Motorcycle Racing Forum

Racing Discussion => Racing Discussion => Topic started by: Lowe119 on January 08, 2003, 04:16:01 PM

Title: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Lowe119 on January 08, 2003, 04:16:01 PM
Any of you read about the new Kawi 6R and 6RR?  The 6R has more displacement (637cc) and the double R is very limited.... So does this mean that we probably won't see any in middleweight CCS events?
I thought they said that the RR is limited to 1000 bikes produced. Do you think anyone but the pros will race them? Does this 1000 include the pros or do they get so many of the limited number to race AMA and World Supersport?
Supposedly they are putting out 123 hp at 354 lbs.

I'm just looking for comments....
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: skara on January 08, 2003, 05:27:44 PM
im looking to get one(6rr) right now my local dealer is getting one for sure possibly two he ordered six but kawi  said no way they are only guaranting one per dealer or so he said anyway list price is what he wants so  im not sure if ill do it or wait until next year to get one, other bad thing is looking at late march to mid april delivery
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DanO966 on January 08, 2003, 05:32:49 PM
Hey man,
I ordered up a 6RR but i'm kinda split right now, I may just race a 636 instead?  I'm a bit worried about the weak motor in the RR in stock trim.  And I really don't want to tear into the motor.  Well right now. LOL
I really think that It's gonna be a kick ass bike this year.  But we'll see, right?
Oh btw, the RR isn't that hard to get.  Smaller dealers might only get one or so. Kawasaki is going to bring in a bunch of them.  I got a whole bunch of them sold as of now.  The funny part is, I think that I'm the only one who's gonna race it.  Most (all of them but mine I think..lol) of them are going to street riders.  From what I've read and heard from Kaw you're probably be better off racing a 636...that's why I'm a bit split right now about the whole issue.  I'm hoping to get my bike anytime now tho.
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: skara on January 08, 2003, 06:03:16 PM
dan, i have the same idea the 6r (636) should be more reliable having run in europe last year it will be a little cheaper and it will keep you out of the mwss races all good things as i can see it only thing is id fit the slipper clutch out of the 6rr (should be trick)
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 08, 2003, 06:22:51 PM
How much are the dealers going to charge or are they going to auction off the bikes like they did with the rc51
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DanO966 on January 08, 2003, 06:30:37 PM
Hey Scott,
The only two things that are gonna be different are the slipper clutch(back torque limiter) and the adj swingarm.  I can live without both.  Oh yeah the motor....duh...
I haven't the rule book yet for this upcoming year but I think that CCs and WERA are gonna let the 636 run the middleweight classes.  I doubt that the AMA is gonna allow the 636 in 600cc supersport races.   :-/
Who knows, I'll just have to read all of the rules.  But that will make my final decision on which machine that I'm going to get.  
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DanO966 on January 08, 2003, 06:33:58 PM
QuoteHow much are the dealers going to charge or are they going to auction off the bikes like they did with the rc51
I'm sure that most of them are going to be getting retail for them.  But if it keeps getting negative reviews from the magazines, they're going to have to give them away...lol
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Super Dave on January 08, 2003, 07:34:43 PM
QuoteA
Supposedly they are putting out 123 hp at 354 lbs.

I'm just looking for comments....

That would be at the crank.  I wouldn't look for it to be making anything really out of the ordinary.  Will surely make good power though.
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: OmniGLH on January 08, 2003, 10:22:23 PM
Any comments from the CCS folks, or people in-the-know???

Will the 636 be eligible for MW classes?
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Super Dave on January 09, 2003, 04:08:01 AM
I believe that that displacement limits allow them no problem.
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Eric Kelcher on January 09, 2003, 07:37:36 AM
Okay yes 636 is legal for MW classes.

4 cylinder liquid cooled to 640cc
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 09, 2003, 10:03:36 AM
On the new kaws,in the rules its up to 640cc for any inline four liquid cooled bike. If you have a older model 600 are you able to bore the cylinders on the older models? and if that is possible, won't that make those bikes alot faster then the newer 636. :o Am I reading this right in the rules? can someone shead some lite on this foe me.   Thanks Joe #597 Midwest
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Eric Kelcher on January 09, 2003, 10:10:41 AM
you are limited in mods in SS see 6.1.2.E in particular (1.)

Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: sportbikepete on January 09, 2003, 10:44:11 AM
Just because you bore out the cyclinders does not make it have that much more power until you go add say higher compression pistons to the overbore which would not be SS legal. Yes you will get some more hp from an overbore but with stock compression pistons there is no way you will get up to the power of a newer bike with the same bore.
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 09, 2003, 12:21:32 PM
Ah thanks was never that good with the motors. So what could you do to the bikes that would make them capable to running with the new bike say the 636. Are they going to be that much faster?
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Super Dave on January 09, 2003, 01:14:03 PM
And if you make the bores bigger, the piston becomes heavier.  There's a problem.

And now the flame front has to travel a longer distance during the same time.  Sometimes, a bigger bore will give a bit more torque, but less HP.

The motor design really is what makes things different.  Fuel?  Have we talked about fuel?  You are what you eat...
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 09, 2003, 07:21:35 PM
Dave yes we did talk about ful last year and we were tring different thing if you remember.I guss ill just keep trying! will talk about gas when i come and get some this season.
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: K3 Chris Onwiler on January 09, 2003, 08:36:27 PM
BTW Dave, that would be Dru2, aka Joe, aka The newest Hustler!
K3
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: mstingray on January 09, 2003, 11:40:22 PM
cool to know that the 636 can be raced.  i think most posers on the street will want the 6RR (you might as well just sell RR fairings) but (budgeted) club racers will want the 636.

who knows.  maybe the biker boyz movie will give us a fresh supply of cheap 6RR.  ;D :D  cause you know everyone races the telefonica gixxer  ;)
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 10, 2003, 11:02:14 PM
hopefully real cheap.and i hope your right ;D
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: EX#996 on January 11, 2003, 01:21:48 PM
QuoteBTW Dave, that would be Dru2, aka Joe, aka The newest Hustler!
K3

Hey Chris....

Can I be an "honorary Hustler" ?

Dawn   ;)
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: K3 Chris Onwiler on January 11, 2003, 06:16:11 PM
QuoteHey Chris....

Can I be an "honorary Hustler" ?

Dawn   ;)
Sorry Dawn, but that position belongs to China, our track day girl and occasional racer.  Umbrella girl is still open!
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 11, 2003, 08:31:10 PM
 ;DYes that would be wounderful! ;D


Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: EX#996 on January 12, 2003, 08:53:50 AM
QuoteSorry Dawn, but that position belongs to China, our track day girl and occasional racer.

Darn...  Denied again!   :'(  I was going to try out for the Hooter's Suzuki team, but something about certain measurements kept me out.   ;)

All teasing aside, I hope China will make it out to a few more races this year.  I only had a few opportunities to talk with her, but I really did enjoy her company.

Dawn   :)
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: FastBoy on January 12, 2003, 02:57:45 PM
Don't forget the RR also has inverted forks and radial mount calipers...yummy!
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: skara on January 12, 2003, 04:46:09 PM
the 6r has the inverted forks and radial brakes also.
just the clutch and adj swingarm are diff according to the magazines i saw
it is also about one pound lighter
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 13, 2003, 08:20:25 AM
Hoe many kaws does everyone think that might be out on the grids next year (636)?
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Mongo on January 13, 2003, 12:46:08 PM
I'm curious how many dealers will really get of the 600.  Kawi seems pretty firm on only 1000 being brought in ad there are more than 1000 dealers....  M gut feeling is that it'll be like some of the other bikes, they let you order as many as you want but will only ship you a limited number.

There's no real point in getting one unless you're running AMA's 600 class.  The 636 will be legal for the 750 class.  
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 14, 2003, 05:15:12 PM
I thougjt it was legal for the midweight class too.Doesnt it say anthing up to 640 cc inline liquid cooled wouldnt that make the 636 legal in ss?
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Eric Kelcher on January 14, 2003, 06:44:49 PM
636 yes in CCS MSS

Mongo was mentioning AMA racing; Tommy Hayden plans on running the 636 against the 750's there.
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 14, 2003, 07:14:19 PM
Ahh , my mistake must of missed something in the translation :(
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 14, 2003, 08:06:13 PM
Hey , does that new 600rr have a dry cluch?
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Eric Kelcher on January 14, 2003, 08:23:58 PM
it is a slipper clutch and I think you have to be wet to slip  ;D
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 14, 2003, 08:30:29 PM
Transmission gearing and final drives are identical between the two models and, with the exception of first and second gears, both machines share shorter and more closely spaced ratios than last year's 600. Shifting and gear selection has been improved by way of a new shift-drum with reshaped cam pattern. For fine tuning requiring less pedal pressure, an optional shift detent pawl with lighter spring rate is available. As mentioned earlier, the clutches differ between models. The RR benefits from an adjustable slipper clutch using variable thickness spring retainers and shims. Slipper clutches help prevent rear wheel hop during extreme deceleration and harder braking conditions.                                                                         ;) The 636 uses a standard multi-disc wet clutch.  ;)    this is why i asked

Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 15, 2003, 10:37:50 AM
I was thinking about what u said about it haveing oil in it, that what maces it slip thats wrong. the super bikes that are run have dry cluches and they are slipper clutches
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: oh344ccs on January 15, 2003, 04:15:36 PM
I don't know how hard it will be to get the RR.  My dealer showed me his allotment sheet for the year, it says he will get 6 RR's, and 15 636's.  He told me that it was because of the number of units they sold teh last few years?????  Let me decide wether or not I want one then I'll let people know who the dealer is. 8)
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: EX#996 on January 15, 2003, 06:24:28 PM
QuoteI don't know how hard it will be to get the RR.  My dealer showed me his allotment sheet for the year, it says he will get 6 RR's, and 15 636's.  He told me that it was because of the number of units they sold teh last few years?????  Let me decide wether or not I want one then I'll let people know who the dealer is. 8)

Hey!

