A Performance shop does some suspension work for you. GMD, sprockets, revalve/respring forks, straighten a twisted frame, hang a Penske you purchased, and set it up. $2200. You get the bike back but really don't have much time to look it over, but when you do you realize you've been duped. Work that was said to be done, two items, are not done. Fork tube caps are ready to fall off forks, they're so loose. Fork pinch bolts and a shock mount nut are loose enough to nearly fail NESBA tech at R. America last week.
One of the shop owner's response to this is..." Geez, I can't believe those guys forgot to do that stuff. Must have been my notes. I'll make it up to you when you need some other work done on your bike."
There's a pretty good chance the fork internals weren't taken care of either.
What would you do? What have you done?
Ask for a partial refund of the work done, They may or may not take care of you. If you don't get satisfaction and you paid w/ a credit card, have the charges reversed.
Kudos for not starting flame war here on the board by mentioning them by name. Give a them chance to make good monetarily, if not, make sure you friends know what's what. Word of mouth can kill a biz fast.
Ask for the before and after measurements from the GMD work.
Take the bike to another suspension expert and see if they can peek at the forks for a comment.
get a second opinion and then grill those bastards... i hate lazy workers.... i would get a refund for labor, they prolly wont refund ur parts unless you return them.
I don't want to jump ahead without knowing ANY details, but once you've done your work, do not rule out small claims court to get some of your $$ back if need be.
I think you need to go back to the shop to have the work checked.
I'd think that they would do that for you. Even open up the internals to check for themselves and show you. Certainly embarassing.
Having someone else open it up could placing the other guy in a difficult position. And you'd need to think about the fact that the other guy's time is worth money. More money that you might need to provide. An IF something accidently happens during the disassembly, that would probably place the second guy in a bad position of replacing parts that were broken...or you pay more money.
1. Take it back to the shop and explain your concerns. I know that my guy here in Florida is very concerned about getting things right every time. If there's a problem, let them know and let them fix it. You paid for it and as my guy here says: "When I do your work you own a piece of me".
2. Don't be afraid to look things over before you take the bike back.... like Leonid Brezshnev said to Richard Nixon: "Trust, but verify".
My $1.30.
Quote from: 251am on April 26, 2006, 07:09:08 PM
A Performance shop does some suspension work for you. GMD, sprockets, revalve/respring forks, straighten a twisted frame, hang a Penske you purchased, and set it up. $2200. You get the bike back but really don't have much time to look it over, but when you do you realize you've been duped. Work that was said to be done, two items, are not done. Fork tube caps are ready to fall off forks, they're so loose. Fork pinch bolts and a shock mount nut are loose enough to nearly fail NESBA tech at R. America last week.
One of the shop owner's response to this is..." Geez, I can't believe those guys forgot to do that stuff. Must have been my notes. I'll make it up to you when you need some other work done on your bike."
There's a pretty good chance the fork internals weren't taken care of either.
What would you do? What have you done?
Stand over their shoulder while they verify what was (or wasn't) done. Then make them fix it. Then never go there again.
I had a similar (but not as extensive) negative experience with a certain performance shop a few years ago. Got raped on a GMD job, had some other work done, get the bike to the track and parts were literally falling off. I wound up crashing as I was exiting the track to the pits after a practice session because the steering damper fell off and bound itself up in the forks. Good times... NOT.
Later I heard more stories about that same shop screwing over other prominent racers (claiming to have done GMD work when they didn't, etc.)
Quote from: Jeff on April 27, 2006, 08:16:25 AM
I don't want to jump ahead without knowing ANY details, but once you've done your work, do not rule out small claims court to get some of your $$ back if need be.
I'm not ruling out small claims. To go back to this shop and risk more half ass work is NEARLY out of the question. Drop off and pick up would be round trip of about 14 hours drive time. For what? To risk more BS? Waste 20 or 30 more gallons of diesel? (Funny how $3 a gallon puts driving into a much sharper perspective.)
Thanks for all the perspectives so far. I'd rather handle this in a constructive manner.
I'd bet my back protector you didn't take it to Lithium Motorsports or Valley Racing. Those two shops do outstanding work that you can trust, and would bend over backwards to make a problem right.
I've been in the same position myself, having been screwed by two different shops. Though they will remain nameless here, I'm not shy about relating my horror stories in person every time the name of either shylock shop comes up in conversation. To this day, I can't figure out how one particular shop manages to piss off so many racers each year and still stay in business.... ???
Holy SHIT! I'm a mechanic (I mostly work on track bikes) and I can tell you that certain mistakes just can't be made. It's not a car where you may have an accident, it's a freaking motorcycle... and a track bike at that! There's simply no excuse for what you describe regardless of whether the work was done or not. God forbid you didn't notice the fork caps and the managed to come off, or if the shock came off it's mount mid-corner... complete negligence.
