Yup, last year I had $140 in credits due to me from CCS. After 6 months of 1/2 dozen phone calls and about the same # of e-mails, I finally bargained with Ft Worth to pay for my '05 license with $100 of those credits. Voila!! My license showed up ASAP.
Now, I have a $55 credit from my ACC weekend's ambulance ride to the hospital; the race director was standing right there next to me in the ambulance so I notified him I would not make Super Twins. 8 weeks later I am told by Linda Hipps that I have to be more patient. So, being that there's only about 6 weeks left of racing in the Midwest how much more patient should I be? Why are we reduced to begging for credits to use at the frickin race tracks we are owed? Linda seems to think that she is being "CONSIDERATE" in issuing a credit. I think it's considerate when my checks don't bounce.
I think it's considerate I don't tell folks how to sneak in to the tracks for free. I've considered this long enough and I think the way to solve these discrepancies faster is with the help of RRW magazine. Mr. Editor Ulrich always wants to know when subscribers are having difficulty with one of their advertisers. CCS is no exception.
Okay, I'll go out on a limb here...
When I crashed at MAM, I knew I would miss 3 races during the rest of that day. I went over to registration to see about a refund.
on the paperwork, it states:
THIS SHEET MUST BE PROCESSED BEFORE GRIDS ARE POSTED DURING THE DAY OF THE RACE...
Because of it, I didn't even bother trying to get a refund.
This being the case, was your supertwins race that same day? If it was, you aren't due a refund! Even if it WAS that day, you still forfeit the first entry fee after the last race you started in...
Yeah, I guess your right Jeff. I guess it seems strange that Linda and Tiff would agree CCS owes me credits/refunds and then postpone it to death until what? I give up. Reminds me of that Grisham movie about General Casualty Insurance never accepting a claim and always denying. Except, this is the reverse in they accept the claim but never pay, unless it favors them. I wonder how many other racers they owe refunds justly...Oh well.
I do feel your pain though... The one that got me was in 03 when I blew my motor during the 2nd race at Road America.
I pre-entered for like $500 worth of races. There was never a mention of "no refunds" until I got to Road A. Then there was a sign at registration that said "No refunds at Road America". So I popped my motor and was out $300+ in entries. I was ticked, but oh well.
Then 2 months later I talk to 3 different guys who ALL received refunds for mechanical or injury problems that kept them from completing the ROAD AMERICA weekend... Yes, the same weekend which was posted for "no refunds".
I guess the inconsistency is what gets frustrating for everyone. I've just been around long enough to resign that it's not worth my anger/frustration to get back $100...
Just let it go and move on... Is that what you should have to do? No. But it beats being angry/frustrated...
QuoteI do feel your pain though... The one that got me was in 03 when I blew my motor during the 2nd race at Road America.
I pre-entered for like $500 worth of races. There was never a mention of "no refunds" until I got to Road A. Then there was a sign at registration that said "No refunds at Road America". So I popped my motor and was out $300+ in entries. I was ticked, but oh well.
Then 2 months later I talk to 3 different guys who ALL received refunds for mechanical or injury problems that kept them from completing the ROAD AMERICA weekend... Yes, the same weekend which was posted for "no refunds".
I guess the inconsistency is what gets frustrating for everyone. I've just been around long enough to resign that it's not worth my anger/frustration to get back $100...
Just let it go and move on... Is that what you should have to do? No. But it beats being angry/frustrated...
Dang, out $300!!? The anger and frustration is in some folks not doing their jobs. If someone who bought one of my products, whom had help pay my wages, had such service I would be out of my job. Unfortunately, I have addiction going here and common sense doesn't matter, eh? They know this. No, I don't know who "they" are but "they" are convenient to blame. It's an addiction I can't get help for.
It's just a small IV that runs from a Ziploc bag in my pocket. Nothing serious, my employer is unaware of it. My wife is starting to suspect though. (I had furlough from her K bikes tranny job and her Volvo's new rotor and pad work to run my front wheel to a machinist yesterday to check '51 rotor runout.) Ever have 3 or 4 projects running at the same time and they're almost all closely related, ie brakes? I'm a speed junky and I'm NOT EVEN THAT FAST yet!? Hooked, strung out, and strung along by wood carrots. That's right, wood carrots that hang on a garage wall noone wants to look at but me, and I don't even find them all that exciting. Should get some help. I don't balance the checkbook until it's time to consider suspension work. My wife knows the difference between Motul 600 and regular DOT 4. The dog won't come out to the garage with me anymore to fix. That extra $100 would sure help with fuel money, or maybe a set of HRC pads. Coulda gone to the benefit last weekend. Wow, can't wait for those new rotors, brake lines, and Motul to show up...What ah, what were we talking about? Did you see Colin's 4th in GP points? Dang...
