For the 2006 season, competitor pit bikes will be required to be registered for the season at Blackhawk Farms Raceway.
There will be a cost of $50 for registration for the year.
There were two injuries at Blackhawk that required transport because of accidents with pit bikes.
Additionally, there was an on track night incident at Blackhawk Farms.
More details will be coming I'm sure, but be prepared.
Holy shit, Dave - did this happen last week? :o
I was told about this new policy yesterday.
I don't know when the accidents happened.
This is a good thing. But I am curious to know how they intend to treat a legally registered and operated street vehicle (i.e., a licensed scooter)...
So while you say "well, that's a pit bike", I say "well, so is your truck that you're using to haul your tires back/forth."
Well, Jeff, I don't know. But it's private property, so they can make decisions on their own. I think that if you have it out and you're going to be riding it in the pit area, you will have to register it at the front gate when you sign the liability waver, and it will have a sticker on it identifying it as an authorized pit vehicle.
If not, it stays in the trailer or pick up.
On a nicer note... new toilet facilities at Blackhawk for 2006!
I would think so too Dave, and bottom line, it's their sandbox so anytime anyone doesn't like it they can gather their toys and leave.
I think it will curb some of the lunacy...
And new bathrooms?!! HOW SWEET IS THAT!!!
QuoteI think it will curb some of the lunacy...
I hope so. Also maybe they should start enforcing the CCS rule about competitors having their comp # on their pit bikes/quads/golf carts (see section 3.4.6 paragraph F in the 2006 rule book).
50 bucks seems a bit excessive to me.
Quote50 bucks seems a bit excessive to me.
For the whole year? Seems reasonable to me... I think they soak you for $50/weekend for AMA events.
QuoteFor the whole year? Seems reasonable to me... I think they soak you for $50/weekend for AMA events.
If I only run one event there all year, that seems like a lot to me.
Plus, how is charging 50 bucks going to stop the hooliganism?
fewer pit bikes?
Quotefewer pit bikes?
So only people that pay money to ride them don't play around? ???
Looks to me to be just another way to make a lot of money...
They wonder why people stop racing...
Well, I'll leave mine home before I pay them $50, which may be what they want. But I think I'll also skip giving them concessions and any other discretionary purchases this year too just for the heck of it.
This is the typical BS I have to put up with every day.
Instead of actually stepping up and doing something about those responsible they take the chicken way out and pass a BS rule that punishes everyone. Apparently no one's accountable for their actions anymore.
Don't tell me they have the right. I know that, but it doesn't take any brains to do something like this.
QuoteApparently no one's accountable for their actions anymore.
You can say that again......
QuoteWell, I'll leave mine home before I pay them $50, which may be what they want. But I think I'll also skip giving them concessions and any other discretionary purchases this year too just for the heck of it.
This is the typical BS I have to put up with every day.
Instead of actually stepping up and doing something about those responsible they take the chicken way out and pass a BS rule that punishes everyone. Apparently no one's accountable for their actions anymore.
Don't tell me they have the right. I know that, but it doesn't take any brains to do something like this.
100% Correct...Total BS...Why should I have to pay $50.00 to ride my pit bike when 5-10 people jacked off last year and didn't get nothing more than a slap on the wrist...
Total BS...Always take the easy way out of everything... >:(
QuoteInstead of actually stepping up and doing something about those responsible they take the chicken way out and pass a BS rule that punishes everyone. Apparently no one's accountable for their actions anymore.
BINGO - EXACTLY
Just another cow in the herd of cattle that can't take a stand and do the right thing. The whole world is goin' down the cr@pper because no one is responsible for their actions any more (must have been abused as a child - so it's not their fault right? Their actually the victim!). Punish everyone for the actions of a few instead of enforcing YOUR rules!
It's their sandbox? It'll be a deserted sand box full of weeds before I pay $50.00 for the privilege of riding a pit bike to the cr@pper.
What a joke. It's like the boarder to Mexico; if you really want it enforced, you have to get a vigilantly group together to get it done because the government sure as he!! won't stop the poor victims from coming over. They might get to vote some day!
MAN this kind of spineless cr@p P!sses me off.
I just read my post & think I may have been a little over the top. Now that I have taken a deep breath and calmed down, I'd like to restate my feelings on this...
I disagree with this policy and will not participate.
50 buckes isn't the end of the world, but I agree that it is totally the wrong way to go about curbing this problem. So what, you pay 50 bucks there still is no other obvious threat of getting a real punishment for acting like an idiot. I spent way too much time in the Military putting up with mindless blanket rules (I really enjoyed the rest!).
I am not sure what 50 dollars is going to do to fix the problem, but it sure seems like a pretty stupid way to deal with a few people that should have delt with last year by pulling their Comp Liscence; or a SERIOUS fine, if money is the real issue here.
QuoteFor the 2006 season, competitor pit bikes will be required to be registered for the season at Blackhawk Farms Raceway.
There will be a cost of $50 for registration for the year.
There were two injuries at Blackhawk that required transport because of accidents with pit bikes.
Additionally, there was an on track night incident at Blackhawk Farms.
More details will be coming I'm sure, but be prepared.
Is there a policy statement on their website? Am I supposed to register my street legal enduro I use as my pit bike or my mountain bike?
No statement, but here's a linky for contact...
http://www.blackhawkfarms.com/
I have not confirmed this but I heard that one of the two pit bike injuries last year was actually a guest of the Irwin's. The person had not signed a release form. He dumped the pit bike doing a doughnut and injured his wrist, and took an ambulance ride.
