Does any body remember what those approximate lap times were last year? I'm thinking 1:18 for SS and possible 1:15 for SB. Trying to come up with some quick change items to transform my essentially SS 1st gen SV to an SB (Yeah, Yeah I know improve your D!@#$%%% cornerning speed). Given that I cannot ride at this time a year, I can spend time/effort on the bike preparation.
Steve,
Among the yellow plates I don't think there was any difference in lap times between LWSS and LWSB last year. The same guys were winning both classes on the same bikes. While I didn't run any LWSS races I am fairly certain that Guy, Paul, Kevin & Julian were usually the top finishers in both classes.
I was finishing in the top 5 (generally 2nd or 3rd) in Thunderbike on my F2. In the only dry race I did on the Ducati I placed 2nd.
My lap times on both bikes were almost identical. I was running between the high 1:18's to the low 1:20's, entirely depending upon traffic. I was generally gridding in the very back and even with those lap times I was making it through traffic and catching up with the front runners. In clear traffic the times may have a bit lower ( really never looked to individual fast laps but was more concerned with consistency). I think the pace may have gone up a bit after the resurface of those corners late in the year, however, they certainly were not dropping into the 1:15's during any of the races I was in or I never would have been able to contend for podium spots.
I might be mistaken, but, I think that 1:15 would be a pretty good BHF time even in the expert LWSB or Thunderbike races (maybe not a win, but still pretty good). Personally, I'm going to be happy if I can run consistent 1:16's there next year. Hopefully that track will grow on me, but as of right now - I hate that place!
George
#773 - EXPERT!
The fastest I went period was 1:18.4 at BHF. I did it in SS trim. I must be slightly more comfy in SS trim because I never really went faster in SB trim. And like yes the times varied just as George indicated. Last year Dan Kane and Ryan Hall were running in the low to mid 17s in superbike, and neither one of them had great superbikes. I think that Dans bike was in the mid 80s for HP. So George is right there not being any difference in time last year. There could be next year if the right person shows up on a good superbike.
As far as expert times Ed generally runs a couple of low to mid 15s then slows down to 16s or low 17s in SS depending on the competition. In SB he has ran a 1:13.4 but he is generally in the low 15s.
Don't think about laptimes. Work on your skills as a rider and apply them against the pavement, the laptimes will come as your skills improve. You can run an 18 or a 17 and be in over your head to do it, or you can be like PJ or Gary Palmer, and run 16s all day long in a controlled and smooth manner. I am prouder of a well executed 1:20 than a sloppy 19 any day of the week.
if your running am., lap times really wont differ from ss to sb, seeing that the rider is much more important than the bike. I ran BHF a couple times this year, the 1st time me, tim lupirini (sp), and some guy on an aprillia were about 5 secs infront of the pack (and some GUY on a yellow bike :biggrin:) while the leader ran away from the 3 of us, forgot his name, suposedly a 3 year expert took a year off then came back am :biggrin:. We were running 20's every lap and we all registered at least one 19 sec lap. The next time I was there was the new pavement weekend and I never ran below a 21 and some GUY on a yellow bike beat most of us running dead consitent 20 - 21's. but anyway, sb vs. ss doesnt matter much in am. the same guys normally win both classes.
The lap record is a 1:09 and change on a 1000. About three quarters of a second back is the fastest 600 time. Weights for the bikes are similar, but the 1000 has about a third more power...for .75 seconds.
Chassis, chassis, chassis. Tires, tires, tires.
Ben, yeah, the expert that came back. He was an expert in 2003, very good too, and when he returned to Blackhawk, CCS required that he return as an amateur as per the rule book. He hadn't raced since early 2003.
Great answers guys! So it sounds like I just need to prep my bike really well in SS form (S.Dave will be checking out the suspension) , I will run newer tires (warmers) and get myself into race shape. My goal is to improve from last year - it would be nice to be comfortable in the low 20's- high teens.
Quote from: Super Dave on January 12, 2007, 06:54:57 PM
Ben, yeah, the expert that came back. He was an expert in 2003, very good too, and when he returned to Blackhawk, CCS required that he return as an amateur as per the rule book. He hadn't raced since early 2003.
yeah thats what I heard, I was able to run with him for a few laps but couldnt do much more than that, he was quick and un - amatuer smooth. funny thing is CCS wouldnt let my Uncle Jim come back as an AM. despite taking something like 8 years off.
