I don't know if this will affect anyone going to Daytona....
http://www.nhra.com/content/news/18782.htm
Dawn
Looks like we'll skip Florida when we retire and start hauling the trailer around the country.
All those travel trailers being pulled over will definitely put a hurt in their tourism dollars so I don't see this lasting long before the Gov or someone steps in.
I'll keep an eye on more info in my Trailer Life magazine and AAA stuff. So far haven't seen anything about it.
More ways for farm money out of the pocket of travelers.
Great.
Keep in mind it take a lot of rig to hit 65' tho, mine is 68 or 69' long.
My trailer is only 35' but I'd still need a permit for hauling a trailer over 28'. A 28' trailer isn't much. Most travel trailers out there are bigger than that.
I've got a "24" foot trailer, but I'm betting that my length with the tongue is close to 28'.
I know someone that got pulled over for being over wide. They had a roll up awning that extended past the fender length, and he was fined.
Quote from: weggieman on March 03, 2007, 02:00:52 PMMost travel trailers out there are bigger than that.
Was my thought too. I supposed they are trying to tap into Gma and Gpa's money.
If it were me I would risk it. Florida is probably the #1 vacation spot in the country so there are going to be lots and lots of travellers with 28 footers and over that really won't even know, probably than there are state troopers. Playing ignorant can play into your hands in that situation as well.
Fla Statute, 316.515 Max width, say look up def. in 320.01...private coaches and travel trailer,
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0320/SEC01.HTM&Title=->2006->Ch0320->Section%2001#0320.01 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0320/SEC01.HTM&Title=->2006->Ch0320->Section%2001#0320.01)
Looking toward Daytona Bike Week 2008 I remembered this thread, so did anyone buy the permit and/or did anyone get pulled over or ticketed for violating this new law?
I towed a 44' gooseneck no problem. @##$# a permit!!!!
I got the permit but never been checked - however I know some of the car teams have been pulled over. I don't go past many cops heading to Jennings so the odds are good but there's no reason to not follow the rules.
I just called them. Over 28' is fine, it's only when the over all is over 65'.
But even then it's BS.
You say no reason NOT to follow the ruels. Give me one good reason TO follow the rules! When they are stupid.
What are the permit costs?
You truly believe that just because YOU disagree with a law/rule you don't have to follow it? Interesting approach. Stupid, but interesting.
Personally I'd rather actually work to get a law changed if I disagreed with it than do the pussy passive aggressive routine but to each their own.
Quote from: APP_Racing on February 05, 2008, 06:56:17 PM
What are the permit costs?
Anyone know? Before I bitch I`d be interested in knowing!!
I went searching and it looks like most racers would be covered by 20 bucks for a year permit?! NOT worth risking the fines driving to FL without!! :kicknuts:
Still waiting for a good reason....
You know it really doesn't matter the cost. It's the principal of it. You pay taxes already, fuel tax, license etc. That is just another tax. And where is that money going?
The people that stand up against something and speak their mind when there is something wrong are not the pusses.
It's the people that say something like.
"NOT worth risking the fines driving to FL without!!"
And give in with out a fight.
I think we have a country of sheep. It's a good thing our founding fathers didn't just go along with what they were told. I think people forget that THEY run this country not government.
You think I'm passive?
I stand up for what I think is right, and don't always just go along even though it might be against the law.
This is long but there is a point.
Let me tell you a story about me not going along in South Daytona FL.
One year I was there for bike week. We were staying at a friend's house in S. Daytona. We were driving back late when I said to my wife look at all the cops. Now south Daytona is about 2 mi. long and 1/2 mi. wide and I saw 11 cop cars, oh no a ticket trap. I said I bet we get pulled over. Sure enough here he came and we were not speeding. He followed me for a while then turned on his lights.
When I stopped I turned the truck sideways in front of him opened my door and showed him in his headlights and on camera that my seat belt was on, because if they can't find anything else wrong that is what they will fall back on. In FL you can't protest a seat belt ticket, or at least you couldn't when I lived there. You have to pay it, how convenient. Anyway he walks up and says how much have you had to drink to night? I said nothing, because I don't drink. He wanted to know why I was weaving all over the road, I said I wasn't. I have it on tape he says. So I tell him to show me. We walk back to his car as he starts to give me a DUI test. He saw pretty quickly that I'm fine, and then shows me the tape. Guess what no weaving. He then tells me to go back to the truck. After a while here he comes and says sign this. I ask him what's it for. Guess; go ahead... you got it no seat belt. I came unglued then a big argument started. I told him to show me the tape again and I can prove I had it on. He said he had erased it. I said bullshit you can't do that, where is your head quarters. He told me it would be best for me if I just take the ticket and leave. I told him I was not taking the ticket and was going to talk to his boss. If you leave without signing this you will go to jail. I told him to call for back up because if I was going it would be for a reason and kicking your ass would be a good one.