My suggestion, honestly, is to learn every minute detail about your bike. Try to be able to fix things yourself if at all possible. The other option is to stick with someone who is highly recommended. You can tell how good a mechanic is by watching him also. Patient, attention to detail... possibly anal retentive... those are all good things. I'm not sure where you're at but Thermosman & Eric Gray are both excellent at suspension tuning. The former I only know from legend, but it's a BIG legend.
On your current situation : Unfortunately your legal avenues are probably nil. That's one thing about our system that sucks, if you don't get hurt and there's no damage, then there's really no negligence. I think due to the severity of what happened you should at least talk to a lawyer. Hopefully you took pictures.
Quote from: cardzilla on April 28, 2006, 04:58:05 AM
Holy SHIT! I'm a mechanic (I mostly work on track bikes) and I can tell you that certain mistakes just can't be made. It's not a car where you may have an accident, it's a freaking motorcycle... and a track bike at that! There's simply no excuse for what you describe regardless of whether the work was done or not. God forbid you didn't notice the fork caps and the managed to come off, or if the shock came off it's mount mid-corner... complete negligence.
My suggestion, honestly, is to learn every minute detail about your bike. Try to be able to fix things yourself if at all possible. The other option is to stick with someone who is highly recommended. You can tell how good a mechanic is by watching him also. Patient, attention to detail... possibly anal retentive... those are all good things. I'm not sure where you're at but Thermosman & Eric Gray are both excellent at suspension tuning. The former I only know from legend, but it's a BIG legend.
On your current situation : Unfortunately your legal avenues are probably nil. That's one thing about our system that sucks, if you don't get hurt and there's no damage, then there's really no negligence. I think due to the severity of what happened you should at least talk to a lawyer. Hopefully you took pictures.
Funny you should mention the pics! When the first tube cap popped off I just about shit a brick as the internals came shooting out with it. I took pics of that to compare with a suspension site I've seen out there, just to make sure it at least looked comparable to proper assembly.
K3 gets to keep his back protector!!! I know how they stay in business-someone keeps referring fresh pigeons, er, I mean racers.
Shop owner is out of town 'til Tuesday...Oh well.
It happened to me. Here's the short version:
$700 "custom built fork"
still had stock springs, stock pistons, dirty oil, loctite all over the shims, and a chunk of metal wedged between the check plate and rebound piston, holding the check plate open.
No effort to was made on their part to resolve the issues. I won't mention the shop.
In the future, use Lithium Motorsports / Suspension Solutions. They will always be straight with you and they have all the best stuff.
Quote from: JBraun on April 28, 2006, 11:04:51 AM
It happened to me. Here's the short version:
$700 "custom built fork"
still had stock springs, stock pistons, dirty oil, loctite all over the shims, and a chunk of metal wedged between the check plate and rebound piston, holding the check plate open.
No effort to was made on their part to resolve the issues. I won't mention the shop.
In the future, use Lithium Motorsports / Suspension Solutions. They will always be straight with you and they have all the best stuff.
LOL, I bet that puppy handled like a dream!
Was it a shop that runs AMA Superbike that duped you 251?
There are only so many shops that own a GMD. Consider the region and do the math.
First and foremost; you work hard for your money! If you have kids, mortgage, alimony etc., these guys (shop) just simply stole your money along with the hard earned CASH that your family relies on. If these pricks don't have the balls to just tell you they don't have time to do it right and proceed on half-assed, its certainly not a shop I'd take my race bike to for tunning, let alone give them the oppurtunity to fuck it up again.
Iv'e read on this thread, "give them a chance to make it right" and so on. But, consider this; did they consider they put your safety at jeopardy, not to mention those that race with you also? Thank those NESBA tech people for not just blazing through tech and letting you find out the hard way.
I've seen this crap happen to good people. If this shop needs your 1k to survive on while lining up their next victim; they aren't even in the game and will never get there. Just write this one off to a 1k lesson. I'm sure you don't have the time to hang over someone's shoulder to check their work, hell, you paid for a professional job and expect to recieve what you paid for, nothing less.
You need to talk to your racing friends, get referrals from them and SLAM the (unmentionable) shop BIG TIME! Word of mouth is a double edged sword.
Quote from: Gixxerblade on April 28, 2006, 09:25:58 PM
Was it a shop that runs AMA Superbike that duped you 251?
Ooooo, 20 questions! Goody!
Quote from: spyderchick on April 29, 2006, 10:59:20 AM
Ooooo, 20 questions! Goody!
But I already know the answer. ;D
After reading through this thread again, I came to the wonder how someones concern of putting "the guy in a difficult position" and being embarassed, not to mention accidents happening during DISASSEMBLY...... Came about. Who the fuck cares at the point you get fucked out of $2000.00!
This shop is no less than a mill for the unsuspecting consumer. Anyone who even promotes a shop like this sits in the passenger seat with these assholes!
