Hi: Newbie,first post,be gentle! Would anyone care to
offer an opinion as to whether it would be possible for a non-pro rider to make enough through contingencies to,if not make money,atleast break even? By break even I do not mean price of bike and start up equipment,just the seasons running. this would include transport costs,gas,lodging,fees,etc. Sorry for being long winded.
Hope you're not trolling.
Anyway, there are maybe a dozen or more riders in the usa doing that. I know three of them.
Two have poduimed or won ama nationals or championships. The other one is definitely good enough to.
I guess, don't expect it unless you are smoking fast.
If you are, see which manufacturers are paying, buy their bikes, and go for it.
Kawi is paying $2k for an expert win on their schedule. The others are similar.
QuoteHi: Newbie,first post,be gentle! Would anyone care to
offer an opinion as to whether it would be possible for a non-pro rider to make enough through contingencies to,if not make money,atleast break even? By break even I do not mean price of bike and start up equipment,just the seasons running. this would include transport costs,gas,lodging,fees,etc. Sorry for being long winded.
As an amateur, No.
Larry Denning and Rob Jensen proved it can be done, but you have to be INCREDIBLY fast and not crash or get hurt.
If you ran a whole season, won a lot and never crashed it might only cost around $20K for the year.
Probably not the news you were looking for... ;D
QuoteHi: Newbie,first post,be gentle! Would anyone care to
offer an opinion as to whether it would be possible for a non-pro rider to make enough through contingencies to,if not make money,atleast break even? By break even I do not mean price of bike and start up equipment,just the seasons running. this would include transport costs,gas,lodging,fees,etc. Sorry for being long winded.
To make a small fortune in racing you must start with a large fortune.
There are way too many debt ridden racers, this is not a venture to "make money" or even try to make a living. The guys who are doing it are not living the high-life, but instead are talented, self-motivated individuals who possess the necessary skills to to ride, wrench and press the flesh of every sponsor who supports their effort. They do it because of their passion for the sport.
Sacrificed new vehicles, nice home, dinners out, time off including vacations and a few relationships to chase this crazy addiction!
When I get older - maybe ;) - I'll settle down but for now I have paid thousands in medical bills, tens of thousands for bikes and parts and tires, slept in tents and ate crappy food all for the rush.
Don't worry about IF your fast or IF you will get some sponsors, you WILL experience alot of financial struggles.
But it will all be worth it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
Lets take Denning and Jensen out of the equation....
The better question would be: How much can I expect to lose racing.
Well, that depend on how many races you enter. How many tires you go through, how much fuel you use, how often you change brake pads.
ANd lets not forget potential crash damge!!!!
How often you do or do not finish in the tire contingency or whatever contingency is available.
etc. etc and so forth.
I don't think 10 Grand is unrealistic to spend in a season... Hotel, traveling, food and so on.
Heck I bet there are even guys saying " 10 grand! I wish I only spent 10 Grand!"
QuoteThe better question would be: How much can I expect to lose racing.
LOL!
Great question, Matt! Much more appropriate than asking how much one can profit from racing.
QuoteAs an amateur, No.
Larry Denning and Rob Jensen proved it can be done, but you have to be INCREDIBLY fast and not crash or get hurt.
If you ran a whole season, won a lot and never crashed it might only cost around $20K for the year.
Probably not the news you were looking for... ;D
I'd be surprised if Cobb and Rojas didn't break even (or close) as Amateurs.
;)
Here's an average rider's feedback:
My first full season running 6 races per weekend cost me $1,000 to $1,500 per weekend including practice days and all costs involved. I made a little over $6,000 in taxable contingency money and CCS certs; $1,800 purse winnings at the ROC.
I can justify it easily 'cause I treat it like my vacation instead of the high expectation high dollar vacation packages.
QuoteLets take Denning and Jensen out of the equation....
The better question would be: How much can I expect to lose racing.
Well, that depend on how many races you enter. How many tires you go through, how much fuel you use, how often you change brake pads.
ANd lets not forget potential crash damge!!!!
How often you do or do not finish in the tire contingency or whatever contingency is available.
etc. etc and so forth.
I don't think 10 Grand is unrealistic to spend in a season... Hotel, traveling, food and so on.
Heck I bet there are even guys saying " 10 grand! I wish I only spent 10 Grand!"
Hey Drucker thanks for bringing this into focus again. I have been trying to repress this and have been doing a decent job of it and have been perfectly content staying in a state of denial.
I'm going to go cry now.
QuoteHi: Newbie,first post,be gentle! Would anyone care to
offer an opinion as to whether it would be possible for a non-pro rider to make enough through contingencies to,if not make money,atleast break even? By break even I do not mean price of bike and start up equipment,just the seasons running. this would include transport costs,gas,lodging,fees,etc. Sorry for being long winded.
No.
And then it all leads to questions.
What riding skills and resources do you have that you can use to your advantage? If you have a lot, then you still have a good chance to have fun and spend a lot of money doing it.
There are a few riders, like Andy said, maybe a dozen out of the, what, five to seven thousand licensed road racers that are fast enough that they can be competitive track to track for manufacturers contingency money. That can add up to $40k to $120k, for those riders. And those guys can live on the road for three months before seeing home. Not an easy life, but it's a life racing.
I think Matt hit is pretty good that a rider will spend a decent $10k on a fair race season.
Hahahahahaah ;D
J/K, but it is very difficult.
I used to make a VERY small profit in the early 90's. My teammate secured sponsorship through a local dealer that paid $250,$100 and $50 for every 1st, 2nd and 3rd. That coupled with tire and other assorted contingency made it bearable... but we usually finished 1-2 in most of our races ;)
Remember, it isn't always talent that brings a lucrative sponsor on board. It all boils down to what you can do for their advertising dollar.
Advice I was given by veteran racers :
If you cannot afford to pay for your racing out of pocket, don't even get started. Don't ever PLAN on winning ANY money. Racing first and foremost should be FUN.
My advice :
Racing is an expensive hobby. Do not spend more than you can afford. It can be done rather cheaply. Set a limit on what you can afford (a budget), once you reach the end of your budget, your season is over, do not go beyound your budget. Race a small bike (easy on tires, tend to get damaged less in a crash) and run a number of races that you can afford. Sleep in a tent/truck/trailer at the track, bring food with you rather than buying at the track or eating out. There are ways to save money.
Some good replies here. But it boils down to a few of things.
1. You can't count on winning anything. If you are...more than likely you won't finish 1 season.
2. $1000/weekend is pretty typical for a race weekend. Entries, lodging, food, fuel, practice day $, tires, oil, brake pads, etc.) It adds up quickly. Yes it can be done somewhat cheaper if you try, but not aby a lot. Many of those are 'fixed' costs that you can't do anything about.
3. Smaller bikes cause less wear on tires...significantly cutting down your tire bill. Running essentially stock bikes does as well. This can help the $ situation.
4. You WILL have unexpected expenses. For me they have been replacing bikes in a week, replacing multiple engines in a week, destroying multiples bikes AND engines in a week. Blowing up towing vehicle engines. (Only 40K miles on the Oddo too!!!)
You put a lot of wear and tear on everything you have by racing.
5. Healthcare - I hope you have it...and a good policy. I too often hear about guys who have realtively minor injuries (Couple of broken bones) Complaining about the 20-40K in bills from their hospital stays.
Good luck.
QuoteHeck I bet there are even guys saying " 10 grand! I wish I only spent 10 Grand!"
ummm yeah. I'm in that category. And believe me, I'm FAR from "big-time"... I conserve tires. I run pump gas. I barter, beg, trade everything I can, and in the end it still costs $10k or more.
I do not live to work. I work to live.
I live to race because I cannot race to live.
Alexa replied with one of my favorite quotes. "You can make a small fortune in racing. Just start out with a large fortune".
In the end, for those who chose it long-term, it becomes a lifestyle more than a hobby/sport.
QuoteIn the end, for those who chose it long-term, it becomes a lifestyle more than a hobby/sport.
Yup. You do it for the love of the sport.
I've raced a nice house away at this point. Got scars, aches, pains, I limp.
And not one damned regret....starting my 9th year in 2006.
I think "making" a NEGATIVE $10g's is just about right. Thats assuming you already have a race ready bike, something to haul it with, etc.
I'm a regular old 6th or worse place amateur which earns you exactly $0 per year.
I did '05 at just about $8g's being careful with tires, sleeping in a tent, and skipping a couple of races really far away.
For a real eye opener, just do every practice and race you can at Road America this April, you'll be shocked!!
Hahahahaha... he said "make money"!! Ahahahahah! "make money in racing" Hahahahaha!!
Stop it you're killing me!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Make money? You can talk yourself into thinking you'll make some money. Contingency here, contingency there, but put that against the rest of the bill... I don't do it, I don't want to scare myself.
I've been racing with the CCS for 16 years, I say to myself did I make some money? Self I made $20 dollars today... Self, I spent $1000 today... ah self, just forget that last part, ok. ok. I made some money!!!!
It gets in your blood and you can't quit. It's just too much fun. Now, I did just get a real job, my racing is going to be down a little for a year, but in two years I'll have plenty of extra money to go racing on... Thats how I do it, peaks and valleys.
QuoteI've been racing with the CCS for 16 years, I say to myself did I make some money? Self I made $20 dollars today... Self, I spent $1000 today... ah self, just forget that last part, ok. ok. I made some money!!!!
Kind of like old ladies playing BINGO...oh wait, that was Jeff Kufalk! ;D
Your initial investment is small in comparison as you have been reading. :D
Your best bet as an Amatuer, is to stay consistent and healthy for the first year. The consistancy will pay off when you are out presenting resumes to potential sponsors. The sponsors come in all different colors and sizes. Mostly, they will ALL help to offset the cost incurred by racing's appetite.
Contingency sponsors are a BIG help only if you can podium consistantly and have grids large enough for you to qualify for them. Dunlop, Pirelli, Bridgestone, EBC,etc. can all help your racing efforts.
The 1k per weekend is the real world and this is not counting wear and tear on the race and travel equuiptment. Petiton for sponsorship to pay all entry fees and go from there. Focus on getting the larger tabs taken care of by sponsorship; all or in part. Negotiate.
Lastly, the biggest gains from racing are to be found not just on the track but in the pits and with your friends and family that come to support you the others that share this passion for this sport. Racing is a family sport, look around, listen the next time you are between races.
I like what motomaniac said: "but in two years I'll have plenty of extra money to go racing on..." Now that's FUNNY! ;D
QuoteKind of like old ladies playing BINGO...oh wait, that was Jeff Kufalk! ;D
I think the day I finally win (bingo) I'll retire... Until then, I suffer the pain... ::)
QuoteI can justify it easily 'cause I treat it like my vacation instead of the high expectation high dollar vacation packages.
You must be single and no kids, eh Dave? ;)
Seriously though, that's pretty good info.
I made $795 cash in 2005 in WERA SOLO purses in the LW class....NO WHERE NEAR the amount I spent which I estimate is up near 10k or so. The Pirelli contingency helped with tires, making near 6k in tire money, but food, fuel, gate fees, crash damage etc...
QuoteYou must be single and no kids, eh Dave? ;)
I have a 6 yr old with his eyes on the prize already...gets me thinking, how much faster and how much technology change will occur between now and when he's 14? Will the LW class bikes for entry age racers be faster than my 750 is now?
Simple math:
Cost per weekend (LW): $800-1000 - tires, fees, travel
Contingency payout: 1st place/tires: $100/race; vortex and all the rest: $200 (maybe).
Winning your first race: Priceless.
Contigency will buy you and your buddies a brat, a beer, and maybe some more tires. For everything else there's Mastercard (tm). 8)
QuoteI have a 6 yr old with his eyes on the prize already...gets me thinking, how much faster and how much technology change will occur between now and when he's 14? Will the LW class bikes for entry age racers be faster than my 750 is now?
What do you think will change? Fastest 600 times at Blackhawk in 1993 were high 14's. In 2001, they were mid 13's. Same track.