Weren't you the one on another thread complaining that your broke?   :o

Dawn   ;D
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DanO966 on January 15, 2003, 10:30:19 PM
QuoteI don't know how hard it will be to get the RR.  My dealer showed me his allotment sheet for the year, it says he will get 6 RR's, and 15 636's.  He told me that it was because of the number of units they sold teh last few years?????  Let me decide wether or not I want one then I'll let people know who the dealer is. 8)
LOL,
ok, if any of you want one, let me know.  I'll be able to get you one if you want.  :)
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Super Dave on January 16, 2003, 03:07:48 AM
That's fine.  You all can follow me while I'm riding something else...LOL!

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Eric Kelcher on January 16, 2003, 07:29:20 AM
okay news broke on another website regarding the number plates for ZX6R/RR so I will pass on what was said there. (http://www.cmraracing.com/mboard.htm) and decided at Bib Mac but Kevin may have different wording; this is my interpretation and notes.

Numbers are allowed off center, ALA Colin Edwards RC51, BUT if you do this the numbers must be on the scored side of bike only and NO numbers allowed on unscored side. The numbers used should be 8" if you can fit them, for 3 digit numbers you will be allowed to use 6" numbers. This can be done with any bike not only those that require it, ZX6R/RR is only bike that needs it; RC51 and R6 can be moved up above intake and placed on part of windshield.

So for instance at Gateway you would have numbers on the port side at Summit Point they would be on starboard side.

Center of bike as required previously is 100% legal, 100% of the time and is still preferred method.

Just a note to ease scoring matte finish numbers on matte background are easiest to score. Background color of Schoolbus yellow or pure white are best. 1" or more of seperation from number plate to paint job. If you have an all white bike(or yellow) then keep the stickers or decorations away from numbers. The number plate is supposed to have two things on it ONLY your number (with CCS approved font and size) and tech sticker.

Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: tigerblade on January 21, 2003, 01:52:28 PM
That's what I wanted to hear.  Thanks Eric!  :D
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Eric Kelcher on January 23, 2003, 12:04:14 PM
Here is the wording of the new rule 5.3.5
http://www.ccsracing.com/pdf/03FUSA_RoadRaceRules.pdf
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: oh344ccs on January 23, 2003, 01:01:42 PM
QuoteHey!

Weren't you the one on another thread complaining that your broke?   :o

Dawn   ;D
I am broke, that's why its a question of weather or not to get one. ;D
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: bikerider30 on January 30, 2003, 10:59:02 AM
Thought you guys might be interested in this info.  Just got done mapping the new 636 and R6.  The Zx636 made 106.8 stock with PCIII and the R6 made 102.4 stock with PCIII.  The 636 had 8 horse more at 8500 and 6 more at 10500.  Should have the ZRR soon!
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Omega_Racing on January 30, 2003, 03:07:20 PM
So your saying you put a pc3r on a otherwise stock bike to get those numbers?
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: gpconcepts on January 30, 2003, 03:13:31 PM
Re: I am broke, that's why its a question of weather or not to get one.

You mean if the weather is bad you might not get one? I'm really not sure whether the weather will make any difference regarding your decision. ;D
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Omega_Racing on January 30, 2003, 03:18:04 PM
Bet I get close to 115 with an akro evolution and no pc, I refuse to use those POS's.
TFI or teka only.
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DRU2 on January 30, 2003, 08:58:34 PM
By David Swarts

Kawasaki's 2003 ZX-6R (636cc) and ZX-6RR (600cc) models are currently arriving in dealerships, while race kit parts and racing contingency program details should be available in February.

Kawasaki's Mel Moore told Roadracingworld.com that the first production run of ZX-6Rs and ZX-6RRs were arriving in Kawasaki dealerships and that production of the homologation special, 600cc ZX-6RR has been increased to meet strong demand. Moore wouldn't say exactly how many RR-models would be produced but did say, "If someone really wants one, they should be able to get one."