I am, by nature a consumer advocate; to the core! In the state I live in, there are laws that protect the consumer against shops like this. You should check with your State Board Of Consumer Affairs and also check with the Better Business Bureau. If they don't have a history with these agencies, start one. If they do, let them do their job.
I think I got the 20th question!!! If it's the shop I think it is; I personally know of two others who were bent over and not kissed. But I won't tell......... Oh, do I get kudos too for not flamming?
Quote from: L8brake731 on April 30, 2006, 03:28:23 AM
After reading through this thread again, I came to the wonder how someones concern of putting "the guy in a difficult position" and being embarassed, not to mention accidents happening during DISASSEMBLY...... Came about. Who the fuck cares at the point you get fucked out of $2000.00!
This shop is no less than a mill for the unsuspecting consumer. Anyone who even promotes a shop like this sits in the passenger seat with these assholes!
I am, by nature a consumer advocate; to the core! In the state I live in, there are laws that protect the consumer against shops like this. You should check with your State Board Of Consumer Affairs and also check with the Better Business Bureau. If they don't have a history with these agencies, start one. If they do, let them do their job.
I think I got the 20th question!!! If it's the shop I think it is; I personally know of two others who were bent over and not kissed. But I won't tell......... Oh, do I get kudos too for not flamming?
Kudos for not flamming, yet!! Were you at R. America? I thought I saw a set of Fukiage leathers in the paddock somewhere, but all the way from Cali!!? Wow....
Silence is one of the keys to keeping these folks in fleecing operations. I'll give em a chance to make good yet-still out of the shop!?
Yeah, came out to play with you Mid West Boys! Had a blast out there.
Also played as support for another victim of "the unmentionable" shop! >:(
This time they "Freshened up" his motor for the new season starting at Daytona, only to find that after these guys "freshened the motor" & "Dynoed" his bike, I watched in horror :o as he got spanked on the long drives at that track!
Turns out, wrong throttle tube; only was opening about 3/4! Now I can give a shop a break if it's just mistake, no problem. However; after they charged this guy for the dyno runs and mapped (some funky switch-like Power Commander); how could this shop let the bike go when it only was opening approx. 3/4? ??? ;)I'll tell you how; the MAGIC of stealing someone's money for providing a service that never happened. I asked where's the Dyno Run sheets? He never was given them. I have that bike in CA. now and will probably post what I find on it at some point. Lot's of clunking around down there....... ???
As K3 mentioned, "To this day, I can't figure out how one particular shop manages to piss off so many racers each year and still stay in business.... " They can do this because their client base is just enough to keep them in business (regulars, that help keep the name going) but not enough to profit on. That's where guys like you and a couple others I know come into play. Leave us not forget; recruiters out there for this shop; probably getting discounts and such for the refferals ::).
Case in point, you just need to be a smart consumer. Sometimes you win and sometimes you just have to get even ;D
Good Luck 251 AM!
Quote from: L8brake731 on May 02, 2006, 06:51:44 PM
Yeah, came out to play with you Mid West Boys! Had a blast out there.
Also played as support for another victim of "the unmentionable" shop! >:(
This time they "Freshened up" his motor for the new season starting at Daytona, only to find that after these guys "freshened the motor" & "Dynoed" his bike, I watched in horror :o as he got spanked on the long drives at that track!
Turns out, wrong throttle tube; only was opening about 3/4! Now I can give a shop a break if it's just mistake, no problem. However; after they charged this guy for the dyno runs and mapped (some funky switch-like Power Commander); how could this shop let the bike go when it only was opening approx. 3/4? ??? ;)I'll tell you how; the MAGIC of stealing someone's money for providing a service that never happened. I asked where's the Dyno Run sheets? He never was given them. I have that bike in CA. now and will probably post what I find on it at some point. Lot's of clunking around down there....... ???
As K3 mentioned, "To this day, I can't figure out how one particular shop manages to piss off so many racers each year and still stay in business.... " They can do this because their client base is just enough to keep them in business (regulars, that help keep the name going) but not enough to profit on. That's where guys like you and a couple others I know come into play. Leave us not forget; recruiters out there for this shop; probably getting discounts and such for the refferals ::).
Case in point, you just need to be a smart consumer. Sometimes you win and sometimes you just have to get even ;D
Good Luck 251 AM!
One reason to learn to do the work yourself. ;D OEM service manual, nice complete set of tools and a few weekends over winter with a case or two is geart. ;D
just like me u need to give them the chance to make it right, you already paid for that service and they didnt give it to u so take it back and see that u get the service u paid for, like me u r stuck between a rock and a hard place
There are no authorized GMD Computrack centers in the midwest to my knowledge.
Check around Andy...
http://www.racetech.com/SubMenu.asp?cMenu=23&c=Yes&cSubMenu=90&showPage=computrack
Time out here. I understand the deviation from the topic to a broader area. However, I'd like to keep this to the constructive side of what others have done, rather than a flame fest. Locked.