The irresponsible SOBs who abuse the pit bike privileges have earned punishment for all of us.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of the idiots who screwed this up!!!!
I agree with all of you, it's a stupid rule so they don't have to really enforce anything.
OK, I pay my $50, now I can go act as stupid as I want on my pit bike of choice? Are there any pit bike rules beyond the fee?
It sounds like a bullshit deal to me and yes, I will contact BLackhawk on this as should everyone else. Don't jump on their ass but ask them exactly what the rules are and what the fee is going to accomplish?
Just sent my questions and comments to Blackhawk.
Anyone notice Dave's original post was from 4/1/06. Seriously if this goes through I can see several tracks following the lead. $50 at a single track is one thing, just imagine if every track decided to do this. I believe this needs to be addressed now before it gets out of hand. First the tracks will charge, then the organizations and then...who knows.
QuoteI agree with all of you, it's a stupid rule so they don't have to really enforce anything.
OK, I pay my $50, now I can go act as stupid as I want on my pit bike of choice? Are there any pit bike rules beyond the fee?
It sounds like a bullshit deal to me and yes, I will contact BLackhawk on this as should everyone else. Don't jump on their ass but ask them exactly what the rules are and what the fee is going to accomplish?
Well said Gordie.
QuoteIt sounds like a bullshit deal to me and yes, I will contact BLackhawk on this as should everyone else. Don't jump on their ass but ask them exactly what the rules are and what the fee is going to accomplish?
Chastize them for NOT enforcing the rules they had and then making up new ones that (wrongly) assume that money and responsability are connected and seem (wronly I'm sure) profit, not safety driven.
If I was BHF and got bombed with the customers of my biggest single customer saying "axe this rule or we don't come to play" I'd blow the bugle and retreat and come up with a much more common sense policy...... but one with teeth.
I'd make every pit bike display a sticker given AFTER the owner read and agreed to SOP's covering pit bikes and thier use at BHF. I would have a one strike and yo're out policy which included impounding and not returning the bike until 4:00 Sunday.
I'd collect a token $10 fee to cover hard costs, the balance of which I would donate to the Wegman Fund.
Monte, you might be able to shed light on all of it...
Insurance. If you ran crappy events that had injuries, you'd probably see an increase in your rates.
It is to a point where the pit bike thing has gotten out of hand. More kids at the track, more pit bikes, etc. My gate fee is more than the $10 a weekend that my pit bike, which I have seldom ever had the luxury of owning, isn't bad. The track doesn't charge for camping. Road America does. Other tracks do. Some tracks can't even allow any camping.
Personally, I don't think that it's unreasonable to charge some kind of fee. If it reduces the number of pit bikes that are currently in the paddock, I don't see it necessarily as a bad thing. If it reduces the traffic and hooliganism, I'd be happy.
Your mileage may vary.
QuoteMonte, you might be able to shed light on all of it...
Insurance. If you ran crappy events that had injuries, you'd probably see an increase in your rates.
It is to a point where the pit bike thing has gotten out of hand. More kids at the track, more pit bikes, etc. My gate fee is more than the $10 a weekend that my pit bike, which I have seldom ever had the luxury of owning, isn't bad. The track doesn't charge for camping. Road America does. Other tracks do. Some tracks can't even allow any camping.
Personally, I don't think that it's unreasonable to charge some kind of fee. If it reduces the number of pit bikes that are currently in the paddock, I don't see it necessarily as a bad thing. If it reduces the traffic and hooliganism, I'd be happy.
Your mileage may vary.
Charging for Camping is different than this...
This policy was put in place because of the poor actions of some Racers last year, not becuase of any other reason...
The simple fact of the matter is that if BHF wants to charge for Camping, they should...
The majority of people who use a pit bike use it for quick transportation around the track, and nothing else...Why should these people have to suffer?
What is so hard about kicking some butt when the time comes? I don't understand it...
Over and Over and Over again at the Riders meetings we hear "Don't cross the blend line" and over and over again idiots do it...Man up, and fine the shit out of these people...It is NO different...
Are the Orgs so afraid to slap some people around? Do they think masses of people will just up and quit if rules (which everyone knows about) are enforced?
I don't understand what the problem is...
I am sick and tired of having to put up with this kind of crap becuase a few idiots cause drama and MANAGEMENT doesn't have the backbone to do anything about it...
Chuck Norris wouldn't put up with this and we shouldn't have to either... ;D
QuoteWell, I'll leave mine home before I pay them $50, which may be what they want. But I think I'll also skip giving them concessions and any other discretionary purchases this year too just for the heck of it.
This is the typical BS I have to put up with every day.
Instead of actually stepping up and doing something about those responsible they take the chicken way out and pass a BS rule that punishes everyone. Apparently no one's accountable for their actions anymore.
Don't tell me they have the right. I know that, but it doesn't take any brains to do something like this.
i'll jump on this bandwagon. what a bunch of crap! it's just a money making scheme. it won't solve a thing.
i tell ya what will solve it. fine anybody caught acting up on a pit bike $100. can't pay...? must leave now.
by-by.
QuoteIt is to a point where the pit bike thing has gotten out of hand. More kids at the track, more pit bikes, etc.
And to add to this...
Its not just last year, its been getting worse and worse every year. MOre than likely last year was teh straw that broke the perverbial camels back.
