
The CMRA Rulebook:
Per both the 2006 and 2007 rulebook (page 5, section 1.2):
"Riders may decline advancement via writing or email to CMRA if they feel they are not ready to compete on the Expert level, and may or may not be allowed to retain Novice status pending review of the rider's performance and finishes by the CMRA Board of Directors.
A rider may apply to move down in status from Expert to Novice if Novice riders are beating him consistently. Riders may or may not be allowed to move down in status pending a review of the rider's performance and finishes by the CMRA Board of Directors."
The CCS Rulebook:
Per the 2007 CCS rulebook, page 12, section 2.2.4 "A. CCS Officials will issue Expert licenses to those riders with proven experience or ability as follows: (2.) Amateur riders with organizations listed in section 2.2.1 who are being upgraded to Expert." It also goes on to say in section 2.2.6 C. "It is the riders responsibility to notify Championship Cup Series and ASRA of changes of their licensing status with any organization during the calendar year."
Look, the CMRA rules are consistent with all major roadracing sanctioning bodies across the country. The rules are considered and enforced by our MEMBER ELECTED Board of Directors who are the membership.
I am only posting to keep the CMRA, and CCS for that matter, from being blamed for the actions of a smart racer who worked the system.
Barry Nichols
Asst. Race Director
Chief Corner Marshall
CMRA member since 1990
:pop:
sounds to me like he was supposed to tell CCS he was advanced to expert in another organization. i think it's pretty obvious what happened.
Didn't take Travis long to boast about his championship....
http://www.travismarshallmotorsports.com/index.html
You'll note that no where does it mention that it's an Amateur championship - unless you look at the base of the trophy!!! :blahblah:
I don't get on a soapbox often, but this is complete bullshit.
I get beat all the time by guys who are faster than me, It's called racing. The idea is to work and improve and get faster, not to cheat the system and finally weasel your way into a class that you can win.
Congratulations dude. You lied about your classification so you could win a championship that FOUR guys contested. And you needed a built Ducati 998R to win a supertwins race?
I guess if you're cheating already, why not bring a machine gun to a fistfight.
:spank: :spank:
see ya next year JB! :cheers:
If you will notice the link that someone posted, about "ADDITIONAL" Expert racers that were bumped in the CMRA. The ADDITIONAL racers did not meet the .60 riders index that was currently used. So these racers were just pulled out of the blue, for what reason, no one knows. The rule about having to race two weekends, as an expert, the following year was not in the rulebook, but was in fact the truth. Just like the rulebook was bent to bump additional riders. I remember this very well, and so does everyone else in the CMRA. Everyone was upset, and many riders quit racing becauwe of it. If I can find the original bump grid with all the riders index's, I will post it, but I assure you, he was not on it.
If I have to guess, this has something to do with trying to destroy his credibility, seeing that he is going to start CCS South, racing against the CMRA. I'd think, that the whole story needs to be heard. If he had other racers on his tail, and didn't run away with it, I'd say he was a novice.
Not trying to stir any pot, but the truth, should be told. He was not originally bumped, then, for some reason, out of the blue, bumped, without the current riders index. Just because he finished 3rd or 4th out of 7 riders.
BTW. I don't even know the guy. But I know exactly what happened last year in the expert bumps in the CMRA.
http://www.cmraracing.com/results/2006/ri15/
Notice .38 riders index
a good 22% below the bump level as per CMRA rulebook
the cmra rulebook also states that if you finish in the top five in total points in a class you are automatically bumped to expert. he finished 3rd in heavyweight twins.