When I was running amateur on an SV - I would have to look at my note - But I think my best time was an 1:17.2...... Don't hold me to it tho..... Although a lap of 1:19 for an amateur is fast - With a lot of the guys with yellow plates being moved up for next season - I would think that would be a fast time..... Just my two cents :)
IMHO competition has gotten tougher in LW classes. At those times, if these guys know how to handle traffic it looks like next year will tougher still.
Julian Soell won the Amateur LWSS, LWSB, LWGP, GT Lights and Thunderbike class championships last season on a stock Buell XB12R (with belt drive!). He won all of those titles in SuperSport-legal tune. And his average lap times at BFR were in the 19s, I believe.
I would focus on your bike set up and riding skills and don't worry too much about modifying your bike until you get your corner speeds up.
+1 on the LW classes getting more competitive all the time. The Amateur class varies year to year. But Ed's not getting any slower. As an expert, you have to run 15s at BFR just to keep him in sight. He pulled me into a personal best high 14 last year, but I'm sure he wasn't even breaking a sweat...
Nobody manages a race pace better than Ed. He just goes as fast as he has to go to win.
Wegman weekend I clicked off a couple 17s as my fastest with Mr. Bartz trying to catch me. Mostly ran 18s and 19s though. What was that kids name that was riding Mr. Stiles TZ250? I gave him a good fight in LWGP until about the 4th lap he got away from me and won the race.
I ran more consistant 17s chasing Hall and Kane the year before.
I still didn't score enough points to go Expert because my pocket book isn't deep enough to race enough weekends.
I'll have White plats this year anyway. It can only make me faster trying catch PJ and Mr. Key. We'll see what happens. I'm looking forward to it.
That was Chris Quilman on Mark's 250. Chris is quick. He'll be running expert this season.
Quote from: SCOTTY727 on January 15, 2007, 11:42:09 AM
That was Chris Quilman on Mark's 250. Chris is quick. He'll be running expert this season.
Nice Kid too. He was the only one that beat me that whole weekend.
He's a flat track racer rite?
He's done motard and played on the ice at the old Sportsmans Park, now Maxxx Motorsports (http://www.maxxxmotorsports.com)
Quote from: Super Dave on January 15, 2007, 12:07:46 PM
He's done motard and played on the ice at the old Sportsmans Park, now Maxxx Motorsports (http://www.maxxxmotorsports.com)
Truthfully that's really it - and the Motard was on small bikes - TTR 90's and 125's.... Nothing great......Now that I have complemented him this is where I would normally start to make fun of the guy... But since he doesn't come on here enough to defend himself - I'll just leave him be - Until this weekend at the banquet :)
Quote from: grasshopper on January 15, 2007, 10:49:19 AM
Wegman weekend I clicked off a couple 17s as my fastest with Mr. Bartz trying to catch me. Mostly ran 18s and 19s though. What was that kids name that was riding Mr. Stiles TZ250? I gave him a good fight in LWGP until about the 4th lap he got away from me and won the race.
I ran more consistant 17s chasing Hall and Kane the year before.
I still didn't score enough points to go Expert because my pocket book isn't deep enough to race enough weekends.
I'll have White plats this year anyway. It can only make me faster trying catch PJ and Mr. Key. We'll see what happens. I'm looking forward to it.
Chris Quillman is his name. He is a nice guy who is freakishly fast. He was running in the mid 16s form about the middle of the year!!
Now I'm wondering if Grasshopper will really get the white plates or still be around to ambush the true amateurs. Now if I could only line him up on the ice for a good check!!!
At least Mr Bartz won't be passing me on the inside the carousel, looking at me and parking it. He's got the honor of making me realize that fairing contact is not a big deal...Oh but wait a second. I may still have to deal with him if he gets fast enough to lap me during the GT races as Mr Key did last year. That was the way I judged my progress - first race ever - I saw the back of the Org... twice and at the end of the season, he lapped me once at the checkered!!
In all seriousness, I'm very appreciative of the support, advice, mechanical help many of you gave me during my first 4 races...
Hope to see all of you at the banquet.
Quote from: SV88 on January 17, 2007, 07:08:44 PM
Now I'm wondering if Grasshopper will really get the white plates or still be around to ambush the true amateurs. Now if I could only line him up on the ice for a good check!!!
At least Mr Bartz won't be passing me on the inside the carousel, looking at me and parking it. He's got the honor of making me realize that fairing contact is not a big deal...Oh but wait a second. I may still have to deal with him if he gets fast enough to lap me during the GT races as Mr Key did last year. That was the way I judged my progress - first race ever - I saw the back of the Org... twice and at the end of the season, he lapped me once at the checkered!!
In all seriousness, I'm very appreciative of the support, advice, mechanical help many of you gave me during my first 4 races...
