Okay this has hit a nerve with me.
I have been at a multitude of races all over the country and this is just getting old. People just keep disregarding or thinking it does not apply to me something; I have not figured it out.
Checkered flag: race qualifying or practice is over come in to pits NOW! not I only did 6 laps of a 7 lap race because I was lapped so I still have a lap left to do or well I was the first to get the checker in practice and I am going so fast I can get another lap in real quick, no harm no foul; maybe there is going to be a crossing of ambulance or corner worker services(water, radio personeel) planned for the time between practice groups that now has to wait for the special fast guy. For qualfying timing has stopped if you see the checker flag the timing loop is already turned off come in you are just wasting time, gas and tires pushing any further. Maybe qualifying and practice should end on red? nah then you are on to my next pet peeve
Red flag. Slow down! no wheelies no racing, major safety issue(s) on track and just because you think you are past the incident does not mean there is not something else ahead that may have been part of the reason for red ie mutiple bikes down in different areas, oil, debris, etc.
Debris flag: three purposes all debris 1. displayed and CW pointing at debris on course or signaling direction to move to avoid (most people seem to grasp this one) 2. folded in triangle pointed skward, there is debris falling from the sky IE rain 3. and the one people seem to have trouble with debris flag pointed at you, who me? YES you! then you are the one casuing the debris IE losing bodywork, leaking fluid etc Get off line and get off track NOW! Do not proceed to pit lane/starter/etc proceed to conerworker stand off track they have radio communication to tell what the problem is that you may or may not be able to see in a simple scan of the bike.
The flags are the best way of communicating to you the racer what is ahead and when you are having trouble. If you do not follow the direction of these flags then you are possibly putting yourself or fellow riders in for unexpected situations and wasting others time (ie 3 hour oil clean-ups by all the cornerworkers, safety personnel, race director, control, etc while the riders even the one(s) that caused it go back to fix, relax, socialize in pits; I think the rider(s) should come help when they mess up the track unsure on policy on that though) FYI by simple calculation of time lost from racing and materials oil clean-ups cost anywhere from 1500-3000 an hour depending on track. Keep the oil in the bikes if you have exposed oil lines check them for abrasion proximty to exhaust if you have an oil to air cooler check that for rock chips fatigue etc. Tech cannot check every bike for every possible problem it is your bike your hide and the hide of your fellow racers make your bikes race worthy.
rant off or at least on a break for a now
Eric
Thanks for putting this up. The problem with the debris flag and getting off right away when there are leaks, etc. is a concern for us (corner workers). :)
GO ERIC! BRAVO!
Seven years of racing, and I've never flubbed a flag or pulled a blend line violation. I got a few debris flag waveoffs, and pulled off at the next station. (Not all the way around to pit lane....) Once I popped an oil leak on the front straight. All the starter had time to do was grab the black flag, wave it, and point at me with her finger. I stopped before turn one!
Is it because I used to be a corner worker? Well, that doesn't have anything to do with the hands and feet that control my bike. Everything you mentioned in your rant gets repeated at every riders meeting, sometimes two or three times a weekend. No experienced racer doesn't know this stuff. For a first-year amateur to screw up, well, that's acceptable. Our learning curve is steep. Just don't make a habbit out of it. For a multi-year racer to blow it? OK, maybe once you didn't see a flag. Mistakes happen. Regular repeat offenders should be crucified.
This weekend at Wegman, Bill covered the red flag and track exiting procedure in excruciating detail. I sat right there and listened to every word with the rest of the racers. I'd heard it all before, about a million times. I would have rather been taking a nap. Of course, two hours later an expert racer did precicely the opposite of what he'd been told, and caused a three bike pileup. As I stood looking at the carnage, I flashed back to the rider's meeting. It was as if Bill had been looking into a crystal ball. He had described this accident to a tee before it even happened....
I don't know if there was a fine involved there, but maybe there should have been.
And to add into what Eric said, there is NO PASSING ON RED FLAGS!!!
I dont know what the hell was in the water at BHF during the Wegman, but I've never seen so many people take an extra lap during practice.
Also since I was in T7 working, I seen ALOT of riders who were coming into the pits that SWUNG OUT to the outside of the racing surface and swung back across to the pits. You are supposed to stay to the inside when you are coming in.
Good post Eric...
I went and talked to the corner workers to give them a racer's perspective a few weekends ago (at the request of Bill Richter). It was a great exchange. I think we should really work on getting combined meetings where the CW's come to the rider's meeting and/or the riders sit in on the CW meeting.
Flags are something that people tend to neglect, and it can/will bite you...
I think ALL new racers should work a corner on Sunday after taking Learning Curves on Saturday! I know that they want to get out there & race (why else would they be there) but both in class & on the track their brains were over loaded with VERY IMPORTANT information. By corner working on Sunday it would give them another day to jam pack all this information into their brain. It would also give them a chance to see the other side of the fence and why the corner workers do certain things. Another thing it could achieve would be the opportunity to have the "Best seat in the house" and watch other racers (both expert & AM). Nothing beats actual experience and the experience of corner working could only help make their racing experience an awesome and SAFE experience! Maybe what is needed is to make habitual offenders also work corners, no mater what there experience or there points. The only problem with this is that I hate to make corner working a punishment. It is not! Proper corner working and energetic corner workers are a vital part for the fun and safety of this sport
Racers are always too busy to work a turn. They've got other things to do I guess.
I've always thought it should be a requirement for obtaining a race license. Work at least 2 days on a turn before you get your license.
QuoteRacers are always too busy to work a turn. They've got other things to do I guess.
I've always thought it should be a requirement for obtaining a race license. Work at least 2 days on a turn before you get your license.
Actually it should be one to go expert also.
That's how it works with WSMC. You have to spend a whole day (or two half days) out at a corner...which is worse than hell in the summer... Once you have 30 points and have 3 races as an amateur, you can no longer race until you do your cornerwork.
You don't actually WORK the corner, but you are there...and if you pay attention you learn from it. Unfortunately, I'd guess that not everybody pays attention.
-Brian
WOO HOO!!! :) :) :)
Thank you for your posts and this thread. I am one of the energetic, dedicated corner workers. We are out there for the racers, and appreciate knowing that SOMEONE is paying attention sometimes. Really, the flags we carry actually do mean something, and we are out there looking out for all of you!
Kumi
"I want to see YOU waving TO me, not ME waving FOR you!!" ;)
Maybe you should post this in the corner workers thread. If you see oil on the track or THINK oil is on the track, It should be a automatic red flag not just a waving yellow, Seen it two weekends in a row a Blackhawk, Brian Hall broke some bones over it :-/
Stumpy
QuoteMaybe you should post this in the corner workers thread. If you see oil on the track or THINK oil is on the track, It should be a automatic red flag not just a waving yellow, Seen it two weekends in a row a Blackhawk, Brian Hall broke some bones over it :-/
Stumpy
If an oil slick is bad enough, the session/race should always be stopped and is stopped 99% of the time. The question a worker should always ask him or herself, "Is it safe to continue?" If there is the slightest doubt that it is not safe to continue, the worker should immediately call control and ask for a stoppage. No one will be upset if one err's on the side of caution.
Second, a waving yellow is not the proper flag to display in that situation. It should be the debris flag, possibly rocked back and forth, depending on the sanctioning body.
Third, a red flag would not get the offender off the track surface quick enough. Example, a session is stopped because of oil in Turn 9 or 10, the offender is now in Turn 1 when the red flag is given. That offender now gets to go all the way around the track dropping his crap.
A debris flag pointed at YOU means GET THE F OFF the track surface as soon as safely possible. No cornerworker station? No problem, pull into the grass in a non-impact zone, one of the workers will be with you shortly. We won't forget about ya, promise.
QuoteMaybe you should post this in the corner workers thread. If you see oil on the track or THINK oil is on the track, It should be a automatic red flag not just a waving yellow, Seen it two weekends in a row a Blackhawk, Brian Hall broke some bones over it :-/
Stumpy
And also, why should this be posted in the cornerworkers thread?
How many racers read the cornerworkers thread?
The original post by Eric was created because a racer did not properly react to a flag displayed to him/her. This is a situation that involves racers and effects everyone. Post it in a general place.
I really don't understand how anyone who's been through more than one race weekend can screw this up...
This is my first year racing, and while I was certainly overwhelmed the first couple races, I was still more than capable of comprehending what a flag meant.
The Pit-in and Pit-out violations just plain don't make sense. If you can't figure out those simple rules, you've got no business turning a wheel in a race. I've done several track days this year and the same stupid, simple issues happen each time.
I honestly don't think it's an education issue, I think it's a "select group of people who have their head someplace it shouldn't be and/or simply don't care" issue. These people need to be thinned from the herd. Either we do it, or Darwin will take care of it, and will likely take some of the non-offenders along for the ride.
If there is ANY oil on the track we do stop the race. I have seen bikes running without belly pans. And that right there is dangerous. That's why we stress getting off as soon as you see the debris flag, instead of trying to make it into the pits. We are allowed to get right on the track to wave you off, but if it's a heated race, I'm not putting myself in harms way. It's up to the rider to see the flags. Maybe we should have lights instead of flags.
Quote I have seen bikes running without belly pans.
Only 4 strokes that are allowed on track without belly pans are people who just passed the LCR school on sat. And honestly they should have them on to race even if they just took teh school the day before. With the exception of 2 strokes and the actual school, no bikes should be racing without bellypans.
Also...We try and teach workers to 'hit' someone with the debris point multiple times if possible.
If you as a rider see a corner worker with a debris flag and then furl it and point at you MULTIPLE TIMES as you go thru the turn that should be a clear indication that YOU are the debris.
Granted it's not always possible to hit the rider with multiple points and he/she may be in a pack of other riders.
I do understand your point. If I were on that track, I would be concerned with my curve. It is hard to watch us too. But that is what you train for. Your muscles in your eyes are the most used muscle in your body. It is true. Racing is the most diffucult to keep focus on two things at once. But we are there to help you and to keep you safe. I love the racing. I, in my own way care about all of you racing. That's why I came into it. You amaze me with your no fear attitude. I just want you guys to pay more attention to the flags for your own good. Mistakes happen out there, but we can avoid them with concern and awareness. ;)