was wondering what video camera's people were using to record while they race or do track days.....also was wondering what mounting options were better, helmet cams or just on the bike..... thanks
Mike Casey with motovid.com knows a lot about the equipment. I don't know if he's doing it again this year, but he knows the technologies.
Get a bullet/lipstick/helmet camera. They're great, better than mounting a dvcam on your tank, and you can place it out of the way and in various spots.
Check out www.onbike.tv , they have all kinds of equipment and remote controls and stuff and everything you need. I use their equipment and it's great!
http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/product_info/overview/index__cat_id--11140000,prod_id--309843477.html
I haven't had it out on the bike yet (did I mention I hate winter) but this is what I'm going to use. It also comes with a bullit cam that you could attatch to the helmet. The remote bullit doesn't have fantastic picture quality and it is a little big but the regular camera is just a little bigger than a cell phone.
512 MB won't get you far at high res recording.... maybe 5 mins of recording time.
mike how is the 125???? its joe remeber the aprilia we use to have some good battles...
anyway i looked at the site what do you recommend? what do u use?
i was thinking bout that samsung sport cam but the 512 said at high res it is only like 20 minutes of video and at 500 bucks that isnt ogood at all...
sorry bout the face accidently hit it
thanks everyone
mike where do you mount your cam? on your helmet or on the bike itself and where on the bike if on the bike? where do you putthe recorder yourself and what recorder are u using?
sorry for all the questions...
I'm using a 1G stick and will not be using the high res. Something to consider is the nature of the eviroment, with all the vibration on the bike (look at the onboard video at blackhawkfarms.com) there isn't really much point to high res. The reason I went with the samsung is the absolute lack of moving parts. most of the camcorders on the market use harddrives, tapes or dvds to store the video. all of these are suseptible to vibration and won't live long on the bike. Years ago I used a hi8 camcorder in a race car, roll bar mount, the camera lasted about 6 races and I lost the head amp. A small circuit that lives in the video head. Cost of new head totaled the camera. Whatever you get make sure that it can take a high vibration enviroment or the manufacturer/seller will stand behind the warrantee.
Stumpy and Motovid used Viosport cams. www.viosport.com
Heather
the best system we found were high res lipstick cams, 480 - 520 lines of resolution from Viosport.com, attached to a solid state recording device, preferably MPEG2 format, also used for DVD encoding.
Motovid.com videobike systems have used MPEG2 video @ 3Mbps compression, providing 22 mins. of footage on a 512MB SD chip.... using 1GB SD chips, we capture 44 mins., 2 GB SD chips 88 mins.
All videos posted online are further compressed 10:1 simply to make it an acceptable web video download....similar to MPEG4. Motovid.com provides DVDs @ the track as the medium of choice, these trailers are ancillary, used as promos and *extras for our clients, customers.
This year, motovid.com will decrease the compression ( which increases the quaility) from 3Mbps to 6Mbps or 100% better than last year leveraging the availability of more memory on a chip. Technology rocks!
unfortunately, MPEG4 doesnt have the available encoding profile (read: level of acceptable compression, just yet) implemented within any consumer digital video, camcorder, recording devices.....no doubt they are coming soon....
so depending how much you want to spend, expect to spend approx. 250.00 - 300.00 for the 480 - 520 lines of resolution lipstick cams....
thereafter, the recording devices, approx. 700.00 for a sony, panasonic unit, upwards of 5000.00 for the stac encoder unit which supports HOURS of MPEG2 video, with data acquisition, 8 channels included.
hope this helps,
michael casey
motovid.com
Quoteunfortunately, MPEG4 doesnt have the available encoding profile (read: level of acceptable compression, just yet) implemented within any consumer digital video, camcorder, recording devices.....no doubt they are coming soon....
By acceptable do you mean video quality or compression?
Joe... what's up... of course I remember.
so blah blah.. here's the skinny.
Get a Sony, or canon DV cam - something with line-in recording, and LANC capability. (allows you to use a remote control). Cost ~300-400. I have the Sony DCR-HC32 MiniDV, tons of them for sale on ebay. ~$350.
Get a onbike.tv Pro 480 Video Kit (bullet cam, 2, yes 2, rechargeable batts., mic, mount, everything you need) - $300
Done.
Currently I have 1 bullet cam mounted in the nose... cut a hole in the fron fairing nose and mount it on the top of the underside of the front fairing. My second camera is mounted on the top of the tail. You can move them around and mount them wherever... nose, tail, side fairing, helmet, front wheel fairing, etc... That's the beauty of having a bullet cam. you can get all kinda cool angles. Just mount it with strong velcro, and wrap a piece of duct tape over it for added safety. 2 years ago, I mounted it to my swingarm, and got that slide-n-slide crash video.
AS for the DV cam, I wrap it in bubblewrap and shove it inthe nose of the front fairing. There's no vibration, I've never had problems and this is my second DV cam I've used. Unless you like the shitty quality of watching them compressed, use HI RES. They are AWESOME when you watch them on a DVD on your TV. WAAAAAYYYYYY better than the quality what you see on the net.
I'll be at Jennings this weekend, CMP, in 2 weeks, and Summit May 6 wknd, if you want to come check out my setup.
Here are some older pictures I took of how I mount the one in the front..
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsantelia.org%2Fimg%2Fposts%2FFrontfairing.jpg&hash=1db240da29929161a18e799367ada9816999bf12)
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsantelia.org%2Fimg%2Fposts%2FFrontfairinginside.jpg&hash=1c7e937f265c17e9698816dee28f5606aebe7674)
QuoteBy acceptable do you mean video quality or compression?
well- that is the point, more compression alters the video quality relatively.... so to determine the level of compression that IS acceptable, take a look at the compression used....we found most people compare DVD, or Cable TV (sometimes digital) so our systems use MPEG2.....MPEG4 is simply not ready in any known consumer device....the samsung unit is close, but no cigar....not yet.
On the topic of the recording device.....ecumike suggests using a DV cam, or miniDV....the problem goes with all systems that utilize moving parts.... adverse conditions such as road racing does tremendous damage to the mechanical units beyond the damage to the footage being encoded....
hence the consideration for solid state memory, ala no moving parts.... its the way to go....more pricey at the onset, but cheaper in the long run and better all around.....
Over the last couple of years, we not only had multiple onboard crashes (unamed racers, instructors, videobike pilots) we did not lose a frame during the situations....nor did the capture units themselves receive any damage...
any camcorder, miniDV that has mechanical / moving parts, most likely would have experienced some damage to the unit or captured footage.... our systems did not....
capturing to a solid state memory is best for adverse conditions such as road racing, hands down.
QuoteOver the last couple of years, we not only had multiple onboard crashes (unamed racers, instructors, videobike pilots) we did not lose a frame during the situations....nor did the capture units themselves receive any damage...
WHAT?!!!?!!!
VIDEO BIKES DON'T CRASH!!! ;D
QuoteWHAT?!!!?!!!
VIDEO BIKES DON'T CRASH!!! ;D
well - they're not supposed to!!@!@
MOST video bikes dont crash... (supports the mantra)
Heather, say hey to stumpy, hope to see you guys out here someday ;-)
Quotewell- that is the point, more compression alters the video quality relatively.... so to determine the level of compression that IS acceptable, take a look at the compression used....we found most people compare DVD, or Cable TV (sometimes digital) so our systems use MPEG2.....MPEG4 is simply not ready in any known consumer device....the samsung unit is close, but no cigar....not yet.
I don't understand, the samsung is solidstate, no moving parts, uses mpeg4 at bitrates upto 6Mbps (I believe DVD is 8 ) and 22 min at 720 and 6Mbps with 1G memory stick pro. What is it about the samsung that is not there yet? The remote bullit cam is not going to cut it as it is a cmos device and very low res but the samsung will accept any of the remote cameras you have recommended.
I realize that the equipment you are using is higher quality (it is also paying for itself) but I think for the racer that wants this as a tool to replay his session in a calmer enviroment I think this is a very viable package. I understand racerx196's sentiment about the $500 price tag but honestly I don't see anything else even close in terms of price.
QuoteI don't understand, the samsung is solidstate, no moving parts, uses mpeg4 at bitrates upto 6Mbps (I believe DVD is 8 ) and 22 min at 720 and 6Mbps with 1G memory stick pro. What is it about the samsung that is not there yet? The remote bullit cam is not going to cut it as it is a cmos device and very low res but the samsung will accept any of the remote cameras you have recommended.
I realize that the equipment you are using is higher quality (it is also paying for itself) but I think for the racer that wants this as a tool to replay his session in a calmer enviroment I think this is a very viable package. I understand racerx196's sentiment about the $500 price tag but honestly I don't see anything else even close in terms of price.
To a certain extent, I agree with you, including pricepoint; the only consideration you should think about is how do you suppose you will watch your sessions or archives? As it relates to the format (mpeg4 versus mpeg2) this is an important detail. On a computer, no problem....on a TV using DVD....well.....