You can appeal.
If everyone said, "Yes," you might have reason to believe that you are due a refund.
Find out if you need to resubmit a form, something. Being in an ambulance might be just cause for you, etc.
I was taken out of the days races at Gignerman, I had 3-4 more races through out the day, but couldn't make it as I went to the hospital. I had a lovely lady that was pitted next to me go notify race directors that I was done for the day. I called Tiffany or Linda, I forget which, and asked if I'd see a refund. They said yes, but they where behind so please be patient...whooaaallaa I recieved my credit slips in the mail in a couple weeks.
Politeness goes a long way...especially when your refund lies in a grey area.
Be happy you can get any sort of refund.
The rule for both CCS and WERA when I started racing : Once a bike passed through tech inspection, no refunds for any reason.
Its all in the way you present it to the ladies.
I think "REFUND" and "RACE CREDITS" are looked at differently.
I have had mechanicals before and I had to leave RA early one year when the last race on Saturday was pushed to Sunday. I couldn't stay. I asked for a credit for later. They sent me the credit in the mail.
I think the way they look at it is if you want a refund, you are expecting your cash back. If you ask for a credit, that money is still spent with CCS.
Any takes on my point of view?
QuoteAny takes on my point of view?
Being pleasant will get you MUCH farther than trying to force your point... There's no debate in that...
QuoteBeing pleasant will get you MUCH farther than trying to force your point... There's no debate in that...
I agree, absolutely, %100. Last year I was polite for 6 1/2 months and received 100 of the 140 dollars credit in the form of my '05 license. This year I was polite for 8 weeks. I returned the transponder late at BFR this weekend. I corresponded with Linda in a polite fashion, until I was told she was being "considerate" as result of the heat incident at ACC. Oh well, no need to worry, there'll be more guys with wads of cash to throw at registration this weekend at another track. Shoot, my IV's empty.(knockknock) Is that the Fed Ex guy? ;D
BTW- On another note, last Monday Fed Ex did appear with that E bay item from Detroit area bought in February!? Thanks Dan ::)
I would call judge judy.
QuoteI would call judge judy.
Got her #? That robe is sexy hotness, I bet she has a slinky pink one for the bedroom and a riding crop. 8)
I gave up trying to get refunds a long time ago.
Road A in '04, I crashed in the NESBA practice day and knocked my head pretty good. Spent most of the afternoon in the hospital trying to remember where I was, how I got there, etc.
Got out of the hospital in time to make it up to Siebkins to get through registration (I pre-registered.) Sat down across a table from Tiffany, told her what happened, and asked if I could pull out of my Friday and Saturday races. Since it was before the weekend actually started, she said "sure, no problem" and told me I'd have to get ahold of them later in the week when she returned to TX, as she didn't have whatever it was she needed to do the refund. Okay cool.
It's over a year later. Emails and phone calls have passed in the dozens. Nothing. You come here to the board and all you get are excuses. So-and-so has been sick, overworked, had a sick kid, "give us a break"... whatever. If CCS were any other type of company, and not primarily providing a hobby for us, they would have gone out of business a LONG time ago. Someone else out there really needs to take this gig over and run it like a business, treat it's customers like CUSTOMERS, and knock it off with all this "feel sorry for us" liberal-minded BS.
Quotelike CUSTOMERS, and knock it off with all this "feel sorry for us" liberal-minded BS.
;D
E-mail me, Jim.
QuoteI gave up trying to get refunds a long time ago.
Road A in '04, I crashed in the NESBA practice day and knocked my head pretty good. Spent most of the afternoon in the hospital trying to remember where I was, how I got there, etc.
Got out of the hospital in time to make it up to Siebkins to get through registration (I pre-registered.) Sat down across a table from Tiffany, told her what happened, and asked if I could pull out of my Friday and Saturday races. Since it was before the weekend actually started, she said "sure, no problem" and told me I'd have to get ahold of them later in the week when she returned to TX, as she didn't have whatever it was she needed to do the refund. Okay cool.
It's over a year later. Emails and phone calls have passed in the dozens. Nothing. You come here to the board and all you get are excuses. So-and-so has been sick, overworked, had a sick kid, "give us a break"... whatever. If CCS were any other type of company, and not primarily providing a hobby for us, they would have gone out of business a LONG time ago. Someone else out there really needs to take this gig over and run it like a business, treat it's customers like CUSTOMERS, and knock it off with all this "feel sorry for us" liberal-minded BS.
Sent you a PM Jim. Your story is the same I've heard over and over again.
Uh hello Ft. Worth, Hello Chicago, could someone just drop a credit slip in the mailbox? Editor Ulrich is interested in this one I believe. How 'bout BHF on weekend of 24th Sept? Would someone be around to issue a credit in registration for that weekend of racing?
So the public threat to CCS rates as sticky... sigh...
People, this is NOT how to get things done... Do you expect Kevin to come on here, apologize and say "okay everyone, check your mail for the credit slips"? Yes, things need to change, but this is not the right way...
Just my opinion. I'll shut up now.
QuoteSo the public threat to CCS rates as sticky... sigh...
People, this is NOT how to get things done... Do you expect Kevin to come on here, apologize and say "okay everyone, check your mail for the credit slips"? Yes, things need to change, but this is not the right way...
Just my opinion. I'll shut up now.
Jeff you are correct....but....they do have issues.
What I do not have a problem with is people using the forum to generate interest and bring attention to an issue like this in a tactful manner! How about like this....
Hi, my name is Tommy and I was wondering if anyone else was having issues getting refunds due to them. 8)
I know they have issues.
Take it to the right source and work it diplomatically and per the written rules. Don't throw threats and hold a public gathering to take up pitchforks and torches...
QuoteI know they have issues.
Take it to the right source and work it diplomatically and per the written rules. Don't throw threats and hold a public gathering to take up pitchforks and torches...
You are 100% correct. I do try to look at it from both sides though. I think people get a little worked up over $$$$$ Being that a lot of racers are on a shoe string budget. Poor Linda is caught in the middle though, and that`s a job I wouldn`t want.
I promise I`ll be tactful and polite in my quest for refunds!! ;D!!
QuoteI know they have issues.
Take it to the right source and work it diplomatically and per the written rules. Don't throw threats and hold a public gathering to take up pitchforks and torches...
Hey Jeff, I'm sorry, I did not mean to give the impression of pitchforks and torches. I tried the diplomatic approach last year with LOTS of e-mails and phone calls over the course of 6 months. Then, I came here to ask the ??s as Tommy G so nicely put them. Nothing ever got done except for my level of frustration was pushed to the limit, and I spent LOTS of time doing the actual petitioning via phone and computer.
The same avenue was being taken by Ft. Worth again this year. I don't have the time to send weekly e-mail reminders to CCS, and I'm starting to see that's what they depend on to make some extra money. I was getting angry and taking it personally. That's over and done with. Now, it's just business and money. Pretty simple. If the diplomatic channels of telephone and computer do not work after weeks, months, and a new race year is looming take it to Road Racing World's John Ulrich.
Mr. Ulrich takes complaints against advertisers seriously. I was not issuing a threat of any sort. Mr. Ulrich has already looked into this for me and found misinformation was the source from Ft. Worth. Supposedly my credit requests stem from an ROC weekend which I never registered for nor attended. First time I'd heard that claim?!
I would think that CCS would like to clear the books of all these refunds/credits due and get on with business with a clear conscience. That would be the decent and Christian thing to do, AND perhaps more racers would stick around. WOW, wouldn't that be a novel idea; people sticking around more than 3 years.
My apologies Jeff, I'm not after a public roast. I just wanna see those of us due our monies properly credited. If other racers want to just let their money go, that's their decision.
You don't need to apologize to me. I understand the situation...
Jeff just sounds big and tough. He`s actually sensitive and sexy! ;D
I'm the sticky one.
There isn't any bashing going on. Things are what they are.
Certainly, many racers live in a bit of a vacuum when there are problems with suppliers and organizations. If no one recognizes that there is a problem getting a credit, then no one talks about it.
This is a problem that has many ramifications.
One, if you're a regular racer, how on earth are you going to get your money back that is rightfully yours? Individuals have hit on the process of doing it. There are ways to do that.
Second, if you're a new racer, how is this going to make you want to continue doing business with a company? Again, if you don't have the resources that tell you, "Yeah, it's BS, but it took me 14 months to get my refund...but I did finally get it," that person might quit. Ok, fine, maybe you don't care, but it is nice to have people to race with. And it's nice if those people do quit that they don't feel so much animosity for the organization that is supposed to be supplying a product to the racers that they might come and watch, help our, use your sponsors product even.
I don't expect a CCS response because of this thread. That is for calls, FAXes, etc. But when a person has exhaused those means...
What is there to do?
Is this a random occurance?
Is it a problem for racers?
Is it a problem for the organization?
It appears that it is something that creates hardship for racers on a regular basis. It doesn't appear to be random. Many people have followed the instructions to the letter only to have to wait months and months for a reasonable response. Nagging to the point of exhaustion cannot be a reasonable coarse of action. It's not in the rule book.
So then Dave, what purpose does this thread hold?
What does it tell the new racer?
What does it do for the person who is trying to get a refund?
What is the overall end result you expect out of drawing further attention to this particular thread?
QuoteSo then Dave, what purpose does this thread hold?
What does it tell the new racer?
What does it do for the person who is trying to get a refund?
What is the overall end result you expect out of drawing further attention to this particular thread?
The purpose that this thread holds is to send messages to multiple receivers; CCS, racers, sponsors, and potential racers. The message is that the system is broken as it sits now. This needs to be acknowledged, addressed, and set on a new course for action. Perhaps Dave has another opinion and I'm sure he does.
To keep our monies/credits due to us is wrong. Plain and simple. I have all the e-mail correspondence from Ft. Worth that acknowledges my credits due. I could just as easily take this to my UAW appointed FREE attorneys and let them do the rest of the correspondance with Ft. Worth and get the money. What good would that do anybody else? The system would still be broken. This is not a perfect solution Jeff, but it's better than remaining silent about a prevalent situation in an organization that is turning it's back on racers.
I would like to continue the racing. I have a long way to go before I die, I hope. I'd like to develop a little more racecraft before I go. It's just money and business so please don't take this thread personally.
Good questions.
What does it tell the new racer? First that there is a process that should be followed for refunds. Second, regardless of one's following of procedure, expect to make ridiculous attempts to get the problem rectified.
What does it do for the person trying to get a refund? First that there may have been a process that they should have followed. Potentially they may not have. Second, some have not followed the process and have received refunds even when refunds apparently were not to be issued. Although there is said to be a stated process and window of opportunity, at times, those windows seeminly have changed. Thirdly, given many multiple attempts to help the situation in a timely and cordial manner, some refunds have still yet to be given.
Purpose? Really, at what point is this not important? I'm sure that Kevin would like to have the credits issued. I'd really like CCE to give him a budget to take care of the things that he needs to execute properly. That's abuot it.
I had to grip for fourteen months. My paperwork for my credit was prepared before I entered registration. I followed the process expecting that, in a reasonable amount of time, I would get my credit. I could understand 60 days, although I didn't like the idea. Continued messages netted no call backs, and when I did talk to a real person, there was no recognition of previous messages and the like.
To me, it appears that there is a very basic lack of accountability at the ground level when the credit information is received. It apparently gets there, but it actually takes too much time for that information to be found.
It seems simple that one would have a folder that had all of the requests for credit. Maybe once every two weeks, an individual would go through that and process or deny those requests. Would there be a reasonable process that could be different?
Quote Uh hello Ft. Worth, Hello Chicago, could someone just drop a credit slip in the mailbox? Editor Ulrich is interested in this one I believe. How 'bout BHF on weekend of 24th Sept? Would someone be around to issue a credit in registration for that weekend of racing?
TTT
No one in registration can issue credits.
It's either TX or Chicago, but I can't tell you anything about the process. All of my calls in my issue were to Texas, and that was supposedly the place to call.
I always get taken care of with my credit refunds.
Of course I regularly send flowers and chocolate.
QuoteI always get taken care of with my credit refunds.
Of course I regularly send flowers and chocolate.
Dude, youi should be working on that 180 RWHP bike of yours. After Putnam it is evident that you need another 10-15 HP. And yes it was a pleasure showing you the fast way around on my 100% stock Amoca fuelled, piston skirt scuffed, too tight cylinder, 1:13 bike. 8)
I saw 2:13's on your lap timer.... I saw 1:30's on your lap timer... :P
I believe that a 1:13 was a figment of your imagination.
Hey matt, any chance I could rent that 180rwhp monster for blackhawk? ;D
I really would... but it will be at Autobahn NESBA that weekend...
I have some testing to do... its either that or loose weight...testing is easier.
we`ve already talked about that....I`m not going there again! ;D
Quote Yup, last year I had $140 in credits due to me from CCS. After 6 months of 1/2 dozen phone calls and about the same # of e-mails, I finally bargained with Ft Worth to pay for my '05 license with $100 of those credits. Voila!! My license showed up ASAP.
Now, I have a $55 credit from my ACC weekend's ambulance ride to the hospital; the race director was standing right there next to me in the ambulance so I notified him I would not make Super Twins. 8 weeks later I am told by Linda Hipps that I have to be more patient. So, being that there's only about 6 weeks left of racing in the Midwest how much more patient should I be? Why are we reduced to begging for credits to use at the frickin race tracks we are owed?
This morning was the first time I was notified of this situation. Since, I don't know your name, I can't be sure, but I believe you are the racer that I mailed credit slips to today. Generally, once the paperwork is received from the Fort Worth Office, the credit slips are mailed out either that day or the next at the latest.
In addition, registrars at the track cannot issue credits - Each credit request must be checked for verification of races and whether the racer participated in an event he was registered.
Pam Murphy
Chicago Office
Pam,
Should individuals contact you when they are due credits?
Our base of contacts is the Texas office, unless, we are told to contact you.
But I'm thinking that until things are actually executed in Texas, you cannont issue a credit. Correct?
QuoteThis morning was the first time I was notified of this situation. Since, I don't know your name, I can't be sure, but I believe you are the racer that I mailed credit slips to today. Generally, once the paperwork is received from the Fort Worth Office, the credit slips are mailed out either that day or the next at the latest.
In addition, registrars at the track cannot issue credits - Each credit request must be checked for verification of races and whether the racer participated in an event he was registered.
Pam Murphy
Chicago Office
Thanks Pam, would that have been for Todd Erickson? Hopefully...
Thanks Mr. Editor...
Dave,
Your right, everyone needs to continue to go through the FTW office, I can only help once the information has been forwarded to me.
Todd,
I can't be 100% certain but I think you are the one I sent out credits for - you can contact me via e-mail to check...pammurphy@clearchannel.com - It's not that I have that bad of a memory, but between yesterday and today I did about 2,000 different things not all related to RR.
Pam
Cool, Pam. Thank you for helping in this matter for Todd. I've been in his position.
At the last BHF round I sucked the valves into my head during the friday practice. So while pre registestration was happening I thought it best for me to inform the girls that I would not be participating in the weekends events and see if we could fill out the proper paperwork so that I could get my refunds. You'll never believe this, they couldn't find my pre entry, even though I called and talked to Linda and she said that she did get the fax. Now the girls reassured me that if they didn't have it that my credit card wouldn't get billed, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and told them that if my bike hadn't broke I would have been upset. But seeing how I couldn't race anyway everything was fine. A week later I get my credit card statement and sure enough I got charged, after three phone calls to Linda with no return call or reply I'm starting to get upset. Now this is not the first time that this has happened to me, but let me get this straight. CCS wants us to pre enter so that we can have good grids, because for whatever reason they don't want to grid by points. Now the entry has to be at the office two weeks prior to the event. I'm not so sure about everyone else but I have to bust my a$$ to race without going into huge debt. And i'm not always sure two weeks ahead if im going to have enough money to pay all my bills let alone race. Why do we have to let them sit on our money for at least two weeks or longer just so that we can have a good grid?
Scott,
You should call your cc company and deny the charge. If anything, it'll be interesting to see if your preentry all of a sudden shows up.
Good luck to everyone in this rediculous situation.
Heather
QuoteWhy do we have to let them sit on our money for at least two weeks or longer just so that we can have a good grid?
Totally agreed.
Or, if you're racing for contingency money, you enter that race about three to nine months in advance to get a good position.
Doesn't really take care of anyone that actually follows the series for points, but those would be customers that one would be getting a majority of their money from.
There was supposed to be a new computer program in place at CCS at the end of 2002 that would have been capable of doing this, but I can't say that it ever happened. This is also a long standing issue that many riders have raised.