So I got in my truck and drove to the station and went in. His boss was standing there waiting for me. We had a long talk; he went out looked at the tape and came back in.
He said your right it was very obvious that your seat belt was on. So you won't get that ticket, BUT..I did notice that you had a license plate light out. I just shook my head and said there was no way I was leaving with out a ticket right. He said right but this one is only $9. I told him it's not the money it's the principle and the fact your officer lied in the first place then lied about the seat belt. Also he was a total ass hole to boot. And the fact that what you are doing is a scam, rip off or what ever you want to call it and is wrong.
He said just get it fixed show a police officer give him the $9 and he will sign it off. I asked him if their department got any of the money because if not then I would do it when I got back home. He said yes they get $5 of it. I said no way I would take it to court. Now get this he said you can't take that kind of ticket to court. So if you don't pay it you will loose you license. I told him I would drive the rest of my life with out one before I would pay it. Well I lost my license for over a year while I was fighting it. I finally got a judge to listen to my case. He said they can't do what they were doing it was against the law. So he started checking in to it more. He found out that the little town of S. Daytona the year before had written more tickets during Speed Week and Bike Week than the city of Jacksonville had written in a year. They hired a lot of extra help during that time and were making millions. They don't do it any more. He took care of it. I got my license back "no charge" and an apology from the department.
The point is, yes it would have been a lot easier to pay the $9. and not loose my license "Most people would have just taken the seat belt ticket" but it wasn't right. And I stood up for what was right. Most people just tucked their tails between their legs and said there is nothing I can do, so I better just pay it. And that is what they were banking on. If I hadn't broken the law and just conformed to the system then it would still be happening.
So now next time you're in S. Daytona for Bike Week and don't get a ticket for doing nothing wrong, then think about this passive puss. Or if you think what they were doing was OK then just stop in and hand them 100 bucks or so I'm sure they could use the money.
Quote from: BrettRay76 on February 05, 2008, 03:01:30 PM
I just called them. Over 28' is fine, it's only when the over all is over 65'.
Just by chance they didn't tell you where you can find that in writing did they? Makes me wonder where the NHRA article came up with the 28'Trailer thing? I've become very dis-trusting of anything I'm told by anyone anymore, I want it in writing!
Quote from: Boober on February 06, 2008, 02:58:22 PM
I went searching and it looks like most racers would be covered by 20 bucks for a year permit?! NOT worth risking the fines driving to FL without!! :kicknuts:
If I was required to get one (as much as I think it would be total BS) I think splitting it $10 for Bike Week then $10 for Biketoberfest isn't too outragous, at least it's for the entire year. :err:
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on May 19, 1970, 11:52:32 PM
If I was required to get one (as much as I think it would be total BS) I think splitting it $10 for Bike Week then $10 for Biketoberfest isn't too outragous, at least it's for the entire year. :err:
Don't you see that's just it, it's not too bad. It's only $10 and $10. It's not worth the trouble.
They keep it low so people won't throw a fit. Then whats next, Oh there is a $6 charge if your over 6 wheels, then, then , then.
In a couple of years when people get used to it then it goes to $40 and so on.
Get my point.
I'm not here to attack anyone or call them names. I'm just tired of seeing people cave while getting stepped on by our goverment. While our rights are slowly but surely being taken away bit by bit so your won't notice.
Quote from: BrettRay76 on February 06, 2008, 10:46:16 PMI'm not here to attack anyone or call them names. I'm just tired of seeing people cave while getting stepped on by our goverment. While our rights are slowly but surely being taken away bi by bit so your won't notice.
Believe me, I'm with you on this, I've done something similar with a couple 'revenue tickets' I was given locally, got them reversed. But in this situation my hands are tied (which is what they depend on), I live in a different State 1200 miles away.
