Considering switching to a reverse shift pattern next year...... I tried it out a couple years ago (3 track days in a row) and could never come to grips (after 4 off-track excruciation's and a lowside).
SO..... Those of you who have switched recently, How long did it take you before you were "really" comfortable with it?
half of a track day. I found it so superior I would never go back.
One blown motor. After that I never screwed it up again. :wtf: Sucks to learn, but it's a better way to shift for sure.
It took me about one full weekend too get the hang of it. Now after one season of racing it is basicaly second nature now, I dont think about it at all.
Never bothered... I've never had a problem trying to shift with the standard shift.
If you spent 3 trackdays trying to get used to it and couldn't, a race weekend certainly isn't the place to try again. I say forget it, there is IMO no significant advantage to it at our level.
It sucks when I ride my Z50 cause it's all down.... I almost crash every weekend on that damn thing...
QuoteIt sucks when I ride my Z50 cause it's all down.... I almost crash every weekend on that damn thing...
its that your old school lil thing with the SERIOUS clutch? yeah, I almost ended up on my ass a few times at MAM on that thing...
Didnt take me long. I look at shifting on the track different than the street. its a rythem moreso than a process. when I get to point X I do this, then at point Y I do this... only missed one shift at a TD first time I changed it over. I like the feel of it better, to me it has nothing to do with "clearance" issues. Just makes more sense...
Just think how fast Mat Mladin would go if he switched to GP shift... :rollseyes:
Quote from: tstruyk on December 15, 2006, 05:46:42 PM
its that your old school lil thing with the SERIOUS clutch? yeah, I almost ended up on my ass a few times at MAM on that thing...
Dat be the one. It really sucks when you're holding a rim/tire and you do it!
I tried it for half a track day and never got it so I don't even try to any more. A low side directly related to learning the shift pattern would have done it for me. Either you get it or you don't. And I don't.
started it at the beginning of the season, wasn't hard, only missed a few after something else happened, IE. save a highside, then up shift rather than downshift. now i ride customers bikes that shift normal without even noticing i am doing it, i still sometimes shift to 6Th gear while stopped at a light on normal shift bikes. PS make all your bikes GP shift,
I'd never run it at a race weekend until I'm comfortable, but I think I'll give it one more try early this year at a track day or two. A few years ago I was still young, dumb, and full of.... Now I'm just middle aged and full of if...
Quote from: rrrrrrrick on December 15, 2006, 06:38:17 PM
PS make all your bikes GP shift,
+1 on converting everything you ride. Makes it easier.
One weekend to learn, but you do risk a couple "oops" if you're as human as the rest of us. It's a PITA to have to think about if for the weekend but then it's as natural as ever.
It's harder to switch from an old english vintage right side shift. Try stabbing the rear brake instead of the shifter sometime. Yeeowch!
Quote from: dylanfan53 on December 15, 2006, 10:09:44 PM
It's harder to switch from an old english vintage right side shift. Try stabbing the rear brake instead of the shifter sometime. Yeeowch!
:lmao: I know exactly what you mean there, I've stabbed the brakes trying to shift more than once on my Duc 200SS :banghead:
I believe Kevin Schwantz was another great rider who used standard shift pattern.
After 39 years of standard shifting, I tried to become comfortable using G.P. shift pattern, it was difficult at first, and stayed difficult. I could do fine on the street just easing around, but had to think about what I was doing the whole time, I could not just "do it" without thinking about it.
Problem was we had a race coming up at Daytona, the Moto- ST 8 hrs. My team mate could do GP shift, but not standard, so I tried it, but decided in the end that Daytona was no place to have to deal with that issue.
So we decided to change the shifter at each rider change, this worked well for the first few stops, but the shifter became stripped, I had to ride my last few stints with the GP shift, baptism by fire .
I think I could have done better with the GP shifting if I was fresher, but was tired and it was dark and many other issues going on.
I was glad to see the checkers in that race, I was done and found myself struggling to remember to shift the other way.
I had a 1971 Sportster that had the brake on left, shift on the right, that was just wrong.
I'd like to thank Larry Dodson for his commitment to that event, he was fast and on the gas, and kept us in that race!