I took the bike over to TSE, Ed Kwaterski's pumpkin orange EZ Up at BHF a few weekends ago. I pushed the bike hard during practice and couldn't get within 4 seconds of last years best times at BHF, back then, on the OEM suspension.
So, Ed understands the situation. He shows me how to remove forks, what I need to measure, etc, then I watch as he takes them apart. Valve shim stack, in one of the compression stacks, was Loc-tited together, both stacks in the rebound had divider washers in the middle completely killing oil flow there, and the springs were USED. Also, the springs were a mismatch and wrong for someone over 200#s. Ed knows his stuff. I'm not saying he'll tear down and rebuild your forks during a race weekend, while you watch/help over a 9 hour period, like he did with me, but you can ask.
Been waiting 3 weeks since the other shop owner promised a partial refund from the $2200 bill. Check's still in the mail.....$550 was charged for their "fork work". 400 for some "kit", and 150 for the install. The owner says he doesn't mind seeing his shop get roasted on the 'net, even though I haven't mentioned them by name. He actually said..." I think it's funny."
Quote from: 251am on May 26, 2006, 07:48:24 PM
The owner says he doesn't mind seeing his shop get roasted on the 'net, even though I haven't mentioned them by name. He actually said..." I think it's funny."
I think part of the problem is that no one mentions the shop's name. There are those of us who are "in the know"... and those that aren't. Unfortunately, those that aren't in the know don't really have a chance to find out.
I know that any one I know personally has talked about using this shop, I've done my best to share my experiences. It's worked with some people. Others, even afterwards, have still fallen victim to this shop owner's stellar salesmanship (he is QUITE the salesman.)
Are there any rules on this board regarding mentioning the shop's name? Can Jeff get in trouble? If not - we should bring it up and perhaps make a sticky thread. Their BS has gone on long enough.
251 - I can guarantee you that as soon as he hangs up the phone with you, he is ripping on you to everyone that is within earshot. I've seen it happen personally. He is really good at making you think he's your best pal to your face. You should hear the shit he says about the folks over at ChicagolandSportbikes.com (and his shop is an exclusive site sponsor!!)
Truly yes it maybe improper to mention the Shops name but, you say this guy is laughing about this hole ordeal. I don't believe you will see your refund anytime soon... I think the Shop Name should get posted in thie Forum. We are all racers here, and we need to help and protect one anotherfrom all kinds of things including getting ripped -off. I have personally been ripped-off by a race shop. This shop knew it all and had 25 years of racing experience. YEAH Right. every motor after mine I've heard of coming out of this shop has gone back with problems. My friends and I notified the American Motorcycle Association and started to spread the word that this so called Race Shop was ripping people off and doing crap work. Rush, Rush. Rush that's all they do try and get bikes out the door. Well were did the quality work go...
None the less unless until we are allowed by Jeff to form some type of forum on the CCS Forum for Good Repritable Racing Shops and Bad Shops we can only mention the good ones by name. But I would definately network the Shop out through your friends and contacts through racing so someone else doesn't fall into the trap as well.
Best thing is to write a letter to Road Racing World about how this shop screws people and shoddy work.
Is there an actual policy preventing us from mentioning the shop's name? Certianly no one has ever prevented me from loudly proclaiming that
Lithium Motorsports and Suspension Solutions
Valley Racing
Mason Racin Tires
Spyder Leatherworks
Ed Kwaterski of Trackside Engineering
Dave Rosno and Visionsports
and
Superbike Italia
are all firms that have gone above and beyond for my dollar, displaying the same passion for this sport that I feel myself.
So why can't we discuss the name of this shyster ripoff shop openly? Is it because they sponsor Rosno, or because their name equals ten?
Honestly, it seems as if this board would be doing racers a service if it had a section devoted to shops and their reputations. I realize that no shop can please everyone, but one badmouthing customer would not ruin a good shop's reputation, because many others would post in defense.
The bad shops, however, would hopefully be disrespected right out of business. Considering that "Shop Ten" can't even seem to pay his bills on time and has therefore been dropped as a customer by many supply houses, it probably wouldn't take much of a reduction in reputation to push him out of the game.
BTW, if you think your refund check is in the mail, get in line behind the suppliers that are still waiting for their checks....
Once again K3, thanks for saying what everyone was thinking.
Dawn :thumb:
Any one who wants to know the name of this shop can PM or email any person "in the know" and I'm sure they will gladly give up the info.
Really good businesses are built mostly on word of mouth. Thank you to every single one of my customers and friends (generally those are interchangable), for helping me build my business.
I think the reason no one is mentioning this "shop" in the thread is we are all trying to take the higher road. It also speaks to the caliber of thier charachter for not slamming them in public.
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on May 27, 2006, 08:22:57 AM
Is there an actual policy preventing us from mentioning the shop's name? Certianly no one has ever prevented me from loudly proclaiming that
Lithium Motorsports and Suspension Solutions
Valley Racing
Mason Racin Tires
Spyder Leatherworks
Ed Kwaterski of Trackside Engineering
Dave Rosno and Visionsports
and
Superbike Italia
are all firms that have gone above and beyond for my dollar, displaying the same passion for this sport that I feel myself.
So why can't we discuss the name of this shyster ripoff shop openly? Is it because they sponsor Rosno, or because their name equals ten?
I think its because Todd was trying to work it out first before posting the name here much like Alexxa said. I've never seen a site have rules about naming shops that screwed people over. Personally I like it when they have a section devoted to shop/dealer reviews.
Quote from: spyderchick on May 27, 2006, 02:13:01 PM
Thank you to every single one of my customers and friends (generally those are interchangable), for helping me build my business.
Translation: "You like me! You really like me!"
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on May 27, 2006, 05:11:26 PM
Translation: "You like me! You really like me!"
:thumb: :biggrin:
"Shop 10"?
LMAO!! That's certainly the most creative, yet P.C., nickname I've heard for them yet!!!
And of course I'm nothing if not politically correct.... :lmao:
We all know how politically correct I am! God I can't type fast enough to get this out.
4&6
Man I luv this forum stuff! I can cause all kinds of shit without even leaving the house. If I could just get this computer to throw a punch I'd be all set.
Does anyone have contact info for Ed Kwaterski? I need to talk to him. Mark!
Never mind... I found it.
Quote from: Buell_391 on May 28, 2006, 08:50:55 AM
Does anyone have contact info for Ed Kwaterski? I need to talk to him. Mark!
I've PMed you his phone #
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on May 27, 2006, 08:38:13 AM
Honestly, it seems as if this board would be doing racers a service if it had a section devoted to shops and their reputations. BTW, if you think your refund check is in the mail, get in line behind the suppliers that are still waiting for their checks....
Mr. Rosno, are you gonna write me that $600 refund check Jim promised me? Wanna just give it to me at R. America this weekend? I know there's gonna be a line of guys to see Jim about THEIR refunds over at the Safety First semi...
Yeah, poor Dave. I know just how he feels. In 2002, my team picked up sponsorship from an outfit called Oz Cycle Salvage. The guy didn't deliver on what he'd promised us, and the people I'd sent to him all reported getting screwed. Next, I started hearing from VERY trustworthy sources that the guy was out there badmouthing my teammate and I! Needless to say we broke ties with that company fast.
I'm sure that the companies who have given me support would tell anyone that I am VERY serious about bringing them business. I go out of my way to put my sponsor's cards in the hands of people who really need their services, and I stamp the back of each card to remind the recipient that I'm the guy who sent them. My own reputation is on the line when I recommend a shop to another racer, so I've learned to be choosy about who's help I will accept.
From what I've seen, Rosno is equally serious about working for his sponsors. Cases in point, Rosno has probably been personally responsable for the sale of a hundred Vanson suits, and countless Suomy helmets. (Suomy helmets have saved my life on numerous occasions, and I started using them because of Dave, so I guess you could say that in a roundabout way, Dave saved my.... Nah, I won't go there. :rollseyes:)
So what damage does a racer incur when one of his sponsors starts screwing the very customers who that racer sends to them? It's a slippery slope. Hopefully Dave can get clear of this situation without much personal fallout toward himself or Visionsport. My personal dealings with Rosno have shown him to be an honest guy, and I just can't see Dave intentionally setting any racer up for a screwing.
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on May 29, 2006, 07:19:04 PM
Yeah, poor Dave. I know just how he feels. In 2002, my team picked up sponsorship from an outfit called Oz Cycle Salvage. The guy didn't deliver on what he'd promised us, and the people I'd sent to him all reported getting screwed. Next, I started hearing from VERY trustworthy sources that the guy was out there badmouthing my teammate and I! Needless to say we broke ties with that company fast, and I about had to sit on my teammate to keep him from driving out to Kansas with a baseball bat.... I STILL hope we never run into that jerk again. :finger:
I'm sure that the companies who have given me support would tell anyone that I am VERY serious about bringing them business. I go out of my way to put my sponsor's cards in the hands of people who really need their services, and I stamp the back of each card to remind the recipient that I'm the guy who sent them. My own reputation is on the line when I recommend a shop to another racer, so I've learned to be choosy about who's help I will accept.
From what I've seen, Rosno is equally serious about working for his sponsors. Cases in point, Rosno has probably been personally responsable for the sale of a hundred Vanson suits, and countless Suomy helmets. (Suomy helmets have saved my life on numerous occasions, and I started using them because of Dave, so I guess you could say that in a roundabout way, Dave saved my.... Nah, I won't go there. :rollseyes:)
So what damage does a racer incur when one of his sponsors starts screwing the very customers who that racer sends to them? It's a slippery slope. Hopefully Dave can get clear of this situation without much personal fallout toward himself or Visionsport. My personal dealings with Rosno have shown him to be an honest guy, and I just can't see Dave intentionally setting any racer up for a screwing.
I respect your perspective, however the screwing has been going on for a long time, and LOTS of people
Well, I know what I'd do (did) in this situation. We'll see how Dave handles it.
:pop:
Doh! Why did I hit that icon? Bad K3! Bad!
Okay guys. Here's the deal.
First off, K3, if you want to physically threaten people, you need to be cognizant of legal ramifications. I would strongly discourage you from doing it. If you do it again, I will remove your posts.
Second, the shop is 4&6 as mentioned. If you have a question or comment on them or their service, I would recommend you contact the shop owner Jim Raschid (sp?) for PERSONAL clarification.
Posting the flame fest here will not get you your money back. It won't get your forks fixed. It won't fix shoddy service. It will just give you a place to get it out...
We've all had good service at places and bad service at places. Even the best of places have provided bad service.
1st amendment rights for freedom of speach are encouraged here. If you want to say you had a bad experience at X-Y-Z shop, so be it. If a business wants to have their lawyer contact mine over it, feel free to PM me or look up my info in any whois database.
Quote from: Jeff on May 30, 2006, 09:28:36 AM
First off, K3, if you want to physically threaten people, you need to be cognizant of legal ramifications. I would strongly discourage you from doing it. If you do it again, I will remove your posts.
Now Jeff, I believe that I merely speculated as to what my reaction MIGHT be were I the wronged party. I am NOT the wronged party, and hence have no reason to, nor did I, threaten anyone. That would fall under the free speech thing, but I get your message.
Notice in my post about Oz I mentioned that I was the one discouraging my teammate's considered response. I think you and I both know me better than that. Violence doesn't solve anything, even though it might provide temporary relief of angst....
So yeah, I hear what you're saying, but I don't see where I threatened or even implied a threat towards anyone. Censor away if you see it differently. No, wait. Never mind, Mongo. I did it for you.
(a) don't call me Mongo you furry bastard.
(b) thanks for understanding my point. I understand yours.
Quote from: Jeff on May 31, 2006, 08:49:29 AM
(a) don't call me Mongo you furry bastard.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Quote from: Jeff on May 31, 2006, 08:49:29 AM
(a) don't call me Mongo you furry bastard.
Now that you mention it he is PRETTY furry.
Quote from: 251am on May 31, 2006, 09:52:55 AM
Now that you mention it he is PRETTY furry.
K3 might have
more fur, but I think Ed Key has denser, finer quality fur. :biggrin:
I'll try the Key fur jacket, please. Eeeeewwwwwwww! (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clicksmilies.com%2Fs0105%2Fwuerg%2Fvomit-smiley-020.gif&hash=cf725f12d4942e939b5a250980d7bf9abf36c728)
Now wait a second here! I may be an asshole to stupid people but I don't censor anyone! :D
Quote from: Mongo on May 31, 2006, 02:46:54 PM
Now wait a second here! I may be an asshole to stupid people but I don't censor anyone! :D
Which is why we love you so. (In a hatin' kind of way) :biggrin:
Quote from: Mongo on May 31, 2006, 02:46:54 PM
Now wait a second here! I'm asshole to anyone who does not agree with me
Quote from: Jeff on May 31, 2006, 08:49:29 AM
(a) don't call me Mongo you furry bastard.
You keep talkin' like that, boy, fur's gonna FLY!
Oh, wait.... Damn! Could that be construed as a threat? Will it be seen as a humorous play on words, or will the thought police arrive at my door? Gee wiz! I'm so confused! This new CCS forum is tricky. I can swear like a mufuggin truck driver now, but can't express my inner feelings! What a cunundrum! Man, I've just got this bad feeling I'm gonna get censored and banned....
:biggrin:
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on May 31, 2006, 08:32:23 PM
but can't express my inner feelings! What a cunundrum!
furry caveman no have no feeling inner vocabyoulari either where u got that from
:kicknuts:
:kicknuts:
Quote from: 251am on May 31, 2006, 09:16:03 PM
furry caveman no have no feeling inner vocabyoulari either where u got that from
Found a pic of K3 beore he shaved....
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fatv.at%2Fmain%2Fprogramm%2Fserien%2Fimages%2FBigfoot_Harry%2FHarry_gr.jpg&hash=db26aad4a5dbd0fd1c766612c831dfc9b2684d38)
:biggrin:
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on May 31, 2006, 09:31:21 PM
Found a pic of K3 beore he shaved....
