Whats up, I have done Team Promotion track days, Conerspeed, and do some CCS stuff every now and then. On of my boys was talking about joining Nesba. Is it worth it? How do they stack up to the other east coast track day organizations (especially the ones metioned in the beginning)? A quick answer is all I need to know if I am NOT going to waste my money.
Thanks Paul
CCS #127
I was a member of NESBA and won't join again. Too many rules, even in the racer group. Most of the control riders (not all) think they are god's gift to the track. They seem to get pretty pissed off when you pass them, then call you reckless and dangerous...
Depends on what you want.
If you want a safe, structured, organized track day, STT & Nesba seem to be at the top of the list.
If you want a cheap run around the track with no cornerworkers or ambulance, you can look elsewhere. Not saying these are the ONLY safe organizations, just noting that they are 2 more prominent ones.
:pop:
http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=85472&highlight=STT+NESBA
I'm a control rider YellowDesmo..I think you may be making a blanket statement that doesnt include every CR. They just want a safe environment. And, if you're in the Advanced, then there are no CR's anyway. I have ridden TPM and there are people in the A group that belong in B...it was very unsafe
I didn't make a blanket statement, I said "not all". I've known several NESBA CR's that think because their a CR they are the best, fastest, safest riders on the track. They hade an arrogance about them that really turned people off. But that isn't the case for all of them just a few that made the rest of the CR's look bad.
I have friends that are CR's for NESBA and they are very good riders and don't carry around an attitude. It was the few that turned me off to NESBA completely. Perhaps I'll give NESBA another try in the future, but not for now.
IMO, and I am going by what I see and the way I am treated and experienced at NESBA trackdays. IMO, NESBA is #1 for trackdays. They run a tight ship on rules, but IMO, their tightness is for safety reasons.
On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the best, I give NESBA a 25!! :thumb:
Quote from: Jeff on September 27, 2006, 03:06:03 PM
Depends on what you want.
If you want a safe, structured, organized track day, STT & Nesba seem to be at the top of the list.
I think you need some sort of qualifiers or justifications to make that statement.
People respect what you say around here, and when you make such a statement, people are going to trust you on it. While I don't agree with it, how many are going to question it.
so if you would like to make that statement, I would love to hear your reasonings to put those 2 over the others.
I don't agree.
I think every trackday orgs have great days and bad days. And every org makes mistakes and try to correct them. They are equality good. Luck has more to do with how a certain day turn out. You can have a packed day without red flags, or some random day where you have more than 10 crashes in the first 2 rotations (from one of the orgs you mentioned) but you can't judge on that.
The difference between the orgs are custom service and business policies. You will like one's certain policy better, and some other's ones less. Thats just it. Go by dates. Try it for yourself. Would you let someone else pick a girl friend for you? You will decide what you like. Try each one and see.
Its an excellent track day org. Although some of the CRs drink a little much of the NESBA coolaide, they are very stringent in who they let into the advance group. Once your in it, you can count on a very safe track day with competant riders. They do have their own standards, and really don't care about your prior experience, they won't move you up until the CRs see you riding well.
Amateur race license holders start out in intermediate, I think it took me 1/2 a day to move up. Some peope get frustrated by not being moved up quickly enough, but my experience is they are very fair about moving riders up, but you must be smooth as well as fast. I'm pretty sure that they will waive an expert license holder straight into advanced though.
Quote from: cehoward600rr on September 27, 2006, 04:39:47 PM
IMO, and I am going by what I see and the way I am treated and experienced at NESBA trackdays. IMO, NESBA is #1 for trackdays. They run a tight ship on rules, but IMO, their tightness is for safety reasons.
On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the best, I give NESBA a 25!! :thumb:
I don't really get people's loyalty to trackday orgs... I would go by the date. Whatever's more convinient, I will go, regardless or how much or less I like an org.
Are you buying tracktime or hospitality? I am not getting it.
I'm with Dafan on this one (oh good god, did we just agree on something man?). First and foremost, I usually pick an org by how many dates they have in my area that I can make it to. It does no good to pick org-A if you can only make one of their dates while you could have made five dates with org-B. But if two or more orgs seem to tie in proximity and quantity, then my second criteria is which orgs my friends do, cause a trackday with a few buds is infinately more fun than a trackday alone. After that, ... oh screw it, just try them out and form you OWN opinion.
I've done Nesba, STT, TPM and Cornerspeed, and at some point in time I've loved each of them and at other times I've disliked a few of them (though I've yet to have a bad Nesba day ... but who knows, it might be coming still).
Every org is essentially the same at the bottom line... they get you on the track. Beyond that, it's up to your individual tastes as to who you'll prefer to ride with.
hey SBC its about to happen lol
Its about getting on the track, and everyone should do whatever they need to get on the track, with whoever. We each end up doing more with one over the others, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it works for everyone. That's the beauty of this country, there are choices and you get to choose them. Everyone will be happy somewhere.