Hope to see all of you at the banquet.
Hey, Hey, don't make it sound like I go bouncing off of people like a rubber ball. What I said is that light fairing contact with another rider should not put you on the ground and should not freak you out. I would not willingly ride that close to anyone whom I have not spent enough time riding with to know their lines and trust them enough not to freak out. And I still would not force my way into that position, sometimes during a race two people are trying to occupy the same space at the same time and can make some contact, it is not a desirable position because things can go wrong. I would also make sure that the other rider knows you are there by getting along side of them down a straight or in a turn where there is more room so you don't startle them when you are real close.
I have been racing light weight bikes for a couple of years now and I would say there are only a few other riders that I feel as comfortable riding next to than Guy B. Any time I have been on the track with Guy he has always been more than respectful when it comes to passing room and in brake zones. From what I have experienced, Guy only takes a pass when it is safe and appropriate. I would trust him riding next to me any day.
Yes, guys a good racer on the track. Just stay away from him on the street (he seems to have issues with traffic controll devices)! Oh yeah, don't lend him your car, at least not if you want it back in one piece.
Seriously, we had some really good races in the AM LW and Thunderbike classes last year. There were only one or two times where I thought somebody was getting overly agressive or in way over their head. Other than a those very few instances I thought everybody rode well and respectfully.
I'm looking forward to next year, hopefully some of us freshmen white plates can make it fun for the more experienced experts!
George
Quote from: George_Linhart on January 18, 2007, 05:08:40 PM
Yes, guys a good racer on the track. Just stay away from him on the street (he seems to have issues with traffic controll devices)! Oh yeah, don't lend him your car, at least not if you want it back in one piece.
Seriously, we had some really good races in the AM LW and Thunderbike classes last year. There were only one or two times where I thought somebody was getting overly agressive or in way over their head. Other than a those very few instances I thought everybody rode well and respectfully.
I'm looking forward to next year, hopefully some of us freshmen white plates can make it fun for the more experienced experts!
George
Thanks Kev and George!!! I don't think that Stephen was trying to slam me, but I did not want to have the contact thing misinterpreted.
George, You got bumped?
Let's fold our hands and pray:
Dear Lord Baby Jesus...little, tiny Christmas Baby Jesus,
We thank you so much for this bountiful harvest of new white plates in Lightweight classes. We thank you for their smokin' hot pretty new bikes that will boost grids so we old white platers can make contingency quotas. Please make Guy and the other crew of new white plates play nice. Make sure they at least show us a wheel before they come at us like a pack of rabid spider monkeys. And let them remember all the free tips and spare parts we gave them when they were yellow plates so they have mercy on our poor, old, scuffed up budget-constrained carcasses.
Amen
:preachon: :err: :thumb:
awesome. very funny. read this at work, laughing out loud with people looking at me like I missed my medication again.
No slamming (no pun) intended at all... Just having a little fun. I guess Guy is a little sensitive after all the abuse!!
But seriously, this is a good introduction to racing vs being taken down from behind like my son was at a mx practice at Lake Geneva Mx.
I found that I was riding over my abilities in the rain at BHF when I was being held up by a white plate. Should have been a little more patient instead of going down under braking for corner 6.
Quote from: SV88 on January 19, 2007, 10:26:11 AM
No slamming (no pun) intended at all... Just having a little fun. I guess Guy is a little sensitive after all the abuse!!
But seriously, this is a good introduction to racing vs being taken down from behind like my son was at a mx practice at Lake Geneva Mx.
I found that I was riding over my abilities in the rain at BHF when I was being held up by a white plate. Should have been a little more patient instead of going down under braking for corner 6.
I'm not sensitive about the abuse at all, it is all in good fun. I preach to people about being patient while riding / racing ( after all it is just a little block of wood, and bragging rights that we are competing for. not worth endangering anyone over). I was worried that your comment could have been interpreted as "I was dangerous or impatient on the race track" ( I am sensitive about that ). I understood what you meant but, this is a public forum and others may not have understood, so I went on damage control. I do make mistakes on the track, and they are just that mistakes. I do not intentionally take risky passes, although errors have put me in some risky situations. I work hard on my mind set before during and after being on the track, to keep my emotions in control. I try to apply "logic only" to riding. I have made errors at times, as to where I thought a pass would be complete. That is what happened when I passed you in the carousel and then, parked it in front of you. That pass happened later in the turn than I had anticipated, and it messed me up!!!