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.travismarshallmotorsports.com%2FAward.jpg&hash=b840e02f2f76db569cb921575b7fa82d372c3b79)
Novice riders finishing in the top five (5) in final season point standings in all CMRA Novice and Combined (No Expert/Novice differentiation) sprint classes will be promoted to Expert status at the end of the racing season. Novice riders that participate with any CMRA Championship (Big Bike) Endurance Team that finishes in the top three (3) in final season point standings in the five (5) CMRA Endurance classes will be promoted to Expert status at the end of the racing season. The CMRA Board of Directors may review the number of Novice riders to be advanced each season, and may use additional criteria to determine advancement. Additional criteria may include
individual finishes, lap times, safety record and the ratio of rider results to the number of competitors, among others.
from cmra rulebook.
so Marshall was Heavyweight Twins Novice final 2006
3 Travis Marshall 262 0 40 34 35 37 0 45 40 31 0
By the rulebook hi was automatically advance to expert in 2007
it is cheating?
Yes by my book
I hope is not only a talk
Please CCS do right things,
We have in 2006 situation with Henderson,
was racing as expert in wera an AM ccs and over and over.......
nothing was done.
2006 wera racer profile:
Curt Henderson
Bike # 373
Status Expert
Hometown Poplar Bluff, MO
Hard to belive ,come for a 2006 win and is gone !!!
That was a new rule for this year, not last year. They made this rule to justify, some of the additional bumps. Different classes are more or less competitive as we all know. heavyweight twins is a non competitive class in comparison, to the superstock, and superbike classes.
I am only posting. Not to flame, Or destroy anyone's credibility. I would would only like to see this person's credibility not be tarnished, he is venturing in probably the biggest accomplishment, (or failure), in his life. I do not, (no matter who they are,) want to see, a big black X, on someones credentials, if they are trying to do something good for our sport. For something Like this. When they should not have been bumped in the first place. Most of the time, points add up to those who show up. If you have 7 riders that showed up to every race in that class, it would not be very hard to finish in the top 5. At a .38 riders index, he was not competitive, in the other classes. At that index out of 30 riders, he was an average 18th place finisher. I saw many riders this year, that did not get bumped, do very well, that were not a threat, in any way last year. So he got better.
BTW. There was only one rider that raced every race in heavyweight twins, Travis himself missed 3 races, the 2nd place finisher, missed two races.
http://www.cmraracing.com/Results/2006/Event10/points/sapoints.txt Look for yourself. Check out the results in the other classes.
This was not started by the CMRA, only a disgruntled member against this certain individual. I do not believe this should have ever been posted. Now that it was, and thousands have read it. The reasoning behind it needed to be revealed. The CMRA itself, should not be to blame. Go race for yourself with the CMRA, you won't win. (unless you are a phenom) To be bumped to expert in the CMRA, the only way you will get a top ten finish, is to be an AMA regular. No wonder he petitioned. and rightfully so.
I myself apologize on behalf of the CMRA. It's a great club, with great racing, someone doesn't want it to fail, by threat of competition. In this case, the first time, the CMRA rules were out of their guidelines.(which is very rare) It just so happen to be this certain individual, that decided he didn't like the rules, and wanted to do something about it. Isn't that what we, should do???
Isn't that what everyone says? If you don't like it, do something to change it, or shut up??? That's exactly what he is doing.
Anyway.... Oh well...
I hope this helped, some of the controversy. When the law operates outside of it's guidelines, there are laws to protect us. But not in private organizations.
so 2006 rulebook don't state about top 5 finishes in amature???
Quote from: tmx11 on October 30, 2007, 05:36:54 PM
If you will notice the link that someone posted, about "ADDITIONAL" Expert racers that were bumped in the CMRA. The ADDITIONAL racers did not meet the .60 riders index that was currently used. So these racers were just pulled out of the blue, for what reason, no one knows. The rule about having to race two weekends, as an expert, the following year was not in the rulebook, but was in fact the truth. Just like the rulebook was bent to bump additional riders. I remember this very well, and so does everyone else in the CMRA. Everyone was upset, and many riders quit racing becauwe of it. If I can find the original bump grid with all the riders index's, I will post it, but I assure you, he was not on it.
If I have to guess, this has something to do with trying to destroy his credibility, seeing that he is going to start CCS South, racing against the CMRA. I'd think, that the whole story needs to be heard. If he had other racers on his tail, and didn't run away with it, I'd say he was a novice.
