Just curious.
It seems to me that Daytona really isn't considered a very good roadracing course. Guys from Mat Mladin, to CCS Expert Champions, to Newbie Novice have all stated the same things it seems at point. Daytona isn't all that fun, is mostly a goofy horsepower track, and the main reason people race there is because of the 'historic name'.
While I can see the marketing value for Honda to win at 'The Daytona' so they can sell more bikes to Johnny Public... I don't see as much value in having the ROC there since it's not like club racing pulls in the big spectators anyhow.
Personally I'd rather see the ROC at a track that is a true roadracing track. Barber? VIR? Even Road Atlanta? (taking weather and similar location into account). Shoot even Homestead.
Has this been discussed before? I apologize if it has. I couldn't seem to find it.
Been covered many times.
ROC is a big event. Most tracks can't handle the density that is necessary.
Road Atlanta hosts the GNF.
And most tracks do have dangerous areas. For an AMA Superbike, Daytona has challenges as a liter bike is spinning in 6th gear on the banking.
Weather plays a role too.
If it were always about HP, then even in the AMA, the guys that had the fastest trap speeds would always win. Recognize that although Mat Mladin wins many, many races, his trap speeds seldom are the fastest; he wins by race craft, set up, and by executing the whole course efficiently.
Have you raced at Daytona before?
How did it work out for everyone (from both a business and racer standpoint) when it was at homestead?
From what I remember people saying, Homestead was a low turnout. I guess that is what happens when you put a national event like that all the way down at the farthest point from most people in the US...
The other thing to note from what I remember, is that pretty much the same people who always do well at Daytona did well down there, regardless of it not being a horsepower track. I guess rider skill does have something to do with this after all!
Heartland Park is centrally located and has 20 million dollars of upgrades. I think that is as good a place as any.
Now that is a good one...
SCCA run offs will be there. Centrally located. Weather might be hairy in October though...
HPT gets my vote too! ;D
Nope. I've never raced at Daytona and my interest in it is pretty small. The thought of riding my bike on the revlimiter for 30 minutes doesn't entice me much, even though I feel I'd be in the running for some AM National Championships next season.
Ed Key said he was surprised he didn't blow up any engines on his SV this year there. Said it normally happens everytime he rides at Daytona. That's just not a option for myself.
Isn't just a 'oh poor me and my little bike' question. I was reading how one of the Section8superbike experts (on a big Ducati) decided not to race after doing practice. Basically was 'Eff that track'. (just one example out of many).
What's wrong with exploring the Barber option. Weather. Good track. Logistically can handle it. etc etc.
You don't ride Daytona on the Rev limiter that long. Road America is a longer track and it has three straightaways.
Personally, I don't like Barber. I've met Mr Barber on several occasions, but I don't think the course is as good as VIR, Infineon Raceway, or Heartland Park Topeka.
I don't think you get out of fourth gear on a bigger bike at Barber. I raced it on a small bike when I was there last year.
QuoteWhat's wrong with exploring the Barber option. Weather. Good track. Logistically can handle it. etc etc.
No power in the paddock, tighter track so the density is limited. Someone needs to chime in about the time when Barber had 1400 entries. Was messy as I remember.
QuoteYou don't ride Daytona on the Rev limiter that long. Road America is a longer track and it has three straightaways.
Personally, I don't like Barber. I've met Mr Barber on several occasions, but I don't think the course is as good as VIR, Infineon Raceway, or Heartland Park Topeka.
I don't think you get out of fourth gear on a bigger bike at Barber. I raced it on a small bike when I was there last year.
Yes but you are added in tracks that aren't options. That doesn't help the argument and shouldn't be used as comparisons. You could say Misano is faster than Daytona but what's the point of that? Misano, much like Road America, isn't a option for ROC do it's moot to bring it up.
Is VIR an option or not? Weather usually isn't so bad in October.
The SCCA run offs will be held at Heartland Park in 2006 in October.
Have you raced at Barber?
QuoteYes but you are added in tracks that aren't options.
That's the question too... No one has ever said that there is an option other than Daytona International Speedway.
Daytona has hosted ROC every year except for the year when it was torn down, 2003. And the race was moved to Homestead...a track owned by the same company.
I think most track options are moot.
Well that was the point of the post. Thanks for clearing everything up Kevin, err Dave. ;)
VIR is still doing trackdays in Mid-October. Why it was on list. Haven't ridden Barber either, but the general motorcycle roadracing community consensus seems to say it's a BETTER ROADRACING course than Daytona. Hence why it's on the list.
I see this is going nowhere. Thanks for taking the time to shed some light on this question.
Well, it's been covered many times. Sorry. Call Kevin, e-mail him. As he said in the newsletter, the forum is not a place to give input on an issue. Might help you formulate an idea and build support, but Kevin does have work that he does in the office. If you can't give me an idea why to support it, how are you going to convince Kevin?
Mid-Ohio? I don't care so much for the track, myself, and I think some of the management and security people have a really, really long history of creating problems for riders.
Quotebut Kevin does have work that he does in the office.
Good point Dave (closing in on 6000 posts! :o )
Can I get a job at your company? Do you have your own business? Does your boss not know or care? At the track and now that i think about this board I want to be more like you! :-*
Seriously how do you post so much?
6000? dave you must really have the time ;D
funny I don't post anything for 6 month and I only lost 1 spot on the list ha
I like Daytona. It's not as good as VIR but it is fun. The weather usually is pretty good, except for the occasional hurricane, and you've got the whole biketober fest atmosphere where I like to go downtown at night and have a good time also. What happens in Daytona stays in Daytona. ;)
Quote Well, it's been covered many times.
Again. Used the Search function. Tried to find previous conversation on this. Didn't have much luck. The Search feature of this style BBS is a bit wonky.
Thanks again for the very constructive and knowledgable, well formulated replies.
PS: Hats off to CCS for getting new website up and running. Great to see it all coming together. Going to have to make some of the East Coast ASRA rounds ;D
To me, what track you like or don't like isn't the issue. It's that this is supposed to be a national championship and since this is club racing it should be more centrally located for all riders from all regions. Florida is not centrally located and therefore seems to me, makes it more of a regional championship with a few other guys thrown in.
QuoteFlorida is not centrally located and therefore seems to me, makes it more of a regional championship with a few other guys thrown in.
Says the man who lives 30 minutes from the GNF! ::) Hey Mark! Check your voice mail and call me!
While I like VIR (actually like Daytona as well), I don't think it would work well for a ROC environment as its quite narrow and passes are hard to come by.
Couple that with guys ready to kill each other for 1/2 of pavement and it might just fizzle in terms of racing.
Daytona also exists as it coincides with Daytona Biketoberfest which adds more lure for racers to come down. Sunny warm weather, plenty to do, lots of hotels, etc.
I love daytona, I said love, not like... its a great vacation for me every year after hard working. At ROC time the water is actually warm enough to get in the ocean. I ditched friday afternoon in favor of the beach last time there.
Adam you going to daytona in the spring?
QuoteI love daytona, I said love, not like... its a great vacation for me every year after hard working.
Adam you going to daytona in the spring?
I'd love it too if it weren't for the drive and hotel $$. To make it affordable I had to stay 45 minutes from the track. I am NOT a morning person and driving to the track pre-dawn was not my idea of fun. :D
I do have the toy hauler now, but no, not going this year, sold the 1k a few months ago, doing SuperMoto for 2006. WERA has a VIR event that weekend, I'll be at that instead.
QuoteGood point Dave (closing in on 6000 posts! :o )
Can I get a job at your company? Do you have your own business? Does your boss not know or care? At the track and now that i think about this board I want to be more like you! :-*
Seriously how do you post so much?
I type fast.
I have a rather varied job schedule, and, often, I am my own boss. So, i don't make much money, now, do I...LOL!
I like racing. I have a
couple of years history in CCS racing.
QuoteSays the man who lives 30 minutes from the GNF! ::) Hey Mark! Check your voice mail and call me!
Who.... me? ???
QuoteWho.... me? ???
Pay attention! I quoted Mark Sorenson. Are you Numbskulls NE? No, I didn't think so!
Hey Bernard,
IT'S NOT ALWAYS ABOUT YOU! ;D
:'(
Lets have it at Summit Point!!! :D ;D ;)
I like Summit...
Me too. ;)
Q. How do you feel personally about Daytona? Having raced and worked here for 30 years, is it just a very serious place? Some people say motorcycles don't belong here. Others say because of the history we should still be racing the old track. What do you think?
A. I'm not sure what I think, but what I think is that the place is unlikely to disappear from the calendar.
From a personal standpoint, it wouldn't bother me. Somebody once said to me, "When you retire, it'll be great to come to Daytona and see all your friends." When I retire, I won't come here again. There's too much mental anguish, for me, associated with the place. It wouldn't bother me personally if we didn't race here at all. From a racing series standpoint, it's an important race to us, more from tradition than from any other standpoint, I think. But I don't think the AMA racing series would rise and fall on Daytona not being here any more.
As far as whether we should come here or not, I guess I have my own personal opinions. From a company standpoint, we want to be where the teams are. So I don't feel it's fair for me to say. Our company is here, we're doing our job, we're doing it to the best of our ability.
From a personal standpoint, I can say I don't think we belong here. That's not my company's view, but necessarily that's my own personal view. From my standpoint, it's a racetrack that's outlived its—it was dangerous when they came here in the old days. We didn't recognize it. It's much more dangerous now. When I rode, TZ750s were going 175 mph, and now they're going 196 or whatever they go. It's too fast for here. So I guess that's a long answer to a fairly short question, as far as Daytona goes.
---------------
Well that's interesting eh? (From Superbikeplanet's recent interview with Jim Allen of Dunlop.
CCS bikes do not go 196.
There are tracks that are on the schedule that have higher incidences of injuries per rider or per entry than Daytona.
Maybe you haven't raced at all the AMA tracks, but there are others on their schedule that are also dangerous. Not because of top speed, but because of the things that you can hit, and that riders have hit.
Sorry to rain on it, but I'd enjoy the opportunities for change, but I have yet to hear of any real alternatives. If you can't convince just a lowly racer like me, how are you going to get the a racing organization with thousands of riders to make a decision to change their successful long term relationship with a race track that has been a good venue for over twenty years?
I've got a trophy on my wall that says 5th place, Daytona ROC. It is perhaps my most cherished posession. Competing at Daytona was the rush of a lifetime. The history, the tradition, that bloody great wall.... :o
Does anyone remember when Al Unser Jr. won Indy? In the post-race interview, a very emotional Jr. choked, "You just don't know what Indy means." I feel that way about Daytona. Say what you will, find a better venue for the ROC, whatever. A different track might be better for all the right reasons. But Daytona will always be Daytona. Even now, thinking about being horizontal, five stories in the air makes my skin tingle and my eyes tear. I just hope that someday I'll have the money to go back there before I retire from racing, because riding that place was the thrill of a lifetime.
Guess I'll have to try and go to ROC next year and win a Championship just so I can go 'oooooooh dayTONA!'
Hopefully I'll see Cole Trickle.
QuoteGuess I'll have to try and go to ROC next year and win a Championship just so I can go 'oooooooh dayTONA!'
Hopefully I'll see Cole Trickle.
Not necessary to win. Just making that first lap will stand your hair on end. Hopefully you won't be in a rentacar when you see Cole. ;)
QuoteGuess I'll have to try and go to ROC next year and win a Championship
Hundreds go. Few ever win. Good Luck!
QuoteGuess I'll have to try and go to ROC next year and win a Championship just so I can go 'oooooooh dayTONA!'
Hopefully I'll see Cole Trickle.
Describing Daytona is kinda like that stupid Harley slogan that has been on every t-shirt for years...."If I had to explain, you wouldnt understand".
Go there once and give it a try. My guess is that you will be just like me when you come into the infield and look at the banking...scared!
QuoteDescribing Daytona is kinda like that stupid Harley slogan that has been on every t-shirt for years...."If I had to explain, you wouldnt understand".
Go there once and give it a try. My guess is that you will be just like me when you come into the infield and look at the banking...scared!
Yes! Yes!! Yes! Exactly!
I love Daytona!
Leave it in Fl.
I'ts cold up here.
After my 1st and only Daytona experience, ROC this year, I'd have to say that until you ride there, it is really indescribable. The high banks (totally insane your 1st lap) the nostalgia, the whole daytona thing.
By race time, I found myself looking forward to the banks each lap.
Does the ROC have to stay at Daytona, probably not,
Should it stay, my vote would be yes.
Just my 2cents
Paul
Polar-Optics
i hate daytona, my worst wrecks ever have been there,
25mph into the hay bales compressed vertebre in 92
120 on the back straight braking for the chicane, multiple contusions, concussion in 94
inside guardrail in turn 1 concussion, grade 5 acl seperation, broken collar bone in 98
165 mph on front straight in 2005 concussion, 7 broken bones
misc other small crashes
only won there once
i love DAYTONA and will be back
Daytona is my favorite Race Track, nothing else compares.
Buddy of mine just laughed at me when I mentioned going to Daytona this year (2006) to race. He said my bike would most likely blow up. That's a bummer. Going to take his word on it since he knows his way around Daytona better than most.
Dude I run around with up here got 2nd at ROC down there in our little class. Doh. Guess it'll have to wait until I get a 'real' bike and then my butt will get handed to me most likely. WOO HA.
So apparently the answer is "YES, ROC does have to be at Daytona because IT'S THE COOLEST" 8)
Bikes blow up at Road America too because even when more of the oval was used at Daytona, Road America is longer, period.
Check the bike over. Pretty simple.
Out of the several hundred bikes that run at DAYTONA, how many blow up? I would guess not many. I have run there several times without anyh problem, other than loosing a shifter because my friend forgot to locktite it, and also cracking a fairing bracket from the vibration on the banking.
I have however seen a few bikes get smashed into tin cans (example:green kaw 1000 in october)
Yeah, come to Brainerd some time. Not only will that place test the durability of your engine, it will also destroy your bike if you happen to go down in turns one or two. Nothing like going down while wide open in 6th gear to make a perfectly good race bike into a big paper weight!!!