Quote from: dylanfan53 on January 18, 2007, 11:24:18 PM
Let's fold our hands and pray:
Dear Lord Baby Jesus...little, tiny Christmas Baby Jesus,
We thank you so much for this bountiful harvest of new white plates in Lightweight classes. We thank you for their smokin' hot pretty new bikes that will boost grids so we old white platers can make contingency quotas. Please make Guy and the other crew of new white plates play nice. Make sure they at least show us a wheel before they come at us like a pack of rabid spider monkeys. And let them remember all the free tips and spare parts we gave them when they were yellow plates so they have mercy on our poor, old, scuffed up budget-constrained carcasses.
Amen
:preachon: :err: :thumb:
Cook, you are killing me!!! Tooooo funny. You may have a future as an evangelist (in some strange definition of the word)
It seems like the expert lightweight class consists of the same 4 or 5 guys that are running at the top year after year after year. All the ones that could probably make a big dent end up switching to middleweight bikes. Hopefully this year we'll see some new faces in the top 5 eh?
Year after year...well, you have a really good core of guys that are "older" and committed. So, they are continually around. Average life of a road racer is two to three years, so they usually circulate out rather than move to middleweight where the tire costs go up so much.
Yes, I have been granted the honor of putting white plates on the Ducati. I look forward to helping fill the grid to make sure that it makes contingency quotas. There are some very good experts (hell, there were some very good amatures last year). I don't know for sure if I will be able to break into the top 5 - particularly at BHF (unless of course it rains); however, that won't stop me from trash talking on the board!
It is going to be a very fun 2007!
George
Quote from: Monkey_Star on January 19, 2007, 02:12:55 PM
It seems like the expert lightweight class consists of the same 4 or 5 guys that are running at the top year after year after year. All the ones that could probably make a big dent end up switching to middleweight bikes. Hopefully this year we'll see some new faces in the top 5 eh?
A friend of Lee Davis (who's name escapes me) summarized this phenomena in a nutshell. His statement was "lightweight bikes got no cred". Although I believe that middleweight classes are much more competitive than lightweight classes and the straightaway speeds are higher, all of the same skills apply to every class. But people tend to dismiss the fact that no matter what class you ride, it takes skill to be competitive. People say it is easyer to ride a lightweight than a middleweight, maybe that is true but, the separation in difficulty is much narrower than people want to believe.
I do think that it is tougher to win a middleweight race because the depth of talent in those classes is deeper into the field than lightweight. There is top talent in all classes, just more of them in middleweight.
Queation and answer form Jessie Janisch. What is the difference between lightweight and middleweight? "There are 5 Ed's in middleweight instead of 1"
I remember Jesse saying that.
Some classes just work better for some riders too.
I would agree on how some riders do not give lightweight credibility. But Jesse and Blake Young were capable lightweight riders before they got really fast on bigger bikes. There is always a lot to be learned that can be translated.
Quote from: EX_#76 on January 19, 2007, 02:03:26 PM
Cook, you are killing me!!! Tooooo funny. You may have a future as an evangelist (in some strange definition of the word)
Evangelist? Please no! I could use the extra dough.
I am thinking about having Bill recite that prayer at the morning rider's meeting. :thumb:
It will be an interesting year in the midwest... :err:
Think about it Don :rollseyes:, all you have to do is create you own religion, construct a Tabernacle, spread your message, then ask them for money... and its tax free!!!! :thumb:
WHoooHoooo!!!
Quote from: Monkey_Star on January 19, 2007, 02:12:55 PM
It seems like the expert lightweight class consists of the same 4 or 5 guys that are running at the top year after year after year. All the ones that could probably make a big dent end up switching to middleweight bikes. Hopefully this year we'll see some new faces in the top 5 eh?
I'll be in there next year. I can't show my face every weekend, but will be at a few this year with fresh white plates chasing Ed Key (Hopefully). And if its raining Ed will be chasing me, the moisture missile :thumb:
Mr. Bartz! It will fun racing with you again. Last Wegman weekend was the most fun I have ever had road racing in my life. Good times my friend, very good times. :cheers:
Mr. Cook , Mr. James, Mr. Moore... All the Midwest White plate lighweight guys. I look foward to racing you. :cheers:
Ya Nick it was a real fun weekend, you certainly made it interesting for me. Hopefully that new motor of yours is not too much faster!!!
Next season will be very interesting, All of us newbe white platers have allot of learning to do. I just want to have someone to ride with, sharpen my riding, and have some fun
Quote from: grasshopper on January 19, 2007, 11:28:29 PM
And if its raining Ed will be chasing me, the moisture missile :thumb:
There is just something wrong about that statement.
:lmao: