>:( >:( >:(
I am pissed.!!!!!!!! First off in my area there are tons of peolple getting off the street and going to do track days. ( I'm cool with that)
BUT>>> the track days are falling on days that we had all day friday racer practice and LP days. SO now these days are selling out months in advance due to the new riders on the track. SO thats now more money to practice on a NESBA and TPM day plus membership fee to the org. By the way this shit just happened to me. The NESBA days for the 16th and may 5th are sold out. So i get a call saying this guy will sell you his spot for both days for 250 a pop. F CK that!!!!!!!! The day only cost 170.
And what is this crap of charging and extra 10 buck processing fee for using a credit card
PLEASE CCS and LP give us back the racer practice day.
I have seen that there is a day, maybe two with no racers pratice and a bunch of scrub track dayerz are filling our pratice. We need to get our pratice days back.
just checked the summit web site.... NO RACERS PRATICE!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!! there is like one, maybe two where MARRC helped us out and got the day. fuggen track day orgs! >:(
I still think we should park in front of the gates and make it so difficult for these clubs that they will NEVER take our pratice days again! >:( >:( >:(
So long story short is this?: Friday "Test & Tunes" are being turned into regular Track Days? WTF!?
Is this information listed on this site as to which Fridays at such and such a Track are now open Track Days?
I'm not racing at this time,I will be later this season hopefully.
I think that Friday practice should be for racers only.
I understand the td guys want track time,but they need to realize that you guys need to get dialed in.
The org know this & should recognize it.I know they want to make $$ but you guys need time to work on things & get set-up right
So you are saying there is not a practice on Fri May 5 for racers unless we pre registered?
Smoke, what tracks are refering to specifically? More info on which tracks this is happening at would be helpful.
FYI: for those in the Midwest, Blackhawk Farms does have it's own open trackdays available, but they are preserving the Fridays before CCS events as a test and tune day for racers. If you go to their site (http://www.blackhawkfarms.com/), you will find that by clicking on the "test and tune" link in the lower right hand corner, you can sign up in advance for the day you choose.
Smoke is refering to Summit Point, main I believe. That is the one that I checked. Cornerspeed still does racers pratice as normal.
I am about to form my own track day org and work with MARRC and get racers pratice back. I would buy up the days before every summit weekend and would be open to Students and racers only.
I think the only one to blame here is MARRC, or whoever used to host the track day for not reserving it again.
You snooze you lose.
QuoteSo you are saying there is not a practice on Fri May 5 for racers unless we pre registered?
Was up garry? I need to call you.
The only way you can ride on May 5th is if you register and become a member of NESBA. You better hope they have spots open.
looks like i will show up for sat morn practice, Smokey I will bring lap timer for you.
SUP GARY!!!!!!!!!!!!
We will all have to hook up in our 15 min pratice only! Still a little bitter about this.
I have written a letter to MARRC about this. I did not flame them of vent at them. I personally will never bad mouth marrc. I wrote to them to see what I can to do ensure that these pathetic little scrub orgs don't do this to us again.
I still say we should cause a huge traffic jam in front of the gates friday morning and make life difficult for Nesba.
NESBA is also responsible for the disappearance of Jimmy Hofa, global warming, the holocaust and Britney Spears.
This does REALLY BLOW that NESBA has the track the day before race day!! I was banking on a LP or MARRC day to get myself ready for Sat. & Sun; but I had to sign up for a trackday next Monday to get myself ready.
Come on MARRC you guys are alwayas there for us, get us are practice days back.
When I hear back from Marrc, which I am sure I will, I will post up. If I have to, I will work with marrc to secure our pratice days to get them back. Maybe I will contact Roger Lyle!
MARRC has two track days this year.
Saturday May 27 and Friday June 30th
QuoteNESBA is also responsible for the disappearance of Jimmy Hofa, global warming, the holocaust and Britney Spears.
Garth - don't take things the wrong way. No one is blaming NESBA. I just don't think is right for us to need to pay so much extra time on the track to practice. As you know nesba sells out quick and to be told I can have a day for 250 is crap. when the day use to be 75.
So now I'm a member of nesba. So on the 5th I get to ride in I since I'm still an AM. I for see my self getting kicked out since I'm in race prac mode ( pass, go, pass go)
Also, I was a little mis-informed about how this whole signing up process that orgs (ccs and nesba) works. I have been since informed. I am still mad, but not towards nesba anymore.
I am in communication with the right people now to better secure our pratice days for 07. Nothing can be done about 06, what is done is done. I will post up when I have more concrete information.
If I upset Garth, I do appologize. It is just easy to blame the org that has the pratice day, but shame on me for not doing my research first.
I'm far from upset, just a bit puzzled. I'm just glad that you were able to establish the true events with this situation. I guess I will never understand why some take a position of racers Vs. trackdays. I have been a racer and have raced far longer than my association with doing track days with NESBA. It never has been nor will it ever be track day orgs against race orgs. If anyone feels that way I am sorry, but that is not the intent. I got into track days in order to complement the race side of things in the first place. NESBA has been and always will be racer friendly. Britney Spears on the other hand. :)
lol
Like I said, my actions was not called for, and do appologize. I guess it is just too easy to point blame.
Dude, I don't even start with Britney!
Just to add, I don't think that there is much of a racers vs trackday riders. I think this instance was just a shock to most of us that we, for the first time I can remember, don't have any pratice. When we looked at the schedual, we saw nesba and blamed them. Most of us here are for trackdays as it educates riders. I hope that should something like this happens again... maybe nesba and fellow CCS racers can work something out.
Quote I guess I will never understand why some take a position of racers Vs. trackdays. NESBA has been and always will be racer friendly.
Okay, I'll bite...
Unless I read wrong, I'd guess it's because it will cost him $100 more to practice in a field of less predictable riders.
But that's just a guess.
If you're racer friendly, how about a discount for the racers whose cost to practice just doubled?
Don, I can't speak for any other track day organizations but I can assure you that the riders in the NESBA Advanced group are not any less predictable than a majority of the "racers". I've seen way more hair ball moves and erratic riding in my years of racing far greater than with any NESBA Advanced group. This is a huge misconception that several "racers" have towards NESBA track day riders. I'm curious as to how many NESBA days you have participated in - in order to inform your opinion.
Why is it NESBA's obligation to offer a discount to someone just because they race? Anyone who complains about the cost of racing should just quit. Being racer friendly is not just about offering a discount. Believe me there is more going on towards this effort than you know. I can assure you that several racers have contacted me through out the years and would support this position.
I wonder why this date was available in the first place and why was it made available to NESBA if in fact there was an over whelming demand for a racer practice why did not the prior Friday provider maintain the date? Would you feel better if the date went unused and the track set empty with no event?
AMA PRO 971
CCS Expert 971
ASRA Expert 971
Former
MCRA Expert 970
MRA expert 911
BFD ::)
Garth
whats the deal now? why even say something like " Anyone who complains about the cost of racing should just quit."
We all spend the money to race, ride TDS and what have you casue we like to. Those that don't have it cry about, and those that do have it cry? Why pay so much more becasue someone wants to be greedy ( sell a TD for way more)?
Yes I bitch about spending money. Yes I have the money to burn but thats just me
This thread is ridiculous.
If NESBA is overcharging then why are so many of the track days sold out far in advance?
Aw crap. I probably should have passed on that post, but I felt bad for a fellow racer whose cost went up $100 and got shoved aside by the public riders so I didn't think he should have to apologize for pointing it out, that's all.
I think I've done three NESBA days IIRC. I had a very positive experience at each one so there's no criticism of NESBA at all. The days were well organized, track coaches were great and I'll do more, etc., etc.
Look...here's my perspective and then I'll quit. It's getting crowded out there. I think that's a fact. Heck, it used to be (at Gingerman, for instance) that you'd get a call from the track or some friends that the track would be open on such and such a day and you'd go out to play. Now it's a commercial thing and I'm whining about it, along with some others. I admit that because it was a lot more fun before.
At BHF the Friday practices are great for the racers to get some time in before a packed race weekend with limited practice to work on setup, etc. I know I'd hate to see the cost of that go from $80, or whatever it is now, to $175+. Of course, the track orgs will charge what the market will bear, and you're entitled to that. I'll pay it when I need or want to ride bad enough.
I don't know what you meant by racer friendly, but I think it's fair to throw out the suggestion for a discount for racers if you're making that claim. Can't blame a guy for trying...I never got my free t-shirt. :)
QuoteIf NESBA is overcharging then why are so many of the track days sold out far in advance?
street squids....
I'll play devils advocate.
The same thing is happening at RA this weekend.
NESBA has the track Wednesday Thursday. Races start Friday
The race track is also making more money by having NESBA there correct?
When does the track make more money, when LP or a private track day provider comes in and organizes a track day/race practice or when NESBA or STT come in and organize a track day?
I'm asking questions here, which sound like they should make sense. I have no internal knowings of how these business transactions work.
75 dollar practice days do kick ass though.
I think we are royally spoiled at Blackhawk by that. I'm not complaining at all.
What has the weather been like the past few years at the CCS events at Road America?
Was CCS going to rent the track and provide a practice day before the races?
If you owned a track day organization, would you take the gamble of renting an expensive track like Road America in April?
What happens when you rent a track and you have very light turnout?
When you own a track, what is the expense involved in doing your own track day for racers?
Those are just some of the questions I ask myself. It seems that a lot of people always see the glass half empty.
Hmmm....
Blackhawk practice days for racers are now becoming more crowded with riders that have aquired a racing license only to participate in racer practice days...
That will be the next issue: how will practice day providers separate racers that are racing in the weekend events from those that only "hold" a racing license to participate in racing practice.
There was a time when track days didn't exist. The only way one rode on a race track was to go out and road race.
Individuals and groups started organizations and businesses that opened up opportunities for riders and themselves for non racers to ride in a controled environment...and for a company or individual profit.
First, recognize that profit can be a good thing. And often one doesn't have it all the time. You need to make a profit today to pay for the days that one doesn't make enough to cover expenses.
In my opinion, track days have changed racing. Some track day providers now compete for premium weekend spots that racing organizations once filled. And it seems that they do seek premium dates in close proximity to specific events. Additionally, individuals that might have raced because it was the only opportunity to ride on a race track, now don't have to go and get that racing license to be on a track. That has diminished some of the revenue that racing organizations have had avaiable for administration of various things.
So, the organizations have had to try to attract more riders though having more and more classes.
Even in the early 90's, I had riders that would come to more than one of my CCS riding schools just so they could ride the track and not race.
In the competition for regular riders, track days have taken riders from racing. My opinion.
I haven't seen a regular influx of riders coming from track days to racing. It's all a bit one sided toward the track day providers. Which is too bad for racers and race providers.
On the benefit side, I think because there are more "track" riders, track day or racing, the cottage industries like bodywork, various supplies, etc. have become a bit more competitive and there are more options. Sharkskinz have not gone up substantially in forever, and there are other alternatives. Additionally, if you sell your race bike, there are more customers available to sell it to...rather than just racers.
Mel, I understand your pain.
QuoteThe race track is also making more money by having NESBA there correct?
When does the track make more money, when LP or a private track day provider comes in and organizes a track day/race practice or when NESBA or STT come in and organize a track day?
I'm with Jack...
CCS is renting the track for three days. They have a rate for those weekend dates and insurance for racing.
NESBA is renting two weekend dates for track riding and the insurance for that type of activity.
Yeah, the track is making their money, but they also have upgrades, repaving, security, etc.
If the track doesn't rent those days, well, then the store's closed now isn't it.
RA hasn't made a huge commitment like NESBA, CCS, STT, etc. They commit to the AMA National because they know they can make money. BFR commits to motorcycles because they have a long and good history with motorcyciists...track days, racing, practice...
Even when some ride pit bikes like idiots...LOL!
When does the track make more money? Might be when the sell the land to become condo's or a big subdivision. Honestly, the contracts vary, but what does it really matter.
There's probably more money to be made with any event that has a weekend date.
The ridiculous part of this whole thing is blaming a track day org for reserving a day offered to them by the track. If anyone is to blame, it's CCS, MARRC, LP, etc for not scheduling the pratice day to support the racers. But, I don't see a ****** race org crap thread. Go figure.
As far as track days selling out, we all know we have to register early 'cause tracks like Summit Main always sell out. This nothing new. Just like pre-reg to get a good grid spot, gotta plan ahead. As for individuals "over-charging" for re-selling a track day, that's simple market supply-demand (though most folks sell at face value believe it or not). Deal with it or plan ahead to get a spot at the original price. Better to buy early and re-sell if needed, right?
As far as Summit Point making money off motorcycle racing and trackdays, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the money it's making off federal government contracts for the law enforcement driving and shooting courses. That's part of the reason there are more race tracks rather than an improved Main course.
A complete regrade and repave sure would be nice though. Dream over :(
QuoteThe ridiculous part of this whole thing is blaming a track day org for reserving a day offered to them by the track. If anyone is to blame, it's CCS, MARRC, LP, etc for not scheduling the pratice day to support the racers. But, I don't see a ****** race org crap thread. Go figure.
As far as track days selling out, we all know we have to register early 'cause tracks like Summit Main always sell out. This nothing new. Just like pre-reg to get a good grid spot, gotta plan ahead. As for individuals "over-charging" for re-selling a track day, that's simple market supply-demand (though most folks sell at face value believe it or not). Deal with it or plan ahead to get a spot at the original price. Better to buy early and re-sell if needed, right?
MARRC was offered two days by Summit Point and we took both days.
QuoteIf NESBA is overcharging then why are so many of the track days sold out far in advance?
Arnie (sp) Its not NESBA that is over charging.
As far as I know MARRC took every practice day we were allowed to get. Which was two!
Amazing. It's everyone elses fault they're not putting on a practice day for racers? What kind of silly shit is that?
If practice days at Summit are such a wonderful idea then rent the track and do it yourself. Oh yeah - make sure you only charge $75 too.....
It is what it is, so GET OVER IT!!! Yeah, this does suck for a lot of racers including myself , but what are you going to do. :-/ :-/
I'm loving the complaint is about Summit which rarely had a Friday practice for bikes anyway, normally we're waiting on the men in black suits to get off the course before we're allowed on the property.