Will air fence be put up for the upcoming CCS weekend? It was up for the FUSA weekend and i'm hoping the regional racers get the same treatment.
??
I have to decide where i'm racing that weekend and Summit is off the list if air fence isnt up.
Track is supposed to be purchasing some unsure of delivery timetable.
QuoteTrack is supposed to be purchasing some unsure of delivery timetable.
Air fence is available right now. All CCS needs to do is contact Team Promotion and request it. The air fence is at Summit ready to be used by any race org.
Team Promotion contact - Linda - 215-675-6677
wow. pick up the damn phone. call tpm and get the airfence there. not specifically you eric. but the orginization in general. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
im scheduled to race there as well this weekend. i know id really like to see airfence there as well. especially t4. losing the front there railing in 4th gear would not be fun!
I know ccs employees arent on this board every day.....but i know that at least one has seen this post. and please dont tell us to call the office. i tried at least 5 times to speak to someone to confirm a cancellation......i still dont know if i was cancelled....and this was for vir. ???
the whole thing with airfence is that everyone wants it but no one wants to come early to set it up and/or stay late to break it down and put it away.
Not to mention the fact there has to be an entire crew of people to maintain the fence over the course of the weekend.
If you all want it so bad contact Kevin and tell him you have 10, 15, 20 or however many people that have COMMITTED to being there early to set it up and to tear it down.
It's like some people want it there but they think it's someone elses responsibility to take care of it.
quite frustrating.
??? ??? ???
willing to bet that anyone who is asked would be more than willing to give them a hand. i know i would. no question in my mind. ive offered my help at the last summit race.
asking at the event is too late. the fence has to be set up the day before.
maybe tearing down the fence might be different and then an announcement could be made.
just making the point that this is not something that can be done at the last minute.
it wasnt done last minute. help was offered by many many people here on the board prior to the last summit event. the help is there. as it always is.
and i know for a fact that the airfence helped out MANY riders last summit weekend.
eric if you even go....if you want help i will be coming in late thursday night. and will be avail friday as well
I am paying CCS $335 in entry fees plus whatever it cost to practice on Fri and $30 or so gate fee each, I think they can afford to pay someone to put up the airfence.
I also would like to see the air fence put up, but I have seen first hand how everyone wants it up, but doesn't want to help.
Art asked over the PA for like two hours to get people to help put up the air fence last year. you know how many racers showed up..... three. All the rest were corner workers. Your telling me that all the racers had something else to do at 5:30pm on a friday night.... I doubt it. I was completely shocked when I saw that no one else would help.
I am willing to put up and take down the fence, but I would like to actually see more than two other racers actually show up an help.
don't get me wrong. I want to see the riders be safe and feel secure in racing.
I just wanted to point out that it just seems to be human nature that in our perfect world everyone commits to helping but when it comes time to call on this people there's always one story or another why they can't or don't want to help...
If things are important to people they'll show up and not expect anything in return.
More times than not they just assume someone else is taking care of it
I keep seeing racing orgs saying "no one will help set it up and take it down".
My question is ... why is this the customer's job?
I read a post on the WERA BBS about this where one of the replies was "You don't help stock the shelves at Walmart before you buy something", and I tend to agree.
The race orgs are businesses, we are their customers. The customer shouldn't have to pay, then also work for the business. If $$ is the issue and the current budget doesn't have the funds ... charge each racer an extra $5 at registration for events with air fence, tell them that the $5 is to pay the air fence crew for the weekend, and get the stuff in place. Just IMHO as I'd happily pay an extra $5 for air fence to be in place.
- Roach
Quoteasking at the event is too late. the fence has to be set up the day before.
maybe tearing down the fence might be different and then an announcement could be made.
just making the point that this is not something that can be done at the last minute.
Quotethe whole thing with airfence is that everyone wants it but no one wants to come early to set it up and/or stay late to break it down and put it away.
Not to mention the fact there has to be an entire crew of people to maintain the fence over the course of the weekend.