As far as our rights being taken away, I agree again. I don't have a link, but if you do a little research try and find articles concerning The 12 Steps to the Failure of Every Democracy in history - I believe it was originally written about in the 1800's. Every great Democracy in ALL of history has failed in a series of 12 steps, no shit!!! Also Democracies have a 'life-cycle' if you want to call it that, they generally last a certain number of years (or generations if you want to look at it that way) before corruption leads to failure. Back in the middle of the 20th Century the US was around the middle of that failure process (apx steps 5 / 6), sadly toward the end of the cycle it rapidly accelerates and we are now at the final steps (11 / 12) of our Democracy where corruption runs rampent within our Government and the attitude has sadly shifted from a Government dependant on its' people to a people dependant on its' Government. For those who think that voting for the best Presidential candidate will help anything, your wrong, they will only provide Band-aids to cover up and try and hide the things that need massive surgery. Unfortunately the innevitable process of Democracy failure is already very far into its' motion.
I'm a realist, I'm not oblivious as many in this country as to what's about to happen, I understand our version of 'Democracy' and 'Freedom' is on the threshold of a massive change. I know this sounds pessimistic, but there's really nothing you can do this late into this failure process, it's going to happen! The frustrations you have now will only get worse in the coming years, what drives you out of your mind now is going to go to a whole new level before our Democracy fails completely. What happens after it fails? Most Democracies are replaced with a Monarchy or Dictatorship, generally a single all powerful ruler takes over to avert all the chaotic remnants of a failed Democracy. Like the Democratic process? Then you better cherish it while its' still here.
Think I'm full of crap, look it up for yourself, but I will warn you that most people's idealistic interpretation of Democracy will probably change afterwards. So as far as paying the trailering fee if I have to in Florida, I really don't have much of a choice, it's all part of a much bigger problem. :banghead:
I like the way you think.
I will find the 12 step deal and read it, sounds interesting.
I guess I keep my head up and eyes wide open to see what's going on around me. Then I think about it too much.
If I would just keep my head down eyes shut and go along like most people it would be easier on me.
But where's the fun in that?
I think this is what you were talking about.
When the thirteen colonies were still a part of England, Professor Alexander Tyler wrote about the fall of the Athenian republic over two thousand years previous to that time:
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage.
Alexander Tyler
I was thinking today about where I had read about that 12 step process (it was something like 15 years ago when I read it). I believe it may have been in one of the numerous Dale Carnegie books I read back in the early 90's, If I remember correctly what you found was the springboard for the next guy who broke it down to 12 easily identifyable steps that weren't just generalizations like you have copied in that last paragraph. But ultimately that was the basis for it. :thumb:
Only one problem with this discussion, the US is not a democracy, it is a federal republic.
+1 :biggrin: I usually try to make that point.
Still, doesn't that mean that the individuals that some of us take the time to elect are doing a poor job or representing our issues and interests?
Quote from: Super Dave on February 09, 2008, 08:58:59 AM
+1 :biggrin: I usually try to make that point.
Still, doesn't that mean that the individuals that some of us take the time to elect are doing a poor job or representing our issues and interests?
No it doesn't. However I wish more of our representatives would do the right thing rather than worry about being re-elected.
Quote from: tzracer on February 09, 2008, 07:52:01 AM
Only one problem with this discussion, the US is not a democracy, it is a federal republic.
Never heard it described as that before, if so it's ironic that it's still following the same path to failure as a Democracy does.
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on February 09, 2008, 04:38:16 PM
Never heard it described as that before, if so it's ironic that it's still following the same path to failure as a Democracy does.
Carefully listen to the Pledge of Allegiance. Just because it is the path to destruction for a democracy, does not mean it is the path to destruction for a republic. The founders of our country understood the short falls of a democracy (majority rule is not always a good idea).
It will be interesting to see what the US does different than a traditional Democracy now that we're reaching the end of that cycle (since the US is definately at the 'Dependancy' stage where so many people think the Government is obligated to support them). I still firmly believe that a massive change isn't too far off - the loss of Religion, Morals, and the Family unit at the citizens level and corruption, focus on special interest groups, and a disappearing Middle Class spurred by taxation at the Governemental level are all red flags to something very wrong. Time will tell, I sure hope the Founding Fathers of this country had a plan to go beyond this.
Aw damn Brett, I am so sorry that I have a life off of the internet that I actually have to attend to rather than respond to internet badasses such as yourself.
BTW - I don't do my discussing via PM so here's your response -
Quote from: BrettRay76 on February 06, 2008, 10:53:30 PM
There should be nothing personal about this discussion. If that's how you feel then ok then pay it. But to call me names when you don't even know me is uncalled for. I would like you to edit your post and remove the name calling or add a new one with an apology.
Thanks
Brett Ray
Why the PM and not posting publicly? You are stupid. You freely admitted to breaking the law on purpose. That is stupid. You're one of those morons who thinks that breaking laws you disagree with is a good thing. That's a bunch of pussy bullshit. If you think the laws are wrong then get off your ass and work to change them. Instead whiny bitches like you try and spout off a lot of crap about civil disobedience and how you're fighting the man. Yeah right, grow up and get out into the real world.
BTW - you're a dumbass. That is an insult. Calling you stupid is merely a statement of fact.
The reason for oversize permits is pretty simple - my 73' rig does a hell of a lot more wear an tear than a vehicle under the limit. Requiring permits is actually taxing the people more who are using more. That is what I want to see across the board. There is no reason for me to be paying the same amount to use the road as a pickup truck pulling a 5x8 flatbed trailer. I'm also in favor of people driving larger rigs to have testing for licenses before they get out on the road. But hey, I'm just caving to the man.....
Quote from: Mongo on February 10, 2008, 04:58:25 PM
The reason for oversize permits is pretty simple - my 73' rig does a hell of a lot more wear an tear than a vehicle under the limit. Requiring permits is actually taxing the people more who are using more. That is what I want to see across the board. There is no reason for me to be paying the same amount to use the road as a pickup truck pulling a 5x8 flatbed trailer. I'm also in favor of people driving larger rigs to have testing for licenses before they get out on the road. But hey, I'm just caving to the man.....
That paragraph was my initial reason with bringing up this topic again, does LENGTH of a trailer really cause more wear and tear on the roads? My 26' tandem axle enclosed car hauler trailer loaded with 6 bikes and gear weighs less than my Dually Pick-up Truck alone, that's what didn't make sense to me about the permit, the per axle weights would be far under max posted for roads. I can understand a permit for excessive weight or the TOTAL combined length as you have, but just saying that a trailer 28' or over needed a permit seemed pretty stupid since it says nothing about the overall combined length and the most important thing (weight) wasn't apparently a factor. :err:
Ok Mongo
Or what ever your name is. I'm sorry I offended you; you're a real tough guy I can tell from your key strokes. :ahhh: You're very intelligent as well I can see that from your wonderful use of words. At least I don't have to hide behind a fake name so I can pretend to be tough on the internet.
The reason for the PM was to save you from making more of an ASS of yourself in public. But I guess if you're a dumbass then there is no sense trying to hide it. I'm sure everyone here already knows anyway.
If you have an attitude like that in the real world face to face with people, then I'm sure your all for laws. Especially the ones that say it's against the law to kick some one ass. Because without that one you would be hurting most of the time I'm sure. But just remember one thing; some people don't care about the laws.
Oh I know what you're thinking. That you would like to make some threat like "I'd kick your ass if you weren't some anonymous guy on the internet"
Well I use my real name and race number for a screen name. Because I stand behind my words on the internet as well as every where else. I have nothing to hide from anyone. So go ahead make the treat..... go ahead I'm waiting....... That's what I thought. :jerkoff:
Brett Ray
West Frankfort, IL
618-937-6767
I will be at Daytona as well as some MW and SE CCS races and Moto-ST.
If I were you I'd just drop it now. I'm not going to respond to you any more on the internet anyway.
Again I'm sorry everyone he obviously didn't read my whole story. By standing up for what was right I DID get the law changed.... But if there is one thing I can't stand its arrogant ignorance.
Ummm, Brett, my name and who I am is in my sig line on every post.
My last response was to your PM. Not to any subsequent posts. I may read them later, I may not. If I feel like responding to them then I'll do so.
Might want to try reading the entire post yourself.
Mike - honestly I agree weight would be a better way to do it. I think that probably our stuff being a little over length isn't what they're looking at but the line does have to be drawn somewhere. The $20 is barely enough to cover the cost of processing the permit so they're not trying to really get any money out of us. I think it's partially because they do need length limits or else people would get truly stupid and partially we're just caught by a law that is really intended for much longer vehicles.