When you go pay the "fee" for the pitbikes, more than likely you will have to sign something which has the rules printed on the paper. I do agree that if the vehicle is street legal and has current registration, it shouldnt fall under that rule.
Ya know it could be worse. They could had just said no pitbikes period.
QuoteWhen you go pay the "fee" for the pitbikes, more than likely you will have to sign something which has the rules printed on the paper.
So why does signing a piece of paper with "rules" on it require a $50 payment? Just a way to make money...
Why not charge every person that enters the track an additional 50 bucks for a "don't do something stupid rule"... make us all sign a piece of paper...
I think that they should get everyone with pit bikes together at the first blackhawk, feed them like six cans of beer, and have a one lap pitbike heat race on the track, in the dark.
Top 20 qualify, and recieve a pit bike license. The remainder will have to walk...
It's the only logical solution.
Sent my comments and questions yesterday. No reply as of this writing. I'll keep you posted.
QuoteIts not just last year, it's been getting worse and worse every year. More than likely last year was the straw that broke the preverbal camels back.
What are you guys talking about getting worse every year... more & more kids...? My kids used to ride pits bikes. last year they could not. How did it get worse? If you want to tell me two people getting hurt on pit bikes in a year's time is some big deal you're wasting your time. And a few guys riding their bikes on that track once in a year's time. That's out of hand? Statistically it's so far at the end of the bell curve that it doesn't even exist.
There is no pit bike problem. There's an enforcement problem. A fee is to squeeze more money out of overreached racers an, of course, will not stop people from falling down & getting hurt. That's gravity. Their trying to charge a fee to change the laws of probability & gravity. Brilliant.
Quote..will not stop people from falling down & getting hurt. That's gravity. Their trying to charge a fee to change the laws of probability & gravity. Brilliant.
Nice! Are you also the dude who does the Guiness commericals? ;)
Enforce the rules. Fine the idiots. I keep my $50.00. That was easy. ;)
QuoteEnforce the rules. Fine the idiots. I keep my $50.00. That was easy. ;)
can i get another amen!!
QuoteEnforce the rules. Fine the idiots. I keep my $50.00. That was easy. ;)
Amen
;)
This sucks, cause it sets precedent... It's not going to hurt them in the least if no one brings a pit bike... pretty soon other tracks will be doing the same thing.
This is not good :(
So here's something that has not been considered.
We do not have any "OFFICIAL" word on this. Dave's not often wrong, but occassionally he is (as we all are), and he may be mis-quoting something he heard or heard 3rd party, etc.
Let's save the bra-burning for the time when we get actual word from the staff at BHF.
Now We're burning bra's?!
WTF?!
My wife already spends too much money on bra's with out me burning 'em at some track!
This is getting out of control!
QuoteNow We're burning bra's?!
WTF?!
My wife already spends too much money on bra's with out me burning 'em at some track!
This is getting out of control!
;D ;D ;D
QuoteNow We're burning bra's?!
WTF?!
My wife already spends too much money on bra's with out me burning 'em at some track!
This is getting out of control!
So Steve, are you going to be taking on new roles as Mr. Mom?
Have you joined the LaLeche League yet? Might want to get rolling on that one..... could be a little bit of ah, 'training' in store for you!! ;D
Rick
QuoteSo here's something that has not been considered.
We do not have any "OFFICIAL" word on this. Dave's not often wrong, but occassionally he is (as we all are), and he may be mis-quoting something he heard or heard 3rd party, etc.
Let's save the bra-burning for the time when we get actual word from the staff at BHF.
Cindy Robinson of Blackhawk Farms Raceway told me the new policy on April 12th in person. We talked for several minutes on the topic afterwards also. I asked her if it was ok if I got the word out. She said that would be fine.
I cannot say that if it will be similar things at Heartland Park Topeka, as I do not know.
I hope they think of a better way to get the information out... otherwise there will be a lot of pissed off people at the first race...
I bet there will be a lot of pissed off people regardless of how the info is put out..
I'm bringing a lawn chair to the riders meeting, its gonna be a long one!
QuoteI bet there will be a lot of pissed off people regardless of how the info is put out..
I'm bringing a lawn chair to the riders meeting, its gonna be a long one!
You're going to have to since you won't have a pit bike to sit on (unless you pay the fee of course).
Well thanks to the antics of last years CCS races at Summit point no pit vehicles are aloud outside the paddock. I would like to meet the a$$hats on the 4 wheelers that got hurt just so I could thank them for ruining a good thing. Now when my handicapped mother comes to the race she is not allowed to leave the paddock on her golf cart.
I think the racing orgs an tracks need to take a stiffer stance with the offenders other than punishing the rest of us. An now thanks to the imature jacka$$s they are digging even farter into racers pockets
Thanks but no thanks
I'm with you there.
Too often, there have been infractions of reasonable and known parameters of conduct and safety in the paddock and on track that have been broken.
There hasn't been enough done to make the penalties enough of a burden to the individuals that are breaking those rules.
If those who represent the organization renting the track cannot maintain a their members, even if they are a minor few, in a way that is condusive to proper safety practices...
If the ownership of a property can't get a management staff to do what is necessary, why should they risk their overall liability for themselves or other customers?
I don't think they should have to. And things seem to have gotten out of hand...my opinion. Others may vary.
As for getting the information out...
What would be a better way? You know now, rather than later. Will Blackhawk Farms feel that is it necessary to nire extra security for the night time? They have said that in the past.