So instead of advocating a specific org by telling you others suck, I advocate you just go ride on the track. It is the racetrack we are addicted to, afterall, I hope :D
I do like the strict rules for Beginner and Intermediate, especially for Beginner. You have very new people to the track who dont need to be stuffed or passed into corners. Just makes it safer and thats what Nesba tries to do. Riding fast in a safe, controlled environment. A lot of people have no desire to race a motorcycle, they just like and really enjoy riding on a race track in that environment. All orgs have good and bad, pro's and con's. I have been with Nesba since April of 2002, I have ridden TPM and Roger Lyle and Loudoun days at Summit. Never done STT, so I cant comment.
i agree with sbc and dafan. i do trackdays with tpm and nesba. i have praise and complaints about both orgs (maybe one more than the other). in the end, though, i'll do whatever dates work for me, regardless of the org. i'm not missing out on track time because i don't like one or two people in that org.
My $0.02.
For me it's most definitely not only about dates and convenience and, although I'd rank Nesba and STT high quality, others I've used are most definitely not equal.
It's about who's organized, who has services at the track that you may need, who has adequate staffing to make the day go smoothly, who can provide riding advice if asked, who can handle the unexpected and ESPECIALLY who has adequate cornerworking staff and EMTs.
In my experience STT and Nesba have covered that territory well. I've seen pretty awful, actually life-changing, outcomes at some other poorly run events that I attended because they were convenient to my location. It's not that I won't take the risk of running an open track day with only a couple cornerworkers and no EMT. Sometimes you do what you gotta do. It's just that I really feel more confident and have a better time when they're well run.
I'm not bashing any other org mentioned since I haven't run with some of them. They may do a good job, but there's more to it than the possibility that an org has a good day or a bad day. You can tell by the rider's meeting whether they've got their stuff together or not and that does affect my ride.
There are other trackday orgs that puts safety first, and provides even more services, conviniences, and care about its members/customers and have nice people around. Not just NESBA/STT
come to one of my riders meetings, or my racing school and then decide if we are organized or not :)
I have run (organized, presided over, not participate I mean) over 40 sprint races on 20+ days this year, and I have to red flag it one once. And very few people fall and I think there is at the very most, only 1 multiple bike accidents. I think my riders meeting and instruction to riders help.
Team Pro-Motion also owns and deploys its own air-fence sections. And a part of thier coaches' job is to interact with the riders and provide general help, thats why they are called "coaches" and not "CR's"
I am not here to advocate a specific org. like how I am usually taken as lol but when people keep mentioning NESBA and STT, I would like to say that I am as competent as my duties as anyone else in the world, and TPM have good people working the events, and attentions are put into providing a pleasant trackday experience, and safety is very important. Of course different companies will have different philosophies and specific rules, but the intention is the same.
I would like to think that I do a great job of putting on the races at TPM events, and I have helped 99% of people who needed help and have come to me, let it be mechanical, riding advice, dealing with injuries/mental issues, or just usual small things. And there are plenty more like me that's involved with TPM, and other trackday orgs.
Like I said, try any org with the right date. There are no angles and devils in this business. We are here to provide tracktime, and some are more organized and some are not, but you sort of pay for what you get. So the estabilished big orgs with 70+ days will charge more but provide more. But it is well worth it.
Try it. everyone is biased (even when I am trying not to be). so judge for yourself.
Thanks everyone for your input, this is great. I will be at VIR on NOv 6, 7 for the conerspeed track day, let me know if your gonna be there so I can meet you and personally thank you for the help, Paul
CCS #127
Must ... resist.... must not... comment.... must not.... AH HELL!
One thing that's confused me this year..... how does a Trackday organization host races for part of it's day, yet during the other half of the day tell it's members that "it's just a trackday" and discourage race-like behavior (stuffing, close passes, rubbing, etc)? Seems contradictory to me. (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fifteenfive.com%2Ffiles%2Fsmileys%2Fheadscratch.gif&hash=2fd97a8cb493cefb897711c9dfcefe931f494f9c) Though from the accounts that I've heard it's working for you all pretty well. Cudos to ya.
This just goes back to everyone having different taste in what they want from their trackday org. Some people like what TPM offers, others like what Nesba offers, or STT or Cornerspeed, or JoeBlow's Trackday.
Quote from: r6_philly on September 27, 2006, 08:33:10 PM
There are other trackday orgs that puts safety first, and provides even more services, conviniences, and care about its members/customers and have nice people around. Not just NESBA/STT
I'm sure there are and wouldn't hesitate to try TPM based on what you describe if it were in my region.
Although with my luck lately you wouldn't want me since I'd do damage to your good red flag record! :biggrin:
Quote from: sportbikerchic on September 27, 2006, 10:50:09 PM
Must ... resist.... must not... comment.... must not.... AH HELL!
