Just to bring a little more like to things here (plus I ahve been considering these bikes)...
Which of the following bikes: (a) are lots of fun to ride; (b) are consistently in classes with girds > 7; (c) are simple to maintain (both at the track and between tack events); (d) are a good dollar value; (e) have readily available spare parts and tire sizes; (f) other comments are welcome
Suzuki SV650
Honda RS250
Aprilia RS250
Yamaha TZ250
H., your avatar sucks, and doesn't match your "Go Navy!" enthusiasm.
Here's a link (http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:hQcyISda3C1PUM:www.defenselink.mil/multimedia/web_graphics/navy/USNc.gif) to a proper avatar!
Oh yeah, get the SV. ;)
Whadda ya mean?!
A penguin with a rocket launcher. A regular hunter/shooter ready to rain down hate and discontent on all who oppose him. Or, to be more real world like, all who he's directed toward.
Check it out http://www.xptheme.info/resources_view.cfm/hurl/restype_id=999/viewnum=10/search=linux/
8) 8)
But hey, you're idea is way cool too.
How's about this one http://www.navysealteams.com/contents_files/image019.gif
Not bad if you're willing to be a "sugar cookie" ;D
Unless your as anal and maticulous(sp) as Brian Mclaughlin with notes, scheduled and preventative maintanence and good bike hygene you have just ruled out everybike on your list except for the SV. Barely any maintanence needed and fun as he11 to ride.
You can't get any more fun than a real GP 250. An 80 hp, 240 lb (race weight) bike with a superb chassis. The feeling as it comes on the pipe is crazy. The real deal, purpose built racebike. Unfortunately maintainance comes along with it - top end replacements every 300 miles, bottom ends every 1200 miles and constant attention to jetting. But all of this work is very easy, I can have both cylinders off my bike in about 30 minutes. Tires are getting harder to come by (pretty much Dunlop and 'stones, though I'm going to try a Michelin supermoto tire which is supposibly the same construction as the old 16/63 250 tire). Good value, in TZs the '92-'99 bikes are all pretty similar and are very competitive with the newer bikes. Unfortunately, not legal for many CCS classes (LWGP, MWGP, GTU, GTO, ULGP) and only REALLY competitive in LWGP. BUt you can also race USGPRU.
The Aprillia RS250 is really a European street bike. Much less maintainance when stock (a friend does his top ends at 3000 miles), but there is more of a push to hop them up to keep up with SVs, They are legal for ultra-light superbike and all the other superbike classes. Heavier and slower than a TZ or Honda RS, but the powerband is easier to use. Tires are the same as the SVs. Not as much support/parts in the US as there is for the GP bikes, but still not a problem.
SVs are obviously good bikes, but to me - boring. They feel very sterile. And they need some work to hang with a TZ. And I can't dead lift one like I can my TZ.
-z.
QuoteWhadda ya mean?!
A penguin with a rocket launcher. A regular hunter/shooter ready to rain down hate and discontent on all who oppose him. Or, to be more real world like, all who he's directed toward.
Check it out http://www.xptheme.info/resources_view.cfm/hurl/restype_id=999/viewnum=10/search=linux/
8) 8)
See? Out of sync again, you are not the hatin' type. Bada$$ maybe, not not a hater. ;) ;D
Since it's seals you want:
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3ATEDa2YX1PuYuiM%3Anmml.afsc.noaa.gov%2FPolarEcosyst%2Fimages%2FBearded.jpg&hash=df4382bb8d0abded438114d8e68da666adcbcd49)
Quote(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3ATEDa2YX1PuYuiM%3Anmml.afsc.noaa.gov%2FPolarEcosyst%2Fimages%2FBearded.jpg&hash=df4382bb8d0abded438114d8e68da666adcbcd49)
Is that a baby harp seal? Where's my club?
Oops. did I just infer something not PC? :-X :-X
QuoteIs that a baby harp seal? Where's my club?
Oops. did I just infer something not PC? :-X :-X
Killing Seals is
not badda$$.
And get an SV. ;D
Hey Zac,
Since I'm around 190 lbs (plus another 35 lbs w/ gear), do you think it'd still be as much fun or I could be somewhat competitive (think mid pack not leading the train) on a 250?
I'm the laziest 250 rider in the world. I change my jets maybe 2 times a year or 3 if I get inspired. I spend more time mixing fuel than working on my bike at the track. Get a good baseline and you too can be a lazy mofo like me.
190lbs? you're a friggin lightweight! I was at 233lbs last year and I got down to 1:15's at BHF and I don't even know how to ride it properly. The bike is more than competitive even with my fatass on it. Get a 250. It's so much cooler than an SV.
One more thing... don't get the Aprilia RS250 as it is very gay.
The TZ or RS will be by far the most fun to ride.
2 strokes the maintenance is done in small pieces throughout the year. With a few tools you can do all the work yourself except rebuilding cranks. The work MUST be done, you cannot put it off. Things like rods have a limited life and will break if not replaced on time.
4 strokes the maintenance tends to be done in one or two chunks.
A 125 costs bout the same to run as an SV. A 250 (TZ or RS, not the Aprillia) costs about 3 times as much to run. This does not include crashing, some GP parts are very expensive (compared to street bikes).
Hence, if you are cheap and lazy, race an SV.
If you want the ultimate racing experience, get a 125 or a 250 GP bike.
Yeah, 2-stroke purpose built racebikes are a blast, but high maintenance. The one thing though is that working on them is fairly easy and straightforward. You just have to do it.
Hey Monkey_Rat, what happened to your old login and your doggy?
Edgar... I have no idea. I was updating my profile one night and I think I accidentally deleted it because I couldn't log on afterwards. ???
QuoteYeah, 2-stroke purpose built racebikes are a blast, but high maintenance. The one thing though is that working on them is fairly easy and straightforward. You just have to do it.
I would not say that a 2 stroke is higher maintenance than a properly maintained 4 stroke. It is just when it is done. 2 strokes require the maintenance throughout the year, 4 strokes do not. But the maintenance on a 4 stroke is more difficult to do and requires more specialized equipment.
QuoteHence, if you are cheap and lazy, race an SV.
If you want the ultimate racing experience, get a 125 or a 250 GP bike.
Jeez! After words like that, I'd seem like a putz if I ever showed up with a new bike athat wasn't a 2 stroke. :-[
QuoteA 125 costs bout the same to run as an SV. A 250 (TZ or RS, not the Aprillia) costs about 3 times as much to run.
That's interesting. I didn't realize the 125s didn't need PM-ing as frequently as the 250s.
But I just can't picture myself being comfortable on a 125. I picture it as me on a CRF 50.
Well, we've eliminated 1 bike from the list of 4. Now it's SV, Yami or Honda.
Do they each crash well. NOt that that'll be my aim or anything.
tzracer is pretty much on it.
I had an Ape 250.. it's a good 'intro to 2-stroke bike' limited maintanence, good choice and competitive as amateur racing, but when you goto expert, you'll have to get some tuning/work done to keep up with the f@gs on the SV. JK guys :) and you know it. You race in the LW classes.
SV.. least maintanence of the bunch, probably the lowest of the bunch in terms of 'fun factor'. Races in LW classes as well.
TZ/RS250.. Tru GP bike, in a different class though... races in 1 LW class (LWGP) and middle/heavyweight for the rest. Most expensive, most maintanence, most fun of the bunch.
Another suggestion would be a 125. A tiny step down from a 250. Lap times are not that hugely different but costs are definitely lower and fun factor is probably close to the same as a 250.
It really depends on your budget and how much of a gas-n-go bike you want. Being 190, I wouldn't worry at all about riding on a 250.
Hmmm, I don't know Brian. When I had my TZ, it was new pistons every couple of weekends, new rings every weekend, a crank every 900 miles, doing a plug chop and a spark plug reading twice daily, rejetting, etc, etc. You also have to keep meticulous notes to make sure you are on top of it all. Not only of when you replaced it and what, but how many laps you did every practice session, how many races, etc, just to have an idea of how many miles you have on the parts and when they are at the end of their life cycle.
Don't get me wrong, I am not dissing the 2-strokes. Riding one fast makes it all worthwhile, but they were definetly a bit of work.
First year on the SV, I put fairings on it, a shock, revalved the front and put new springs in it, put on a steering dampner, brake lines and pads, and a pipe. Took it to a Dyno and rejetted. Then I changed the oil after every race weekend. End of maintenance...
QuoteI would not say that a 2 stroke is higher maintenance than a properly maintained 4 stroke. It is just when it is done. 2 strokes require the maintenance throughout the year, 4 strokes do not. But the maintenance on a 4 stroke is more difficult to do and requires more specialized equipment.
You, sir, are a dork!!!
;D
QuoteEdgar... I have no idea. I was updating my profile one night and I think I accidentally deleted it because I couldn't log on afterwards. ???
Looking back to the original question, seems you're looking for the best compromise . . . that's gotta be the SV, right?
Quote(a) are lots of fun to ride; (b) are consistently in classes with girds > 7; (c) are simple to maintain (both at the track and between tack events); (d) are a good dollar value; (e) have readily available spare parts and tire sizes
Big grids -- LWSS, LWSB, GT Lights, LWGP . . .
Maintenance? Could not be much easier. Oil, filter, chain . . .
Readily available spare parts? SV is the hands-down winner on that.
Good dollar value? The very used '01 SV supersport racer I bought was fast enough for four podiums at Daytona this year . . . stock motor, etc.
Fun to ride? I love it. It's no GP bike, but the thing can carry serious corner speed and has decent power. Consider also that (for me, at least) it's important to the fun-factor to have a bike that is simple to maintain, reliable and not full of mechanical surprises.
I am looking forward to a 250 gp bike one day, but I think that right now a 250 gp bike would mean doing 1/2 as many races and spending more time wrenching. So . . . SV for me.
SV.
I don't pit next to counter culture types that smoke.
;D
QuoteYou, sir, are a dork!!!
;D
I would tend to agree...
QuoteJeez! After words like that, I'd seem like a putz if I ever showed up with a new bike athat wasn't a 2 stroke. :-[
Sorry I don't always put in a ;). But a 4 stroke is better for people who procrastinate.
QuoteThat's interesting. I didn't realize the 125s didn't need PM-ing as frequently as the 250s.
But I just can't picture myself being comfortable on a 125. I picture it as me on a CRF 50.
Well, we've eliminated 1 bike from the list of 4. Now it's SV, Yami or Honda.
Do they each crash well. NOt that that'll be my aim or anything.
There are fewer parts for a 125 and things like cranks are significantly cheaper. Pistons, rings, cranks have to be replaced on about the same schedule. Also uses less fuel, tires are cheaper and last longer. After a while it saves quite a bit over a 250.
They do tend to crash well due to less weight. 125s are better than 250s, at least from what I have seen - I haven't crashed either of mine (touch wood).
QuoteFirst year on the SV, I put fairings on it, a shock, revalved the front and put new springs in it, put on a steering dampner, brake lines and pads, and a pipe. Took it to a Dyno and rejetted. Then I changed the oil after every race weekend. End of maintenance...
Don't forget the complete rebuild at the end of the season. Also small things like having the transmission undercut (made a huge difference on mine).
The bill for the engine work on my SV at the end of last year was more than all the parts I purchased for my 125 (including crash spares, extra bodywork, etc).
SV is great. Currently, it's the closest you can get to spec racing.
And RS250 is not a GP bike. It's a Suzuki souced engine in a frame...then sold by Aprilia. Riding a GP bike and an RS250 Aprilia are different.
I don't think the reliability and parts availability of the Aprilia are the same as the Honda and Yamaha GP bikes.
250cc GP bikes? Well, 125's are great. Probably the most fun out there, bar none. 250 GP bikes require more effort. Probably squared the amount of effort of a 125.
What's wrong with the F2?
QuoteSorry I don't always put in a ;). But a 4 stroke is better for people who procrastinate.
No problem, mon. No harm, no foul.
SD, the F2 is fine and still running strong. In fact, I've decided to keep it forever. Thunderbike, V7 (over in WERA-land) and some races with Fasttrax (whatever did go wrong with that collaboration between CCS & Fasttrax?).
I just keep wondering about a 2nd race bike. If I'm gonna race, then given my current skills, I'm sticking with the LWs.
If I was getting a track day bike or my skills (and confidence) make a hyper-space jump, then maybe I'll look at a R6 or GSXR-750.
Street bikes are a whole 'nuther matter.
BTW, Dave, I need to send you a note re: 7/29. I'll get to it after the w/e.
H, cool on the F2. It would be on my short list of second race bikes. Next for me would be a 125 GP bike all day long.
The only bad thing about it is that it isn't as versatile as a street based race bike, because it just can't run in as many classes.
Some taller and larger people are concerned that a 125 GP bike is too little for them. Seems like the models produced after 1995 were more "spacious". Yes, small, but it can be done. I fit ok at 5'9". PJ Thornton was still racing and winning with an RS125 at 5'11" and 200+#.
I think about an SV once in a while too.
Hope that gives you ideas...
No problem on the July thing. I'll be traveling to KC and Topeka early next week. Should have e-mail access, I hope. Keep in touch.
H - SV, no brainer.
Cheap to maintain. A blast to race. Definitely a ton of parts available, and other SV racers out there to compete against. Not to mention you can run in a load of races per weekend if you want. *And* Suzuki supports the SV with contingency and it's own SV Cup Race.
QuoteSuzuki supports the SV with contingency ...
Contingency money? Me? You crack me up Eddie ;D ;D
But your points are well taken. 8)