Not trying to stir any pot, but the truth, should be told. He was not originally bumped, then, for some reason, out of the blue, bumped, without the current riders index. Just because he finished 3rd or 4th out of 7 riders.
BTW. I don't even know the guy. But I know exactly what happened last year in the expert bumps in the CMRA.
If you are going to post inflamatory, supposedly first hand knowledge that you claim to be true, why not add your real name?
From the CMRA rulebook:
"Novice riders who meet or exceed the requirement of Expert classification will be promoted to Expert status at the end of the racing season. The method of advancement is by the Rider Index formula, which is a mathematical formula that factors both finishes and field sizes. The Rider Index is determined using the following formula: Rider Index = 1 - (Finishing Position / Number of Starters). This is calculated for each race a rider enters, then the average of all his/her races that season. The Novice rider must have entered at least 15 races to be included in consideration for advancement. The CMRA Board of Directors will determine the number of Novice riders to be advanced each season, and the Rider Index will be announced following the last race of each season. Riders with a Rider Index at and above the announced Rider Index are automatically moved up to Expert the following year. Also, any Novice who wins a Class Championship is automatically moved up to Expert."
Here is the mysterious formula. Now the truth. Every year the cutoff point changes. Sometimes up, sometimes down. It changes out of necessity due to various factors that change year to year in the novice ranks. Factors like grid sizes, laptimes of top novices to experts, contingency consideration in the expert field, and so on. The fact that it changes is generally not noticed. In 2006 it was because the first number that was announced was decided by the 2005 number and was not representative of the 2006 novice class racers who were fast enough to be experts.
Now when the second bump was announced, the Board, the officials, nor anyone else for that matter could have predicted that Travis would leave the CMRA, contest as an Amatuer in CCS, win a championship, and start his own racing series under CCS South. Hard to beleive then that there was a conspiracy by the CMRA to malign his character with the future hopes of destroying his credibility.
For all we at the CMRA knew, Travis had along with the other new experts, accepted his promotion as he chose to RENEW his license as an EXPERT in 2007 and race.
Want more proof? Here is a pic from his own website taking the checkered flag at OHR in Feb 07.
http://www.travismarshallmotorsports.com/Pic_051.JPG
Looks like white plates to me.
Barry Nichols
CMRA
Quote from: tmx11 on October 30, 2007, 07:17:17 PM
That was a new rule for this year, not last year. They made this rule to justify, some of the additional bumps. Different classes are more or less competitive as we all know. heavyweight twins is a non competitive class in comparison, to the superstock, and superbike classes.
I am only posting. Not to flame, Or destroy anyone's credibility. I would would only like to see this person's credibility not be tarnished, he is venturing in probably the biggest accomplishment, (or failure), in his life. I do not, (no matter who they are,) want to see, a big black X, on someones credentials, if they are trying to do something good for our sport. For something Like this. When they should not have been bumped in the first place. Most of the time, points add up to those who show up. If you have 7 riders that showed up to every race in that class, it would not be very hard to finish in the top 5. At a .38 riders index, he was not competitive, in the other classes. At that index out of 30 riders, he was an average 18th place finisher. I saw many riders this year, that did not get bumped, do very well, that were not a threat, in any way last year. So he got better.
BTW. There was only one rider that raced every race in heavyweight twins, Travis himself missed 3 races, the 2nd place finisher, missed two races.
http://www.cmraracing.com/Results/2006/Event10/points/sapoints.txt Look for yourself. Check out the results in the other classes.
This was not started by the CMRA, only a disgruntled member against this certain individual. I do not believe this should have ever been posted. Now that it was, and thousands have read it. The reasoning behind it needed to be revealed. The CMRA itself, should not be to blame. Go race for yourself with the CMRA, you won't win. (unless you are a phenom) To be bumped to expert in the CMRA, the only way you will get a top ten finish, is to be an AMA regular. No wonder he petitioned. and rightfully so.