What is the reason Mat Mladin doesn't use GP shift? I have a guess.
its what ever works for you
i use standard shift and never had a problem
i can use gp shift but dont like it
i think madlin had a injury to his foot in the past thats why he uses standard and so dose alot of other people that are famous and win
schwantz always used std shift. though I still support gp. But its obviusly not a case of being fast or slow, look at Hall. Though I do wonder how you do it Hall, I of course dont know how you gearing works, but for instance, coming out of the carousell at BHF heading torwards the bus stop, im still leaned over and weighting the outside peg with the middle of my foot when I have to roll my ankle forward and tap my shifter down to get another gear, what do you do in situations like that?
i think both have advantages, but for me as others have posted im too set in my ways to switch to GP. I tried once and all was good until i took my mind off of shifting and got into traffic. Went the wrong way on a gear change and ended up looping the rear end out and crashed. 2 dirt bikes, 1 supermoto, just have no intrest in swiching from standard. Never think about it, never have a false neutral.. good enough for me
Quote from: MELK-MAN on December 16, 2006, 11:10:24 PMNever think about it, never have a false neutral.. good enough for me.
Same here. I ride too many different bikes to make me want to switch over to GP pattern. I can't think of any instance where I've felt steet shifting has somehow slowed me down. Sometimes it's hard to find endurance teammates who can ride street shift pattern though.
I use GP shift for RR and regular for other stuff.
I can also drive a three on the tree, a three, four , five , and six speed on the floor along with automatics and semi automatic transmissions.
You learn what you and the bike needs, you execute it. But GP shift is efficient in that the large calf muscle allows you to get positive upshifts without hesitation. Downshifting? Well, actually, the engine is not a brake, so if you mess that one up, you'll have a chance to do it again.
everyone was telling me how it was the only way to go so i tried i tried GP at one race weekend (one day of practice) and had no problems the whole weekend. but at that track (Gateway) i think there were 2 turn i would have rather had STD pattern.
Then I added a quickshifter to the GP linkage and the next race weekend I was blowing downshifts all day in practice. to the point I almost ran off the track a couple times and took someone with me.
i even was f***cking up a couple of upshifts w the QS. ???
in retro spect, the lever was ajusted a little too high, but in the heat of the moment between first practice Sunday and the first race I pulled off the QS and went back to STD. NO problems shifting and i ran good all day.
so for me std what i have used my whole life and i will stick with it.
As to Mladin, he actually goes on at length about std vs gp pattern at the end of an interview @ www.onthrottle.tv (click on the track bike and scroll down to it). Quite convincing logic and a great little interview to boot.
Quote from: Jason748 on December 15, 2006, 03:56:24 PM
Considering switching to a reverse shift pattern next year...... I tried it out a couple years ago (3 track days in a row) and could never come to grips (after 4 off-track excruciation's and a lowside).
SO..... Those of you who have switched recently, How long did it take you before you were "really" comfortable with it?
I flipped my street bike first. I liked it right away, got used to it in about 30 miniutes, never looked back
I switched last summer after riding a customer's bike at a trackday. I didn't want to mess with switching the shifter since it wasn't quick and easy. I rode a few laps nice and easy getting a feel for the bike and shifting. I progressively got faster and found that I didn't have much trouble. Coming out of the corner I would just put my foot over the shifter so I was ready for up shifts, and going into the corner I just put my foot under the shifter. I also kept telling myself 'down is safe' that way if I got into a panic situation I knew which way to go.
Now I ride both types all the time-I can't switch my motard to gp, so I just ride it. Same with dirt bikes. I think once you learn you just adapt to whatever style you need at the time, but I do think GP is easier on the roadrace course.
My first street bike and first race bike were both 2000 GSXR600's, so I just set them up the same. I think since I didn't have much riding experience when I started racing helped with the transition. Racing motorcross with the STD pattern hasn't been a problem either. I think because the bikes are ridden so differently. There are tracks where I need to shift mid corner and there's no room to get my foot under the shifter. Not a problem with the GP shift pattern.
Quote from: KC_124 on December 19, 2006, 09:49:03 PMThere are tracks where I need to shift mid corner and there's no room to get my foot under the shifter.
Must be those clown feet you have, Kevin.
You know what they say...
Big feet...big...
Boots.
I curious why some think the reverse pattern is better? I due understand the left turn clearance thing, but what else makes it better for you?
