Maybe a stupid question, but...
I raced CCS this year and really don't know anything about Formula Usa. At Daytona this weekend it looked like all the FUSA racers are experts.
Can someone please explain F-USA to me? Trying to decide if I am going to race CCS, WERA, FUSA next year.
Thanks
FUSA is a step up from WERA and CCS in competition... it involves a more rigorous travel schedule and likewise competition.
you need to carry an expert liscense to run in every class except thunderbike and the Team Challenge!
Clear Channel Entainment(CCE) purchased SFX Motorsports in 2000 after it, SFX, purchased CCS. FUSA was a program that started at Willow Springs in the mid 80's and was bought by someone to take nationally. FUSA was ran at WERA events, then it was ran alone. In 2000, it was purchased and put under the whole CCS, CCE, SFX program.
There have been amateur FUSA programs.
Currently, FUSA is like the national pro series for CCS. It's an add on to a CCS expert license. FUSA is only a national points series.
That help?
One could look at it as an amateur AMA series.
You're running tracks all over the country. Don't run the same track twice (with the exception of Daytona for start & finish weekends). The level of competition is a definite step up from CCS, but it doesn't have the factory guys that AMA does.
Consistent CCS Expert front runners can do well in FUSA (Ortega, Purk, Fuersthaler, Janisch, etc). If you're a mid-pack CCS guy, you're gonna be eaten for lunch.
Most people run CCS because it's a regional thing. Travel costs are reduced and vacation days needed are reduced as well. Plus, to run competitively in FUSA, you could simply slide the decimal point one place to the right on your current CCS budget...
.. need to be in pretty good shape to. None of this 6 lap sprint stuff. 15-18 laps usually. Grid by qualifying times to so as mentioned above, more $$.
Upside is that you get to feel like you're part of a bigger show. It's kinda neat to walk through the pits and pass a semi truck or two and know that you're a part of that.
It's more impressive for family/friends that come along to spectate.
Sometimes, there are actual spectators there... and it's kinda neat to go racing and know there are more than 1-2 people in the stands watching.
Travelling to different tracks can be fun (think, "On Any Sunday".) Sure, it's exhausting... but sometimes driving all night to go race all weekend, just to drive all night again to get home has a little allure and sense of adventure.
You get to play on "bigger" tracks.
QuoteYou get to play on "bigger" tracks.
LOL! Like Summit?
If FUSA is more like "the national pro series for CCS", and both the riders are on average more talented and the budgets are bigger, this begs the question why do they run combined CCS and FUSA races.....? Specifically for instance the Race Of Champions that just concluded in Daytona. Wouldn't it have made more sense to have say an AM class, and EX class, and a (I don't know) Expert-Expert class for the FUSA guys? If not, wouldn't crowning both a CCS and FUSA champion for each class make more sense?
Seems to me like having the FUSA guys race against the majority of the CCS expert guys, is akin to having a CCS expert race against a CCS Amateur. Or perhaps a better, and reversed analogy would be having a FUSA rider race against some of the AMA professionals.
Granted there are a few, the likes of Ortega, Purk, Fuersthaler, Key, and Janisch (plus others I've missed) who stand a higher than average chance of doing well in these combined events, and who may in fact be ready to go to the next level, but to the majority of CCS racers is this a fair setup? Certainly there are FUSA riders too who could hang with some of the AMA racers, but I'm betting the disparity is on average just as great as it is between the majority of CCS and FUSA riders.
Thoughts?
Experts are experts.
Seems like there might be a need for a "sportsman" category though. Something in between noob and fast.
QuoteExperts are experts.
Seems like there might be a need for a "sportsman" category though. Something in between noob and fast.
;D while we're at it, how about "noob plus"
The weekends are combined to save money.
The races and series are totally separate. CCS guys tend to enjoy the higher level of competition when FUSA comes to town, so some of them run the races.
I doubt that FUSA is large enough to survive completely on its own, so it rolls into the CCS races of whatever region they're in.
The class between NOOB & FAST is there already...
CCS Expert.
You could put a class between literally every series and ranking out there and there would still be disparities. In the AM ranks, you find people who at BHF can run within 1-2 seconds of the winning experts running in the same class as people who run 1:30+ and get lapped 2x per 8 lap sprint.
AM
EX
FUSA
AMA
It seems pretty reasonable and clear to me...
And fighting with the likes of Purk, Ortega, Fuersthaler, Rosno, etc continually causes/requires me to step up my game. Personally, I'd rather fight for 5th in expert than easily win an AM class.
QuoteSeems to me like having the FUSA guys race against the majority of the CCS expert guys, is akin to having a CCS expert race against a CCS Amateur. Or perhaps a better, and reversed analogy would be having a FUSA rider race against some of the AMA professionals.
well if you wanna go fast you gotta play with the big boys. I have no problem racing the really fast guys like may, barnes, jensen....Tho it kinda sucks that they show up to the ROC for national championships but keep in mind, most the them have been racing for years. The first ROC I did was in 2003 I finished like 20-25ish or so in most of my races. Now I pulled a 4th and all top tens. Purk and I led around all of the club guys this weekend. I pulled low 1:47s at Daytona not too bad but it's also not too good. May and company were doing mid 43s and 44s (on 600s)that's 3 to 4 seconds I have to make up...It sounds like a lot but it can be done! More set up time and I can do it. My bike kind of sucked this weekend and I know Purk was working on his bike all weekend. It's all about the set up.
I just look at it like, if they can go that fast why can't I?
You're not going to get faster if you're not racing faster people.
QuoteThe class between NOOB & FAST is there already...
CCS Expert.
If Tony Meiring showed up at Blackhawk, he'd race expert.
If Mladin showed up, he'd race expert too.
If Rossi showed up, he'd race expert too.
Regardless, as an expert, it would be my job to go race, improve my performance and set up to do the job. The points, purse, and contingency is there for the taking. That's what winning as an expert is.
But becoming an expert does not entitle one to anything. If there is contingency, go take it by performing.
To be an expert, you only need to show proficency to a reasonable degree. It's not about being the fastest.
That's about winning, being the fastest.
I raced fusa thunderbike this year as an AM and I felt that it made me become a faster rider. I kind of leveled off last year and coming into this year as an Am, but after following some fast riders around summit point I found new lines and shift points which really helped me become a faster contender today. I started this year at summit doing 1:26 after a fusa race i'm at low 23's. If your lightweight AM try a fusa race sometime.
QuoteLOL! Like Summit?
ummmmmm okay bad example ;)
Quotef they can go that fast why can't I?
You're not going to get faster if you're not racing faster people.
Bingo.
+1 :)
QuoteAnd fighting with the likes of Purk, Ortega, Fuersthaler, Rosno, etc continually causes/requires me to step up my game.
Jeff gets it!
QuoteClear Channel Entainment(CCE) purchased SFX Motorsports in 2000 after it, SFX, purchased CCS. FUSA was a program that started at Willow Springs in the mid 80's and was bought by someone to take nationally. FUSA was ran at WERA events, then it was ran alone. In 2000, it was purchased and put under the whole CCS, CCE, SFX program.
There have been amateur FUSA programs.
Currently, FUSA is like the national pro series for CCS. It's an add on to a CCS expert license. FUSA is only a national points series.
That help?
Don't forget PACE was in there somewhere too.
Just a point of fact - Bill Huth at Willow Springs started FUSA as a class for totally unlimited bikes. WERA Pro Series bough the class from Huth in 1991 and began running it as a class in the newly formed WERA Pro Series (basically the same as the National Challenge Series is now with FUSA as the premier class). We had some fun and had a very successful professional racing series that had TV when even the AMA didn't but the overall hassle and some internal issues with partners were more than Evelyne wanted to deal with so she sold WERA's interest to Doug Gonda for a dollar. Doug got money backing from CCS and he and CCS started NASB, that folded essentially and PACE bought CCS from the Edmondsons and the FUSA name from Gonda - they decided at that point to use the name for a series rather than a class (which is cool by me since the class had already been castrated to a mere shell of it's former self) and as time went on it couldn't do standalone events and runs as you see it now.
I'll skip pointing out my feelings on it being the next logical step before AMA for my own BBS :D
And I raced FUSA with WERA in 1990 and in 1991...just a couple of events.
Oliver had the Nitros powered TZ250 in '90 and the YZR500 in '91.
My evil GSXR750 for me.
The competition in the WERA nationals is deeper than the FUSA Nationals.
I think it depends on who shows up. I changes year to year. I think FUSA is depleated this year.
In the early 90's, some contigency races at Blackhawk would have been deeper than FUSA of a couple years ago.
I agree. When there is manuf. money available there are going to be guys that are not regulars.
I meant that there are more fast guys running closer lap times at the WERA Nationals. There are 8-10 guys in the premier WERA classes running similar lap times, where as FUSA there is Jeff Wood, Jensen, Greenwood then the rest of the field (usually a couple seconds a lap slower).
Yeah, I'll partially agree with that.
But if you put Jensen at those WERA events, he'll usually go as fast as he needs to to win...maybe two seconds faster than the rest of the field.
Wood doesn't do much outside of Loudon or FUSA. Same for Greenwood.
That doesn't mean anything about the organization. Riders are fast, not organizations.
We could say that AMA isn't deep for similar reasons...because you've got Mladin...then everyone a couple seconds behind. But we know that the field is deep.
Did you sell your bikes, Andy?
I see your point, and you're right. Their organization just seems to draw more fast guys.
I haven't sold them yet. If they don't sell by next month I will probably just turn them back into street bikes and sell them that way.
I like Robbie but he didn't win all of the events he ran with us and never ran 2 seconds a lap faster than the fast guys. He can run up fornt but it's not a walk away and as I said, he doesn't always win.
I don't know F-USA seemed like just a glorified regional. Once you got past the 4-5 full timers it was basically local regional guys. For Sure the WERA national series was a step up.
Money event weekends are about the same for both. But in the end F-USA is not what it was originally intended to be. And for sure nothing like it was years ago.
Mongo, you are too humble. Anyone who has run both organizations will tell you straight up, WERA in every aspect is plain better. Customer service etc. CCS plain sucks when it come to customer service / basic management.
QuoteI don't know F-USA seemed like just a glorified regional. Once you got past the 4-5 full timers it was basically local regional guys. For Sure the WERA national series was a step up.
Money event weekends are about the same for both. But in the end F-USA is not what it was originally intended to be. And for sure nothing like it was years ago.
Mongo, you are too humble. Anyone who has run both organizations will tell you straight up, WERA in every aspect is plain better. Customer service etc. CCS plain sucks when it come to customer service / basic management.
Having raced everything from LRRS (CCS) to AMA I have to agree, the WERA people do a kick ass job running their events. I always pre-enter for everything and at the WERA events I walk in, get my packet and stand there with a stupid look on my face expecting to have to argue about the classes they screwed up, money the over charged me etc (like i do at every LRRS event).
The WERA crew just sit there smiling at a stupid little foreign boy who wont go away and get ready for the weekend ;D
Registration, tech and competing at an event doesnt have to be hard, WERA proves this again and again. A lot of clubs make it hard on themselves and their riders for no other reason than "this is the way it has always been done" ::)
Quote. . .have to argue about the classes they screwed up, money the over charged me etc (like i do at every LRRS event).
Gee, and here I was thinking it was just me. ::) Yet Mongo insists its becuz I'm an a$$ all the time.
QuoteI like Robbie but he didn't win all of the events he ran with us and never ran 2 seconds a lap faster than the fast guys. He can run up fornt but it's not a walk away and as I said, he doesn't always win.
Yeah. Mladin doesn't always win either.
Still, Robbie made a lot more money that others did when he was running more of the contingency events. And at some point, he does recognize that he can go as fast as he needs to and win because it can be about winning money, saving the bike for the next weekend rather than trying to win an extended championship series run.
CCS has the FUSA series as WERA has the WERA National Challenge Series
CCS only has Am and Expert?
We have 3 ranks at LRRS.
Novice - Not Quick
Amateur - Sorta quick, somewhat slow
Expert - Quick
Seems weird it's not that way for everyone. Just 2 classes! Crazy. Maybe it's a lack of entries in some places? We tend to have a good amount of entries at LRRS.
You've got Novice/Amateur, Junior, Expert.
Got to ROC and the LRRS Juniors compete as Experts.
LRRS has bigger entry numbers than most regions.
I think the LRRS system is good. Has merit. Very traditional way of classifying riders like the AMA does in Dirt Track.
QuoteYou've got Novice/Amateur, Junior, Expert.
Got to ROC and the LRRS Juniors compete as Experts.
LRRS has bigger entry numbers than most regions.
I think the LRRS system is good. Has merit. Very traditional way of classifying riders like the AMA does in Dirt Track.
Dave--they changed the names to let the JRs run as AM everywhere else and collect money. What used to be JR is now AM and what used to be AM is now Novice