So really, how is the team challenge race time limit determined?
At the riders meeting before the race in Daytona they said the time limit was 2hrs 15 minutes but when the race started, the clock was 2 hours.
At CMP, Phill said that the race will be limited to 2hrs and 15 minutes but it ended up getting cut short due to the red flag.
At HPT, I assumed it would be 2:15, but it ended up being 2 hrs and 25 minutes!
Whats the deal? How long is the race supposed to be limited to? And when is the clock supposed to start counting down? When the 5 board goes up or when the green flag is waived? Can someone explain this to me?
It is supposed to be a 2hr race. It can either end on time or on x number of laps. Normally it ends on time. The time is started when the 5 board go out .
10.2 Race Distance- Team Challenge events will be considered complete after posted
distance or the posted time limit has expired, whichever comes first. The clock will start at
the display of the original 5-minute board. . Should the checkered flag be displayed prior
to the published or announced race distance or time, the race will be considered
complete.
A. Unless otherwise posted, the Team Challenge distance will be 200 kilometers
or 2 hours in length.
kept me guessing on the pit board. we kept holding back on putting the time left up after we figured out it wasn't 2 hours so we could slowly work the mistake into place without freaking you out.
I know the rules. I've read it many times. What I'm saying is, unless posted, the race should be 200km or 2 hrs, whichever comes first. Personally I prefer a longer race, but that's not my argument. My point is, the race has been advertised on the schedule as a 250km race, which is fine, but the time limit keeps on changing. How is the time limit determined? Is it based on average speed during morning practice? How do they come up with the 2hr 15min time limit for CMP? How do they come up with the 2hr 25min for HPT? The 2hr 25min wasn't announced or posted, I assumed it was 2hrs and 15 mins. So my pit crew was confused after the 2hr 15mins expired. It would be nice to have some consistency or predictability.
They just wanted to let us play in the rain for a while! :thumb:
They knew the hail was coming... :cheers:
Hey, I had fun in the rain and hail but I wasn't sure if I was going to run out of gas! There were no red flags, so I calculated my fuel based on 2hrs and 15 minutes since I pit in on TIME elaps and not LAPS completed.
the hail was fun
I didnt know what it was at first when the hail started. I thought the guy in front of me had went off track or something and was flinging rocks and mud or something up. Then the white things bouncing off the track back up at me caught my eye.
That was one of the craziest races I have ran. Rain, Sun, Rain, Hail, Rain, then Sun. Hey if you dont like the weather in KS.. wait 15 mins!
Race is for a specified distance, time limit is to prevent delay of other races if conditions prevent completion of the distance. The finish is based on the FIRST rider to reach the distance. Race might be 1 hour 45 min if conditions are good. You need to watch the overall leader to determine your pit strategy.
so how do you go about figuring out who the leader is 30 laps into the race?
The race was scheduled for 62 laps. Track length is 2.5 miles. Race length = 155.00 miles. 250 kilometers = 155.343 miles.
Race time limit was set at 2:30 hrs. The race winner completed 62 laps as the time limit was expiring. A time limit countdown clock (located under the starters bridge) showed the time left for the last 60 minutes of the race.
Anyone who asked at the starters bridge was given info on who the top 3 were. Would it have been nice to have a monitor showing the running order? Most definitely! A real time online feed? Oh yeah!
FYI.... there were major problems with the track's scoring loop on Friday and Saturday consistantly picking up transponder hits. (Much of Friday's problem may have been due to the rain.)
It was necessary on Sunday to rebuild the the coax connection to the scoring loop which finally solved much of the problem.
Any other questions?
...and no, I don't know what it feels like to get hit with marble sized hail at 100 mph!!! But I do know what it feels like to stand on a metal bridge, 20 feet in the air with an electrical device strapped to your head when it's lightning and you're updating the Race Director with each lightning strike, hoping that it isn't your last words!!!
... and no, I don't know if there is a way to indicate 'hail' with a flag. Do icy marbles constitute a different kind of debris?
Rick
Quote from: Burt Munro on May 02, 2007, 10:13:10 PM
The race was scheduled for 62 laps. Track length is 2.5 miles. Race length = 155.00 miles. 250 kilometers = 155.343 miles.
Race time limit was set at 2:30 hrs. The race winner completed 62 laps as the time limit was expiring. A time limit countdown clock (located under the starters bridge) showed the time left for the last 60 minutes of the race.
Anyone who asked at the starters bridge was given info on who the top 3 were. Would it have been nice to have a monitor showing the running order? Most definitely! A real time online feed? Oh yeah!
Any other questions?