Community policing hasn't seemed to work. And I don't know of any real penalties or fines that have been levied that offered any general deterrence.
So let me nit-pick a little..
If I have a registered license plate on my scooter and we can drive our trucks/cars in the paddock, is my scooter (licensed motor vehicle) exempt and I don't have to pay the 50?
FWIW...isn't the racer already responsible for his/her actions as well as their crew/guests? Doesn't that include pit bikes after race hours? So put numbers on the pit bikes and let the rest of us who stay at the track inforce the rule if we see it; or get the track manager and let them escort the racer and crew off the track for the duration of the weekend.
I think it would be better to sell pit bike arm bands, if they want to go this route. The problem is not the number of pit bikes, it the people riding them.
I don't think the individuals who caused problems in the past were dealt with. The only dealing I saw was to punish everyone, which was weird and kindergardenish.
Heather of the wobbly wheeled Elite.
Tell Stumpy he needs to get that thing fixed! He wrecked it...
Hey, so are you guys coming to Road A this weekend? Weather is looking nice. Even nicer for someone from Marquette!
QuoteHeather of the wobbly wheeled Elite.
QuoteTell Stumpy he needs to get that thing fixed! He wrecked it...
Hey, so are you guys coming to Road A this weekend? Weather is looking nice. Even nicer for someone from Marquette!
You know I make him feel bad about it, too.
As of now, it's looking positive for us to go down. My last race as a childless Heather! (If you don't count the dog or husband!) We'll bring the Mule to tote my pregnant butt around in.
Heather
Great! After eight years I finally get a pit bike, and now this? >:( ::)
Blackhawk Farms Raceway has instituted a new policy surrounding Support Pit Vehicles for the 2006 season.
As most of those discussing this post may (or may not) know, there has been a recent history of abuse, flagrant disregard for safety, track rules and event specific guidelines at Blackhawk Farms Raceway during various events with Pit Vehicles.
Last year's experience from both a safety perspective & blatant disregard for Track rules forced BFR mgmt. to develop a zero tolerance policy to deter this behaviour, while still allowing for the appropriate usage of Pit Vehicles for Race Support in the safest manner possible for participants.
Unfortunately, such a policy has business costs involved, hence the registration fee.
to clarify the new pit vehicle policy for Blackhawk Farms Raceway, please reference the link below:
http://www.blackhawkfarms.com//bhf/pdfs/bfr_pit_vehicle_policy.pdf
This registration form / process is now required by ALL competitors, crew, event workers, vendors that would like to utilize Pit Vehicles on BFR facilities. Spectators are NOT ALLOWED TO RIDE, OPERATE PIT VEHICLES FOR ANY REASON. Those who wish to use a Pit Vehicle must purchase a single event or an annual sticker, in addition to agreeing to BFR Pit Vehicle rules. Pedal Bikes are excluded from this consideration.
This policy shall be in force beginning April 1, 2006.
Blackhawk Farms Raceway Mgmt.
Thats the biggest crock of shit I heard in a long time, Its just another way the track NAZIS have figured out to get into racers pockets, If someone had some balls they would tell Blackhawk to stick the entire deal right in ther ass, Its not like they have a 5 star track or anything
It seems odd that Road America had a fatality a few years ago when a women fell from one of their golf carts. Yet their insurance company hasn't mandated they register every pit bike and charge more than the DMV to cover "business costs."
This is going to apply to the "car" people too. Right?
It's not about the money, it's the safety aspect of it all.
We've got some people in our little community that get stupid and careless, and because they've screwed up, we're dealing with basic group punishment.
For example,
I've been coming to Blackhawk for 14 years now with Doc, and when I was 12, I was nearly run over by a large black pickup while I was on MY pitbike that is utilized by all members of Doxgon Racing. For a long time after that, I just didn't ride at the tracks because as a minor and member of the pitcrew, it was unnecessary.
I've noticed that there have been a lot of kids (I use that term loosely) that assume that since they can do this at home they can do it at the track. They end up nearly or actually causing minor bangups in the paddock.
As far as Team Doxgon is concerned, there really isn't anything wrong with the new policy, albeit that it is slightly inconvenient for those who already have problems managing this most expensive of hobbies.
Wish I was going to be at RA with you guys! Instead of singing the anthem for you, I'll be in a Shakespearean play for school. But I'm probably going to blow off Prom to be there at Blackhawk.
QuoteBlackhawk Farms Raceway has instituted a new policy surrounding Support Pit Vehicles for the 2006 season.
As most of those discussing this post may (or may not) know, there has been a recent history of abuse, flagrant disregard for safety, track rules and event specific guidelines at Blackhawk Farms Raceway during various events with Pit Vehicles.
Last year's experience from both a safety perspective & blatant disregard for Track rules forced BFR mgmt. to develop a zero tolerance policy to deter this behaviour, while still allowing for the appropriate usage of Pit Vehicles for Race Support in the safest manner possible for participants.
Unfortunately, such a policy has business costs involved, hence the registration fee.
to clarify the new pit vehicle policy for Blackhawk Farms Raceway, please reference the link below:
http://www.blackhawkfarms.com//bhf/pdfs/bfr_pit_vehicle_policy.pdf
This registration form / process is now required by ALL competitors, crew, event workers, vendors that would like to utilize Pit Vehicles on BFR facilities. Spectators are NOT ALLOWED TO RIDE, OPERATE PIT VEHICLES FOR ANY REASON. Those who wish to use a Pit Vehicle must purchase a single event or an annual sticker, in addition to agreeing to BFR Pit Vehicle rules. Pedal Bikes are excluded from this consideration.