One thing that's confused me this year..... how does a Trackday organization host races for part of it's day, yet during the other half of the day tell it's members that "it's just a trackday" and discourage race-like behavior (stuffing, close passes, rubbing, etc)? Seems contradictory to me. (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fifteenfive.com%2Ffiles%2Fsmileys%2Fheadscratch.gif&hash=2fd97a8cb493cefb897711c9dfcefe931f494f9c)
Quite simply because they are two different parts of the day. The rules of the race are stated at the riders meeting, and those who do not agree with them should not enter the race. If riders dont want close passing in the corners, etc. then they can just stick to the regular track day part of the schedule.
On the origional topic, I have experienced some degree of arrogance from the NESBA control riders, and it had nothing to do with safety. I arrived at the track a little late (ten after eight) and the riders meeting had just begun. I waited till after the meeting was over (eight thirty), signed in, and found a CR so that I could get tech inspected. He told me that since I was late I would have to wait until after lunch to ride, because he was going to go out for his session soon. I pointed out to him that there was still twenty minutes till the first session, which is plenty of time to tech a bike, but he still refused to do it, so I told him he was being a d**k. Admittedly, there are better things that I could have said, but I was very frustrated with his stuborness, and in fact I what I said was truthfull. He was being one. We argued a little more, and he walked away. After that, I found the guy who was in charge that day, and he agreed to tech the bike. At this point, the origional CR comes over and informs him that I called him a d, so the person teching my bike askes me about this. I explain that I said it, that I probably should have used some other words, but that the CR was not being very customer friendly. At this point, my experience got better, because he did tell me that I shouldnt have said that, but also did tech my bike.
I kind of remember that exchange being a little different. You called him a dick prior to him telling you that you could just sit until after lunch. Maybe he was being too IYF about showing up late. I remember that day and we did seem to have a ton of people rolling in after the riders meeting while most of the guys were trying to get suited up and go out for the first A session. And I think I even apologized to you at the track if he was. And you were a little more animated about the whole deal at the track than you are being here. Personally I just chalked it up to poor communication at the time. I was the one who teched your bike BTW.
Quote from: gsxrsrad1000 on September 27, 2006, 09:12:06 PM
Thanks everyone for your input, this is great. I will be at VIR on NOv 6, 7 for the conerspeed track day, let me know if your gonna be there so I can meet you and personally thank you for the help, Paul
CCS #127
+1 -- Aaron and Cornerspeed are a great org too, BTW.
I have to echo both what SBC and Dafan are saying as well. I get asked from time to time "what track day org is the best? Which one should I join?" Now obviously I am a bit biased, lol. But what I tell them is to join as many as they can and get as much track time as they can. Every org brings something different to the table - whether it's format, dates, tracks, promo deals, whatever - that makes themn slightly different then the other orgs. Some orgs are more appealing to others more than the next for whatever reason. But why join just one and limit yourself? Find the best two or three that "fit" your schedule and style accordingly and have fun. I know we aren't going to be that "fit" for everyone. That's the nature of a free market. And that is what is so great about having choices.
Ive done MCRA (multiple x's), STT (3x), NESBA (2x), Cycle Ops (3x).
MCRA is local, friends with all of the crew. I like that they check gear.
STT, Monty is a blast!!!!
Cycle Ops, same as the rest, 'laid back' in advanced.
NESBA, had fun. in 01 had CCS license so did advanced w/out issue. In 06 CCS license had expired a few years so due to their structure I had to do intermediate.
Spent the entire time going from one pack of riders to another....or getting stuck behind a CR till he turned around to see me aggressively wanting to get by. One slow CR didn't turn around for over two laps :ahhh: :ahhh: :ahhh:
It felt like I would snake through 4-6 bikes then run into another pack 1/2 lap later. Horrible time!
Was also difficult to get bumped up to advanced. Was obvious to me and several of the CR's I didn't belong in that group after the first go-round. Asked several CR's to bump me and they all just kinda passed the buck.
After lunch I talked to the top CR in intermediate...he followed me for a couple laps, then checked my bike for wire and bumped me up. Once in advanced it was as fun as any other trackday 8)
Quote from: gsxrsrad1000 on September 27, 2006, 09:12:06 PM
Thanks everyone for your input, this is great. I will be at VIR on NOv 6, 7 for the conerspeed track day, let me know if your gonna be there so I can meet you and personally thank you for the help, Paul
CCS #127
I will also be there. That's one of the best things, meeting people you chat with on the BBS. When it gets closer to the date I'll PM you to give you an idea where our group pits. We're normally pit in the middle row near the timing tower and the tech shed.
Speedballer - Sorry man, that should not have happened. Once you had signed up with us in Advance your status should have stayed Advance. We've started carrying laptops with WIFI cards to the tracks so we can avoind those type of situations. If you rode A with us in the past all we have to do now is pull up your information and verify and away you go.
