Several riders tested the Shenandoah track today. All six of us didn't like it much. Unfortunately it was wet all day and we didn't get a real good test. Two of the six riders crashed in one of the 1st gear off camber corners. There is a new chicane added on the back straight to slow the riders down for turn one because it has very little runoff, but the chicane points you right at a wall itself requiring you to come within 3-4' of it, but it will be covered by foam bails AND airfence ???. I speculate that most crashes are going to cause red flags because there is nowhere for the bikes to go since the track is lined on both sides by concrete walls and will be near impossible to retrieve a bike from the track while the races are running. The size of the paddock will be barely sufficient as long as the turn out is light. If you plan on racing there bring some big rear sprockets as it is very tight and technical. Never got out of 3rd gear today in the wet. The track should be ok for the lightweight bikes if the grids aren't too big, but I am not so sure about thirty-forty 600s on that track together. This is just my opinion, maybe the others will put theirs on here as well. Everybody needs to decide for themselves what level of risk they are willing to take.
I second Arnie's emotion- and not just because I crashed! ;D
It is easier to list the turns that DO have appropriate runoff than those that do. Basically I felt like i was riding in a canyon the whole time. If canyone asked me if they should race there I'd say- it's your choice, but I am very uncomfortable with the track. It feels like the track was cobbled together, and then more cobbling was done to try to make it safe.
Mucho thanks to Kevin for setting it up, and for being candid with his opinions and for listening to ours. I'm sorry if i cut anyone's riding short by brining the ambulance out... :-[
Well, I am not sure what to do. I trust Arnie's opinion a lot. He has been racing for years and a good friend. It really sucks that this track has to be the way it is. Is it a money thing, pressure from Clear Channel? Who knows. If there has to be this much testing and so many unfixed/unanswered issues concerning this track, why race it? The passing I hear is going to be near impossible so what are riders going to do? Make desperation passing attempts, stuffing, crashing, hitting walls with "soft walls" which usually arent too soft, causing red flags because bikes cant be moved during races. Not to mention the "other org" but I feel they made a great descision and look what happened..they were given another date on Summit Main. They to had riders "test" the track and listened to feedback and opted to listen to the riders. Why cant CCS do this, make that round a DP round or Twin Sprint Round and eliminate Both remaining Shanendoah rounds. I am in a dilema. Should I pre-enter and ride for points? This whole situation really sucks. The feedback I have heard to date has all been really negative about this track, riders dont seem to keen on racing there, and guys who I have talked to who have done just track days there werent very happy either. I rode it, didnt like it much and like the above post states, "feels like riding in a canyon". thats a good way to describe it. CCS----try for another main date!! One other thing, what is the scedule of events for the Shanendoah date? Flame away.
All good posts, I was there for the test...I did not ride due to wrong tire choice for a rain day. I did drive w/ everyone in a car. It is very tight...I am not going to race it, one of our team members has to race it for PTS. (it sucks) Everyone there had the same idea...it could be a fun track day w/ few people..but not a race track. We were told that if the + flag comes out...it will be a auto red flag. (there is not enough room to have the bus and us on the track at the same time) ??? Anyways...People will wreck...alot more than normal and alot worse. Its simple...CCS cant afford to race there if no one comes. I think they said they need 150 people to turn out to break even...Kevin said if they cant afford to race there...they will cancel the last event. (so for everyone that does not need pts...DONT GO!) They are going to make it as safe as poss. but how safe is that :-/ GOOD LUCK TO ALL. I might come and watch this year...if we have to race it next year..then I will have to.
Wow this track sounds like a giant cluster fu(k. If I wasn't runnig for points I would not race there. Clutch and ahastings couldn't of said it better. Well guess i gotta bite the bullet ( or wall ) and take one for the team.
If the track is that messed up, why is anyone even considering racing it? Are points, trophies worth it? Seems to me, if folks don't race it (especially the pts leaders), we probably won't have to race it ever 'cause there'd be no money in it for the orgs.