This policy shall be in force beginning April 1, 2006.
Blackhawk Farms Raceway Mgmt.
Still it doesnt clarify if "pit vehicle" includes a STREET TITLED & REGISTERED bike. So if someone brings thier normal streetbike in a trailer is that considered now a "pit bike"?
Funny, lawsuits and insurance companies are always getting the responsibility. Why didn't management take responsibilty and kick those offenders out last year, or fine them, and then kick them out?
We all sign a waiver each weekend. How is an extra $50 gonna put more teeth in the waiver? (Shit, I ride my bicycle around as PB, anyway...)
Quote But I'm probably going to blow off Prom to be there at Blackhawk.
A girl with the proper priorieties! ;D
Quote Another 5k/year in pit bike fees means nothing to their bottom line (that's not the motivation
Not entirely true. Autobahn has taken a ton of revenue away from Blackhawk, especially midweek. They're feeling the pinch, believe me. Why do you think they built new bathrooms? Suddenly, Blackhawk isn't the only game in town.
QuoteFunny, lawsuits and insurance companies are always getting the responsibility. Why didn't management take responsibilty and kick those offenders out last year, or fine them, and then kick them out?
We all sign a waiver each weekend. How is an extra $50 gonna put more teeth in the waiver? (Shit, I ride my bicycle around as PB, anyway...)
I guess I have to ask this question...
Did the offenders last year get injured? Not that I know of. However, there were two injuries last year. That was what I was told. So, the BS that was going on would not be directly related to a potential increase in insurance costs, but pit bike injuries would.
We pay fees for entering races. That covers various insurance costs. If one has a street bike, I would assume that your insurance coverage might cover injuries that one might sustain on private property, but I don't know.
Perhaps some are connecting the dots correctly. Yeah, the hooliganism isn't right, but it might not have had the result of requiring the pit bike fee, but the injuries while on pit bikes did.
QuoteStill it doesnt clarify if "pit vehicle" includes a STREET TITLED & REGISTERED bike. So if someone brings thier normal streetbike in a trailer is that considered now a "pit bike"?
Actual questions should be given to Blackhawk Farms at 815-389-2000.
QuoteNot entirely true. Autobahn has taken a ton of revenue away from Blackhawk, especially midweek. They're feeling the pinch, believe me. Why do you think they built new bathrooms? Suddenly, Blackhawk isn't the only game in town.
Biggest substantial revenue loss for Blackhawk Farms Raceway was the repaving. The repaving cost nearly a half a million dollars and it caused the good number of Formula Atlantic teams to stop testing at Blackhawk because it no longer was a good track to test and set up racers for rough street courses. Car people pay a great deal of money for practice time.
QuoteI understand the frustration completely, but if I owned the track and my insurance went up, or I got sued because of that, I'd do something similar.
I don't think it has anything to do with frustration. It's just a cost. Cost of the track went up when insurance costs went up. Cost of the track went up when the new pavement went up. Costs when up when Blackhawk had to hire lawyers in 2001/2002 to make sure that they could make noise, even though the track has been there for nearly 40 years. Costs went up when IEPA and IDNR showed up and declared Blackhawk a used tire depot and that the tires had a risk for West Nile Disease.
I think those things get passed through as part of the overall track rental to organizations in the form of entry fees, etc. However, pit bikes, or however other items might be related, are not entered into races. These might have a different cost or K&K is starting to view them differently.
Again, I don't think this is directly related to the hooliganism, but directly related to the injuries. I've seen them, pit bike injuries, before at other tracks.
Yeah, the messin' around needs to stop. Needs to be taken care of, but I don't think it's necessarily related to the $50 pit bike registration.
QuoteStill it doesnt clarify if "pit vehicle" includes a STREET TITLED & REGISTERED bike. So if someone brings thier normal streetbike in a trailer is that considered now a "pit bike"?
so long as you have proof of valid registration, and a valid license on the vehicle in question, this would be excluded from the new policy. In this case, standard IDOT rules/laws apply.
This program is being extended to all clubs at Blackhawk Farms Raceway, not just motorcycle programs.
QuoteI was referring to racer's or spectator's frustration here, like watching stunters ride wheelies and dump antifreeze all over the track during lunch while we walk around the pits.
Now that's a separate issue...LOL!
UNIONIZE NOW!
I REFUSE to be nickled and dimed... when a race weekend at BHF comes up I will stay home and GOLF !
I have never been associated with anyother hobby that so many people try and get in your pockets in one way or another...
I think if you own a race track or a racing organization, it's worse.
Call Kevin Elliott and ask him about insurance rates and track rental rates.
State legislation that is needed for tire walls.
All the organizations that have their standards.
Tracks that have their standards and special fees.
We play in an area that normal people don't, and when stuff happens, the insurance dudes pay out and charge.
I feel bad, Dan, but it's part of it.
When I started road racing, it was $30 for my first race, $20 for my second, and $10 for everyone after that. Insurance, track costs, etc. pushed that all up. I haven't seen any track owners getting filthy rich from the racing side, but track days have helped, and I don't see any racing organization owners raking in huge dollars for the dramatic efforts that they have to go through when I rake them through the coals, let alone others too.