Quote from: Dutch110 on September 28, 2006, 03:26:39 PM
Speedballer - Sorry man, that should not have happened. Once you had signed up with us in Advance your status should have stayed Advance. We've started carrying laptops with WIFI cards to the tracks so we can avoind those type of situations. If you rode A with us in the past all we have to do now is pull up your information and verify and away you go.
Man....was no big deal at all(!!!) Long gap between 2001 to 2006, impossible to expect any business to remember that gap. And again, who cares....I had fun in the morning passing people, no fun late morning, then had a blast in the afternoon.
I'll be back
Quote from: sportbikerchic on September 27, 2006, 10:50:09 PM
Must ... resist.... must not... comment.... must not.... AH HELL!
One thing that's confused me this year..... how does a Trackday organization host races for part of it's day, yet during the other half of the day tell it's members that "it's just a trackday" and discourage race-like behavior (stuffing, close passes, rubbing, etc)? Seems contradictory to me. (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fifteenfive.com%2Ffiles%2Fsmileys%2Fheadscratch.gif&hash=2fd97a8cb493cefb897711c9dfcefe931f494f9c) Though from the accounts that I've heard it's working for you all pretty well. Cudos to ya.
This just goes back to everyone having different taste in what they want from their trackday org. Some people like what TPM offers, others like what Nesba offers, or STT or Cornerspeed, or JoeBlow's Trackday.
NO ONE said "it is just a trackday" where did you get that from? those half day racedays are called "GP Moto Premier Racing Event".
And how do you keep bad stuff happen? through rules and enforcement. You tell them the rules and you enforce it. If the people running the trackdays are doing their jobs then they will behave.
It has worked out for TPM, for me. Come to my riders meeting. Listen to how I cover the racing portion. Take my race school here what is the FIRST THING I tell my students.
Educate them right and they will do the right thing, and have the rules and enforcement to back it up.
That's why I try not to advocate any org. if you do the job, it will be fun and safe no matter who is running the day.
I want to repeat again. If the participants don't do what you want them to do (no rubbing, kicking, stuffing, inside pass etc) then you have LOST YOUR CONTROL on the day. Then it is time to reorganize, rethink how you run the day and try again!
When there are a lot of inside passes, you dont continue to run the day. you stop and have a meeting and warn everyone that if they get caught they sit out a session. You do something about it. You don't just let it go.
remember who is running the day and who is riding the day. I can't believe you just asked me that? if you can't get your riders to do what you want them to do you may as well quit running trackdays because you are not doing your job. I do mine very well, I believe, and the days run very well :)
Quote from: gsxrsrad1000 on September 27, 2006, 02:42:02 PM
Whats up, I have done Team Promotion track days, Conerspeed, and do some CCS stuff every now and then. On of my boys was talking about joining Nesba. Is it worth it? How do they stack up to the other east coast track day organizations (especially the ones metioned in the beginning)? A quick answer is all I need to know if I am NOT going to waste my money.
Thanks Paul
CCS #127
Do you race? What do you mean by "doing CCS stuff."?
My limited experience with NESBA and other orgs. her in the MW is what I've made of it. It was the NESBA Tech. guy that pointed out all the loose hardware on my bike at Road Am., as it was fresh out of a tuner's shop where they butchered my bike. Turn 1 at Rd Am is 100mph+; Every piece of fastening hardware on the front end was finger started except for the axle bolt. Owner of said tuner shop told me EXPLICITLY..." Don't f#*k with any of the goddamned settings! Too many morons start fiddling with all the adjusters before they get used to their new suspensions. Leave it the f*&k alone!" So I did. I just did not believe a $2200 suspension makeover would come with a bag of loose bolts!! My screw up. Anyway....
NESBA Tech. guy, the day you guys did at Rd Am. before CCS opener, I owe you a case of whatever you want!! T1 @ 100 mph or any other high speed corner there could have put me in hospital or the ground. He saved my stupid ass!! Any trackday org. is probably started by one or two people who have a passion for the track. What you make of it is the key!
Quote from: Dutch110 on September 28, 2006, 10:53:40 AM
I kind of remember that exchange being a little different. You called him a dick prior to him telling you that you could just sit until after lunch. Maybe he was being too IYF about showing up late. I remember that day and we did seem to have a ton of people rolling in after the riders meeting while most of the guys were trying to get suited up and go out for the first A session. And I think I even apologized to you at the track if he was. And you were a little more animated about the whole deal at the track than you are being here. Personally I just chalked it up to poor communication at the time. I was the one who teched your bike BTW.