If you all want it so bad contact Kevin and tell him you have 10, 15, 20 or however many people that have COMMITTED to being there early to set it up and to tear it down.
It's like some people want it there but they think it's someone elses responsibility to take care of it.
quite frustrating.
??? ??? ???
Wow. For everyones information I have personally torn down the air bags before After a track event at Summit with TPM with 2 (thats two) other fellows. Having more than 3 people is not necessarry I dont even know if 20 people would fit over there on turn 4 let alone what they would all do. And although I have never set them up I have seen the crew go out, and they too have about 3-4 guys, and do this the morning of the track day. all in all it takes about 30 minutes or so. Its really not all that hard to set up/take down air bags. And yes TPM's airbags are sitting at summit 24/7 waiting to be used.
I for one will be PISSED if there is no air fence considering there is air fence as i_ride stated, sitting in a god damn storage shed AT SUMMIT POINT. and i like that walmart comment and its exactly how i feel. I dont ask my customers to come in and enter thier own order in my system, or make their own parts. CCS is a organization which should do everything in their power to keep their customers safe. Having airfence there....but not wanting to make a single phone call to use it.....is rediculous.
I have personally set up the airfence at various TPM events. It take a total of 2 people not an enitre "crew" to set the airfence up. takes about 15-20 give or take minutes per bag to blow up with the blower. If you have two blowers it can go faster as one person can blow up one bag and another starts on the other.
QuoteI for one will be PISSED if there is no air fence considering there is air fence as i_ride stated, sitting in a god damn storage shed AT SUMMIT POINT. and i like that walmart comment and its exactly how i feel. I dont ask my customers to come in and enter thier own order in my system, or make their own parts. CCS is a organization which should do everything in their power to keep their customers safe. Having airfence there....but not wanting to make a single phone call to use it.....is rediculous.
When you come to the race track you know what you're doing. You know it's a dangerous sport. You know that people get hurt. You know that sometimes people get really hurt despite the safety equipment, the corner workers, the ambulance crews and everyone else.
When you sign the dotted line you are stating that you understand the inherant risks and you basically sign your rights away.
You want the safety fence but want someone else to take care of it. What if the corner workers felt that way and said "eh...someone else will go pick up that downed rider".
don't say it's not your job to help. Be part of the solution not part of the problem.
Quotedon't say it's not your job to help. Be part of the solution not part of the problem.
Doesn't track prep include setting up airfence? Isn't that part of what we pay for?
you know i just rememberd tpm has a track day on the 4th so ccs wont even have to take the airbags down just set them up :)
Looks like they didn't even put it up at all even knowing the facts about the TPM day...
That place is scary without AirFence...
Well had a blast racing last weekend. All the CCS officials seemed very nice, helpful and knowledgable. Thank you for putting on a great race weekend. I Dont have any complaints about how the day was run EXCEPT for the lack of the air bags. Are these people responding for CCS on here the same guys at the track?? because I couldnt tell by the arrogant, and almost idiotic responses. Its really sad that someone makes the decsion not to use the airbags for whatever reasons they might have if any.
http://www.teampromotion.com/tpm.php?page_id=feature_070705
sorry to bring this thread back from the dead....but reading this story reminded me...and pissed me off all over again
this is a huge problem. and dont start with the crap about us not helping again. we are here to race....not put up airfence. we pay REDICULOUS amounts of money to race.....not to put up airfence. We drive down to the track early to relax and make sure everything is good to go with our machines and ourselves...not to put up airfence. CCS as the orginization is responsible for putting up airfence. We dont go out there to dry the track do we? or clean up oil? no.....the people who are GETTING paid do it.... not the people PAYING to race.... Team Promotions air fence is there for CCS' use FREE OF CHARGE!!! why dont they want to use it? who the hell knows. but when someone hits one of those walls and is killed....maybe someone will listen. and that is not being over dramatic....it is being real. >:(
btw...with that being said....as i said earlier...we are ALWAYS willing to help put it up if need be. i beleive i speak for everyone.
Racers should not have to pay to have the air fence especially if a club (TPM) is offering it for FREE!!!!!! If you didn't get this the fist time let me type it again It's FREE!!!!!
I was at summit for July 2nd and 3rd and NO FENCE!!! During the riders meeting on Sun they didn't have an answer for the Shenandoah safety problem after a lot of ppl said they would not ride it because it wasn't safe.
I have no idea why they would not put up the FREE air fence. Are they just lazy? They don't want to pay 2-3 ppl an hour to put up the fence. It's obvious, CCS does not care about safety....(looks like a duck, sounds like a duck.... bla blab la)
Quotethis is a huge problem. and dont start with the crap about us not helping again. we are here to race....not put up airfence. we pay REDICULOUS amounts of money to race.....not to put up airfence. We drive down to the track early to relax and make sure everything is good to go with our machines and ourselves...not to put up airfence. CCS as the orginization is responsible for putting up airfence. We dont go out there to dry the track do we? or clean up oil? no.....the people who are GETTING paid do it.... not the people PAYING to race.... Team Promotions air fence is there for CCS' use FREE OF CHARGE!!! why dont they want to use it? who the hell knows. but when someone hits one of those walls and is killed....maybe someone will listen. and that is not being over dramatic....it is being real. >:(
btw...with that being said....as i said earlier...we are ALWAYS willing to help put it up if need be. i beleive i speak for everyone.
Just for the record the people you think are being paid to clean up the oil are volunteers. MARRC does not pay it's corner workers.
MARRC is an all volunteer organization.
QuoteJust for the record the people you think are being paid to clean up the oil are volunteers. MARRC does not pay it's corner workers.
MARRC is an all volunteer organization.
Could MARRC cornerworkers then setup airfence?
QuoteCould MARRC cornerworkers then setup airfence?
We are volunteers. We get to the track at 6:45am- before most of you guys are even UP. Some of the guys have to get up even EARLIER to get equipment out to the turns.
We are at our turns 15-20 mins before practice starts...we then stand in the sun/rain/heat/cold/ whatever the
entire day- with a 45 min lunch break. We pick up crashed motorcycles from the dirt, gravel, tire walls..We clean up oil spills, debris, and riders from the track....we are there until the last motorcycle rolls into the pits.
If there are delays due to too many 'red' flags, a chopper, oil clean up sometimes we are there until after 6pm...when we have been on our feet since 7am
Honestly I am way too tired to then tear down an airfence.
QuoteCould MARRC cornerworkers then setup airfence?
Look. Here's the bottom line. When you come to race you sign a little piece of paper that says you understand the inhearent risks that come with racing. Yes we know how much you "pay to play" and that goes along with any venture.
There will NEVER be a 100% safe track. There will NEVER be a track totally void of danger.
Again I go back to what I said before. If you, the racer, wants air fence so bad get a group of people together that will do nothing but airfence. setup, refilling when they deflate, and tear down.
If you're going to sit there and bitch that you pay too much money, don't have time, not your problem or any OTHER excuse then save it for someone else.
If you're going to bitch about it not being there and not offer up help to resolve the problem then all you're doing is whinning and I don't have time for whiners at the track.
This always happens...people bitch about there not being air fence but when it comes time for people to STEP UP no one wants to help.
And don't make the statement "what does it take? someone dying?". That crap doesn't sit well with me either.
What if the corner workers said "oh let someone else go pick that downed rider up" or "oh it's not safe enough to run out to the middle of the carosel to help that rider".
QuoteLook. Here's the bottom line. When you come to race you sign a little piece of paper that says you understand the inhearent risks that come with racing. Yes we know how much you "pay to play" and that goes along with any venture.
There will NEVER be a 100% safe track. There will NEVER be a track totally void of danger.
Again I go back to what I said before. If you, the racer, wants air fence so bad get a group of people together that will do nothing but airfence. setup, refilling when they deflate, and tear down.
If you're going to sit there and bitch that you pay too much money, don't have time, not your problem or any OTHER excuse then save it for someone else.
If you're going to bitch about it not being there and not offer up help to resolve the problem then all you're doing is whinning and I don't have time for whiners at the track.
This always happens...people bitch about there not being air fence but when it comes time for people to STEP UP no one wants to help.
And don't make the statement "what does it take? someone dying?". That crap doesn't sit well with me either.
What if the corner workers said "oh let someone else go pick that downed rider up" or "oh it's not safe enough to run out to the middle of the carosel to help that rider".
wow you sound like a d i c k notch for sure.. I wasent complaining at all I was simply asking if MARRC would mind setting up airfence thats all.I mean you guys preach safty all the time so I would assume airfence would be someting they would jump at. And no I dont b i t c h about paying too much and yes I have set up airfence plenty of times. Why do I do it? Becasue I am a part of the staff that sets it up with TPM. WHy would I not do it at a race day?? Becasue I am NOT a part of CCS's staff, and neither is MARRC... Fact is CCS dosent put them up because they dont want to have to pay for the repairs (if any are needed) to the airbags if they are dammaged.
Trust me I know about volunteering. Instead of going out with my friends after work yesterday i fought a fire in an apartment building. And i did not get paid...but guess what.....we did it to get people out of harms way and to keep them safe. I am not saying it is a conerworkers job to put up the airfence, and as you know EVERYONE appreciates you guys! Without you guys we couldnt be out there. But what is it about this crappy attitude? if its not your problem then point us out to whose problem it is. Because it sure is not the racers responsibility during a race weekend. Theres way too much going on for us anyway. Yea we sign a waiver. We understand the risks. But far be it from me to sit and watch the risk be elevated due to SOMEONE (not cornerworkers) not willing to even use the airfence. Its def not about ccs not getting help because at summit correct me if I am wrong but I did not hear one annoucement made to ask for help....the god damn effort wasnt even there. As said im a VOLUNTEER firefighter/EMT....i give TONS AND TONS of time to my community......to MINIMIZE RISK.......and i do not expect anything back.....nothing....
With such a high risk sport...you would guess that CCS would try to minimize the risk for us.....instead of saying oh....they signed a waiver.....they cant sue so we dont have to take any extra measures to protect them. OR we dont want to be responsible for breaking airfence thats not ours because then they'd have to pay for it. whatever the case may be.....i find it sad. but thanks to team promotion for being such a great organization looking to minimize the risk for everyone..... ;)
and btw.....yesterday i did not ask the homeowner to back me up on the 2 1/2 inch handline or assist in overhaul. so in relation DO NOT keep hinting that it is our responsibility.
My frustration stems from everyone complaining that it doesn't get done.
And I was a volunteer in Loudoun County for 10 years before moving to the eastern panhandle. So I can appreciate not asking the homeowner for help on the 2 1/2 inch line..smirk.
Just gets a little old after a while listening to "A" bash "B" and then someone throws some misinformation in and then someone gets offended and feelings get hurt.
as does mine. nothing is aimed at the cornerworkers...at least from my point of view. if it comes off that way i apologize. but the fact that ccs CHOOSES not to use air fence to protect its racers.....well.....says a lot about the organization. clearly.
Why isn't CCS saying anything? Why isn't CCS taking some action to get the airfence going?
They really don't want to for repairs if someone hit it?? Here is a quote about Shenandoah from CCS on another post " There is no track that is perfectly safe. We are working with Bill Scott to make this track usable, and as some of you have said, it is up to you whether you ride there or not, and I will respect that decision because ultimately you must accept the risk."
So i guess we should just suck it up, safe/not safe, airfence/no airfence... it's your butt not CCS's. They have a waiver to protect themselves... we have a tire wall....
MARRC cares about safety not CCS. If their main concern is paying for repairs to the airfence then we are in big trouble
They supply air fence for the fusa events, so what are ccs regoinal races chop liver. The tire walls at summit will do nothing but put you into the hospital.
