I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times, but when did you guys/girls start racing? I'm referring to skill level, really. Most people I talk to say that as long as you can go out there and be predictable, you're ok even if you're on the slower side. I was thinking about going down to Summit next weekend and doing the MARRC class on Friday and racing that weekend.
Am I slow? Yes, for the most part. I've done probably 8-10 track days and ride in the intermediate group with both TPM and Nesba. I was at Summit at the end of last season on a rainy weekend. I rode Main for maybe 2 sessions, only one of which when the race line was dry. Being my first time there, I didn't have a chance to get up to speed and sorta remember doing something like a 1:38. With a full day I'm sure I'd be a lot quicker than that, but I fully expect to be the slow guy out there.
This past weekend I was planning to do one day on JC and one on Main, but broke the bike after one session on JC and couldn't ride main the next day. There was a WERA event going on there so I went to check it out. Those novices looked pretty fast.
The only other tracks I've been on are Pocono East (best 1:18) and 2 days on Beaverun, where I did a 1:10. Don't laugh. What do you think?
BTW I'd be running the LW classes.
Dont worry about if you think you arent fast enough yet. If you want to race, just do it. Have fun. You'll only get faster with experience. Some people take to it right away, some takes a bit longer. Some people go all out and race like its life or death for a $5 plaque and some are just out having a good time and really arent concerned with points, contingency money or wood.
The only thing I really am concerned about beating on the track, other than finishing ahead of KBOlsen and buell_391 ;D ;D, is bettering my best lap times at the track.
Big difference you'll have racing from trackdays is you WILL get passed at any place on teh track and ALOT closer at times than you get during trackdays. Sometimes rubbing paint happens.
Seriously, just race. If you like - no matter where you're gidded on the sheet - start in the back. Track time is what you need. Keep a consistent line. Don't change it if you know someone is coming up behind you. They have been watching you and assume you'll keep doing the same thing. If you're really concerned, leave room for a bike inside when you apex the corner & outside when you set-up the corner, until you get comfortable.
To get faster, work on braking later and getting out of the corners (on the gas) faster.
Start as soon as you can. I didn't get my license until I was 62 YO. I'm damn glad I didn't wait any longer, and yes I'm one of the slowest guys out there but I am consistent and getting faster slowly.
With your level of experience, you'll know MUCH more all ready than some beginners do. Go for it. I envy you. It's best at the beginning, when every sensation is fresh. Have fun!
Yeah I agree with everyone else, HAVE FUN! Thats what its all about. I did track days for 3 years and went to race school with penguin getting great instruction from the woods brothers before I started to race. I did everything that your doing, I ran with TPM and I'm still an active member with Reduc. I usually run the same times you are at pocono east (1:17/18 ) My lap times at summit when I started out were in the upper 1:20's ( 1:28/29) This year I'm down to low 24's upper 23's. Don't worry give it time everything will come together for you. I learn something new and get faster everytime I get on that bike and race.
QuoteIf you're really concerned, leave room for a bike inside when you apex the corner & outside when you set-up the corner, until you get comfortable.
It's the passing rider's responsibility to make a clean pass. And the faster guys will find a way around you. Personally, I prefer to see lappers on the racing line vs. somewhere else where you don't know where they're going or what they'll do next.
Go race. And have fun!
thanks for all the replies. i think i'll give it a go. just don't laugh at the guy that's in the back. i'll see you guys at summit july 4th weekend.
I agree you should go for it. Those lap times won't win races, but I can almost guarantee you won't finish last either. I was scared to jump in and didn't go racing until I was doing 1:12/13s at Pocono East (big bikes, not LW). I couldn't have been more wrong. There are all kinds of people out there. Very few people are so slow that they have nobody to battle with in a race.
QuoteThose lap times won't win races, but I can almost guarantee you won't finish last either.
finishing the race would be great. not finishing last would be a bonus. i'm really looking forward to this now. thanks for all the positive feedback.
Speed comes with experience.
I suggest you start racing shortly after the 1 board goes sideways. ;D
Everyone has it wrong. Don't go racing, it's dangerous. Just stand on the sidelines wishing you were out there. That's what life is all about. Why try when you might fail?
Is my reverse psychology working? ;) I thought so.
Yeah, you need to go racing. I did it, I had fun, was dirt slow and didn't even finish last. ;D Of course, you will fall into the racing vortex where all of your time and money is spent on one obsessive hobby, but hey, it could be bingo, and really, how much fun is that? :o ;) ;D
QuoteSpeed comes with experience.
If that were true, then only experienced racers would be fast.
Speed comes from bike set up, rider confidence, and certain things that certain riders have and most don't. But because a rider doesn't have those certain things, they don't have to be slow.
Experience is the long way around. It's expensive and takes a lot of time.
You can short cut it.
I started riding motorcycles in August of 1986. Fell down in October so I couldn't ride my bike. Started racing in April of 1987 with no racing experience at all.
QuoteIf that were true, then only experienced racers would be fast.
Over the long run, I would absolutely agree with that. It takes a certain amount of racing experience to be fast. Period.
Sure, a person can jump on a bike and be VERY fast, but they're not likely to stay upright for very long. Experience, knowledge, time, training all fixes that. The latter 3 pieces of the last sentence all add UP to experience.
QuoteSpeed comes from bike set up, rider confidence, and certain things that certain riders have and most don't. But because a rider doesn't have those certain things, they don't have to be slow.
So let me get this straight. If I don't have these 'certain things' (which I'll assume to be lightning fast reflexes, supreme confidence, just plain God-given talent), I can still jump in just as fast as someone who does?
Oh do tell how...
QuoteExperience is the long way around. It's expensive and takes a lot of time.
You can short cut it.
You can't shortcut experience. Experience is the collective knowledge and application of it. It takes time and money.
QuoteI started riding motorcycles in August of 1986. Fell down in October so I couldn't ride my bike. Started racing in April of 1987 with no racing experience at all.
And what are you saying here? I just suggested he start racing and learn from it. Seems quite a bit like what you did.
and I'm not trying to pick a fight here, just don't necessarily understand everything you said.
QuoteOf course, you will fall into the racing vortex where all of your time and money is spent on one obsessive hobby
I think it may already be too late.
QuoteI think it may already be too late.
;D
QuoteSpeed comes with experience.
I suggest you start racing shortly after the 1 board goes sideways. ;D
Where were you to give me that advice at the BHF F40 race on Memorial day?! ;D
BTW, I agree, give it a go! You won't regret racing! Why wait till July 4th. Racing at VIR this weekend!
Start Friday
QuoteWhy wait till July 4th. Racing at VIR this weekend!
I would, but 1) taking the GF away for her birthday this weekend (how else do you think I'm getting away for the long weekend to go racing?)and 2) broke the bike at Summit last weekend. Broke a side cover bolt and cracked the case trying to get it out. Got it welded, drilled and tapped but waiting for a bolt before I put oil in it and start it up. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Don't be worried about being a tad off pace...if those guys are that darn fast they'll get around you just fine. Just hold a line and do your own thing. Guys like 4&6, and Suspension Solutions can help you get dialed in to go faster when you get to that point.
QuoteWhere were you to give me that advice at the BHF F40 race on Memorial day?! ;D
QuoteSorry sleepy! I thought you already knew... ;D ;D
QuoteOver the long run, I would absolutely agree with that. It takes a certain amount of racing experience to be fast. Period.
You said something yourself....training.
Some can be trained to be fast. Others don't get the training they need. I see things all the time.
I have worked with riders that have never been on the track at my school. And they have been fast immediately. No experience.
QuoteSure, a person can jump on a bike and be VERY fast, but they're not likely to stay upright for very long. Experience, knowledge, time, training all fixes that. The latter 3 pieces of the last sentence all add UP to experience.
Wait, now your qualifying fast...LOL!
Riders fast and slow fall down. The faster ones might do it at a faster speed. May be more spectatular, and more riders are apt to watch and talk about the "fast guys". Think of it at perception.
I've seen lots of slow guys fall down trying to do things. Haven't you?
QuoteSo let me get this straight. If I don't have these 'certain things' (which I'll assume to be lightning fast reflexes, supreme confidence, just plain God-given talent), I can still jump in just as fast as someone who does?
Oh do tell how...QuoteReflexes and somethings are genetic. You can't be Mat Mladin or Rossi. We could take that as a given.
I don't have their reflexes, etc. I don't even have depth perception. I've been around long enough to recognize those who have the reflexes that I don't have.
Experience taught me a decent amount, and it cost me a lot of money, yes. But it was working with certain people that I actually learned things that I needed to know. I didn't need to "go out and experience" things...there were short cuts all along.
Most individual experiences seem to be doing the same things over and over, trying to refine a short duration of experiences. If the experience isn't the right one...well, what are you learning?
QuoteAnd what are you saying here? I just suggested he start racing and learn from it. Seems quite a bit like what you did.
and I'm not trying to pick a fight here, just don't necessarily understand everything you said.
the collective learning of doing "track days" is not necessarily a great leaning tool. You're on the track, but what are you doing?
Track days are that...track days. The "abuse" that one gets from racing is far different.
The current climate of track days and racing has really changed American club motorcycle road racing. It's not like it was. Not for the good. How many Austrailian's do we have in the AMA paddock?
What am I trying to say?
Go race.
Dave, I think overall we're on the same page. I do agree wholeheartedly that shortcuts are available in the form of professional training. Outside of that, people tend to spend a lot of time making and perfecting the same ole mistakes.
For example, running BHF for a Keith Code school, I was running probably 18's or 19's (not really trying to go fast) and was getting pulled off for riding too hard. I was not riding hard at all. It was simply the fact that I can run the track in my sleep, and can ride fairly proficiently through the mistakes I had been making.
Why make the mistakes though?
Quotefinishing the race would be great. not finishing last would be a bonus.
That one made me smile to myself - reminded me of my first weekend racing. It was a twinsprint at Road America, and I had those exact same sentiments: don't crash/finish the race; and try not to be last.
It was a GTlights race (SV650). No one was more surprised than me when I went to look at the results board and found my name in 4th place! There were so many bikes, and so much confusion (to me) out there, I really had no idea where I was in the pack.
Raced 10 more races that weekend, and brought home wood in all of them. Who knew?? Certainly not me, I can tell you that for sure.
Go for it, and have fun. As SuperDave has said (and he told me this, too), HAVE FUN. If you're not having fun, why are you out there? Wise words, those.
i want to thank all of you for talking me into going racing this past weekend. friday practice was rough, with mechanical problems and a crash in turn 1 on my first session. i forgot to tighten my water pump drain bolt, which of course popped out and filled my lower with water, then going into 1, well, you can guess what happened.
with help from a few people, including the guys at fast lane, some parts i had, and $40 worth of other parts, i'm back on the track. still having some issues, but at least i got to know the track a little bit.
saturday kent larson helped me out a ton. get the bike running well and am able to race on sunday. despite one close call when an expert clipped my right puck in practice going into 9, it went well.
entered my first race, lwss. got a good start and just rode my race. imagine my surprise when i check the board after the race and i'm in fifth. got wood my first time out. couldn't get the grin off my face.
my second and last race was lwsb. didn't get as good a start and got stuck behind a slower rider who i couldn't get around. i'm so used to track day passing rules that i guess i need to be more aggressive going forward. finally got him coming out of 9 but by then it's too late to try to catch anybody else. ended up 9th.
despite the crash, i couldn't be happier with the way things went. i want to thank rick, kevin, rachel and the rest of the team from fast lane, kent larson, and all of you for talking me into it. can't wait to get back out there. track days will never be the same again.
sherry morgan finished just in front of me in the lwss race. i hope she heals up quickly and gets back out there. she was riding great in race 1.
Excellent, excellent. Thanks for the update. (It sounded very familiar -- I only started this year, too. I wish I'd started sooner!)