I myself apologize on behalf of the CMRA. It's a great club, with great racing, someone doesn't want it to fail, by threat of competition. In this case, the first time, the CMRA rules were out of their guidelines.(which is very rare) It just so happen to be this certain individual, that decided he didn't like the rules, and wanted to do something about it. Isn't that what we, should do???
Isn't that what everyone says? If you don't like it, do something to change it, or shut up??? That's exactly what he is doing.
Anyway.... Oh well...
I hope this helped, some of the controversy. When the law operates outside of it's guidelines, there are laws to protect us. But not in private organizations.
Wow. Clearly....What..........Huh....... Wow. I am too tired to rebut all the inacuracies in this one.
If you CCS racers are ever in the neighborhood, stop by and race a few with us. Then decide. Cheers!
Barry Nichols
CMRA
No one was arguing with you Barry. The rulebook does clearly state what you said it did. Up until this year, there was no way to bump novice endurance racers. Yes?? This year the new rule was added that the top 5 in each class get bumped was added? Yes/no? I remember this clearly, that several endurance racers that only entered enough races not to qualify for the bump... Yes. it's true. Every year this is argued... YES???? If I had the time to search through threads, there was clearly a thread about the fact that if you wanted to remain novice, you had to race the first two (2) races as an expert before your petition would even be accepted... This is accurate. YES!
I do not post my name because I enjoy racing with the CMRA, I did not agree with the additional bumps last year. Now that someone decided to switch clubs, because he was so unhappy with it. Why should he be getting bashed? In one of the 1000 classes he was ten seconds off pace from the lead expert rider in the first expert race, three seconds slower than the top novice finisher. Yet, his petition was denied?
You can try to bash my credibility all you want, I don't care. I only would like to see both clubs, succeed, this was a low blow. By only one of the CMRA members. Not the CMRA as a whole. Last year was the first time, people were bumped, with such low riders index's. Many that were below the level, were not competitive. This is my one and only point. Why was this thread posted in the first place by a CMRA official? That is the biggest problem, and the fact of who it's against. It was none of his business. Many racers quit racing with the CMRA because of the ruling. Maybe some of them still wanted to race, but humiliated, to be lapped by the first ten experts.
I'll go ahead and believe my words and credibility will stand for themselves. How would most of you novice racers feel to be bumped as a 15th place finisher? Just because you raced one non-competitive class, and did well.
WOW! Sometimes the racer himself/herself must make a good decision. I enjoy racing with both the CMRA and CCS. In 2006 I had some decent amateur finishes, but did not make the 15 race minimum with the CMRA. I couldn't afford to race the entire season. Driving was closer for many of the CCS races. I did what I feel was the right thing to do. At the end of last season I petitioned the CMRA for advancement to Expert, before learning of my status with the CCS. I want to get better and competing against the best is the way to do it. I'm not looking for an atta boy, just disappointed people don't make better decision. No amateur championship here, but I learned more this year getting spanked by the Experts than I would have winning amateur events. Just my two cents.
Humiliated by getting lapped in an Expert race? huh.
Quote from: Burt Munro on October 30, 2007, 12:52:05 PM
Didn't take Travis long to boast about his championship....
http://www.travismarshallmotorsports.com/index.html
You'll note that no where does it mention that it's an Amateur championship - unless you look at the base of the trophy!!! :blahblah:
This is almost as good as Desperate Housewives... Where's the popcorn?
it is everyone's business that races. dude got advanced to expert by his 3rd place finish in points, not the riders index. he didn't like getting bumped because he didn't think he could be a podium finisher on the expert level, so he goes to the CCS and tells them he's an amatuer. Then he wins a natinoal championship? So an amatuer national champion couldn't compete in the expert level? We don't have to tarnish his name, he managed to do that all on his own. There is absolutely no shame in being a slow expert.