As for race kit parts, Kawasaki Product Specialist, Accessories Division Jeff Hoeppner reported to Roadracingworld.com that race kit valve springs, velocity stacks, cam shafts, engine control modules (ECM) and thinner gaskets would be available in February although pricing information was not immediately available. Furthermore, it hasn't been determined at post time if race-kit bodywork, wind screens, footpegs, clip-ons, brake levers or close-ratio transmission gears would be imported into the United States.

Kawasaki plans to announce its 2003 racing contingency programs within about two weeks.
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Super Dave on January 31, 2003, 03:20:35 AM
QuoteAh thanks was never that good with the motors. So what could you do to the bikes that would make them capable to running with the new bike say the 636. Are they going to be that much faster?


Don't worry about being good with the motors.  The chassis is what is important.  You've seen guys on 600's go as fast, or faster, than guys on 1000's...   So, you've always got to remember to ride the bike, work on the chassis...it is that simple...
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: ice on February 14, 2003, 07:11:33 PM
http://www.dcsportbikes.net/albums/album82/03MidWgtDyno.sized.gif

Dyno Runs

2003 Yam R6 (600) versus
2003 Kaw ZX6 (636)

Max HP on both bikes is 105

And I thought the 636 was going to jet out!  

Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: OmniGLH on February 14, 2003, 09:01:24 PM
Quotehttp://www.dcsportbikes.net/albums/album82/03MidWgtDyno.sized.gif

Dyno Runs

2003 Yam R6 (600) versus
2003 Kaw ZX6 (636)

Max HP on both bikes is 105

And I thought the 636 was going to jet out!  


Ya but the Kaw looks to have a smoother curve.  Between 7-8k it's got ~10hp on the Yam.  

Both look like they could benefit from a little tinkering with the maps... their A/Fs aren't very steady...

Otherwise, they are (according to the charts) remarkably similar in power.  I've ridden a 636 - it's damn fast for a 600-class bike, that's for sure...
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Super Dave on February 15, 2003, 01:00:26 AM
Looks like a Dynojet Dyno chart...  They suck.  I mean really suck.  So, the AF stuff is just about irrelevant for this.  And the dyno for that matter.  Might be a good money maker, but not for a serious tuning tool.

It is still the motorcycle "standard", and I think that's poor.
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: OmniGLH on February 15, 2003, 01:03:12 AM
Sheezus Dave I figured I was the only one on at 4am....  ;)

Jim   <-- still at work  :(
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: EX#996 on February 15, 2003, 01:45:58 AM
QuoteSheezus Dave I figured I was the only one on at 4am....  ;)

Jim   <-- still at work  :(

LOL!!!!

I was thinking when I saw the post from Dave and yourself - What in the heck are we doing here at 4:00 a.m.?!  

Well, I got Paul off to work - Jim, you are at work - Dave, what's your excuse?

Dawn   ;)
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: OmniGLH on February 15, 2003, 02:24:33 AM
Ya Dave let's hear it!  ;)


Jim <-- now heading home to go to bed... these 20hr work days are killing me!!!
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Eddie#200 on February 15, 2003, 08:01:09 AM
I'm running my 1999 GSX-R600 again this year.  My guess is that I'll do just fine.
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: DanO966 on February 15, 2003, 11:51:51 AM
QuoteI'm running my 1999 GSX-R600 again this year.  My guess is that I'll do just fine.
just give it more gas!!! ;D
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: ice on February 15, 2003, 01:30:19 PM
Dave,

If Dynojets suck, what do you recommend to analyze engine performance?  

I just put my '99 R6 on a Dynojet 150 and got 99HP.  If there is a better Dyno out there that will give me more HP on paper, I'd be happy......just for the boost in self-confidence!! ;D
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: daisey on February 15, 2003, 06:15:16 PM
kawi....oh didn't they start the rocket revolution? so why haven't they been paying-out. and how much will they pay now? tangent here: lets talk reality,
when you eat a lemon, is it deposited in the same
shape or color as when it is masticated? does size
matter? where did the weight go? was there a compromise somewhere? show me the money, after
we see some numbers and lil "brown" deposites of
wood. till then i'm sticken with what i know works, and
i can get parts for.
daisey am #87.
Title: Re: New Kawi 600s
Post by: Super Dave on February 16, 2003, 11:00:37 AM
QuoteYa Dave let's hear it!  ;)


Jim <-- now heading home to go to bed... these 20hr work days are killing me!!!

Was up to drive to Indy for the dealer show.  Long day.  Got home at 245AM Sunday.

Good dyno's?  It must be consistent and repeatable.  I think your best be is to find someone with a Factory Eddy Current Dyno.  I know 4&6 in Chicago.  Then, look for someone that has a Mustang or Land & Sea dyno.  Dynojet is the MC standard, but that is just because of the cost.  And few dealerships really need a dyno to ACTUALLY tune.  It's just a money maker.