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fatv.at%2Fmain%2Fprogramm%2Fserien%2Fimages%2FBigfoot_Harry%2FHarry_gr.jpg&hash=db26aad4a5dbd0fd1c766612c831dfc9b2684d38)
:biggrin:
That was on the book tour, right? :pop:
Quote from: 2fast on May 31, 2006, 07:13:21 PM
Quote from: Mongo on May 31, 2006, 02:46:54 PM
Now wait a second here! I'm asshole to anyone who does not agree with me
Lemme guess, another stupid person upset because I called them out on it.... Gee, is this Garry perchance?
:preachon:
Quote from: 251am on May 29, 2006, 06:49:41 PM
Mr. Rosno, are you gonna write me that $600 refund check Jim promised me? Wanna just give it to me at R. America this weekend? I know there's gonna be a line of guys to see Jim about THEIR refunds over at the Safety First semi...
Hey todd you should have come see me at the Safety First trailer , I had a check for you. I didn't see you at all?
Quote from: 251am on May 29, 2006, 06:49:41 PM
Mr. Rosno, are you gonna write me that $600 refund check Jim promised me? Wanna just give it to me at R. America this weekend? I know there's gonna be a line of guys to see Jim about THEIR refunds over at the Safety First semi...
Hmm...this is all interesting and all, but I think you should have shown up at the Safety First Racing area during the event that you said you were going to show up. Be done with the victim card.
As for a check from me, right.
As for someone that says one thing and then says something different behind one's back...
Seems like that's going on here already.
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on May 29, 2006, 07:19:04 PM
From what I've seen, Rosno is equally serious about working for his sponsors. Cases in point, Rosno has probably been personally responsable for the sale of a hundred Vanson suits, and countless Suomy helmets. (Suomy helmets have saved my life on numerous occasions, and I started using them because of Dave, so I guess you could say that in a roundabout way, Dave saved my.... Nah, I won't go there. :rollseyes:)
So what damage does a racer incur when one of his sponsors starts screwing the very customers who that racer sends to them? It's a slippery slope. Hopefully Dave can get clear of this situation without much personal fallout toward himself or Visionsport. My personal dealings with Rosno have shown him to be an honest guy, and I just can't see Dave intentionally setting any racer up for a screwing.
First, one would have to show cause that there are actually all of these substantial damages that someone seems to be responsible for. Again, motorcycle racers are pretty responsible for their own errors, but they often play the victim card.
Honestly, some of us run things out of oil, some overrev, some back shift, sometimes OEM parts break, sometimes fuses blow.
When are you going to go off on Yates, Pridmore, Meiring, and Spies for promoting HJC? Afterall, Jeremy had how many concussions because of that? You could talk to Tony tomorrow or Saturday, I'm betting.
Next, would someone be responsible for NOT telling someone something?
Are there problems with OEM bikes that have no modifications?
Did you get any suspension ideas from me, Chris? I'd probably say that you should drop any kind of philosophical ideology that you gleaned from me...might have some 4&6 in there too.
Everyone's a victim anymore.
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on May 29, 2006, 07:19:04 PM
Yeah, poor Dave. I know just how he feels. In 2002, my team picked up sponsorship from an outfit called Oz Cycle Salvage. The guy didn't deliver on what he'd promised us, and the people I'd sent to him all reported getting screwed. Next, I started hearing from VERY trustworthy sources that the guy was out there badmouthing my teammate and I! Needless to say we broke ties with that company fast.
So, you think you know how I feel?
I make my recommendations, and people act on them or not. Certainly, I'm not the most powerful marketing opportunity in the country. If I am, well, someone get me a job doing that for some substantial money, because it isn't available in motorcycling.
Next, there are individuals that actually go to 4&6 that are really, really happy about what they did, how things were done, and then I can help them build on things from there. Complainers are the most vocal people, and their voices are ususally made to be heard well above anything that someone that has a good experience has to say, unfortunately. On that note, it has been an easy time feeling that 4&6 was a reliable place to send individuals for information. Seldom do I say, you need this and this and this and this. Seldom have I ever heard Jim at 4&6 ever say that. Usually, it's, "You don't need that," or, "Why would you want to do that." Even goes for me too. After all these years, I know a couple things, but it's easy to try to use a crutch for an idea on how to go faster, or to restore some idea of performance to a chassis or motor. Sometimes, Jim's easy answer is simple and doesn't even cost money.
Often, Jim's responses like that get riders going in a good direction. Some get anrgy with it. Others want certain things, and Jim will deliever that for a person if they want it.
Regardless, when the shit hits the fan, individuals need to recognize that communication between the actual involved parties is going to be more valuable to the customer/business relationship.
Having been in a few different industries...there's plenty of money to be lost in customers that continually cut everything down in their path. There aren't many of them, thankfully, but they are there.
The customer is always right? Yeah, well, go back to how things work in kindergarten...you ask nicely, you show up when youre supposed to, and life sometimes isn't fair to you...Life sucks, go get a helmet. Everyone has a busy life. Motorcycle road racing is a small industry. No one here makes good money playing around in bikes. If one thinks that one can do better... And sometimes, the customer isn't right. There are other customers in our small world that try to make potential problems easier to work with rather than harder to work with.
