under the collar! :ahhh: :biggrin:
Link to article (http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=26414)
Just wrote in what everybody else said...
I dont race there but crash fests are expensive anywhere,life threatening everywhere ,season ending for some who have put off many other luxuries like food rent etc to fullfill a lifes dream . If I planned to raced there i would be very glad or Jeffs heads-up!Well written,well meaning,Jeff :boink: :thumb:.John in NJ
But in the tracks defense, this was supposed to had been done before the LAST CCS event (from the way I understand it) and teh Asphault company kept balking and putting it off until it was convienent to them. If it was a scca or midwest council event the cars surely would had torn it up so bad it might had made them cancel any following event(s)
again... "what the hell were they thinking"
Would this make the track better or worse DURING the season?
The track could of said... "sorry, now is not a good time for us!"
Not sure that calling the owners "stupid" is the best thing, after all they did spend thousands of dollars trying to make the track better for us. That may have been the only avaible time to repave
I didn't call the owners stupid. I simply said that what was done at the track SEEMED stupid based on the time it was done and conditions it was done under.
I appreciate everything they do, but in this instance it did not make the track better. It made it worse. Will it cure and eventually be better than it was to begin with? I don't know. I have my doubts, but we shall see...
If this was the only time for a repave and it made conditions worse, does that make the repave acceptable? Seems to me that it would be a waste of money. Then again I don't own any tracks....
I agree w/ Jeff. I'm glad that they're willing to spend money, but I'd rather see them move a few walls or cut down some trees, or buy some airfence.
I was turning into T2 in fourth gear, taped, when I realized that the new pavement will ultimately make the entrance faster , but with the same bumps midcorner, and they didn't improve run-off.
I also think I'm getting older because I noticed that the walls outside T5 and T6 seem to be closer than I remember.
I guess the bottom line in my opinion is, I'd rather race a bumpy track with ample runoff than a state of the art, billiard-table-smooth polymerized surface with 15 feet between you and a helicopter ride.
I think there's always more risk loosing traction on rough surfaces vs smoother ones.
I couldn't make Friday or Saturday, myself, but my times on a very used race tire Sunday were fine.
The track surface temperature was 140. Should traction be the same at that temperature vs something that is a bit more regular? Obviously, it's not going to be as good as it would be had the temperature been less.
Crashes? Most are still caused by rider errors.
Quote from: Super Dave on July 18, 2006, 08:19:55 PM
I think there's always more risk loosing traction on rough surfaces vs smoother ones.
I couldn't make Friday or Saturday, myself, but my times on a very used race tire Sunday were fine.
The track surface temperature was 140. Should traction be the same at that temperature vs something that is a bit more regular? Obviously, it's not going to be as good as it would be had the temperature been less.
Crashes? Most are still caused by rider errors.
True to a point but the track was not as slick on Sunday but even so come on, youc ant say it was a good idea to repave that close to a race in the heat of the summer.
A repave that isn't during the summer would require weeks and weeks of inactivity.
When Blackhawk was repaved in 2002, it was done in November. It was able to remain idle for months.
As for a good time? Yeah, but what do you want?
I was already working around the bumps and stuff as it was. Most tracks seldom do fixes. I'm sure that the bump that bent Jeff's wheel while ON the track at Autobahn is still there. I'm uneasy about blaming work to make something better when there are some things that are ridiculous.
Scheduling? The staff and ownership of Blackhawk Farms set up two things to be done by a company very early in the year, March. They didn't show up. Track was shut down two other times this year. Scheduling conflicts and weather caused those opportunities to be missed.
Polymer asphalts, which are used at Blackhawk, are not the same mixes used in parking lots, etc. It's special stuff. And a contractor that can properly put the stuff down is actually going to have other work too.
I think it's funny that there's apparently no way to win. It's bumpy, it's slick, it's everything.
Quote from: Super Dave on July 18, 2006, 08:19:55 PM
I think there's always more risk loosing traction on rough surfaces vs smoother ones.
Agreed. But I would state that there's more risk of losing traction on a smoother surface with debris on it than there is of a clean rough surface. Such was the case this weekend.
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I couldn't make Friday or Saturday, myself, but my times on a very used race tire Sunday were fine.
If you could consistently put a wheel exactly where it needed to be in the race line of the corners, you would do fine. Most people cannot do that. Hell, most people can't do it within 12" of variance.
The top ULGP qualifying this weekend was all in the 12's. Had the pavement not been replaced, I would bet they would have been low 11's or high 10's.
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The track surface temperature was 140. Should traction be the same at that temperature vs something that is a bit more regular? Obviously, it's not going to be as good as it would be had the temperature been less.
I don't know that the track temp would have been significantly higher than any other summertime race.
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Crashes? Most are still caused by rider errors.
Absolutely. However, the variables a rider faces changed dramatically this weekend.
If a rider leaves the track and throws debris all over the exit of that corner, you come through it, hit the debris and fall down is this your error?
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A repave that isn't during the summer would require weeks and weeks of inactivity.
When Blackhawk was repaved in 2002, it was done in November. It was able to remain idle for months.
As for a good time? Yeah, but what do you want?
So if a repave not in the summer requires weeks of inactivity (during periods where events likely aren't even scheduled), how would a repave in the SUMMER with heat and constant traffic on the pavement be more acceptable? I don't understand how that would work.
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I was already working around the bumps and stuff as it was. Most tracks seldom do fixes. I'm sure that the bump that bent Jeff's wheel while ON the track at Autobahn is still there. I'm uneasy about blaming work to make something better when there are some things that are ridiculous.
Sure. We all work around things. And perhaps it's just me being hyper-sensitive because now I have to adapt to a new change at a track I knew very well. It set me back. Consequently it frustrated me. My question though remains one of was this the best thing to do? I cannot say with certainty, but from my perspective, it was not.
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Scheduling? The staff and ownership of Blackhawk Farms set up two things to be done by a company very early in the year, March. They didn't show up. Track was shut down two other times this year. Scheduling conflicts and weather caused those opportunities to be missed.
Polymer asphalts, which are used at Blackhawk, are not the same mixes used in parking lots, etc. It's special stuff. And a contractor that can properly put the stuff down is actually going to have other work too.
So does it make more sense to put it down when the track may become less safe and the pavement may end up in a far worse condition than it was before the repave? Or would it make more sense to wait until there would be adequate time to cure so that the pavement did not rip up and accrue pavement debris on the racing surface?
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I think it's funny that there's apparently no way to win. It's bumpy, it's slick, it's everything.
Just stating my opinion. As mentioned, I don't own any tracks. I understand the challenges they face in balancing safety/health of the track/customer service...