+1For You Dave,
one will not last long enough so Two for You :pop: :pop:
Quote from: BigJerm7 on October 30, 2007, 09:19:44 PM
it is everyone's business that races. dude got advanced to expert by his 3rd place finish in points, not the riders index. he didn't like getting bumped because he didn't think he could be a podium finisher on the expert level, so he goes to the CCS and tells them he's an amatuer. Then he wins a natinoal championship? So an amatuer national champion couldn't compete in the expert level? We don't have to tarnish his name, he managed to do that all on his own.
BIG +1
Simple Facts:
CMRA classified Travis Marshal as an Expert for the 2007 season.
CCS classified Travis Marshal as an Amateur for the 2007 season.
Both clubs said they reviewed his history and past race performance to make their ruling.
Everything else is irrelevant!
Troy Green
CMRA #45
CCS #45
Quote from: tmx11 on October 30, 2007, 08:48:09 PM
I do not post my name because I enjoy racing with the CMRA, I did not agree with the additional bumps last year. Now that someone decided to switch clubs, because he was so unhappy with it. Why should he be getting bashed?
You can try to bash my credibility all you want, I don't care. I only would like to see both clubs, succeed
Okay, I wasn't going to post again tonight, but I want to clear something up.
First, I hope you keep racing the CMRA and enjoying it. The staff and officials really work hard to make that happen.
Second, giving your real name would not change how we treat you. What a boring world if we all thought the same. It just keeps the flame throwers in line when you know people can call BS on you.
Third, I wasn't bashing you. But realize it or not your facts are not all correct and you say things that mislead. For instance, The CMRA doesn't make rules to "justify". That gives the appearance to those who do not know better that there is inconsistencies in our abilty to manage our series.
Fourth, this is all about rules. CCS, WERA, CMRA, AMA, etc. all have them and they should respected by the racers and between clubs. I have already cited both CCS and CMRA rulebooks for 2006 and 2007. I think the print is fairly clear.
Lastly, this is not about bashing or stirring up trouble, or even "poop fests". It is about right and wrong.
Taking away the Championship from him may disrupt the new series!
Quote from: Eric Kelcher on October 30, 2007, 10:24:31 AM
As fully 1/4 of his races with CCS would have occurred prior to CMRA making a decision we had to make one prior to the season starting.
Hi was expert since 11 2006 and race as expert on Oak Hill Raceway, Henderson, TX February 16-18/07
so before Hi apply to ccs Hi was aware of the bump to expert in cmra,
For me is simple fraud!
All facts are in the table,just right decision has to be made.
i guess we can't really expect the CCS to do anything to him since he's starting a new CCS series. I'll stick with Dean and CCS GP.
+1
Atleast it makes me feel a little better that I finished 2nd to a "shoulda been an EXPERT!" Hopefully CCS will make this right.
Ok, so I'll toss this out since everyone's here.
Reallly, a three tier system might be in order. I'm not talking like Loudon, but something different.
There needs to be an honest amateur class. A real sport learning class. Something where a non experienced rider could start racing. Call it "amateur", limit a rider to that class for 18 months or something. Minimal classes. Lightweight, Middleweight, Unlimited, with no index for bike modifications. Think of it as a replacement for track days.
On top, the "expert" class. Fewer classes than currently available. Maybe races that are 20 to 50% longer than the current set ups. Maybe some purse paying classes.
In the middle, "Sportsman". This is where a lot of racers might remain. They are sportsman racers that love to race. They don't want to race in the AMA, they don't feel they can be competitive in manufacturers contingency races, etc., etc. Put Formula Geriatric in there, not in "expert". Make all the points you want to crown a sportsman champion.
A rider can be invited to move into the sportsman class from amateur. Additionally, they can be invited to move from sportsman to expert. At some point in a rider's career, they may not feel the specific needs nor financial ability to race as an expert...they can move back to being a sportsman rider. No big rewards in sportsman racing, but it might be fun.