I had no reason to call him that until he told me that I would not ride until after lunch. People that know me know that I do not just go spouting off for no reason, and in fact that is the only time that I have ever called someone a bad name at the track. I definatly was somewhat animated at the track, because I thought he was being very unreasonable. It is hard to replicate that level of animation on the bbs, and time has passed anyway, so I really dont have a reason to be that animated about it any more. I will say, that was the only negative experience that I had with nesba, and I have had fun riding with you guys. That was just an isolated incident with one person with a bit of a chip on his shoulder. I agree with all who have said that I mainly pick which trackdays I go to based on my schedule. I do prefer TPM days, but have and will ride with many organisations including NESBA.
All big track day organizations have the same possibilty of running into a bad apple due to the amount of people needed to run a day. However, there is no excuse for poor customer service on the clerical end and that`s where NESBA suffers. Man, whoever is supposed to be on the other end of that phone number/email address sucks! If you have an issue signing up or a question regarding a license purchase etc etc you can forget getting ahold of anyone and if you do the question won`t be answered or you`ll get mocked! This has happened too many times to too many people for the cases to be isolated. Garth is a great guy though. He seems to know these issues exist and does a good job of smoothing over when you get there!
STT`s Bonnie and Monte are second to none in the customer service dept!!!
Quote from: steelcityracer on September 29, 2006, 10:32:22 AM
I had no reason to call him that until he told me that I would not ride until after lunch. People that know me know that I do not just go spouting off for no reason, and in fact that is the only time that I have ever called someone a bad name at the track. I definatly was somewhat animated at the track, because I thought he was being very unreasonable. It is hard to replicate that level of animation on the bbs, and time has passed anyway, so I really dont have a reason to be that animated about it any more. I will say, that was the only negative experience that I had with nesba, and I have had fun riding with you guys. That was just an isolated incident with one person with a bit of a chip on his shoulder. I agree with all who have said that I mainly pick which trackdays I go to based on my schedule. I do prefer TPM days, but have and will ride with many organisations including NESBA.
No worries dude. These things happen. Hopefully we'll see you back out there again.
Mr. Steelcityracer,
I am the guy you are slamming. Let me recount the conversation between us and you may tell me EXACTLY what is the truth. You asked if I would tech your bike WHILE the beginner riders meeting was being given.I participate in the Beginner riders meeting as I am an assistant director. I said " I will not tech your bike now and because you are late this will means you will miss THE FIRST SESSION." I did not say after lunch and I did not say that I would not do it. After you called me a DICK you just lost any frequent flyer miles that you may have earned! I found it rude on your part to come under the canope while a director was giving instruction on how the day was going to proceed and expect me to give you VIP treatment. Im sorry I come off as a prick but I believe in being on time and following rules. I am not mad about this exchange and welcome you back to any event. Let's just ride wheather you are a trackday rider or someone using NESBA for race practice. Jason Crisamore NESBA Mid-Atlantic Assistant Director
Quote from: Jason Crisamore on September 29, 2006, 07:49:58 PM
Mr. Steelcityracer,
I am the guy you are slamming. Let me recount the conversation between us and you may tell me EXACTLY what is the truth. You asked if I would tech your bike WHILE the beginner riders meeting was being given.I participate in the Beginner riders meeting as I am an assistant director. I said " I will not tech your bike now and because you are late this will means you will miss THE FIRST SESSION." I did not say after lunch and I did not say that I would not do it. After you called me a DICK you just lost any frequent flyer miles that you may have earned! I found it rude on your part to come under the canope while a director was giving instruction on how the day was going to proceed and expect me to give you VIP treatment. Im sorry I come off as a prick but I believe in being on time and following rules. I am not mad about this exchange and welcome you back to any event. Let's just ride wheather you are a trackday rider or someone using NESBA for race practice. Jason Crisamore NESBA Mid-Atlantic Assistant Director
I believe that when a customer paid $165 to buy tracktime he or she shall receive $165 worth of tracktime and the lack a dedicated tech person should not be the reason why someone should miss their sessions.
Yes trackday starts at 8 sharp. But it is not a race, it is not a job, you should be able to show up any good ole time you wish as long as you don't 1. ask for a discount 2. disrupt other customers.
You work for NESBA. Your #1 role IS and SHOULD BE to serve your customers. So if you have to miss your tracktime, or don't go to bathroom right away, or put down your coffee (whatever the case is) you should go and tech your customers bike so he or she can get on the track. Who are you to punish your customer for showing up late. THEY are paying YOU.
The only exceptions are:
1. rider meeting is going on, then yes they should not disrupt, but you were not giving the riders meeting, what do you mean "participate"? I hardly can believe he got in the meeting, drag you to the side and say "tech my bike". And why didn't you mention the riders meeting to him? But it is only the beginners meeting, and you were not conducting it anyway right?
2. you have another job to do, in which case you shouldn't be at tech doing tech anyway, tell someone else to do it. But don't tell customer you have to wait. find someone to do it. Tell him to find someone else to tech. Your answer dictated that you are doing tech, however you are not willing to do it right then.
This whole thing wouldn't have happened if you have someone manning tech all morning (dedicated) and who isn't unwilling to work.
First off, I am a volunteer. Second our riders manual informs members that if they are late they MAY miss their first session. At 8:00am we make an announcement that tech and registration are closed and to please attend the riders meeting. While the riders meeting is being given I speak to the riders at the end, so if a rider walks up to me under the canope infront of all of the other riders and asks if I can tech his bike, my reply is "after the riders meeting". This guy called me a DICK! By the way, he has since said he was sorry for calling me a dick and Im not mad at him any longer. We did tech his bike and he did ride. I chimed in because he dug up this year old incident to to make a negative statement about our entire organization. Again, we are all volunteers and we can be human too. When I get up early and need to insure that we do a good job of getting everyone on the track on time, it can be stressful. We need to be structured and organized so the day flows well. I hope this clears up your concerns. Jason
NESBA can be a great org. I've seen it help a lot of slower guys get out on the track and learn. Garth is a pretty cool guy... but I can't say the same for their entire staff. Lots of egoes running around the CR pits. It really seems like the slower the CR, the bigger the ego. Garth and Matt have always been cool to me and both of those guys ride really well. They probably don't have anything to prove unlike some of the others.
Regarding the tech story above: I have a similar one. Few years ago, Road America "racer practice day" (LOL) before the CCS weekend. Matt Drucker delivered my bike for me to the track because he just freshened up my motor for me. Unfortunately, a lot of bolts were misplaced between my bike and my teammate's bike (that's a story for another time) so I spent most of the morning sessions putting the bike back together. Finally got it over to tech after lunch, and the prick sitting at the booth refused to tech me in because "tech is over at 8:00 - where the hell have you been?" I explained that I was assembling my bike and just got it ready now... and he flat-out refused to tech me in, and told me to "get here on time next time." He then went into this long rant about how some day I might want to become a racer with CCS Midwest, and when I go out for my first race weekend and I show up to tech late, Larry will tell me the same thing and not tech me in because I was late.
I laughed, as I was already an expert license holder and was there to practice for that weekend's race. LOL. "Someday you might want to become a racer?" LMAO. Ok guy. Get over yourself. I knew Larry pretty well at that point and it was pretty funny listening to this chump try to name-drop. I wound up going over to Matt for my tech sticker. I haven't done a NESBA event since. I hope they're better here on the west coast.
Quote from: Jason Crisamore on September 30, 2006, 05:23:59 PM
First off, I am a volunteer. Second our riders manual informs members that if they are late they MAY miss their first session. At 8:00am we make an announcement that tech and registration are closed and to please attend the riders meeting. While the riders meeting is being given I speak to the riders at the end, so if a rider walks up to me under the canope infront of all of the other riders and asks if I can tech his bike, my reply is "after the riders meeting". This guy called me a DICK! By the way, he has since said he was sorry for calling me a dick and Im not mad at him any longer. We did tech his bike and he did ride. I chimed in because he dug up this year old incident to to make a negative statement about our entire organization. Again, we are all volunteers and we can be human too. When I get up early and need to insure that we do a good job of getting everyone on the track on time, it can be stressful. We need to be structured and organized so the day flows well. I hope this clears up your concerns. Jason
The "Assistant Director" is a volunteer? maybe if the org pays a few more people (instead of getting volunteers) and run the day more efficiently and have a TECH guy run TECH?
If the general riders meeting is not going on and I show up 20 minutes late and can't get my bike teched right away, I probably would think 3 times before I spent the money next time.
I was at a practice day 2 weeks ago. I got my bike together mid day, I thought about doing a session or two. I Went to the registration guy and asked if I could pay like $90 (a little more than half) and run 2-3 sessions. I thought the company was for profit, but they turned me away. Didn't really matter, I was just bored... but the point of the story is, a lot of people involved in racing/trackday biz are not really great business people. Quality people, perhaps, in all other aspects, but not good business people. customer first (or how about just money first)... I always try to say. but it doesn't usually take.
I obviously will never get you to agree. But here are a few more of the facts. We have 5-10 tech inspectors on duty WHILE tech is open. We announce that tech is closed until after the riders meeting and that we will re-open it AFTER the riders meeting. I sometimes do the riders meeting, therefore I will not be teching until after the meeting. We DID tech his bike and he did NOT miss a session. I'd say we did our job and dispite the little stand-off, its a done deal. Thank your for your overwelming concern for an issue that you were not involved.