Quote from: Jason748 on December 19, 2006, 10:41:31 PM
I curious why some think the reverse pattern is better? I due understand the left turn clearance thing, but what else makes it better for you?
It think that I can upshift faster with a gp pattern, and the shifts are more assertive.
Whenever I am at VIR I have timing problems with STD shift. I tried the GP but couldn't get used to it because it was one more thing to think about. I think I have those timing issues figured out and the season ends so I have to start all over again.
Aww Man we had like a 10 page ordeal on GP shifting last winter. It's deja vu all over!
I'm all about standard shift pattern. Have no problems running it whatsoever. I have my reasons as to why it is better than GP. I explained it all last winter. Dig it up somewhere in a search.
I'm going to find a link somewhere on here.
GP was probably originated when guys where dragging their boots on the ground because of improper ground clearance since adjusting chassis ride height was rare in the olden days. So a easy fix was to flip the shifting mechinism.
Thats the only so called advantage I have ever heard of to shifting GP style. Well my boots don't drag & of all the track I've been at my boots don't hit the asphalt so why change my pattern after I have been using it standard way since I was 5 yrs old! Natural instinct in my brain during quick reaction times of shifting to shift standard pattern.
My shift pattern is good enough for the times I run!
It's up to you what you want to do. Shift with your hands for all I care. Standard works for me great!
My post from last winter on this topic:
My reasons for using regular style shifting have nothing to do with making gear changes. It's more about weight placement on the pegs at certain times on certain tracks. Some downshifts have to be made too quickly right before you throw the bike to the right after making a left sweep.
Now I don't know how you turn your bikes but it hard to turn it with only your heel on the peg instead of the ball of your feet. Something taught to everyone their first day in roadracing school. When I tried GP shifting I couldn't get the bike turned in as quick and I didn't have control of the bike because I had to get my foot back over the shifter and positioned onto the peg. It's easier to slide it straight back than to pull it out from under the shift pedal. Either way the shifting part isn't a problem. It's the placement of the foot after the shifting is done.
If your shifting while cranked over through a left hander you shouldn't be shifting at that time anyways and if you absolutely must try shift up one gear prior to that spot. Or maybe your hanging off the wrong way on the bike which 80% of all regional level riders do. Get the weight to the inside and get the bike to stand up more through the turn.
Maybe you ride different than I do so maybe you like it better GP Style. But think about all the little things that get affected if you do change. Not many guys look into stuff like that. You need to kind of be a complainer to yourself while on the track. If you don't like something fix it to work better to suit your needs. Don't just sit on the bike and ride it for what it is. Make it what you want it to do.
There are many other instances where I like regular style shifting better because of weight placement on the pegs. I can give specifics but you might not ride like that so it might not bother you. Do what works for you. Just because most GP guys do it doesn't mean it's better. Think outside the box. Don't assume cause everyone else is doing it you should too.
I have had very close calls to ending my racing career because of shifting the wrong way while trying to change over. I almost took out many people several times. Imagine coming out of the old kink at Road America and shifting down instead of up with a freight train of guys behind you!! I got bumped and sent 2 guys into the grass. The whole time I didn't know which way to shift to correct it. I got confused. Once you develop an instinct it's sometimes embedded in your brain to do something when you think a certain way. Like quick reaction timing you just do what natraully comes to you. Now shifting normal pattern since the age of 5 and racing since 5. It's hard to change.
Ever hear of the street guy who hits someone head on while actually trying to avoid an accident. It happens all the time. It's because his natural quick reaction timing is to steer away from the accident because that's whay you do in a car is to turn away from the accident. So he actually countersteers right into it. Thats what its like for someone to change after doing it for so many years.
All I've got to say is I'm much happier shifting normal style and its relaxing to me not having to think about it. If you can overcome that go for it. But like I said don't think if you have GP shifting that everything is going to be perfect. Nothing's perfect unless its a woman. Sorry ladies had to do it.
Quote from: PJ on December 19, 2006, 09:58:47 PM
Must be those clown feet you have, Kevin.
You know what they say...
Big feet...big...
Boots.
Not true. I have big feet but I wear small boots. Go figure?
See you in St. Louis?