If you decide that you will burn a DVD, then you will have to transcode the format from MPEG4 -> MPEG2 which will have a *cost.....either time...conversion of the format, which MIGHT have a quality consideration as well....just some things to consider....
I too am impressed with the Samsung device...only downside is lack of mpeg2 support and the discussion on transcoding from 4 -> 2.....
I don't think you're going to see mpeg2 in a memory type camera in the comsumer market/price range soon. the cost in file size for mpeg2 is too high.
I have software that can convert the mpeg4 from the camera to mpeg2 and create a dvd. The quality is probably not good enough for you to sell as a professional product but then I think the same could be said for all the camcorders in the consumer market. I haven't had this camera to the track yet but playing with it in the back yard I think it will do fine for personal consumption.
I wish I could afford to pay for someone else to video all my sessions with the finest professional equipment but I can't and to me this is the best out there when price/durability/quality are all considered.
we already have;
panasonic units which do support mpeg2 are as low as 650.00, IF YOU CAN FIND EM.....
http://www.shentech.com/pasvdvmwemsd.html
slightly more than the 550.00 price point for the samsung device...additionally, the same units have SD chip support, upwards of 2Gb, which provides 88 min. of captured footage, so I disagree with you on this point.
However, using one of these devices you will also require a lipstick cam, albeit higher quality resolution, another 300.00...
conversely, the mpeg4 samsung unit captures 380 lines of resolution.....versus 480 & 520 lines of resolution on the higher quiality stuff...
Hawk you said it; if it is acceptable by the user/viewer then its a good deal & slightly cheaper....you get what you pay for.
If you decide you want something comparable to DVD or TV with little or no damage to the quality of the archive from a transcoding requirement (DVD format is mpeg2) results might not be what you expect.
Yeah, Video bikes DO NOT crash....
Hey Mike, Whatcha up to?
I had looked at that unit but if you read the specs carefully you notice some descrepencies. First off mpeg2 in itself does not provide DVD quality. In order to obtain the 20 min of DVD quality mpeg2 stream they claim from 512 MB internal storage would require a 3.5 Mbps bitrate. The resolution they are using is 320X240, often refered to as 1/4 DVD, any higher and the artifacting would drive you insane. There would be no point in attatching a 480 or 520 line camera to such a device. While this device does have the capability to encode mpeg2 the lower resolution and higher price steered me to the samsung, which btw comes with a, albeit poor, bullit cam.
Again I agree that this is a personal solution, not something that would be viable in the professional arena.
heheh, yea I've crashed several times... never damaged the DVcam.
QuoteYeah, Video bikes DO NOT crash....
Hey Mike, Whatcha up to?
hangin out at a race track Edgar...how you doin fella? Look forward to seeing you round these parts....HPT or BHF my new home(s).....
btw, wait til you see the new stuff @ HPT....pretty cool...I'll call you off line to catch up...
QuoteI had looked at that unit but if you read the specs carefully you notice some descrepencies. First off mpeg2 in itself does not provide DVD quality. In order to obtain the 20 min of DVD quality mpeg2 stream they claim from 512 MB internal storage would require a 3.5 Mbps bitrate. The resolution they are using is 320X240, often refered to as 1/4 DVD, any higher and the artifacting would drive you insane. There would be no point in attatching a 480 or 520 line camera to such a device. While this device does have the capability to encode mpeg2 the lower resolution and higher price steered me to the samsung, which btw comes with a, albeit poor, bullit cam.
Again I agree that this is a personal solution, not something that would be viable in the professional arena.
well, some sites do not have the correct data, the svav100 spec you speak of is wrong;
Let me provide some real data from our experience with these devices. With over 300 hours onboard footage under our belts, we have used these cameras exclusively for the last 2.5 years and we have NEVER used the resolution you discussed...I do not even know if the setting exists for MPEG2....MPEG4 perhaps, which the camera also supports, most likely using the lesser resolution as a compression technique....
In fact, the SV-AV100 MPEG-2 compression performs either at 352 x 480-pixels at 30 frames per second (normal) or 704 x 480-pixels at 30 frames per second (fine). The captured bitrates are 3Mbps & 6 Mbps respectively.....very close to true DVD quality and to the average joe....pretty darn good quality....
So this is the reason why we use high resolution input devices 480 or 520....better overall video, hands down....
Hawk, let us spare the forum participants, no more geek_speak, we agree in premise....just some points of clarification for you and the viewers (asleep) ;-)