Are there no "Kenny Roberts Sr's" among us?! :)
I dont think you can talk pts leaders out of racing...No one wants to get hurt..But if your #2 in pts. And the #3 guy shows up...and you dont :-X What do you think. Everyone says it should be for fun (racing) but when it comes down to it...its a race!
Since CCS wants opinions why don't they have someone test the track whose opinion they would respect. Like Mat Mladin. If Mat gives it the OK then we can race on it.
Normally at the riders meetings we get the speech from Bill about how we shouldn't push it, we all have to go to work on Monday... What speech will he give at this track. It's okay to push it at this track that we know is dangerous since your going for points.
Why would anyone ride a dangerous track like this for contingency $? Let alone points.
If the riders don't make a stand then we'll get pushed around and told what we can and can't do for the rest of our riding years.
Larry
arnie, this is jon (#96) i appreciate you posting up your thoughts on this place. i wont even entertain running on that go kart track.
hopefully CCS wont schedule any events there next season.. it would be nice to see more summit main events for sure..
QuoteI dont think you can talk pts leaders out of racing...No one wants to get hurt..But if your #2 in pts. And the #3 guy shows up...and you dont :-X What do you think. Everyone says it should be for fun (racing) but when it comes down to it...its a race!
All I'm saying is the track is either safe to race or it isn't. So, if it's as bad as folks are saying, no amount of points, contingency, or championships should be worth the high risk. It it's not that bad, then everyone should be racing it without any more concern than other tracks we race at. Also, it seems silly for people to say they "have" to race. Nobody has to race - everyone has a choice. I guess I just wish everyone would have the courage to stand up for the safety of the sport (if they truly believe it's a concern) even if it costs them points, etc.
I also agree...but getting everyone together is hard. Everyone will say that they wont run...but I dont think its the truth.
OK, I will post loud and clear. I AM NOT GOING TO RACE THIS TRACK!
I was at the Pomona 1994 AMA National Road Race event. We boycotted it for most of the weekend. A whole bridge had to be moved.
Joliet, Il...another AMA national. Stopped.
Seems obvious that the test is being made available. Certainly better than some tests that are exclusive to some individuals...then you get there and wonder what those people were thinking.
Getting more dates at any race track is harder now. More and more track day programs for bikes and cars, and only so many weekends. Extra dates might be unavailable because organizations are scheduling waaaay in advance, or are even willing to pay an extra premium to get the cool dates.
Quote...
Seems obvious that the test is being made available. Certainly better than some tests that are exclusive to some individuals...then you get there and wonder what those people were thinking.
Getting more dates at any race track is harder now. More and more track day programs for bikes and cars, and only so many weekends. Extra dates might be unavailable because organizations are scheduling waaaay in advance, or are even willing to pay an extra premium to get the cool dates.
Yes CCS is having a test ,but it doesn't seem to be a test of whether or not to run the track, it is to see where to put all the foam bales in front of the many CONCRETE walls and how close to put the start line to turn one so we don't have too much speed going in since it is lined with a wall 25' from the track at its closest point. I was there. They are pushing to make this thing happen. As an example, we went out and tested last week and every single person thought the track was unsafe and we told Kevin that, especially one of the new chicanes, then the next day Tiffeney comes on this board and says "FYI--The guys who went out and rode today LOVED the track and its new changes. The two chicanes are in now, so everything looks good." an outright lie.
I have raced at unsafe tracks too, I raced at Rockingham and Pocono in the late 80s, but with the speed and power of modern sportbikes this place is not good.
QuoteAll I'm saying is the track is either safe to race or it isn't.
No track is either "safe" or "not safe". They are all somewher inbetween. I would rank IOM towards the "not safe" side, but people still race there. Laguna Seca is the only track in the US with FIM approval for MotoGP, implying that it is the "safest" of all the major tracks in the US, but riders still complained.
It sounds like Shenandohah is on the "not safe" side. If a race is scheduled there, some people will race, some won't. Some will but won't come back. Some will pay good money to do one lap in each of their races for points. In any case CCS will make a decision based on what the racers want, and that communication will be made by rider turnout. If no one shows up each time there is a race there, sooner or later CCS will see they are losing money and stop scheduling the track.
-z.
Zac - I agree. Good post.