Burt, I can do math, I have an engineering degree. It doesn't explain how the 2hr 30 minute limit was determined for HPT or the 2hr 15min @ CMP. I remember the time limit being announced at the CMP Team Challenge riders meeting but didn't hear it at HPT. I know its a set 250km distance race and if that distance hasn't been met, the rule book limits the race to 2 hrs (or more if posted or announced).
How does the event coordinator or race director set the limit? Is it based on the number of races they have scheduled that day and maybe there is a whee little bit time available to add to the 2hr standard limit? Maybe the race director just "feels" like having a 2hr 30 minute race just like he "feels" like taking a dump at 8am or maybe 9am? C'mon guys, seriously, answer my question, its not magic.
One time I did a 3 hour Fastraxx (Bob Stanley - RIP) endurance race @ Nelson Ledges back in 2004. I remember it started out sunny, then hail larger than golf balls came down. That race got red flagged. When it all stopped, there was a double rainbow from horizon to horizon and we went back out. Those are some fond memories... I miss that track...
Mr. Pribadi,
I'm sure you don't intend to come off as an arrogant ass and it would be easy for me to reply to you in the same tone. Unfortunately, I was not at the riders meeting so I can't say with 100% accuracy if or what time limit was announced.
The only thing I can say for certain is that there was a countdown clock located between the track and hot pit under the starter's bridge. This clock was started when there was 60 minutes left on the 2:30 hr time allotment. I'm sorry if you or your support team did not see this.
And yes, the clock starts when the 5 board goes up.
Rick Weaver
Assistant Starter and Technical Inspector, CCS/ASRA
Biomedical Engineering, M.S.
The Whiting School of Engineering
Johns Hopkins University
How do they come up with the 2hr30min time???
What dictates a 2hr time limit as apposed to a 2.5 hour time limit???
Mike Middleton
Head Manufacturing Process Engineer
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Current Psychology Doctoral Student
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dude your not right... :lmao:
Thanks for standing out there Rick, every 5 mins when I would go buy (hey I was on DOT's!!!) I'd think "man that must suck.. man does THIS suck... 2 more laps and I'm parking it"
Couldnt believe they left you guys out there with the lightning... scary!!!
I quit before the hail... barely
Rick I think the correct flag for hail is simply the debris flag positioned over your head to keep from getting pelted...
Zeroice, maybe call the CCS office for an official explanation... i dont think anyone that was at the race frequents this forum other than Rick (Burt).
some of you guys spent way to much time in school....
Sorry Rick, no pun intended, was trying to be funny but came off arrogant.
yeah, the race was rough and I was on DOTs the whole time too but generally I had fun.
Anyways, I'll give em a call I suppose.
Hey Jester, thanks for staying out there in the pits for me the entire time; that must have been harsh! Funny how you remember every school you've been to. I hardly remember which grade school I went to since I attended so many different ones...
The time limit as I understand it is based on a reasonable amount of time to complete the specified number of laps and further depends on the days schedule. The time limit is to prevent delaying the schedule for the rest of the day. How it is determined is irrelevant as it is specified on the days schedule and most likely at the riders meeting as well.
Hawk, So you're saying "a reasonable amount of time to complete the race" which translates to average lap times to do the distance? Now which lap times are those? practice? track record? last year's time?
I missed a few. I moved around a lot.
But I enjoyed helping you out. Give me a heads up next time and i'd be more than happy to help you again. I had fun with it.
and congrats on the win.
No problem! :cheers:
I can't honestly say that I've heard a formula to determine the time limit.
I tried a couple of scenarios: 1:50 laps would put you at 1:53:40 for 62 laps. 2:00 laps would be 2:04:00 and both of these don't factor in a gas and/or rider stop.
Timmay! Coming by every 5 minutes? Wow, you only lost about 30 seconds a lap in that crap compared your dry track times!!!! :kicknuts:
:ass:
after the first hour or so I had no idea how long I had been out... just out for a leisurely cruise!! :biggrin:
Kept thinking how great the racing would be sat and sun and how FEW spares I had with me...
what suck is I had rain's in the trailer... oh well, good racin from there on out!
Quote from: zeroice on May 03, 2007, 04:54:28 PM
Hawk, So you're saying "a reasonable amount of time to complete the race" which translates to average lap times to do the distance? Now which lap times are those? practice? track record? last year's time?
My bet is that they have some idea from historical laptimes and base it on that. Usually if you look at the laptimes of the winner in good race conditions you will see that they can complete the distance in slightly less time than the limit. Like I said though there is the factor of the days schedule, they don't want the race to run long and push back the whole day.
The key is to watch the leader and you can calculate when the race will reach distance or in bad conditions watch the time limit and the count down clock. The most important thing though is to have fun!
When in doubt, multiply by pi.