Have a fun weekend, everyone!
I went to 4&6 cause Super Dave told me to... :thumb:
I had my motor built by 4&6 for my 06 R6...
At HPT I had one of the Yamaha OEM Valves brake in 1/2...Rod seperated from the Tulip...
Took the motor out, Super Dave dropped it off for me (thanks again! Beer on me next time 8) ) and within 1 business day they had it ripped apart and Ed had me on the phone letting me know what was needed and what it was going to take...
They also did a CompuTrack for me...No problems here...
Get this...While my 06 R6 was up there they took off my suspension and got them over to Ryan at Lithium so he could get my 25mm Kit installed for my forks...How nice is that? They were willing to take the forks off, box em' up and ship em' off (to for all arguements sake a competitor)...
All I paid was shipping...
I am very impressed with their work, and would recommend them...
Now if Yamaha would just stock their damn parts I would have my "A" bike's motor back... :ahhh:
Jim Rashid and I exchanged a few e-mails. I didn't hold back a bit in expressing my personal opinions to him. Rashid took it like a man, and said I was entitled to my opinion. I must admit, I was impressed by that. It didn't change certain opinions that I may have, but it greatly increased my respect for Jim himself.
I recieved a voicemail from Kevin Hanson. In his usual likeable way, he explained a few things to me. Didn't really apply to certain other situations I've been privvy to, but thanks anyway. As with all my previous dealings with Kevin, I came away impressed.
Dave, I'm sorry. Sorry I stirred you up, sorry I dropped a coin in the slot, sorry I shook your tree, sorry I cared enough to share an opinion with you, sorry I ever posted to this thread, sorry I ever posted on the CCS forum for that matter. Sorry I ever went CCS racing. Sorry I ever called you, PM'd you, spoke to you in person, or uttered your name in my thoughts.
I'm backing away from this whole subject now.
Backing away slowly,
hands in plain view,
slowly....
Almost gone....
Never going to post to this thread or any other thread relating to this subject ever again....
please just let me leave....
almost gone....
gone.
Dude, you might want to throw a little WD40 on those hinges.... :err:
Don't apologize Chris...
Everyone is entitled to their thoughts, opinions and feelings. Athough there is one :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: (or perhaps more than one) who thinks that his is the only one that is valid or matters.
Take all this attention that you received as a compliment. Apparently they thought enough of your influence in this sport to make the effort to contact you.
Dawn :cheers:
You know whats real funny about the whole thing ? It's perceptions , sometimes people hear what they want in conversations. I had a CLSB seminar early this year , i met Todd there when he dropped off his bike. The Seminar was free and there were probably around 40 people that showed up. It was about Trackday riding not really about racing. The people that were there can relate this better. I never once said they should come to my shop , i never once tried to sell them anything. I told them they didn't need most things they thought they did. Never bad rapped any other shop or pushed our services on anyone. So why did i do it ? It was one of my only Sundays off for the whole year. I did it to help guys and gals starting off , most of the people that showed up were customers of other shops , didn't bother as i am in this business beacause i Love Motorcycle Racing. Simple no hidden agenda. As i said on the other thread i really don't care who you go to or where you spend your money. I have been doing this with my partner ED and a lot of great employees for over 25 years. I have never had a huge ego and also have the respect of the people that matter in this industry. My shop has been and will continue to be one of the only shops in the country that can compete at the factory level in AMA , whether in Roadrace or Flattrack as bikes built by us have won races in both. I can sleep at night knowing i have by the most part been as fair withas many people as possible. it is real plain and simple we have competed at the highest levels of motorcycle racing and have succeded, I know of no other shop within 1000 miles that can state that. I guess when your that good you are an easy target to attack. I will be at Blackhawk testing with Safety First friday and Saturday. Can our rider win races on Saturday that we enter , i am sure he can. Thats not our goal we are there to test. I would make him pull off anyway so as not to steal some local guys glory. I choose not to live my life trying to justify anything to a few fools . I choose to stand in the arena and if that means dodging a few stones so be it . All i can say is bring it on and come up to my level and compete i never hide.
Jim, you owe me $50.00 from Seibkins. We can square at Laguna next week. :thumb:
Quote from: Garth on July 14, 2006, 12:07:45 AM
Jim, you owe me $50.00 from Seibkins. We can square at Laguna next week. :thumb:
Man you got me pretty hammered
Quote from: fourandsix on July 14, 2006, 12:09:05 AM
Man you got me pretty hammered
Funny, I thought the same about you.
and where are all the little fucking cool smiley dealios, damn it.
And who are the pathetic loosers who smited me 4 times. :wah: You all suck. I am nothing but positive you fucking tools. :jerkoff: asswipes :kicknuts:
:lmao: