I'm a new racer who did many track days in 05. My lap times came down to a respectible level and this year I will be racing. What experiences can people share about a Spencer, Shwantz, Code, etc school. If you had the option of upgrading your front suspension, installing a slipper clutch and quick shifter or going to one of these schools what would you do? I looking for some hind site perspective from people who have attended one of these schools. Thanks!!
I think the spencer school was the best training that I ever had with respect to my riding skills. It is definitely pricey, but the pro school is the only way to go, it is definitely worth every penny.
But...I would recommend buying a rear shock and at least springing your front end appropriately before anything else. Suspension isn't a luxury but rather a necessity, both for speed and safety.
I should have mentioned that I bought the bike with an Ohlins rear shock sprung for my weight and a stock front end. The front end is just a little light for my current weight but I am in the process of changing that. My weight I mean. ;D
I'm a definite fan of the Code schools...
Here's my writeups on them:
http://www.cbr600rr.com/forum/index.php?page=42
http://www.cbr600rr.com/forum/index.php?page=41
Does it have to be high dollar?
http://www.visionsportsridingschools.com
QuoteI'm a new racer who did many track days in 05. My lap times came down to a respectible level and this year I will be racing. What experiences can people share about a Spencer, Shwantz, Code, etc school. If you had the option of upgrading your front suspension, installing a slipper clutch and quick shifter or going to one of these schools what would you do? I looking for some hind site perspective from people who have attended one of these schools. Thanks!!
Get the suspension without a doubt...
Slipper clutch/quick shifter not needed.
Spend your money on the three T's:
Tuition
Tires
Tuspension
And like Dave said... does the school have to be expensive? There are a number of very fine programs available at all price points..
Have fun racing!
Quote:
Tuition
Tires
Tuspension
Well shit... if I was spelling it right maybe I would have been faster!!! ;D
Hey Rob!! Screw the Ohlins crap I want some of that tuspension stuff!! lol
QuoteDoes it have to be high dollar?
http://www.visionsportsridingschools.com
Of course not. These are just schools that are priced similarily to the above bike modifications. Your program is very interesting to me and when the time is right I may enroll. Fortunately for me you operate your schools at convenient locations. Enrolling in one of the above schools requires a bigger commitment and more planning. I'm simply weighing out possible options and trying to make the most out of my racing dollars.
That said maybe I should add a visionsports riding school into the above mods. Let's try it from that angle. VRS day, respring and revalve front forks, slipper clutch, and quick shifter or Spencer school of speed. If this point of reference matters, my fastest lap time at BHF is a 1:15.1. Oddly enough it was while following Super Dave. ;)
QuoteI'm a definite fan of the Code schools...
Here's my writeups on them:
http://www.cbr600rr.com/forum/index.php?page=42
http://www.cbr600rr.com/forum/index.php?page=41
I just read your write ups. Thanks!!
I have to give Dave his props. I learned more with him in 2 days than I learn in a whole year of research and practicing on my own.
I'd have to look at it this way... upgrades to HP have no use if you don't have the suspention to keep it hooked up to the track. Suspention upgrades have no use unless you have the training to use it and adjust it to fit you. I would start off with training first so you dont end up wasting money on things you don't need.
QuoteWell shit... if I was spelling it right maybe I would have been faster!!! ;D
Hey Rob!! Screw the Ohlins crap I want some of that tuspension stuff!! lol
Hey, I t-t-t-try!
QuoteGet the suspension without a doubt...
Good advice Dan.
Quote If this point of reference matters, my fastest lap time at BHF is a 1:15.1. Oddly enough it was while following Super Dave. ;)
Ahhh...ya..it matters. If I read this correctly and you have actually NOT raced yet but you can do a 15 flat at blackhawk(following someone or not!) you need tires and suspension! Oh ya...and a new lap timer! ;D
QuoteI would start off with training first so you dont end up wasting money on things you don't need.
If I had done this I would've been a LOT better off, and been able to afford to race a lot more.
I have attended the Kevin Schwantz Suzuki School, Jason Pridmore's Star School, Reg Pridmore's Class School, the Team Hammer School, and 3 levels of Keith Code's California Superbike School. All were good schools in their own way, however they are "riding" schools that teach you "riding" techniques but don't teach you anything about what a "race" day is like. Also, of all these schools only the Team Hammer school is an approved licensing clinic for CCS racing. If your aim is to get your race license and start racing, then don't waste your money on one of those high dollar schools.
Seems Dave has already "pimped" his Visionsports School, I'll jump in here and "pimp" my TrackAddix school. Here are a couple of links. One link is for school info and the other link is to a couple of testimonials from our graduates.
http://trackaddix.com/school/?pager=50
http://trackaddix.com/school/?pager=80
My advice is shop and compare. Go to a local license clinic and spend the money on upgrades to your bike, the suspension being the most important upgrade on the list. Doesn't matter how much horsepower you have or how good a rider you are if your suspension can't keep your tires in contact with the pavement.
Dean
QuoteI have attended the Kevin Schwantz Suzuki School, Jason Pridmore's Star School, Reg Pridmore's Class School, the Team Hammer School, and 3 levels of Keith Code's California Superbike School. All were good schools in their own way, however they are "riding" schools that teach you "riding" techniques but don't teach you anything about what a "race" day is like. Also, of all these schools only the Team Hammer school is an approved licensing clinic for CCS racing. If your aim is to get your race license and start racing, then don't waste your money on one of those high dollar schools.
Seems Dave has already "pimped" his Visionsports School, I'll jump in here and "pimp" my TrackAddix school. Here are a couple of links. One link is for school info and the other link is to a couple of testimonials from our graduates.
http://trackaddix.com/school/?pager=50
http://trackaddix.com/school/?pager=80
My advice is shop and compare. Go to a local license clinic and spend the money on upgrades to your bike, the suspension being the most important upgrade on the list. Doesn't matter how much horsepower you have or how good a rider you are if your suspension can't keep your tires in contact with the pavement.
Dean
Thanks for the useful post!! I am licensed with CCS using the LCR school and have taken the LCR advanced course which was a big help.
Quote If this point of reference matters, my fastest lap time at BHF is a 1:15.1. Oddly enough it was while following Super Dave. ;)
Hey, but following me around on a play day isn't school. There is more to it.
If I were going to do a school, other than my own, I'd do American Supercamp or Ed Bargy's Race School.
QuoteHey, but following me around on a play day isn't school. There is more to it.
If I were going to do a school, other than my own, I'd do American Supercamp or Ed Bargy's Race School.
http://www.americansupercamp.com/
I've heard nothing but great comments on that school and it's something I want to take sometime myself. Thanks Dave for reminding me!
(us over 40 year olds need reminders occassionally)
Strange to find this thread...learning about schools is exactly why I logged today. I have been researching many different schools myself, and can't really find any of the "high dollar" schools that look like they are designed to make a better racer out of you.
Dave can you tell me more about your "Racer University"? I agree w/ many of the things you say on visionmotorsports site. Like everyone else getting started I too have limited resources, but if I find the right school (expensive or not) I'd cough up the cash and go!!!!
I am with Rob. I have attended Schwantz twice, Code once, both Pridmores, and Rick's licensing school and his other class, and Spencer School. Freddie Spencer school is the most expensive. In my opinion it can't be compared to the others. Every school that I attended I learned a valuable lesson. I don't regret going to the other schools. Due to its high cost I attended Spencer last. If I could do it over again I would go there first. I would probably skip the others except for Ricks. Ricks school gave me invaluable local knowledge at BHF, and it was cheap. I feel that the other big name schools teach their curriculum and you get what ever you take from it. Freddies the focus is on you. You are not permitted to make mistakes. It is drill oriented. Kind of like Code in that respect. But the drills teach incredible lessons. I could go on all day. Go straight to Freddies pro school. If you can ride in the teens at BHF you probably won't be the slowest guy there. Latch on to Nick Ienatsch and don't let go. He is the best in the business. Later - Johnny
As far as locals, S Dave from my watching spent alot of time with guys off and on who took his school up to a few YEARS ago. I personally took that Learning Curves deal, to be honest with you, I think I learned much more from books than I ever did from LC. Plus I went to ask an instructor questions later and he made me really feel brushed off. I'm taking the Visionsports thing the beginning of the year maybe we will ride there together.
I have taken the Freddie Spencer school and it was great. A lot of drills and they really try hard to make you a better rider.
But...on the other hand... I also have asked Dave a lot of questions throughout the years and he has really helped me out a ton. This is something that you cannot expect from a school like the Freddie school. He has helped me with setting up my own motorcycle.
A local school is good being that you can walk up and ask questions throughout the year.
Same thing applies with buying bike parts. I can get them cheaper from certain places, but when I buy from a trackside vendor like Lithium Motorsports, I know that I will get their help with any questions I have through the year. Try asking LP about what shock spring you have or how to set it up for your riding style!
QuoteSame thing applies with buying bike parts. I can get them cheaper from certain places, but when I buy from a trackside vendor like Lithium Motorsports, I know that I will get their help with any questions I have through the year. Try asking LP about what shock spring you have or how to set it up for your riding style!
Oh this sucks! I have to agree with Edgar about something. My heart is breaking.
Taking a local school frome someone like Rosno in the Midwest or whoever might do it in your region gives you a powerful ally and mentor throughout the year. This is also why you want to choose a local suspension tuner who can give you trackside support. I've dealt with Lithium as well, and they are excellent.
Point is, whatever region you race in, spend your money with the guys who support you at the track. They are there for you when you need them, and might not continue to be there without your dollars.
Now back to disagreeing with everything Edgar says....
QuoteNow back to disagreeing with everything Edgar says....
Well, since you put it that way...
hey everyone, K3 is not a flaming fag who likes little boys!!!
Quotehey everyone, K3 is not a flaming fag who likes little boys!!!
Aaaaaaaaaah!
Hey K3, ever wonder why I haven't called ya about next month's banquet ;)
QuoteAaaaaaaaaah!
Hey K3, ever wonder why I haven't called ya about next month's banquet ;)
You should stay with Edgar. He likes the dark meat....
QuoteYou should stay with Edgar. He likes the dark meat....
Based on the comments of a certain someone at Gingerman, he aint the only one 8) :-*
Who was that stunning black lady you brought along to G-Man the one time? THAT was my idea of hot chocolate. I thought she was your girlfriend, but then you thought Rhiannon was MY girlfriend. (Nicest thing you've ever said to me!) I think we both gave each other too much credit!
On the other hand, I've never seen Edgar with a woman. Rumor has it he pays them to sit on his lap, (probably just for appearence's sake) but otherwise I've never seen or heard any evidence that would lead me to believe he's the least bit hetero.
Oops! I just realised that talking about Edgar's sexuality here constitutes a THREAD JACK! ;D
Quote
Dave can you tell me more about your "Racer University"?
Thread redirect...LOL! 8)
Well, how long do we have...
I've put on so many different programs...
First, I'm not any kind of naturally gifted rider. So, I learned everything by being stubborn and trying to absorb everything. There are things that I absorbed but didn't originally understand. I try to demistify a whole lot of stuff.
I try to put a rider into a different mindset that removes some of the focus away from some of the more traditional aspects that others like to focus on. Many reasons for it, one is to remove pressure.
It's always a "your mileage may vary" aspect though. Some riders execute some things well. Others don't. I customize my programs to focus on the stuff that you have issues with...and to focus a rider on what they do execute correctly.
Example: I've had riders that actually know how to ride a motorcycle well. However, their bike has had so many issues that if we could clean up how it suspends itself though a corner, they can do things better...then new issues arise. But until you stair step up, you don't know what there is.
Some riders have such convoluted riding ideology that they are just a mess. Some of those riders need to be tasked with reduntant drills to focus on for most of the day so that they can get a really bad habit to go away.
Not to take away from the Supersport thread...LOL...but there are so many ways to cheat the learning process and get moving quicker...
That, ultimately, is a money saver all by itself.
Yes, I give on going support. Some use it. Some don't. Some riders I have to walk up to and ask when the hel1 they forgot how to ride? Road racing can be extraordinarily painful, financially as we know, but I think it's more painful emotionally.
That give you some answers?
YES. I think that answers some questions. If I understand you, the idea is to figure out what a racer needs to work on and focus on those things first. The example you used probably fits my situation. I've got over 10 years street experience and I've watched racing for most of those years. I feel like I understand the mechanics of racing pretty good, but I rode my completely-street TLR last year and I feel like I fought it the whole season. I'm working on buying Doc Stein's SV650 for next year, so I'll probably need some time on it to figure out EXACTLY WHAT I need to work on.
Oh ya....I read your bio on the Visionmotorsports page and it seems that you and I have almost identical eye-ball issues. I have less than 20/40 sight out of my left eye even with the best glasses I can get. My peripheral is perfect, but I have no focusing ability. My right eye is 20/20 uncorrected and the depth perception thing is something I never thought about, but after thinking about it, I'm sure that you and I "see distance" differently than most people.
Well, I'm interested in working with you at some point, so I'll be looking forward to those class dates being announced.
Hey Andy! I remember working with you a bit at STT Autobahn! Welcome to the circus!
Thanks Chris. Still trying to figure out who everyone is with screen names, but you're infamous!! The boards seem like a great place to keep learning in the off-season. Can't wait 'till spring!!!
[quote
If I were going to do a school, other than my own, I'd do American Supercamp or Ed Bargy's Race School.[/quote]
This got me thinking about Bargy since I was going to be there anyway. I was kind of bumming about having to share a track day with a school, but after Dave's recommendation, I signed up instead. Thanks Dave!
Excellent!