Blackhawk's pretty easy to get around. I usually walk. Some race tracks don't allow bicycles. Some tracks have quiet time when you'd think you'd be practicing. It's going to be different place to place.
Maybe its the whole FIFTY dollars for pit-bikes... half of the racers dont even have a FIFTY dollar pit pike PERIOD ! ha ha !
Maybe make the fee 5 dollars... I will still bitch about it, but it would not seem so rediculous.
Maybe the track owners should realize that the more little crap they do to cast a negative light on me attending the race weekends, the more likely I am to stay home and find other activities to fill my time.
QuoteMaybe the track owners should realize that the more little crap they do to cast a negative light on me attending the race weekends, the more likely I am to stay home and find other activities to fill my time.
LOL!
Yeah, it works both ways...
Maybe track owners should realize that there would be less head aches if they sold their property off to make a nice country subdivision too. After all, with all the people that don't follow the simplest of rules and complain about everything...is it really worth it?
Subject: Enquiry from Blackhawk Farms Raceway
New Pit Bike Policy.
There has been a lot of discussion in regards to the proposed policy. I understand your concerns and believe that registering the pit bikes would be a good idea. However I feel that the $50.00 charge for this process is a bit excessive and would do little more than to punish those who have observed the existing rules. I believe it would more effective to initiate a two-strikes your out policy that would fine the rider $50-100.00 for the first offense and impound the bike for an additional offense. I hope that we can resolve this issue before the May opening date so we can start the season on a positive note.
Ben Clauss
CCS MW #174
Ben,
clarification on the fees associated with the new policy: $50.00 for the year; $15.00 per event.
BFR agrees with some of your considerations, reference the posted policy:
http://www.blackhawkfarms.com//bhf/pdfs/bfr_pit_vehicle_policy.pdf
However, to your point, introduction of fines based on offenses are difficult as the track is not in position to collect , track the frequency (1 strike, 2 strikes) and ultimately enforce. Instead, the penalities levied are within full control of the track, at mgmt. / security's discretion;
1) impound the vehicle
2) remove the offender from the facilties
3) bar the competitor / racer from competing in the event in question
4) ban the racer from competing for the season at the facilties
Although this policy may seem harsh, perception might even consider this to be an extreme measure....However, the alternative risk is no longer acceptable based on previous experiences.
As you know, pit vehicles are NOT required for racing, but a nice ammenity and priviledge we want to continue to support and allow in the safest manner possible.
Blackhawk Farms Raceway Mgmt.
QuoteI REFUSE to be nickled and dimed... when a race weekend at BHF comes up I will stay home and GOLF !
I have never been associated with anyother hobby that so many people try and get in your pockets in one way or another...
;D You obviously haven't golfed much!
Quoteso long as you have proof of valid registration, and a valid license on the vehicle in question, this would be excluded from the new policy. In this case, standard IDOT rules/laws apply.
Perfect... Glad I registered and insured that Zuma...
Always followed the rules and will continue to do so. I'm glad to be able to use my zuma.
QuoteI hope so. Also maybe they should start enforcing the CCS rule about competitors having their comp # on their pit bikes/quads/golf carts (see section 3.4.6 paragraph F in the 2006 rule book).
PMed ya Rob... ;D Thanks again!!
QuotePMed ya Rob... ;D Thanks again!!
PM'ed back. ;D Glad to hear it was something simple.
But back on subject.
From a cornerworkers view here. We have enough to watch with the bikes on track. We dont need to be babysitting people in the infield (generally turn 3 and main gate areas are notorious for shenanigans on pitbikes.
Quote;D You obviously haven't golfed much!
I suck at golf... LOL !
QuoteI suck at golf... LOL !
It's not how well you play the game. It's that you have fun...
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.joblo.com%2Fnewsimages1%2Ffloundergeek.jpg&hash=a4a61a984a23358fcc4ae3fa70d260533ac6b1fc)
QuoteI suck at golf... LOL !
Bet I'm worse. ;D
I have SUCH a bad slice I literally have to aim 60 degress to the left of the hole to hit the greens from the tee on par 3's. ;D
QuotePerfect... Glad I registered and insured that Zuma...
Always followed the rules and will continue to do so. I'm glad to be able to use my zuma.
Here's your cookie....
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cookiesinheaven.com%2Fimages%2Fcookies%2Fchocolate_chip_cookie.jpg&hash=4211af1d44ea6db99dc8284abbf27770d09722a6)
So, who IS bringing their pit bike? Being that Blackhawk is small, compared to some Tracks, is it even worth bringing!?
Quote from: ssduc750 on April 25, 2006, 07:27:00 PM
So, who IS bringing their pit bike? Being that Blackhawk is small, compared to some Tracks, is it even worth bringing!?
Not I. I usually bring two... one for my brother and one for me. I think they're worth bringing, but not worth paying money to ride.
I guess it will save me some money in gas since I won't be hauling an extra 300-400 pounds.
I personally am outraged... I refuse to attend future races at BFR ;D
Quote from: tstruyk on April 26, 2006, 07:09:20 PM
I personally am outraged... I refuse to attend future races at BFR ;D
LOL! Nice!
::)
So pedal bikes are fine then and no need to pay the $50 charge????
QuoteSo pedal bikes are fine then and no need to pay the $50 charge?
That is correct based on what I read earlier in the thread. That's what I'm bringing.
I think that it is crap because it states in the policy that only competiors or vendors can ride pit bikes. I would not be able to walk from our pit to the bathrooms as many times a day as I pee. I have an injury that is really bothered by walking on the surface there. I came home after the boat races last year and was at the surgeon the next day. I can understand not letting every little kid and person out there riding them. But I was not the one messing around, last time I checked I still paid a gate fee, we still put out like 500 bucks a weekend for Vic to ride there. I don't think it's fair for people like me (I'd like to watch the start and then scoot over somewhere to watch the rest of the race) Things like this are part of the reason that I am really leaning towards not racing at all this year. I love the people but the rules are bullshit.
Quote from: msbrit1 on May 02, 2006, 12:37:25 AM
I think that it is crap because it states in the policy that only competiors or vendors can ride pit bikes.
Are you part of his crew? Ie his team manager;) ? Well from them, "ALL competitors, crew, event workers, vendors that would like to utilize Pit Vehicles on BFR facilities.". Since I'd say you fall under "crew". Or just bring a street legal bike to ride around.
As for the rules being bullshit, well they could had just said no to them altogether. Hell 2 of our cornerworkers have to pay this for their mules that they USE for track business.
Quote from: cbr806 on April 29, 2006, 11:55:00 PM
That is correct based on what I read earlier in the thread. That's what I'm bringing.
Cool thanks
Looking back on all this...
Most of us knew stuff was going on. Most of us, however, weren't out there doing the stuff that was questionable and incorrect. But by not saying anything to a CCS official or to BFR management, I think we allowed it to escalate.
If the community doesn't take an active role in looking down upon an action among it's community, well, then we all end up paying in the end.
Pit bikes are not a requirement. They are a nice convienience. For many, they are just not in their budget.
My entry fees goes towards paying CCS officials, a purse, the required liability insurance for racing, the track rental, and for the secondary medical coverage that CCS provides.
Because some people have been butt wipes during CCS events, CCS and SCCA competitors are being charged for the cost of an extra security guard and the cost of an ATV for that person to ride. I don't see where, as a CCS competitor, I should pay extra to amoratize the ability for individuals that make a decision to have a pit bike.
Do we pay enough? Everything will cost more over time. That part I can say for sure.
I just don't think that it's fair that I should have to bring a street legal bike to the track to ride....well cause we don't have one. And I know that things cost money but I don't agree with the fact that I can't ride a bike that I brought to a track that I paid money to get in to that I payed part of the entry fees for.
Quote from: Super Dave on May 02, 2006, 08:26:26 AM
Looking back on all this...
Most of us knew stuff was going on. Most of us, however, weren't out there doing the stuff that was questionable and incorrect. But by not saying anything to a CCS official or to BFR management, I think we allowed it to escalate.
If the community doesn't take an active role in looking down upon an action among it's community, well, then we all end up paying in the end.
SD...I am sorry but that is a total cop out and total BS...
Why should I (or anyone else) have to police my fellow racers? What are we going to do, put them under citizen's arrest? The plain and simple fact of the matter is that CCS Management and/or Blackhawk Farms Management did not have the backbone to punish these people like they should have...
Now, if these people would have been punished and then they still did this fee for pit bikes, we could all say they are just tring to price gouge us...
But the fact is they DID NOT punish these people, and ARE NOW charging a fee for pit bike use TELLS ME and EVERYONE else that this is NOTHING more than a COP OUT by management that doesn't have the backbone to smack some people around...
You know what pisses me off the most? MOST of the offenders are NOT EVEN RACING AT BLACKHAWK THIS YEAR!!!!! So they just really f'd it up for everyone, and can just sit back and laugh about it...I know who was out there, and I know the power that be know who was out there, and they still DID NOTHING...
I can tell you two things...
I will not be brining my pit bike to Blackhawk
And I will not be racing at Blackhawk the rest of the year...If I would not have pre-regd for backhawk before this became public, I wouldn't have even gone this weekend...Too bad, I really like the track...
Nothing pisses me off more than being punished for something I didn't do...
Quote from: extrakt0r on May 03, 2006, 12:27:54 AM
SD...I am sorry but that is a total cop out and total BS...
Why should I (or anyone else) have to police my fellow racers? What are we going to do, put them under citizen's arrest? The plain and simple fact of the matter is that CCS Management and/or Blackhawk Farms Management did not have the backbone to punish these people like they should have...
Nothing pisses me off more than being punished for something I didn't do...
No, I wouldn't expect to put them under citizens arrest. But some shit has been going on for some time. You can tell someone to slow down in the paddock when they are going to fast. It happens, and racers that know better fall down in the pits.
As for being punished for something you didn't do...
Yeah, I agree that this sucks. But the track has not condoned this. CCS hasn't. But members of the organization, riders, didn't bother speakin' up to CCS officials or BFR management either.
As for being punished for something you didn't do...
Liability insurance is part of every track day entry and racing entry. It was a lot less expensive before you got here... :) Not my fault either, or yours, but I have been punished for many, many years with increasing entry costs. I haven't sued, and I haven't had a claim through any racing organization.
Pit bikes are a privelage that we'll have to pay for. We don't have a right to it. Sorry if I'm on the facility owner's side on this. I don't want my entry fees to go up because of it, and I don't think that everyone should pay because a few people want to bring a pit bike to the track.
extracktor.......you are going to punish yourself by not racing at blackhawk? what the hell sense does that make?
so you don't like the new pit bike deal, so? it's the deal and we have to live with it, or not, as you choose to do but to stop racing there because of it is ridiculous. don't bring a pit bike and you don't have to pay, it's as simple as that.
this doesn't affect just us, it's everyone at the track, cars, go karts, everyone. yeah, i don't like the way they did this either and i let them know it by an email but it's not going to keep me away from the track.