And this, folks, is why I'm avoiding the Mid-Atlantic CCS region and sticking with LRRS.
We have AirFence setup by track staff on a regular basis at no cost to us, and the track even goes ahead and buys more annually.
They also pay our corner workers, feed em, and give em free entry to the track.
Then again, LRRS doesn't have a 95% chance of changing its schedule from overcrowding its program, doesn't put SS and non SS races back to back and doesn't advance practice by 30 minutes in the morning without notice. ::)
Not that CCS doesn't screw up here and there, but hings are probably easier to organize when you run a whole championship in the same fishbowl.
QuoteNot that CCS doesn't screw up here and there, but hings are probably easier to organize when you run a whole championship in the same fishbowl.
There have been the same people at every Mid-Atlantic race, they've done this for years, and have been doing this long enough to know better.
LRRS is a one track series now, but they used to have several more before they closed down.
Having multiple tracks is not an excuse for them to:
--ignore safety issues
--modify schedules without notice
--shorten races
--eliminate sessions
QuoteAnd this, folks, is why I'm avoiding the Mid-Atlantic CCS region and sticking with LRRS.
We have AirFence setup by track staff on a regular basis at no cost to us, and the track even goes ahead and buys more annually.
They also pay our corner workers, feed em, and give em free entry to the track.
::)
When I rode up at Loudon they did have extensive airfence use and excellent cornerworking, but I have to admit it is an inherently dangerous track even with these things. Wouldn't you agree?? Hell, it should be one of my favorites since I won the TC GTU and got a third overall in the TC... but I won't go back unless I'm getting paid alot to do so :D Not that it would happen ;)
I just don't think it's any safer than any of the mid-atlantic tracks... my .02 :)
QuoteI just don't think it's any safer than any of the mid-atlantic tracks... my .02 :)
You .02 wouldn't hold water when compared with the injury reports, ambulance transports, and chopper riders.
Loudon is a much safer track. Sure, there are walls there, but the odds of hitting an unprotected one are slim to nill. Any protected wall that you could hit is also like to be in a slow speed corner and at a glancing angle.
Quoteand doesn't advance practice by 30 minutes in the morning without notice. ::)
Are you referring to VIR?
QuoteYou .02 wouldn't hold water when compared with the injury reports, ambulance transports, and chopper riders.
Loudon is a much safer track. Sure, there are walls there, but the odds of hitting an unprotected one are slim to nill. Any protected wall that you could hit is also like to be in a slow speed corner and at a glancing angle.
Fair enough... we all have our own opinions. Have fun up there!
QuoteLRRS is a one track series now, but they used to have several more before they closed down.
When? The last non-Loudon LRRS race I know of was Pocono, in 1999. And by the way, it was the worst clusterf*ck I've ever seen. Have they run other tracks since?
QuoteAre you referring to VIR?
yup
QuoteWhen? The last non-Loudon LRRS race I know of was Pocono, in 1999. And by the way, it was the worst clusterf*ck I've ever seen. Have they run other tracks since?
They used to run Bridgehampton as well. In 2000 they did a track in Canada once.
Quoteyup
He announced it on Saturday before the last race and several times after that they were moving practice up 1/2 hour.
Thx for gettin' my back, R1owner.
QuoteThx for gettin' my back, R1owner.
I'm not blaming you Griff. I'm sure at VIR it sure wasn't your idea to run the UNSS race right after the GTO event. Sure, 10 mintues in between to swap tires and rims and get em up to temp. Riiiiight. ::)
QuoteThx for gettin' my back, R1owner.
Heh, I wasn't sure you were the dude announcing. I think you did a good job BTW.
TY for the kind words.
I meant 'getting my back' that we did in fact announce the change several times.
I know some PA's aren't the best and I know that in some spots, the PA can't be heard. It's even worse when there's no low wattage FM.
In any situation when plans change, the only thing you can do is the best we can do. Glad to see that was the case.
Catch you at the track.