With all the contingency and the mobility of individuals, it seems as though there's continued goofiness happening with experts riding as amateurs, in some cases, and less competitive bumped experts feelling that motorcycle racing doesn't offer anything to them...is that the root cause of why total entries per rider is dropping? Yeah, the cost is going up, but aren't we still seeing rider average two years? Why not do something to change that to make it three years? Imagine what would happen to organizational license fees if one could just increase racer life by 50%?
:pop:
The season is not over, there is still a race at Homestead in Dec.
http://www.ccsracing.com/points/2007/FLPTS%20Class.htm
and Hi is 1st in twin AM FL
so tell me Hi is not competitive HAHAHA
Take away the Championship ,Hi is a disgrace to racing community
Fuel for the fire?
http://www.wera.com/racerprofiles/racers/R_Travis_Marshall_18827.htm
Quote from: SVbadguy on October 30, 2007, 10:06:59 PM
Fuel for the fire?
http://www.wera.com/racerprofiles/racers/R_Travis_Marshall_18827.htm
+1 really really interesting now
WTF!!!! He's an Expert in WERA for 2007!
this is a JOKE
same was Henderson,Expert in wera and am in CCS in 2006
and NOTHING was done :wtf: just :blahblah: :blahblah:
Maybe that was the wrong choice in words. It was never against the CMRA. Everything I said is 100% true and accurate. I just wanted all these people to understand that the ruling did call for them to race expert for 2 weekends, before their petition would be accepted. (Those were the rules) and he followed them. He was not competitive to even win the novice class.
Maybe because I didn't have the rulebooks side by side, by your point of view, I was inaccurate. All I want to see, is a good start, for two clubs to race side by side. As the person who starts, such a venue, I believe his credibility, is very important. He did try to follow the rules. He was unhappy with the ruling, he switched clubs to be classified differently, by the sanctioning body.
It's the same everywhere, if the person that protests, does well, everyone else somehow calls "CHEATER". If you are on his tail, what does that make you? That just means, it took you one year to do what he did in two.
No one except the person that started this thread, had any idea, about the circumstances that lead to this point. This was a poop fest, started by one person, with ill intent, towards this person. But, just so happen to leave out the facts that lead to him switching clubs. I posted to tell everyone why. Not to bash anyone. Just to save an important person in racing's (and CCS's) credibility.
Barry has my utmost respect. Seeing that he is trying to save face, and stick up for the club he loves so much. The one who started this thread, should be, the one speaking up.
Yes, he placed third in one class, he was no where near third, in the others, therefore he protested. He fell in a catagory, that put, the CMRA in a possition to rule in one way, so that 500 other people can't say "hey, well you let him do it!!!" CMRA is too big of a club to make exceptions for anyone.
If he doesn't want to be expert for 2007, why does he have expert status in WERA or did he get bumped there too?
BIG BS MR TMX11
Remeber you all are complaining about getting beat by one of CMRA's slower novices.... Take away his championship, he finished 3rd to last in the CMRA expert ranks.. C'mon guys
are You TMX are his attorney :blahblah:
rules are for everybody period
That's probably because he only raced 2 race weekends out of his 2007 expert session before going Amatuer with CCS for 2007. So I guess that would make him 3rd to last out of experts with CMRA.
Does TMX11 stand for Travis Marsha11?
Hi finish 3,5,6 as expert in cmra this year
from cmra web expert overall
so :jerkoff: tmx
Paging CCS!!!
Look, those were the rules. He had to race them to be able to protest. Had he not been on a 999, and a 600,750, or 1000 instead, NO WAY would he have been bumped. Just thought it would make a difference if everyone knew the whole story. But, rules are rules. You are all right. Hang him, I don't care. I've found that racing is full of a few very talented riders, and the rest whine about them.
Peace out! Good luck to CCS South.
To say I have "ill intent " towards Travis is out in left field. I am not a 'disgruntled' memmber. What I am is someone who believes the rules are the rules with out regard to who or what you are.
Kevin Dennis
CMRA tech inspector
Locking this thread. If anyone has any further questions, please take it directly to CCS officials who can be contacted through various means via www.ccsracing.com