Quote from: Super Dave on May 03, 2006, 02:23:11 AMBut members of the organization, riders, didn't bother speakin' up to CCS officials or BFR management either.
I was at the BHF were we were not allowed to ride pit bikes in the morning the next day after the incident(s) took place. I remember someone at the riders meeting speaking up rather loudly that the people commited the infractions be punished severely.
I distinctly remember this person (don't know their name) speaking it and the dude giving the riders meeting speach blowing him off.
Rising costs are just that Dave... EVERYTHING has gone up. Are you telling me they can
directly attribute some rise in their costs to allowing pit bikes? Those rules they printed on that flyer are pretty much what CCS says you shouldn't do already. For people's 50 bucks, I better see some rent-a-cop preventing people from getting run over by a wayward pit-bike. ;)
Agreed. That was an incident that occured. The track took care of that, was my feeling. CCS could have went further. Didn't.
It wasn't the single thing that caused the new policy. There were no injuries in that overnight incident.
The $50 a pit bike for the season will pay for the extra security guard and the ATV that Blackhawk Farms Raceway is purchasing to secure their property. If pit bikes were not allowed, there wouldn't have been a pit bike accident and there certainly shouldn't have been a pit bike incident on the track overnight.
QuoteIt is not the tracks responsibility to get rid of your trash. Take your old tires, fuel cans and other stuff with you! I gave the tires to Tom Mason who agreed to dispose of them.
You people complain about costs yet do stuff like this that cause the tracks to increase rental fees and such because they have to dispose of your garbage. This is stuff they can't just toss in a garbage truck it has to be diposed of through channels that cost them money.
I robbed this from another post...
But the issue is similar. So much has to be ala carte now. It's too bad, but there's so much money to be lost.
Quote from: weggieman on May 03, 2006, 10:27:17 AM
extracktor.......you are going to punish yourself by not racing at blackhawk? what the hell sense does that make?
so you don't like the new pit bike deal, so? it's the deal and we have to live with it, or not, as you choose to do but to stop racing there because of it is ridiculous. don't bring a pit bike and you don't have to pay, it's as simple as that.
this doesn't affect just us, it's everyone at the track, cars, go karts, everyone. yeah, i don't like the way they did this either and i let them know it by an email but it's not going to keep me away from the track.
I actually live in Kansas City, and run the Great Plains region as my home region...So me going to Blackhawk is becuase I want to go there, not because I have to...I go there because I like the track, the same with Barber...I really like Barber and will make the trek down there in August to race...
I am a principals person...Money isn't the issue...I could care less if the fee was $100.00...If they would have 1st punished these people and THEN did this fee, I would be ok with it, but they didn't do that, and that is why I am mad about the deal...
So, I am not going to go out of my way to race there, unless it is in my home region and required for points...
Quote from: Super Dave on May 03, 2006, 11:26:18 AM
If pit bikes were not allowed, there wouldn't have been a pit bike accident and there certainly shouldn't have been a pit bike incident on the track overnight.
100% False...If CCS Managemant and/or BHF Managemant would actually punish people, people wouldn't break the rules...
If people didn't go to jail for murder, people would just kill people all the time...
If people didn't get tickets, everyone would speed all the time...
If people got punished when they crossed the blend line, they wouldn't do it...
If people got punished when they rode their pit bikes on the track at night, they wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't have to pay money to use my pit bike...
When we live in a world with no punishment, people do what they want, when they want...
Period. There is no arguement to that... :)
Quote from: extrakt0r on May 03, 2006, 12:29:44 PM
100% False...If CCS Managemant and/or BHF Managemant would actually punish people, people wouldn't break the rules...
Injuries were sustained by individuals apart from the incident. Punishment of the individuals involved in "the incident" by Blackhawk Farms management or the CCS staff would not have served either the specific or general deterence that would have stopped the injuries.
Yeah, I think maybe there should have been a punishment.
Let's say there was no incident. We still have the accidents. Regardless, there are issues there, and I think that at a club event the intent is to race. Having or holding a racing license doesn't imply a right to have, hold, or ride a pit bike. You can't ride a bicycle at Daytona, period. Other tracks have specific things too.
Blame the lawyers. You can sign wavers all day long, but companies involved in racing still get sued. There is a recognition of reasonable risk to riders on track. The tracks are now being informed that they have risk through pit vehicles.
Most amateurs should feel lucky that they can race 1000cc fours if they had them, because in the years and years prior, they were not allowed for amateur/novice racers. Things change. Pit bikes might be something that change for all tracks.
BTW, not to cause further controversy but after talking with a track employee today I was told that registered street legal vehicles will not be subject to the fee...I'm bringing a Zuma. Put the license plate on today!
Quote from: LMsports on May 04, 2006, 01:28:00 AM
BTW, not to cause further controversy but after talking with a track employee today I was told that registered street legal vehicles will not be subject to the fee...I'm bringing a Zuma. Put the license plate on today!
Just make sure your reg is current. ;D
Are you bringing the flags too? :D
Quote from: LMsports on May 04, 2006, 01:28:00 AM
BTW, not to cause further controversy but after talking with a track employee today I was told that registered street legal vehicles will not be subject to the fee...I'm bringing a Zuma. Put the license plate on today!