I would actually like to say something about the original post. All clubs offer access to tracks that we all want to ride. If you are the rider that does not want to travel and only ride in your region, then by all means try everyone offering trackdays. But expect differences in the way days are run. At NESBA, I believe we offer a well defined program that does require riders to be evaluated before being moved up a class. I believe this gives more value to the disired Advanced class. Riders at the racer level should appreciate that our Advanced class will be filled with riders with a higher level of experience and skill because of the time they have spent learning skills in the lower classes and that is not to say that a first timer couldn't be the next Rossi, but better to be safe then sorry. I crashed my first day on the track. I was FAST enough to be bumped to Advanced but lacked experience so I learned the hard way.Thanks for reading, Jason Crisamore
Dear Jason Crisamore NESBA Mid-Atlantic Assistant Director,
Sometimes things happen in life which may cause people to be ten minutes late. Im sure even you have been ten minutes late. I was ten minutes late, and saw that the riders meeting was going on, and did not want to interupt it, so I waited until after it was over. I tried to find someone to tech my bike and unfrotunatly, you were the first one who I found. I asked you to tech my bike and you immediately started speaking to me in a very condasending way, borderline yelling at me, and telling me that I shouldnt have been late, and that I probably would not ride until after lunch. That is when I called you a dick. You looked stunned, so I said, yes, that is what you are acting like. I did not "dig up" this year old incident to speak negatively about NESBA as a whole. Someone started a thread asking about experiences at track days, and I told about a bad experience I had with ONE NESBA staff member. I did not post with the intent of discrediting NEABA on a whole. Dutch was reasonable, and sucessfully mediated a situation that really shouldnt have hapened in the first place. I also know many other cool people who are on the NESBA staff. Also, I did miss the first session, unless you consider riding the last lap of the session running the session. One last thing, the NESBA advanced class is no different than other track days advanced classes. It has riders of many different skill levels, and often varies from day to day. All of the advanced sessions that I have ridden with different organizations have at least a few riders that I lape every 5 or 6 laps. Thats no disrespect to NESBA, but just saying that it varies depending on who signs up for that day, and there will usually be a few slow/slightly less predictable riders in any organizations advanced group.
Sincerely, Henry DeLuca
Racer
I've got to say I've ridden with all of the orgs and choose to ride with Nesba these days almost exclusively. Their Advanced group is a step above the others for a reason, they don't keep the doors open letting people ride, they make people actually earn getting into the respective groups there and they actually have rules and enforce them. Man you mean they actually have rules and stick to them, now theres a new concept instead of stroking egos. They have a plan for a good track day and so far they are the largest and most successful longest running org out there, its a simple fact.....maybe they are doing something right? Their CR's are a step above the other groups clubs in this area (Mid Atlantic-Southeast) as well which when coming up they helped me the most. I've seen some of the other clubs coaches riding in Nesba Intermediate group (R6 philly that would be 3 of your coaches 1 just made it out of Nesba Beginner and yes that was recently and I know several others that are coaches elsewhere that didn't make Nesba CR) they were nice capable people but who would you rather have teaching and running the day? From what I've seen their CR's are approachable, capable people that truly love the sport and give back what they can to a good club..not just take what they can to get track time. Not all of them are the fastest people out on the track on any day but they are all Nesba A group riders that have not just ability but the intangables that make Nesba what it is. Nesba runs a track day not a race practice or a race day or even a school so they expect certain rules to be followed. This may be not what everyone is looking for but this is their product. It's not for everyone so there are others to pick from. When looking for a club try them all everyone has something a little different.
Quote from: r6_philly on October 01, 2006, 03:27:03 PM
The "Assistant Director" is a volunteer? maybe if the org pays a few more people (instead of getting volunteers) and run the day more efficiently and have a TECH guy run TECH?
If the general riders meeting is not going on and I show up 20 minutes late and can't get my bike teched right away, I probably would think 3 times before I spent the money next time.
I was at a practice day 2 weeks ago. I got my bike together mid day, I thought about doing a session or two. I Went to the registration guy and asked if I could pay like $90 (a little more than half) and run 2-3 sessions. I thought the company was for profit, but they turned me away. Didn't really matter, I was just bored... but the point of the story is, a lot of people involved in racing/trackday biz are not really great business people. Quality people, perhaps, in all other aspects, but not good business people. customer first (or how about just money first)... I always try to say. but it doesn't usually take.
Dafan,
You obviously have never attended a day I have ran. The last thing they are is inefficient. Ask our members.
If you would also go back and read everything that has been posted you would also realize that we make it very clear that tech and registration close during the riders meeting and will reopen afterwards. You can tech and register at ANY TIME during the day just as long as it is not during the RIDERS MEETING.
Thanks for your advice on how we should run things but I think we'll stick with the format that took us from a regional club like TPM to a national organization. Still run by all volunteers thank you very much.
NESBA been berry berry good to me. :cheers:
I like NESBIANS :kissy:
I've only run Mid-Atlantic but NESBA is definitely the most fun I've ever had on a non-race day...
:thumb:
The flip-side is that Dutch and the other Senior staff needs to admonish the CR's NOT to give anyone crap for "lateness."
It definitely does happen and it's definitely ALWAYS wrong and always unnecessary.
But beyond that I can only say NESBA is a great org.
:biggrin:
Quote from: Dutch110 on October 02, 2006, 02:51:14 PM
Dafan,
You obviously have never attended a day I have ran. The last thing they are is inefficient. Ask our members.
If you would also go back and read everything that has been posted you would also realize that we make it very clear that tech and registration close during the riders meeting and will reopen afterwards. You can tech and register at ANY TIME during the day just as long as it is not during the RIDERS MEETING.
Thanks for your advice on how we should run things but I think we'll stick with the format that took us from a regional club like TPM to a national organization. Still run by all volunteers thank you very much.
Dutch, I have never registered nor ridden at a NESBA day, so my comments are PURELY based on what Jason has said above.
I picked up the following:
- He was asked to tech, so I assume he was doing tech
- It was not during riders meeting, rather, it was during a "beginner riders meeting", so it shouldn't affect a non beginner rider
- If he was not assigned to do tech, I assume that there is no one else doing tech
I had nothing to add to this thread after your post, I think you had responded well to the issue, and all should have been forgotten. I only had something to say after reading what Jason posted. Jason, is not very good a customer service, and you are, I think you should continue to make statements for NESBA, and Jason should refrain :)
If you don't run a decent business, you wouldn't still be in business. I respect how you run your days and will never try to tell you that any other way is the better way. I may have suggestions if I ever attend one of your days, but I am too cheap to pay soooo lol
Like I suggested before, try everyone out and make your own opinions... and there are nice guys working and there are not so nice guys, don't judge the org on one person.
FWIW I haven't ridden with NESBA since 2004. The summer of 2003 I did 35+ track days. This was my second summer on the track and I was between jobs so I rode every chance that i could. As a beginning track rider on an SV in the intermediate group I found the passing rules to be a bit stifling. The structure was very rigid, and they seemed to have just as many crashes, if not more, than STT, the other group that I rode with that summer. The structure of the day was sensible. I believe the issue was with it's implementation. There was an overwhelming sense of arrogance from the control riders. I think that this attitude bred competitiveness in the riders. I understand that CR's are volunteers. I know that it is hard work for no glory. At the time it was intimidating. Looking back now I just don't understand why you would want huge ego's and attitudes dealing with beginning riders.
I can tell you what NESBA actually stands for: Negative Energy Sport Bike Association. Given that statement you know where I stand.
I know that is a harsh statement. Not all of the CR's were bad guys. But most of these guys had below average people skills. The guy who seemed to be in charge, I think his name was Garth, was always helpful and friendly. Overall the crew was very heavy handed. I always advise my beginning track day customers to steer clear of NESBA. If you are within 5-7 seconds of the lap record the advanced group is probably the fastest of the track day org's and the best fit for you. For a beginning or intermediate rider there are better options. Later - Johnny - CCS # 234
People know Garth. He's kind of important. He is a big deal. :biggrin:
Quote from: johnny scheff on October 06, 2006, 08:23:05 PM
I can tell you what NESBA actually stands for: Negative Energy Sport Bike Association. Given that statement you know where I stand.
:lmao: :thumb:
Chris, I have a check for you. Mailing address please. Later - Johnny
Quote from: Garth on October 08, 2006, 12:40:27 AM
People know Garth. He's kind of important. He is a big deal. :biggrin:
And Gosh Darn it People Like You!!
Some of my Favorite People, are NESBIANS!!!
Paul
Polar-Optics
NESBA MEMBER #3282......:)
Quote from: johnny scheff on October 06, 2006, 08:23:05 PM
FWIW I haven't ridden with NESBA since 2004. The summer of 2003 I did 35+ track days. This was my second summer on the track and I was between jobs so I rode every chance that i could. now I just don't understand why you would want huge ego's and attitudes dealing with beginning riders.
Later - Johnny - CCS # 234
I can't speak for Garth or his region during that time frame, so take that for what it's worth. I do think we had some folks in the CR position at that point in time that just did not have the best people skills in the world. I saw some of the arrogance you spoke of in my home region during the first few years I started out. But I also had some excellent teachers and tended to gravitate towards those guys. Back then the club was still small and you basically had the same staff at each event. We were only doing Pocono and Summit at the time.
Three years ago when I took over the MA region one of the things we openly discussed amongst the directors was the requirements for CR's. Back in the day it was the fastest guys who got the orange shirt. Well speed certainly is one of the determining factors but we realize it's not the only one. CR's are the first line of customer service and as such need to posess the basic communication skills necessary to deal with the members on the front line. They also need to have the work ethic to come out and do this job for little reward other than the gratification of their charges. But every one is human. We all have bad days. I certainly can relate to times I wished I would have handled things better or differently.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I can understand how you had the experiences you did. And that we recognized we needed to make a change in how we look at the CR role and how we select those folks.