Quote from: Jason748 on December 15, 2006, 03:56:24 PM
Considering switching to a reverse shift pattern next year...... I tried it out a couple years ago (3 track days in a row) and could never come to grips (after 4 off-track excruciation's and a lowside).
SO..... Those of you who have switched recently, How long did it take you before you were "really" comfortable with it?
I'm a fan of gp shift. One of my first track days (before I learned to keep my toes on the pegs) I was taking a fast right hand turn. I had my weight on the outside peg with my toes over the shifter and accidentally down shifted. OMG, scared the bajesus out of me. I pulled into the pits next time around.
Plus I was always missing up shifts on the straights.
I went to gp shifting and loved it. I figured out that "For Me" the best set up is with the shifter just a wee bit higher than the foot peg. Makes it a little awkward to up shift till you get used to it being so high and different, but it makes up shifting effortless and it's super easy to slip your toe under it for down shifts. Plus my pegs are only about 1.5 to two inches long also. Which helps move my foot around also.
But that's just what I found works for me.
Quote from: J Farrell / Speed Tech Motorsp on December 20, 2006, 11:17:31 PM
My post from last winter on this topic:
My reasons for using regular style shifting have nothing to do with making gear changes. It's more about weight placement on the pegs at certain times on certain tracks. Some downshifts have to be made too quickly right before you throw the bike to the right after making a left sweep.
Now I don't know how you turn your bikes but it hard to turn it with only your heel on the peg instead of the ball of your feet. Something taught to everyone their first day in roadracing school. When I tried GP shifting I couldn't get the bike turned in as quick and I didn't have control of the bike because I had to get my foot back over the shifter and positioned onto the peg. It's easier to slide it straight back than to pull it out from under the shift pedal. Either way the shifting part isn't a problem. It's the placement of the foot after the shifting is done.
If your shifting while cranked over through a left hander you shouldn't be shifting at that time anyways and if you absolutely must try shift up one gear prior to that spot. Or maybe your hanging off the wrong way on the bike which 80% of all regional level riders do. Get the weight to the inside and get the bike to stand up more through the turn.
Maybe you ride different than I do so maybe you like it better GP Style. But think about all the little things that get affected if you do change. Not many guys look into stuff like that. You need to kind of be a complainer to yourself while on the track. If you don't like something fix it to work better to suit your needs. Don't just sit on the bike and ride it for what it is. Make it what you want it to do.
There are many other instances where I like regular style shifting better because of weight placement on the pegs. I can give specifics but you might not ride like that so it might not bother you. Do what works for you. Just because most GP guys do it doesn't mean it's better. Think outside the box. Don't assume cause everyone else is doing it you should too.
I have had very close calls to ending my racing career because of shifting the wrong way while trying to change over. I almost took out many people several times. Imagine coming out of the old kink at Road America and shifting down instead of up with a freight train of guys behind you!! I got bumped and sent 2 guys into the grass. The whole time I didn't know which way to shift to correct it. I got confused. Once you develop an instinct it's sometimes embedded in your brain to do something when you think a certain way. Like quick reaction timing you just do what natraully comes to you. Now shifting normal pattern since the age of 5 and racing since 5. It's hard to change.
Ever hear of the street guy who hits someone head on while actually trying to avoid an accident. It happens all the time. It's because his natural quick reaction timing is to steer away from the accident because that's whay you do in a car is to turn away from the accident. So he actually countersteers right into it. Thats what its like for someone to change after doing it for so many years.
All I've got to say is I'm much happier shifting normal style and its relaxing to me not having to think about it. If you can overcome that go for it. But like I said don't think if you have GP shifting that everything is going to be perfect. Nothing's perfect unless its a woman. Sorry ladies had to do it.
you talk waaaaaaay to much. you may not lead in post count, but I bet you lead in character count. sheeeesh :biggrin:
Whatever floats your boat. Six of one and a half dozen of the other. I still street ride, so everytime I ride a GP bike I am glad the owner of the bike didn't hear the noise that the motor made when I grabbed a downshift rolling on to the straight. I'm not smart enough to switch. I was at KSSS a few years ago and mentioned to Schwantz that I was going to try GP. He told me that I was nuts. I wouldn't go that far. Whatever works - Johnny
You think I talk too much huh. Well check out my post in riding skills.
:pop: :lmao: